Give me reasons to hate Shawn Michaels.

[Papacita 0]

Put Y2J over by tapping on Raw Summer 2003.

If that match put anyone over, it was Orton.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

It's the fucking WWE. Pay-Per-View. National televised audience.

 

You need the better understanding. The matches were all built up.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

So, Shawn beating Orton clean only for Flair to cheat to get the match restarted and then Orton having to cheat to get the win was Orton getting put over?

[pochorenella 0]

Like when Bret Hart jobbed to Shawn at WMXII but didn't really put him over?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If you don't know what you're talking about, then do everyone a favor and don't post.

[Guest Rrrsh]

HBK has put on more **** matches with diffrent guys than anyone ever.

 

I am glad you have seen the light!

[Coolclint 0]

JERICHO:

 

Put Y2J over as a sneaky victor at Rumble 2003.

Put Y2J over by tapping on Raw Summer 2003.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe everyone else is wiping this from their minds, but Michaels still won the one that counted at WMXIX. You know, the one that might have reestablished Jericho as a threat to the title, but Michaels pinned him clean in the middle of the ring?

 

Yeah. That one.

[Jingus 0]

Sledge: the thread is called "GIVE ME REASONS TO HATE SHAWN MICHAELS". Fuck off.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

HBK has put on more **** matches with diffrent guys than anyone ever.

 

I am glad you have seen the light!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ok first with the Jericho comment a few posts above me...

 

Is HHH, Undertaker, or JBL still breathing and wrestling? Then Jericho, RVD, and Booker T will probably not be main eventing or holding world titles anytime soon. Had the Wrestlemania had Jericho winning he would had to have cheated and then people would have said he didn't put Jericho over.

I stopped caring about who wins in a rigged contest (except when HHH or JBL win.) I want to see a good match.

 

In any case, I think that HBK has had good matches with the following in the past: Undertaker, HHH, Angle, Jericho, Diesel, Mankind, Austin, and heard he had a good match with some luggage uh I mean Sid. I have seen him wrestle those guys.

 

 

If want to hate Shawn, hate him for all the stuff he did between '96-'98. Of course if he didn't lose his smile then Bret would have faced him at WM 13 and I don't know, Austin vs. Owen Hart.

[pochorenella 0]

Like when Bret Hart jobbed to Shawn at WMXII but didn't really put him over?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you don't know what you're talking about, then do everyone a favor and don't post.

 

HTQ, I was addressing your post about people confusing putting over to jobbing. I'm giving an example. Why the hell do you get worked up about it?

[zyn081 0]

JERICHO:

 

Put Y2J over as a sneaky victor at Rumble 2003.

Put Y2J over by tapping on Raw Summer 2003.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Once again, someone confuses putting someone over with doing a job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To refresh everybodys memory in very simple terms. Doing a job is when you lose to somebody cause your told to. Putting somebody over means elevating them in front of viewers.

 

Nobody remembers that RAW tap unless someone reminds them about it, and I doubt that marks will really remember it.

 

The Rumble is the 2nd largest PPV but that wasnt the payoff.

 

Jericho was red hot going into WMX19. The win meant nothing to HBK. Jericho had to win though. IMHO, he should have jobbed to Jericho and done his best to get him over (more than he already was).

 

HBK didnt want to job to Bret during 1997. You can get people over without losing though, like he did with Shelton Benjamin.

 

BUT HBK is in the twilight of his career. Whether he wins or loses the majority of his remaining matches is not as important as elevating the rest of the roster.

 

A WM lose would not have detracted anything from HBK, cause hes bulletproof. Marks will always cheer for him and titles and victories do not really matter to him at this stage in his career. His WM win-lose record isnt that good either. All it would have taken was for JR to say that HBKs WM curse continues.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I was perfectly fine with Michaels over Jericho at WM 19.

 

The storyline going into the match was: Jericho idolized HBK. They said "Jericho will be the next HBK". Jericho didn't want that. He wanted to be bigger.

 

Michaels has always been a better worker than Jericho.

At WM 19, HBK was a better worker than Jericho.

Right now, HBK, old age and all, is a much better worker.

 

So at Mania, Jericho tested himself and lost. Came so so close. Great match. Way it should've ended.

[zyn081 0]

So at Mania, Jericho tested himself and lost.  Came so so close.  Great match.  Way it should've ended.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But IMHO it wasnt portrayed as so.

[Guest jm29195]

I can't remember the exact circumstances but didn't Goldberg/Shawn happen on a Raw in late 03 for the title with Goldberg going over clean? That would be the second time HBK put Goldberg over.....

[iggymcfly 0]

For the record, Shawn put Benoit over twice as well.

 

As far as Jericho goes, jobbing to HBK was the least of his problems. The problem is that when he's facing mid to low card guys at random PPVs, he still doesn't win.

 

How are we supposed to take Jericho seriously as a threat to Cena's title, when he couldn't even beat Cena in an unannounced match where Cena made his PPV debut.

 

Shit, Jericho even lost to Flair on PPV. His problem is more a general decision by the booking committee to use him exclusively as a JTTS then it is a matter of one person not "putting him over."

[Dark Age 0]

HBK has put on more **** matches with diffrent guys than anyone ever.

 

No, he really hasn't.

 

For the record, Shawn put Benoit over twice as well.

 

What don't you understand? Shawn JOBBED to Benoit twice, yes. Putting him over is a different thing. THIS HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIMES! Understand it. I'll give you the Backlash job, though. The second Raw match, however, didn't put Benoit over at all. Shawn had the match won before Trips' run-in, and what did the aftermatch focus on? Yep, Triple H has cost Shawn Michaels the world title. That's all.

 

As far as Jericho goes, jobbing to HBK was the least of his problems. The problem is that when he's facing mid to low card guys at random PPVs, he still doesn't win.

 

See, I disagree with that. Name a low-card guy Jericho had jobbed to on PPV, leading to WM? He jobbed to Flair at the previous SummerSlam, and Cena at Vengeance. Flair was still an upper carder, while Cena was being prepared for that (the Vengeance job was a terrible decision, though). After that, he had wins over Flair and Hardy in his two singles PPV matches, had a good showing in before the Chamber and the Rumble, and jobbed to Book (I think) in the Armageddon 4-way. The WrestleMania match WOULD, COULD and SHOULD have elevated Jericho. It didn't, because it was made clear that Shawn Michaels was better than Chris Jericho. A guy with just 5 matches in 5 years, who had just been beaten by Triple H, beat a supposed main eventer. Jericho looked like shit.

 

How are we supposed to take Jericho seriously as a threat to Cena's title, when he couldn't even beat Cena in an unannounced match where Cena made his PPV debut.

 

I agree, Jericho jobbing to Cena at Vengeance02 was awful. It shouldn't have happened. That doesn't change the fact that Jericho jobbing to Shawn was awful, too. They don't cancel each other out.

 

Shit, Jericho even lost to Flair on PPV. His problem is more a general decision by the booking committee to use him exclusively as a JTTS then it is a matter of one person not "putting him over."

 

He got that win back (on PPV). That doesn't make it right, but it's more than what happened with Shawn. The difference is, though, that WrestleMania was Jericho's match. Nobody cared about the Flair match. Winning it wouldn't (and didn't) elevate Jericho one bit, but beating Shawn at Mania could have.

 

I can't remember the exact circumstances but didn't Goldberg/Shawn happen on a Raw in late 03 for the title with Goldberg going over clean? That would be the second time HBK put Goldberg over.....

 

Nah, that ended in a DQ win for Shawn (or maybe a no contest) when Batista interfered. Actually, I think Shawn was preparing for SCM when Dave came out, so he might have had that match won, too.

 

Michaels has always been a better worker than Jericho.

 

Not really. I'm not going to argue that right now, because I'm not even sure which side I'm on, but I don't think I would completely agree.

 

At WM 19, HBK was a better worker than Jericho.

 

I can't work out whether you're referring to the characters of Jericho and Shawn (like, Shawn's higher on the card, so he's a better wrestler) or their actual ability. If it is their ability you're talking about, then you're a fool. Jericho outworked Shawn at Mania. No question.

 

Right now, HBK, old age and all, is a much better worker.

 

Again, not really. Jericho isn't great right now, but neither is Shawn.

 

So at Mania, Jericho tested himself and lost. Came so so close. Great match. Way it should've ended.

 

No. The match should have been Jericho proving that he DOES belong at the top, and that he has surpassed Shawn Michaels. That's the only reasonable finish. But, hey, why elevate a guy who has the potential to draw when you can put a 40 year old guy who will always be over, will always be at the top of the card, and will never lose face at all over instead?

 

Is HHH, Undertaker, or JBL still breathing and wrestling? Then Jericho, RVD, and Booker T will probably not be main eventing or holding world titles anytime soon. Had the Wrestlemania had Jericho winning he would had to have cheated and then people would have said he didn't put Jericho over.

I stopped caring about who wins in a rigged contest (except when HHH or JBL win.) I want to see a good match.

 

And that means what? You can twist it however you want, but, regardless, Shawn Michaels should have jobbed to Chris Jericho at WrestleMania. Clean.

[Guest Stunt Granny]

I don't think Shawn should have jobbed in his big Wrestlemania comeback match. It would have been kind of depressing, but Shawn COULD have given Jericho a clean job in a return match at Backlash at the very least much like Angle did for him this year.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

That grotesque one-shoulder sash thing he pranced to the ring in at Vengeance.

 

As far as the argument goes, I only really hate him for little things like that these days, I can't fault his workrate since his comeback. Shouldn't have had the title reign, and shouldn't have got his win over Angle, but he's not the worst (anymore) by any stretch.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Is HHH, Undertaker, or JBL still breathing and wrestling? Then Jericho, RVD, and Booker T will probably not be main eventing or holding world titles anytime soon. Had the Wrestlemania had Jericho winning he would had to have cheated and then people would have said he didn't put Jericho over.

I stopped caring about who wins in a rigged contest (except when HHH or JBL win.) I want to see a good match.

 

And that means what? You can twist it however you want, but, regardless, Shawn Michaels should have jobbed to Chris Jericho at WrestleMania. Clean.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Did heel Jericho ever win cleanly during a PPV? I remember when he was the champ and he beat the Rock and Austin by cheating. The only way I could accept Jericho winning is if he used the Liontamer again instead of the worst Boston Crab in the world.

 

What I meant is that Jericho, Benoit, and insert anybody else you like, don't have much upward mobility because of Undertaker, HHH, JBL, and of course RKO.

 

The divas get more screen time than your favorite wrestlers.

 

I know the this isn't the sports folder but the New Jersey Devils should have put over the Mighty Ducks during the Stanley Cup Final. After the Ducks lost, they turned into jobbers. I hate the NJ Devils.

[Guest Mosaicv2]

RRrsh most hated thread... ever.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

"Name a low-card guy Jericho had jobbed to on PPV, leading to WM?"

 

At the '03 Rumble, mother-fucking TEST eliminated Jericho.

 

And by the way, Jericho rarely, if-ever, wrestles on PPV leading to WM. No Way Out is usually a Smackdown! PPV, and Y2J competes in the Rumble.

 

2005

Rumble - Jericho wrestles in it. No Way Out - Smackdown PPV

 

2004

Rumble - Jericho wrestles in it. No Way Out - Smackdown PPV

 

2003

Rumble - Jericho wrestles in it. No Way Out - Works Jeff Hardy for God's Sakes. Originally rumored to job to Test (with HBK interference).

[Jericholic82 0]

Man the IWC is more bitter than even I ever thought.

 

I'll give you a reason to love shawn, he did refuse to job to shane douglas, I mean was the world really clamoring for Intercontinental Champion Dean Douglas?

 

 

Seriously though, you can't claim that he screwed Bret cuz Vince did. Sure he probably enjoyed that Bret got humiliated but it wasnt his call. Uless you have some source saying that it was shanw who got in vinces head and convinced him to do it, my opinion doesnt change.

 

as for the flag, nose picking: he was a HEEL and was trying to get the canadians as pissed off as possible. geez, you dont see us Americans complaining that The Unamericans carried the USA flag upside down do you? Or especially when Jim duggan wore tights with the flag near his crotch.

 

besides making fun of canada is funny LMAO I'm just playing with you guys, Canada is a great nation filled with wonderful, peaceful people and great atheletes.

 

Peter Griffin: "Canada Sucks"

 

Damn you Peter for ruining the love.

 

 

I have already spoken on the jericho-hbk thing so I refuse to talk about that anymore.

[Dark Age 0]

I was talking about the PPVs leading to WM19. You didn't name any "low carders" that he jobbed to. Test threw him over the top rope at the Rumble, after Shawn interfered. That's it.

[Dark Age 0]

And I never heard that Jericho was going to job to Test at NWO. That's news to me.

[Guest Rrrsh]

RRrsh most hated thread... ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh, the thread turned into the usual garbage of Jericho losing at WM 19. Some people have valid points, but for the most parts idiots like Choken HAS STAYED OUT, and Looney Tune got his stupid ass banned a while ago.

 

I got issues with blind haters, this thread has a minimum of that.

[zyn081 0]

Seriously though, you can't claim that he screwed Bret cuz Vince did. Sure he probably enjoyed that Bret got humiliated but it wasnt his call. Uless you have some source saying that it was shanw who got in vinces head and convinced him to do it, my opinion doesnt change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahhh yes, thats why HBK was a bitch about returing the job.

 

And I never heard that Jericho was going to job to Test at NWO. That's news to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IIRC, thats what they were going to do Test pinning Jericho after HBK interfered costing Jericho the match. They decided that that would make Jericho look bad in the run up to WM, so they brought that forward to the Royal Rumble and then Hogan and Flair starting saying that Jeff did things in the ring that nobody else could do, and somebody likened him to HBK's athletecism.

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

As mentioned before, McMahon made the decision for Bret to lose, not Shawn. HBK has consistently had the most **** matches in WWE history. The man is a legend and a modern day Ric Flair.

[Dark Age 0]

No he hasn't.

[iliketurtles 0]

The match at Mania 19 should of ended with HBK tapping out clean to the Walls on the last effort by Jericho (similar to the way Angle/HBK went this year), then hugging with Jericho, then Jericho kicking him in the balls.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

As mentioned before, McMahon made the decision for Bret to lose, not Shawn.  HBK has consistently had the most **** matches in WWE history.  The man is a legend and a modern day Ric Flair.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree on the first point. Yes, Shawn was being a bitch about jobbing to Bret, but the ultimate decision lay with Vince. I also don't think Shawn would have that much of a problem with the DQ win, at least not enough to quit the company over as that was basically the only leverage Shawn had at the time.

 

On the second, Chris Benoit has had more ****+ matches in his 5 years with the company than HBK has in 16. Benoit has had the WWE MOTY for the last four years as well (2001 - vs. Steve Austin, 2002 - w/ Angle vs. Rey & Edge, 2003 - vs. Kurt Angle, 2004 - vs. Shawn vs. HHH). He was hardly a slouch in 2000 too with three great matches against Jericho and another against the Rock. His HHH match at No Mercy wasn't at that high level, but was better than any HBK/HHH singles match. Benoit/Angle is also better than HBK/Angle. Benoit/Orton was much better than HBK/Orton. Benoit/Jericho was better than Shawn/Jericho. Benoit/Austin was better than Shawn/Austin.

 

If you include Benoit's other work than it isn't even close between him and Shawn.

 

At WM XIX, I would have accepted a tainted victory as long as it didn't involve 5 guys running in (a low blow or something like that would have been fine). Jericho was a heel after all. But he needed to have his hand raised at the end.