Cover for Infinite Crisis #1

[JasonX 0]

To be fair Sass, the Post-Crisis Luthor was portrayed as an egotist who would rather make Superman piss his pants FEARING he would destroy his loved ones than actually doing it; the fact that Lex tortured Lana Lang to the brink of death for shits and giggles showed that he could do it if he wanted to.

 

Also, with the exception of Jimmy Olsen, Luthor already hated Superman's supporting cast and had his own revenge schemes in the work for reasons other than them being Superman's friends. He fucked Perry White's wife and was the father of the White family's only child. He outright ruined Lois's life just before Zero Hour and had her blacklisted when she found out Luthor framed an innocent man for a murder he didn't committ. Hell, he even blackmailed Metropolis's top cop Maggie Sawyer for being gay just because he could.

 

One irony of all of this is that DC actually HAD Lex finally figure out Superman's ID when Smallville debuted. Of course he was later mindwiped by Joe Kelly pet character Manchester Black, but Jeph Loeb actually explained why Lex wouldn't do anything which was that even though Lex hates Superman and Lois Lane, Lex had a sudden epithany after realizing Superman's secret ID where he realized how easy it would be to destroy Superman now that he knew and decided to keep quiet that he knew so that he could use it as an insurance policy against Superman if and when the shithammer came down on him.....

[Guest JMA]

Rann/Thanagar has been boring as of yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've actually been enjoying The Rann/Thanagar War--I'm a huge mark for intergalactic conflicts. Despite the old-school coolness of Rann, though, I'm rooting for Thanagar.

[Vampiro69 0]

Picked up the first issue of Rann/Thanager but couldn't get into for some reason. Plus I needed to save some money.

[Guest JMA]

Picked up the first issue of Rann/Thanager but couldn't get into for some reason.  Plus I needed to save some money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sympathize with your money issue. I've had to give up buying DVDs and video games to pay for comics. I miss the good old days when a single issue didn't cost three dollars or more.

[SuperJerk 0]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl. Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

[Guest JMA]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to disagree. While Krypton shouldn't look like Flash Gordon, it also shouldn't look like THX 1138 meets Solaria. I am happy that's gone.

[Sass 0]

Smallville is an ok show but nothing special.  I believe that it will be nearly forgotten after 10 years.  The show just won't have a long term impact. 

 

Look at Batman the Animated Series.  That has had a huge impact on the books.  Mr. Freeze was changed to coincide with the TV series.  Plus when you ask people what there ideal interpetation of Batman was, most will point out that when they think of Batman they thing of BTAS.

 

Hey does anyone remember the Superboy TV show in the 80's?  I don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That worked out though. Post-Crisis Mr.Freeze made his debut in, I believe, the first issue of the 1992 Robin mini-series and didn't show back up until Detective Comics #670. That's like 7/8 years after Crisis came out and the last time I can remember Freeze facing off against Batman was in the Pre-Year One Batman revamp with issue #400.

 

There was room for improvement.

 

The creators had some room to change or add things to the Mr.Freeze character, who had never been a force in the Bat villains gallery until the BTAS episode came out and made people go, "whoa, this guy's pretty badass but cool" and helped give a 2nd (or 3rd) life to Mr.Freeze.

[Vampiro69 0]

Only other thing that I can add about Mr. Freeze is that Captain Cold could wipe the floor with him.

[Sass 0]

To be fair Sass, the Post-Crisis Luthor was portrayed as an egotist who would rather make Superman piss his pants FEARING he would destroy his loved ones than actually doing it; the fact that Lex tortured Lana Lang to the brink of death for shits and giggles showed that he could do it if he wanted to.

 

Also, with the exception of Jimmy Olsen, Luthor already hated Superman's supporting cast and had his own revenge schemes in the work for reasons other than them being Superman's friends. He fucked Perry White's wife and was the father of the White family's only child. He outright ruined Lois's life just before Zero Hour and had her blacklisted when she found out Luthor framed an innocent man for a murder he didn't committ. Hell, he even blackmailed Metropolis's top cop Maggie Sawyer for being gay just because he could.

 

One irony of all of this is that DC actually HAD Lex finally figure out Superman's ID when Smallville debuted. Of course he was later mindwiped by Joe Kelly pet character Manchester Black, but Jeph Loeb actually explained why Lex wouldn't do anything which was that even though Lex hates Superman and Lois Lane, Lex had a sudden epithany after realizing Superman's secret ID where he realized how easy it would be to destroy Superman now that he knew and decided to keep quiet that he knew so that he could use it as an insurance policy against Superman if and when the shithammer came down on him.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You just summed up why I like the post-Crisis Lex Luthor.

 

Superman #178 was where Lex found out Supes secret identity too. Lame, lame issue, which I remember Wizard touting as the next Amazing Spider-Man #39...

[Sass 0]

Only other thing that I can add about Mr. Freeze is that Captain Cold could wipe the floor with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe.

 

CC is more creative with his Cold Gun...but Freeze is a death march storm trooper who won't quit. Whatever city they fight in will be under deep freeze for a looooonnngg time...

[Guest JMA]

Only other thing that I can add about Mr. Freeze is that Captain Cold could wipe the floor with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Then again, doesn't Cold have a code against killing? I remember reading that somewhere.

[Sass 0]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Superman #166 was okay with me. I liked Alan Moore's take on Krypton life in the issue where Supes and Mongul duked it out since it made them seem a little more human. You couldn't do that with Byrne's version of what Kryptonian life was like so the storyline possibilities were less varied.

 

Byrne really pushed the "he's from an alien world" angle with the Man of Steel revamp but I did not mind the change with #166.

[Guest JMA]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Superman #166 was okay with me. I liked Alan Moore's take on Krypton life in the issue where Supes and Mongul since it made them a little more human. You couldn't do that with Byrne's version of what Kryptonian life was like so the storyline possibilities were less varied.

 

Byrne really pushed the "he's from an alien world" angle with the Man of Steel revamp but I did not mind the change with #166.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah yes, "For the Man Who Has Everything." That's quite possibly my favorite Pre-Crisis Superman story ever. I really wish Moore could've written Superman after the Crisis, but he couldn't due to certain problems.

 

The story was in Superman Annual #11.

[Sass 0]

DC should have let Moore do all of his Miracleman stories in Superman, the 1st series.

 

Holy shit, that would have been *awesome* to read...Lois giving birth to Superbaby Jr., Krypto being used to attack Superman, and Lex Luthor getting thrown down to earth from space would have been great.

 

Oh well...

[Guest JMA]

DC should have let Moore do all of his Miracleman stories in Superman, the 1st series.

 

Holy shit, that would have been *awesome* to read...Lois giving birth to Superbaby Jr., Krypto being used to attack Superman, and Lex Luthor getting thrown down to earth from space would have been great.

 

Oh well...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hell yeah! Moore's Miracleman was awesome and would've been great as the new Superman origin.

[Sass 0]

I always liked the idea Moore explored with Bizarro in Supes #423...

 

Bizarro: "See, me suddenly realize that me am not perfect imperfect duplicate! Maybe me not not trying hard enough. Example: When your planet Krypton blow up by accident, you am coming to Earth as baby...so me decide to blow up whole Bizarro World on purpose and come to Earth as adult!"

 

Superman: "Bizarro...what's happened to you? I can't believe you've really destroyed your homeworld!"

 

Bizarro: "Ha! That am only beginning! Next, me realize that Superman never kill, so me kill lots of people! Them very grateful! Scream with happiness!"

 

Superman: "Killed people? Oh, merciful Rao..."

 

Superman vs. Bizarro in a Metropolis throwdown, ala Miracleman/Kid Miracleman fight.

[ZGangsta 0]

Hey, can someone explain to me when and how (and who was responsible) for Krypto's return. I kinda stopped reading comics between DC One Million and Identity Crisis.

 

As for Lex Luthor, I loved his character the most in 94 around the Fall of Metropolis storyline.

[Guest JMA]

Hey, can someone explain to me when and how (and who was responsible) for Krypto's return. I kinda stopped reading comics between DC One Million and Identity Crisis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Krypto is from a faux Krypton located in the Phantom Zone. This Krypton resembled the classic version and it was created as a trap for Superman by Brainiac. Krypto basically came over to the "real" world and gained powers like Superman

 

Of course, since the whole premise for that storyline had to do with a utopian Krypton in contrast with a dystopian one, it couldn't have happened in current DC continuity (since Krypton is officially a utopia again). Thus, Krypto needs a new origin to explain his existense.

[JasonX 0]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Superman #166 was okay with me. I liked Alan Moore's take on Krypton life in the issue where Supes and Mongul duked it out since it made them seem a little more human. You couldn't do that with Byrne's version of what Kryptonian life was like so the storyline possibilities were less varied.

 

Byrne really pushed the "he's from an alien world" angle with the Man of Steel revamp but I did not mind the change with #166.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually Superman #166 and it's follow-up arc "Return To Krypton" were so widely reviled that DC actually had the balls to make Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly do a second "Return To Krypton" arc to purge Superman #166's retcon from canon, by revealing that it was a "Fuck-You" Pocket Universe Krypton designed by Brainiac 13 in the style of Buck Rogers to mess with Superman's head and ended with Superman and Lois Lane (dressed up like Pre-Crisis Nightwing and Flamebird, Batman and Superman's Kandor-themed identities) saving Pocket Krypton from exploding and taking Pocket-Krypton Jor-El's pet dog Krypto with him when Jor-El announced that his wife was pregnant.

 

God the Kelly/Loeb Superman era was fucked up. Makes you wonder how Joe Casey, the only Superman writer at the time who DIDN'T want to raise the Pre-Crisis Superman universe from the shitter, lasted as long as he did without strangling someone. Let alone why DC still refuses to collect the Casey Superman run, what with the fact that it was the only Superman book of the period that people liked.....

[Sass 0]

That revamp left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Mine included. Bleh.

 

Plus, I never cared for McG's version of Supes. He just looked *too* cartoonish to me. Plus, he looked like Hulk Hogan's bastard offspring. He had muscles in places Rob Liesfeld would have never thought about.

[Vampiro69 0]

Only other thing that I can add about Mr. Freeze is that Captain Cold could wipe the floor with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Then again, doesn't Cold have a code against killing? I remember reading that somewhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

In the recent Flash issues dealing with the Rouge War Cold says that you only spill blood when it is neccessary.

 

Cold recently froze the Top and shattered him into a million pieces. So Cold will kill when it is neccessary.

[SuperJerk 0]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Superman #166 was okay with me. I liked Alan Moore's take on Krypton life in the issue where Supes and Mongul duked it out since it made them seem a little more human. You couldn't do that with Byrne's version of what Kryptonian life was like so the storyline possibilities were less varied.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing about that is, though, anything to be done with that version of Superman's origin was pretty much already done by the time Byrne came along.

 

The thing I like most about Byrne's Krpton is that it actually seemed like a plausible alien world, instead of a 1930s science fiction writer's idea of what an alien culture might be like. Byrne's version, though, I've heard was nullified by Superman: Birthright. I have not read Superman: Birthright, but what changes were made to Superman's origin in that story?

[Guest JMA]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Superman #166 was okay with me. I liked Alan Moore's take on Krypton life in the issue where Supes and Mongul duked it out since it made them seem a little more human. You couldn't do that with Byrne's version of what Kryptonian life was like so the storyline possibilities were less varied.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing about that is, though, anything to be done with that version of Superman's origin was pretty much already done by the time Byrne came along.

 

The thing I like most about Byrne's Krpton is that it actually seemed like a plausible alien world, instead of a 1930s science fiction writer's idea of what an alien culture might be like. Byrne's version, though, I've heard was nullified by Superman: Birthright. I have not read Superman: Birthright, but what changes were made to Superman's origin in that story?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't hate Byrne's Krypton, but I did think it could've been better. There was no tragedy behind it's destruction, it was a mercy death. The futuristic dystopia was, quite frankly, overused during the eighties and nineties. I think Krypton should represent a positive view of what humans could become--that's originally why Superman was called "The Man of Tomorrow." That being said, I did like the use of Byrne's Krypton in The Nail (which was just a good story all around).

 

As for Superman: Birthright, I can pretty much help you with that. There's a page explaining the new elements on the Superman Homepage (I do some comic reviews there)--check it out here. Alternatively, you could just read Superman: Secret Files 2005 which comes out in November and features a retelling of Superman's origin.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Solicitation for issue 3

 

INFINITE CRISIS #3

Written by Geoff Johns

Art by Phil Jimenez & Andy Lanning

Covers by Jim Lee & Sandra Hope and George Pérez

 

War is brought home as Wonder Woman leads the Amazons in a struggle to maintain their control of Paradise Island in the face of a full-on OMAC onslaught — just as the Spectre turns his vengeful eye toward Atlantis! And as the DCU is plunged into chaos, Batman is offered one last chance at the life he’s always wanted…but at what price? Retailers please note: This issue will ship with covers by Lee & Hope (approximately 50%) and Pérez (approximately 50%).

 

On sale December 14 • 3 of 7 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Marv Wolfman will write an "Infinite Crisis Secret Files" issue that will directly link Crisis on Infinite Earths with Infinite Crisis

 

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread...?threadid=43574

[Vampiro69 0]

Sweetness! Wolfman is a great writer and I am glad to see him writing for this event.

[SuperJerk 0]

The ret-conning that pisses me off the most is the return of the art deco Flash Gordon inspired head-band wearing green & red Krypton.

 

That goes double for stupid as hell Krypto and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl.  Some pre-Crisis ideas deserved to stay buried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Superman #166 was okay with me. I liked Alan Moore's take on Krypton life in the issue where Supes and Mongul duked it out since it made them seem a little more human. You couldn't do that with Byrne's version of what Kryptonian life was like so the storyline possibilities were less varied.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing about that is, though, anything to be done with that version of Superman's origin was pretty much already done by the time Byrne came along.

 

The thing I like most about Byrne's Krpton is that it actually seemed like a plausible alien world, instead of a 1930s science fiction writer's idea of what an alien culture might be like. Byrne's version, though, I've heard was nullified by Superman: Birthright. I have not read Superman: Birthright, but what changes were made to Superman's origin in that story?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't hate Byrne's Krypton, but I did think it could've been better. There was no tragedy behind it's destruction, it was a mercy death. The futuristic dystopia was, quite frankly, overused during the eighties and nineties. I think Krypton should represent a positive view of what humans could become--that's originally why Superman was called "The Man of Tomorrow." That being said, I did like the use of Byrne's Krypton in The Nail (which was just a good story all around).

 

As for Superman: Birthright, I can pretty much help you with that. There's a page explaining the new elements on the Superman Homepage (I do some comic reviews there)--check it out here. Alternatively, you could just read Superman: Secret Files 2005 which comes out in November and features a retelling of Superman's origin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Byrne's Krypton was ultimately a product of 1986, but it was also the template DC was using for most of the next two decades, so to totally flush it with "Birthright" calls a lot of the stories that were published between 1986 and 2004 into question. I'm sure this is how silver age readers felt after the first Crisis. (The difference being the first Crisis was justifed to modernize DC, whereas "Birthright" seems to only exist to justify the existence of a TV show.)

 

DC seems bound and determined to reset their continuity back to 1984.

 

It would be nice if there was a way for them to say "fuck it" and start over, but that would leave a lot of marketable characters out in the cold. This is essentially what Marvel did with their "Ultimate" line, with an accelerated effort being made to introduce as many mainstream Marvel characters into the Ultimate line as possible.

[Dr. Zaius 0]

DC seems bound and determined to reset their continuity back to 1984.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bingo.

[SuperJerk 0]

Marv Wolfman will write  an "Infinite Crisis Secret Files" issue that will directly link Crisis on Infinite Earths with Infinite Crisis

 

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread...?threadid=43574

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its almost as if they decided to create the link as an afterthought.

[Dr. Zaius 0]

Again...Bingo.

 

edit: And there was a giant spider in "Birthright"? Was Jon Peters attached to this project?

Edited September 19, 2005 by Scorpius