Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree with that.

 

The show did seem rushed...but since it came before all the 2 part finales that would follow...it didn't at the time.

[Guest Ripper]

Does anyone know when The new shows are starting again.  

 

I know that I get Angel again next Tuesday(finally and post your thoughts here if you would)  but Buffy will STILL be reruns.

[Guest Ripper]

Weeeellll.  The show is continuing its run of very good shows(If you chose to ignore the one with Riley, which I do).

 

Last nights show was interesting to say the least. It had its funny parts(Anya trying to get people to curse Xander) and at the end, you just had to feel sorry for Xander.  I still wish that Spike had wished that the chip was out of his head, though(thats what I thought was going to happen)  I am really getting sick of everyone beating the crap out of him cause they know he can't hit them back. The show looks like it is going out with a bang.  How'd everybody else like the show.

[Guest Risk]

Being a HUGE Buffy mark(I have watched since the original pilot episode)I would like to say something.

 

Vampires CAN'T breathe but they CAN simulate breathing to smoke.  This was explained by Whedon.  Also, I only think seasons 1-3 were good.  About the Master's defeat: It was expected to go longer and the Master was expected to beat the crap out of Buffy, but the twist was HE underestimated her.  HE was overconfident.  Joss' original idea for Buffy was to make the cute blonde girl getting attacked in the alley in lots of horror movies, the one who had the edge.

 

I liked Prophecy Girl, it wasn't needlessly complcated like other episodes.  Plus, I loved Spike taking out the Anoited One so easily in season two.

[Guest Risk]

Wouldn't it be great if Riley, Adam and the Inititive were NEVER on the show?  Personality, I think Whedon should have made season four the last season, but he should have made it without "a big bad", showing Buffy defeating minor demons and vamps.

[Guest Risk]

Bump.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Well, on SPACE (canadian sci fi chnl) they are currently running that season of Buffy.  I missed a damn good amount of it (damn hockey on tuesday nights!), but it did accomplish somethings.

 

Good Spike

Lesbian Willow and lovekittten tara

Anya and Xander

The separation of Buffy and Giles

 

What was est. there became an integral part of what made last season one of the best ones.

[Guest]

Risk if you only liked the first three seasons......why do still watching? It is boring to watch a sohw you hate.

[Guest Risk]

I DON'T hate it.  Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it should change.  Why do we still watch wrestling when it gets bad?  Because we are marks for it.  We are always entertained SOMEWHAT by it.  

 

I've watched Buffy since it first came on, and I'm going to watch it until it goes off the air.  I am a proud Buffy mark.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

If he had stopped watching when it started to suck, then he wouldn't have seen the last season (which suitibly rocked).  It is stupid to be clinging to a show that shows no signs of gettng better/can't get better under the current circumstance, but if there is good reason (which there was in buffy, the first 3 seasons or so rocked) then I can't see why you would leave.

 

The same goes for the Wwf.  We all know they could do A LOT better than they are doing right now, we are just waiting for that time to come.  It will come.  It HAS to come.

[Guest Ripper]

I'm glad someone else noticed that Season 5 quietly kicked ass.  I'm telling you, you want to get someone hooked on the show??? Start at the Body and go through the season 5 finale and you will have them.  100% of the time.

[Guest Risk]

Although I thought everyone did a good job acting on the "Mom death" episode, I didn't like the concept.

[Guest Ripper]

Well....Last nights show....that was something....

 

First, the Willow Tara relationship was just soooo sweet(as was Dawn excitement at seeing the back together) so I knew SOMETHING was going down.  I was just enjoying it while it lasted.

 

Buffy and Xander had some issues to work through...and they eventually did.  They gave some great scenes together and I don't think they have had a argument like that since back in the Angel days.

 

Spike and Dawn goodness make Ripper happy.  I think that Michelle T. and James Marsters have great on screen chemistry.  They flexed it alot last year but shyed away from it pretty much since the season premire of this year...until tonight.  They just flow together in the dialoge...I liked it and want more.

 

Buffy and Spike...well...thats over.  The scene looked strange from the begaining...with the lighting and all.  The attempted rape...the way it was shot, was just surreal.  Kudos to the director for this scene.  It seem all to real.  Which also lead too...

 

Spikes finally going to do something about the chip.  I also get the feeling this is about to be a bait and switch deal.  If he tries to find a soul, I'll be pissed.  Spike+Big Bad Next season= my happiness.

 

The trio's rise to ultimate power and fall from it.  Andrews attempted get away was hee-larious.  I did enjoy seeing SUPER WARREN kick some arse, though.  He got to flex some acting mucles.  I was also happy to see Jonathan come through in the end when he saw they were trying to kill Buffy.  He was alot closer to Buffy than the others(saving his life, giving her the award at prom, SUPER JONATHAN and all) and I was expecting it...but still good to see.  

 

The final act.. ~sigh~... Again it was great to see that Xander and Buffy got together and worked things out through a sea of puns and jokes like they always do.  Then there is the biggy.  See, everyone was talking about how much of a non threat the trio were the entire season.  That they just didn't measure up to the previous BIG BADS.  But last night Warren managed to do something that none of the rest of them could do(except Angleus)...kill a major character in their lives.  A scooby was killed, and it wasnt' through majic, or vampire master or big demon snake type guy or God...it was just a regular pissed off guy with a gun.  With that gun, he has done more than any other Big Bad could ever do. (OK in theory Buffy died, but Glory didn't really do it.  And she came back so that doesn't count. ) It was so simple, that it was almost scary.  Not since Darla in season one(uless you count in the 2 Russians in "Slayer Fest '99) has anyone tried to just shoot the Slayer.  It is a simple theory, and brought a type of scary reality to the show.

 

Tara...Poor, poor Tara.  I have to say that I am happy that she and willow didn't do the "final declaration of love".  Her last words will be her reaction to seeing something red hit Willows shirt.  "Your Shirt" was all that she got to say...and after 2 and a half years it was over.  Alot of people didn't like her.  They missed Oz(who wouldn't) and didn't like this replacement relationship.  But in my eyes, I loved her character. She went from the shy, ground staring, studdering pushover to being a strong, independant woman.  She was an important part of the team and all it took was one pissed off guy and a gun.  

 

Then there is Willows reaction.  I'll say this, Willow is going to hurt Warren and bad.  Do we all remember what she tried to do to Glory after she took Taras mind??? Imagine the out come if Glory had been human..

 

OH yeah...Buffy got shot too.  They would kill the Slayer two straight seasons so I'm sure she'll be ok.

 

Happiness+ Characters joy= Death....damn you Joss....the streak continues.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Sigh, I missed the opening of the show which usually sets the pace for the rest of the show...Which screwed me, cause my interest kept fading in and out of the show...But from what I saw...

 

SUPER WARREN RULES!

 

I MISSED! the shootings!  How did it go?  

 

I liked Tara, but was never really a huge Willow fan,  so their relationship has never been a favourite of mine (plus, they are not *hot* lesbians...which sucks, ya know?) Witchy Willow, was just too much corn for my likins.  Hopefully Evil Willow will be better.

 

Andrew's (failed) escape and homosexual dependancy on Warren were GOLD. G-O-L-D.  GIVE THAT MAN HIS OWN SITCOM!  ON FOX!

 

I love the 'Little evil is pushed just to get crushed by bigger evil' gimmick, because it establishes so many things.

 

So, who wants to bet that what stops willow is the spirit of Tara coming round saying 'oh no, you went back to witchcraft how could you?' sort of thing?

 

That rape scene was great....  That doesn't read right...

 

And when Xander met Warren at the bar, he was totally BADASS, but then got his ass kicked.  Still...BADASS.

 

Spike is totally a wildcard here.

[Guest Ripper]

"I MISSED! the shootings!  How did it go?"

 

Well, Buffy was in the backyard checking for more cameras(just in case) when Xander walked up.  They exchanged jokes and proceeded to apologize for stuff they said earlier.  Tara looks out the windo and saw them talking and getting back together.  She and Willow were FINALLY dressed and getting ready to leave.  As Buffy and Xander hug, Xander saw Warren over buffys shoulder.  He starts yelling "You think you can just do that to me and get a way with it?? You think I wouldn't do anything??" He pulls out a gun and starts firing.  Xander and Buffy hit the ground and take cover.  Warren isn't peing very persise with his aiming and ends up firing a shot up as he walks away.  Cut to a shot of Tara. She gets hit with a bullet in her back and it comes through her chest.  Blood sprays all over willow and Tara collapses.  Xander gets back upside outside and lookes over at buffy who is hit in the chest, but still conscience.  They go back to Willow with your standard "come on baby you can make it" speech.  When it is apparent that tara is dead, she looks up.  her Eyes go all black and the center has teh EVIIIILLLL red look to them.

 

"I liked Tara, but was never really a huge Willow fan,  so their relationship has never been a favourite of mine (plus, they are not *hot* lesbians...which sucks, ya know?)"

 

But to me, this is what made the relationship so great.  It wasn't there for some type of ratings jump.  Not one of those"Come look at the two hot girls all over each other"  it was a realistic relationship that just happens to have 2 women.  It was one of the purest relationships the show had.  Wasn't exploitive or anything.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

It was so uncharacteristic from the Willow of high school to become involved with Tara (which I guess is the point, college changes you, but IMO that was too much evolution of a character too soon).  She went from timid heterosexual to dominating lesbian in what, less than a season?  I guess I am a bastard with characters staying true to their characteristics.

 

Right there the relationship was flawed, then we have Tara leaving her shell as well.  Going from silent to singing.  Had you shown that last episode where they had freaky sex and shit to someone who left at season 1, or even season 3 or 4 they wouldn't get it at all.  They would say 'what the fuck'.

 

I agree with you on the 'plain old relationship' rather than the 'ellen' mold of being preachy and shit, but I found their relationship more annoying than endearing...Maybe it had something to do with the Witchcraft...

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I had an exam and I forgot to tape it.

 

I missed the fucking episode.

 

God damn it.

[Guest Ripper]

It was so uncharacteristic from the Willow of high school to become involved with Tara (which I guess is the point, college changes you, but IMO that was too much evolution of a character too soon).  She went from timid heterosexual to dominating lesbian in what, less than a season?  I guess I am a bastard with characters staying true to their characteristics.

 

Right there the relationship was flawed, then we have Tara leaving her shell as well.  Going from silent to singing.  Had you shown that last episode where they had freaky sex and shit to someone who left at season 1, or even season 3 or 4 they wouldn't get it at all.  They would say 'what the fuck'.

 

I agree with you on the 'plain old relationship' rather than the 'ellen' mold of being preachy and shit, but I found their relationship more annoying than endearing...Maybe it had something to do with the Witchcraft...

But lets always remember...in season 3 when the vampire Willow was there, she was obviously gay.  Buffy said to Willow: "Don't worry, the Vampire is never anything like what the person was before they got changed."  Angel replied: "Well actually....."  The seeds were planted RIGHT there.  

 

Willows character went from running little shy girl in season one, to dating a musician and opening up more on the relationship end in season 2, to dabbling in withcraft, and having a backbone(remember her telling off faith?? and her in countless fights with the deamons) in season 3, to a bit of regression in season 4 after Oz left, to getting back in her stride in the relationship with Tara, to being more of a leader in season 5(all the while becomeing a more and more powerful witch) to getting all power trippy after bringing Buffy back from the dead.  It is one of the best character transitions I've seen.  She actually grew up instead of just being a parady of her first season self.  

 

It took tara over a year to get out of her SUPER DUPER shyness.  It wasn't until she felt accepted after the Scoobies took up for her when her family came, did she start to come out the shell.  In other words, when she could TRULY trust them(and knew that she wasn't a demon on the inside ) did she start opening up.  It, too was a slow crawl.  

 

I wouldn'tgo as far as calling a dominating lesbian.  They were both kinda clingy on each other with neither being more dominate.  If anything, Tara was often the voice of reason in the relationship.  

 

On Buffy(and Angel) they always seem to stick with the basic characterations, but they allow the charaters to grow and mature realistically.  If Willow tried to make it in the real world being like she was in season 1, she would be eaten alive. As for Xander and Buffy and them all.  They are so much more mature now and when they were in highschool, the behaved like highschoolers.  Now they act like adults, just like real life(well exept for the demons witchs and slayers and all, but pretty much real life.)  Character development rules.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Character Development *is* good.  However, when you don't stay true to the basic characteristics, you get a completely new character.  Xander has basically stayed true to his character, ditto with Buffy.  Xander has 'grown up' but it's a believable transformation.  Willow's was just too zany for my likins.  

 

Look at Season 1 Willow. Season 2 Willow is the same.  Season 3 Willow is the same (a few minor adjustments).  Season 4 Willow...Isn't.  Too big of a leap.  One minute shes a computer nerd, next she's a Indigo-girls lovin witch. Sort of like with Cordy in Angel.  Well, not the lesbian-thing, but the whole zany character transformation.  

 

Tara is the voice of reason to the hot headed Willow. Willow being the dominating lesbian.  I think this was firmly established with the whole 'simple' Tara in the Glory Saga.  Where Willow goes all pimp-like after Glory fucks up her ho and decides to take action...

 

Let's not forget the whole Xander/Willow dichotomy, they hint and hint and hint, short blow off, and nothin.  She went from being interested in two guys in high school, to being interested in the ladies in college.

[Guest Ripper]

Well, thats the way it works alot of times in the real word.  Hell, Carol married Ross on friends before she went to the lesbian world...Its pretty believable.  

 

I have to disagree with the minor adjustment thing in season 3.  She went from punk ass, colapse in the bed after a spell willow into bad ass Wicca.  She would shy from confrontation in season 1 and most of 2 but in season 3 started developing the backbone.  She had just lost the love of her life in season 4.  Riley was with Buffy and Xander had Anya...hell Giles had Olivia and Spike had Harmony!!! She was alone, and someone reached out...it just happened to be a woman that she had ALOT in common with.  It seem totally believable to me.  I also liked the slow build and little bits of sexual tension that was added instead of just BAM!!! Shes gay.  They went from friends, to little flirt here, little flirt there, to relationship.  

 

Tara has shown more of being the dominating one than willow(well not in the crazy Tara shows, but common, she was out of it)  She was the one that had to confort and calm down Willow when Joyce died, she was the one that was explaining what Buffy was going through, she was the on the would give her the calm down looks when Willow would get all spastic, she was the one that explained all the reprecussions to dawn bringing Joyce back, she was the one that was saving and picking up Willow on numerous times...hell in the musical epoisode, who gave who the look and just laid back, ready to be pleasured??? Who pulled WIllows punkass card on the using too much magic and not backing down from it.  Tara was the much stronger parter after the Family episode when she started developing her backbone.  

 

Willow still over worries about stuff, still is smart as a whip(what the hell does that mean anyway??) most of the nerdly qulities started to fade in the Oz days.  And come on, how much did you change after the first semester or two of college?

[Guest brokentusk16]

Am I the only one that thought that last episode sucked? Seriously, after watching it, I was so pissed that I had to pop in an episode of Farscape to calm down. "Ah yes. Plot, visual effects, and wonderful characer development. Ahhhhh."

 

First off, this has been an up and down season. I didn't like season 4 or 5 that much. The last 6 episodes or so of season 5 really made up for the black hole that was Riley, Tara, and the Initiative. This season was a significant mprovement. The Musical episode was easily one of the greatest episodes of the series run.

 

What I hated about this season was Dawn constant bitching. "You all hate me, why don't you leave me alone, pity me!!!" Without the need for a Key, why is she even still around? Another flaw was the whole Willow-Tara relationship. It seemed like all they did was walk around giggling, "Tee hee, we're lesbians, hee hee hee." We have accepted the fact that they're a couple, we don't need it jammed down our throats every friggin' episode!!!

 

But the biggest grip I have is the fact that the writiers didn't make Willow the big bad for this season. I saw Willow's shift toward the dark side as a good thing. After resurrecting Buffy she gained more triggerhappy with the magic. When Tara told her to stop, Willow got pissed off. With the influence of Amy,Willow became more powerhungry. What could have been the greatest Buffy villain since Evil Angel was instead turned into a pathetic junkie. Joss and the crew REALLY dropped the ball on that one!!

 

The one factor I've noticed is the lack of Joss written episodes. From what I hear, Whedon has been focusing more on Angel. I can understand this, Angel's future looked very shakey after Buffy left the WB. I only hope that next season Joss will take a more active role on Buffy, because some of these writers don't have a damn clue about the characters.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really do like Buffy. The past few years has tested my faith, but at the end of the season I've always still been there. I just hope that they can pull off a good finale and make the 7th season their best.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Well, Willow's 'over-indulgence' in the first part of the season was just a set up, a tease, a hint of what's to come.  Just when you think everything is ok then BAM! hell breaks loose.  You plant the seeds, water it a lil, leave it alone, then let it grow.

 

This season was a total transition season, you will appreciate it when next season rocks.

 

Once again, Tara has to calm down the hot-headed Willow.  Like the bitch to the pimp. 'Hey trick-daddy, you gatta calm down, don't beat that ho, she didnt mean to take yo monay'.  Does Tara have strength?  Yes. Is she the bitch in that relationship?  You better believe it.

 

Point taken about their lesbianism.  I still think it was too sudden, but I see your points. I still hate witches.  I like my quirkie characters quirkie.  A problem I have with Fred in Angel.

[Guest]

Hey I missed almost al of this season, can someone help me catch up? Like, a summary of the season wuld be nice.

[Guest Ripper]

"Once again, Tara has to calm down the hot-headed Willow.  Like the bitch to the pimp. 'Hey trick-daddy, you gatta calm down, don't beat that ho, she didnt mean to take yo monay'.  Does Tara have strength?  Yes. Is she the bitch in that relationship?  You better believe it."

 

LOL!!! Now that, I can't even try to pose a argument too.

 

 

And for a summery of the season go here

 

http://www.enteract.com/~perridox/SunS/

 

It is the site I go to to get others thoughts on shows...The give a extensive review of the show, their thoughts and comments.  They are updated all the way up till the last two episodes.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I takes it alls backs.  Willow is badass.  I mean before, all that witchcraft shit was just that..but now she is like fuckin, badass and shit.

 

They hyped her up pretty darn good with all the demons sensing her power and rage.  

 

I am now 100% positive that Joss is a big Dragonball Z fan.

 

*spoiler*

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******

 

The skin thing ROOOOOOOOOLD!  Though I found some of the acting to be a bit lame.  Like Buffy's reaction to the death of Tara and Warren getting the bullet in his chest...that should have been more painful...

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

GAH

 

spoilers below

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Willow kicked a ton of ass. That was great. So any idea what "one down" was referring too? I hope she doesn't go after poor widdle good guy Jonathon. Speaking of which, his convo with The Other Guy about Prison Bitches and Mathew Broderick was pure gold. And how bout Spike? He's going to be back to evil, and it will be glorious. It would be kinda cool to have him finally kill off his third slayer in the finale.

Oh, and what did everyone think of Angel?

[Guest Ozymandias]

Jesus fucking Christ I didn't see that part with Warren's skin coming AT ALL. Wow.

 

Now she'll kill - or try to kill - Jonathan & Andrew as a way for the show to demonstrate how evil/batshit she now is. Because though Warren STILL kinda deserved what he got because of his double homocide, the other 2 are just goofy kids - i.e. the Broderick chat.

 

I doubt Spike will go evil and chipless again. 'Cuz if you think about it, it'll negate everything that's happened over the last 2 years. I think Spike'll pass whatever ritual there is, but the demon will make him human again just as a cruel twist, because he knows it'll drive Spike/William fucking INSANE to get his soul back considering how prissy and sensitive he was when he was human.

 

I'm not saying I agree with that move (actually, I don't), but I think that's what they'll do.

 

And I LOVED Season 4, so there.

[Guest Risk]

The Adam season is rerunning on FX now, I gotta admit, I'm starting to like season four.  Adam seems like a pretty good villian after all.  Anyways, back to current episodes.  Anyone else notice Willow saying "Bored now"?  That was what what vampire Willow said.  I think Joss wanted the hardcore fans to notice that.

 

Marti Nixon did a good job writing this show.  One of the best shows this season.  Also, Spike has ALWAYS been "evil."  Don't kid yourselves into thinking he's EVER been a "good guy."  Vampires CAN feel the emotion of love, but they are also viscious creatures by nature.  They have no conscience, conscience is the soul.

 

Spike has the memories and SOME of the personality of William "The Bloody", but he has no conscience.

[Guest Ripper]

Since I don't think they count as spoilers anymore.....

 

 

 

HOLY SHIOTTTTTT!!!!!!

 

Willow has gone completely and totally nuts and I loved every minute of it.  The bullet thing really had me cringing, especially how she had sewn his mouth shut so she wouldn't have to hear him scream.  The she dropped the "Bored now" line and the skin just flew off...man I marked OUT!!!  It all comes full circle I guess.  We all kinda knew what evil Willow would be like.  She is now exactly like she was in that Doppleganger show(except she isn't a vamp).  She is a gay, all black wearing psycho.  The bored now line was just a bone to us long time fans of the show to let us know exactly how far gone she really is.  

 

And man did they make her powerful.  Really, REALLY powerful.  I liked how all the demons knew and felt it.  But I also got the feeling that they were trying to say she killed Osiris(the demon that broght Buffy back) at the begaining.  Then throw inthe fact that she stood up from getting hit with a freakin ax...the girl is going to be a tough one.

 

Adam Bucsh(Warren) did his thing in this show.  From the begaining bragging about the killing the Slayer, to his witty banter with Rack, to his attempt to be badass against Willow(although that wasn't very smart).  Great acting from him.  BTW, never EVER allow him to take his shirt off, even a little, again on any show/movie he appears in.  He makes Albert look smooth skinned.  Thats one hairy man.

 

The Spike thing.  I got a sneaky feeling that this will turn him into super Angel Clone and give him his soul back.  Ugh...I want Willam the Bloody.  I have wanted him for about 2 seasons now, and this will just piss me off to no end if they don't do it.  

 

As much as people don't like Dawns character, the kid has been through too much at 15.  Finding out she wasn't real and all her memories were made up, Her mom dying, her sister dying and coming back to finding Tara there dead and being in the room with the body all day.  Poor kid.  All that and she still has to go through highschool.

 

Next weeks show looks like it will be kick ass.  Buffy vs. Willow: who will win.  Unless Willow gets tired and worn out from all the magic, there is no concieveable way Buffy could win this fight.  2 more hours and season  is done.  

 

And I like season 6 so there.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Dude, Spike turning human would be the twists to end all twists.  I can't see him going heel (rather than evil) on the bunch since the Willow Saga is just starting up.

 

The Axe thing ROOOOOOOOOOCKED!!!!  She totally no sold it.  I was like...BEEE-ITCH!  You done gone done it now!

 

I DID NOT pick up on the 'bored now' thing... I feel so... Worthless.

 

I was watchin some of the Adam Saga today (where Adam dies to be exactly) and Super Buffy was pretty much well exactly like Evil Willow.  It was better than I remembered, Adam was a pretty good villain, just too over the top.

 

They haven't finished with Badassing Willow up.  But I think the next 2 hour Season Finale will be more psychological and shite.  Since Willow is a major character and this is a major leap they need to really dig into the rationale.  Buffy is so gettin her ass kicked.  Does anyone think Giles will come back since he was really anti-dark arts?

*******

Angel:

 

Angel ruled as usual with a WICKED-ASS turn in the end there. I HATE this cordillia chase character change!  TOO WISE!  This is BULLSHEET!  I do like Gru though, good guy.  I knew the whole father/son thing was too good to be true and the letter and the two marks on holtzs' neck were just PEFECTOH!  Wesley and Lilah have REALLY good chemistry and I am totally diggin where this is going.  The TENSION between Lorne and Connor was thick.  Cut it with a knife and stuff.