Could a Round Robin Tournament work

[Dangerous A 0]

This came to me while I was on the train ride home from work yesterday.

 

I am a huge fan of New Japan's G-1 Climax and All Japan's Champion Carnival pro wrestling tournaments, especially when it's Round Robin style as opposed to single elimination brackets. I don't have a problem with single elimination brackets, I just favor Round Robin style.

 

Years ago, around 2002 or so, I called into WOL when Jim Cornette was a guest and asked him and Meltz if they felt a Round Robin style tournament could get over in North America, particularly WWE. Both of them said they didn't think it could get over because fans don't want to keep score with the point system and all. The only time I can recall a Round Robin style tournament being done in NA is NWA/WCW Starcade '90(?) I believe. I know it was called Future Shock. They had 2 going on with Luger, Muta, Flair, and Sting as the singles and SST, Steiners, Road Warriors, and another team that fails to come to me right now. I didn't think that night was bad at all.

 

I am of the belief it could get over, if it was done right. Keeping score would be easy as you could have graphics up on the Titan-Tron for live fans and show graphics of the point standings before matches began. After shows end, you could have the point standings up on the website. Announcers would have to be on point as far as putting over the ramifications of wins and losses and what the opponents needs are as the tourney goes farther on.

 

The reason I believe it could get over is keeping score isn't that big a deal. I know a lot of fans are there to be entertained, but keeping score at other sporting events isn't that hard and only the retarded can't keep up or figure it out. If done properly, the Round Robin tourney can provide tons of entertainment as well as be a starting point for new feuds as well as escalate already existing issues amongst people already feuding. It can also be used to elevate people. Of course I'd keep things simple and maybe have a Raw block and a Smackdown block with 4-5 guys a block. Then on a ppv, you could have the winner of each block face off in an interpromotional match with the winner getting a title shot at their respective brand's champion. Think of this as an upgrad to the old King of the Ring, except it would have upper midcarders and ME'ers. (at least I'd like to hope so)

 

I know current creative would probrably screw all of this up, but kind of suspend your disbelief for a minute with this. If the right type of people were to book a Round Robin style tourney in WWE, could it get over?

[nl5xsk1 0]

The other team was Doom.

 

And I think - even though it was a desperate move by a dying organization - that a Team Challenge Series, like the AWA did, would be a good idea, and would work better than a round robin tourney.

 

Have X-number of captains pick teams and then have matches set up per these teams. The wrestler that wins earns 2 points for his team, time limit draws earn a point each. Have it last for X number of weeks, or even just for one PPV. I don't know why, but I think it'd increase interest. Plus, it'd give a reason for two random wrestlers to have a match that actually meant something.

[Dangerous A 0]

I remember the AWA doing that right before they went under. Seemed like something very original.

 

Wonder, with the team captain thing, could that be used as a lead up or upgrade to the old Survivor Series elimination tags?

[nl5xsk1 0]

Yeah, it sucked for the AWA because they had like next-to-no talent left. With a roster the size of the WWE, they could have 4 captains picking teams of 8-10 people, and then putting together a schedule according to each captain's ranking of their picks.

 

Team A would have have their #1 wrestle Team B's #1, and their #2 wrestle team C's #2, and their #3 guy wrestle Team D's #3 (and so on and so forth). Maybe throw in the occasional tag or 6-man tag match for variety. Have the teams with the best records (most points) meet up in a PPV or "Clash of the Champions"-style free TV supercard, with the entire roster for those teams facing off in a series of matches.

 

Maybe say the winning team splits $1,000,000, which would explain why heels and faces would be willing to work together.

 

Plus, this could springboard to feuds after the Team Challenge Series is over. (e.g. say JBL is one captain, and his team wins it all ... he might say that one of his wrestlers, say Shelton Benjamin, didn't do enough in his matches to deserve his portion of the winnings ... bam, instant feud.)

[Dangerous A 0]

Amazing how we used competition examples as a way to jump start a program for guys and we didn't have to use things like spilling coffee, picking up dog poo, necrophilia, xenophobia, or homophobia to do it.

[RedJed 0]

A team challenge-eque idea would be strong leading in on the TV shows to a Survivor Series ppv that would have the team that wins the brackets on Raw against a team who wins the Smackdown brackets. For the ppv match also, go back to a 5 v. 5 elimination match. The shows before the ppvs could be a mixture of all kinds of singles, tag, six man, etc. Just makes sense playing into the history of that ppv with the team captains, etc. Would be a perfect chance as well to play with the interpromotional match up for Survivor Series, much like the Rumble match has both brands.

 

In terms of a typical round robin style, I think during an off month one of the brands should try it to lead to a number one contender or better yet, if they ever decide to vacate a world title. Have a bunch of the round robin matches on free TV with the finals on a ppv. I thought they were intially going to do this with thr 5 or 6 guys wanting a title shot on Smackdown right after Mania, but it turned out to be whatever the hell that was.

[Dandy 0]

Are you guys actually trying to tell me that a round robin tournament where there are differing points awarded or subtracted depending on the outcomes of the matches used as a way to crown a champion of a vacant title, or determine the number contender for a title is better than the current WWE idea of an over the top battle royale?

 

 

 

END OF SARCASM

 

Edit: Wow, way to make that unreadable! I changed the sentence structure so you wont have an aneurism when you read it.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I don't like the idea of a Round Robin tournament by itself, but I do like it as the qualifiers for a bigger single-elimination tournament, like the World Cup. Have a bunch of different brackets with 4 or 5 wrestlers in each and the winner of each one advances to the final tournament on PPV. It would work well for KOTR, but it would require too much planning for this creative team.

 

One thing that I hated from the Starrcade tournament was the point system. It should be 3 pts for a win (by any means), 1 for a draw, and 0 for a loss. Nothing more complicated than that.

[Guest news_gimmick]

It would work, with enough thought and effort put into the booking and such, and could be entertaining and original. Now think about the company we are talking about. I watched a hotdog eating contest, a music showdown, countless backstage segments, and maybe 15 minutes or so of actual wrestling last night. After watching that crap from a mindless and idiotic company, you then realize why Meltzer and Cornette felt that way.

 

Tom

[Dangerous A 0]

I'd also throw in a 15 minute time limit too as that has lots of booking possibilities with the points and whatnot.

[Precious Roy 0]

it would require too much planning for this creative team.

 

We have a winner

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Just bring back KOTR, since that's something people actually want.

 

I think a round robin type tournament could work as a good "end of the year" type thing. Maybe have the finals at Armageddon or something. It could be as a bragging rights type of thing, where the winner is declared the "best wrestler in the WWE" or something. Of course, it might be a problem being so close to the Royal Rumble, but maybe it could liven things up a bit.

[Dangerous A 0]

I was actually thinking it should take place right after the May PPV and end by July to hype Summerslam. It'd sort of be like a summer classic that culminates at Summerslam. Rumble leading to WM should be left in tact. This should spice up the summer heading into the fall.

 

Or it could be used in place after Summerslam during the fall to lead into Survivor Series.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Oy.... this is from my blog, dated February of last year...

 

Note: this is a straight copy/paste job, and is part of a bigger piece of work.

 

SURVIVOR SERIES:

 

Thoughts of Survivor Series will begin the DAY AFTER WRESTLEMANIA. The idea being a Smackdown vs. Raw Surivival Tournament that will begin 4 weeks BEFORE Survivor Series.

 

A point system is put in place beginning after WM and running until the Tourny starts. Throughout the rest of the year, the point system is not used.

 

Point System:

 

2 = Win

-1 = Loss

4 = Title win

3 = Title retention

-3 = Title loss

-2 = Title shot loss

 

-2 = No Contest

 

There are 28 weeks or so between WM and 4 weeks before Survivor Series. Those 28 weeks would be broken up into four 7 week sections. Each wrestler would start at zero points at the beginning of each section and would be required to wrestle 20 matches. That includes house shows, television, and PPV. If they wrestle more, then those after 20 do not count. If they wrestle under 10, their points are DQed. Wrestling between 10 and 20 gets you the points for those matches plus 1 extra point for every match under 20 that you completed. This is my version of a "grading curve" and to help give some of the others a bit of an advantage.

 

Now, at the end of each period, the wrestler with the most points in each brand is made a team captian and will not be able to wrestle for points in the other sections. That way, each section will have 2 leaders (1 from each brand) for a total of 8 leaders. Those leaders will then choose their team members.

 

So there will be 8 teams of 4 members leading to 2 weeks before the PPV. That week, the 8 teams will have four Survival style matches and the four winning teams will go to the PPV and have three more matches.

 

Raw vs. Raw, Smackdown vs. Smackdown…and the finals are Raw vs. Smackdown with the winning team getting bragging rights and something else.

 

The four winning team members will have a fatal four-way contest before the Royal Rumble for the Number 30 Spot. The four losing team members will have a mini-tournament before the Rumble…with the losers of the first two matches facing off, and the loser of that match gets the Number 1 Spot. Going into the Royal Rumble, the #1 and #30 spots will be known, everything else will be random.

 

Rankings will be shown at the end of every show to keep the viewer reminded for that particular brand. This point system will make championship meaning more, and wins and losses would mean more as well.

 

If a wrestler would go on a winning streak or start jumping up the rankings, the announcers could easily mention it, so that when the wrestler finally lost or won a title it would be a bigger deal.

 

There ya go. I think I posted it here once before as well.

 

Edit: I know that around the time I wrote this, a second wrestler won the Rumble from number one...but I think that it would be a great way for someone to win the 30 spot and win the Rumble. Nobody's ever done that to my knowledge and might lend credibility to that spot, even if it is sort of a copout.

[Guest Coffey]

I was thinking more along the lines of three points for a win, one for a draw and zero for a loss.

[Guest Brian]

Back about four years ago when I was doing fantasy booking, I pitched that idea for cruiserweights. Basically a 2-1-0 point system. The idea would be to not only give the the cruisers a spotlight and let them develop storylines, but also to push the house show business.

 

If the WWE put the effort into it, it would work. One to two featured matches a week, a re-cap, and the announcers pushing it. Not only would it require the creative team, it would require the wrestlers and agents to book match storylines and finishes with weight to them as well as intese, and announcers to be smart and knowledgable of everything.

 

Starting from scratch will require a ton of effort. But it has huge upside. It places value on wins and losses. It gives a lot of wrestlers direction. You can afford to job "name" guys at certain points to those who need a push. And if headed towards a title, it puts a lot of importance on said title and gives it some legitimacy. That upside looks like something they could spend a motnh or two planning out in advance for.

[slabinskia 0]

After I got into watching all japan,I thought about how the wwf had enough good tag teams in the late 80s to do their own real world tag league.They had

 

hart foundation

buldogs

rockers

brainbusters

demolition

islanders

rougeous

killer bees

powers of pain

strike force

 

There was potential to have tons of great matches with those teams.A rwtl would have been cool.

[Dandy 0]

Just as an aside on the subject of tag teams, I would like to have Bischoff eventually strip the Superheroes of the belts. As he does it, he makes an announcement that one month from then he will hold the first ever "McMahon Cup" (or another big name in wrestling), and the winners get the tag titles plus a huge monetary sum. The reason for him to the tournament would be to attract a big number of tag teams to hopefully revamp the division. Giving everyone a month before the tournament would give people time to find a partner and get used to wrestling with them.

 

So there's one more tournament style angle I would like to see.

[iggymcfly 0]

I'm someone that generally likes the entertainment side more and isn't as into ringwork, but even I see nothing but positives for a round-robin tournament.

 

It basically just takes every match and makes it seem more interesting and meaningful. I thought that it would have worked best in the old Smackdown six days back when they were really trying to emphasize that Smackdown focused on wrestling, but it would be a positive in almost any environment.

 

There's two things they need to do for it to work however. First, they need to make it meaningful. If the prize for winning all your matches is being the "captain" of a team, the fans are just going to shit on it. Secondly, they need to keep the titles as the top focus of the show since they carry it whether there's a round robin tournament on or not.

 

I think the best way to do it would be to run dual round robins leading into Summerslam on whichever brand doesn't wrestle at Vengeance. The "top six contenders" on the show all wrestle each other leading into the PPV, with the top two then facing each other for the right to not only get a title shot, but to "main event Summerslam" which can be built up as being very prestigious as well. Meanwhile, the next four or five wrestlers can have their own round robin, but for a shot at the US/IC title.

 

This would be a great way to fill out Heat or Velocity if they were still around, and if they were, you could probably go with the full six men, but since they will apparently be gone by next year, you'd probably have to abbreviate things a little. Anyway, this way, it would give one brand a focus while the other brand promotes their PPV and also build up the titles long-term since there was so much effort to attain them.

 

It would also set up feuds with people screwing each other out of matches to affect their own standing, and would build up the secondary title-holder enough to be able to compete for the World Title by the time the next PPV rolled around.

[slabinskia 0]

I was thinking of doing fantasy booking for a wwe/f champion carny and real world tag league.I would start from 1987 when they had the most tag teams and do each year up to now.Anyone interested ?

[zyn081 0]

Yeah, it sucked for the AWA because they had like next-to-no talent left.  With a roster the size of the WWE, they could have 4 captains picking teams of 8-10 people, and then putting together a schedule according to each captain's ranking of their picks.

 

Team A would have have their #1 wrestle Team B's #1, and their #2 wrestle team C's #2, and their #3 guy wrestle Team D's #3 (and so on and so forth).  Maybe throw in the occasional tag or 6-man tag match for variety.  Have the teams with the best records (most points) meet up in a PPV or "Clash of the Champions"-style free TV supercard, with the entire roster for those teams facing off in a series of matches. 

 

Maybe say the winning team splits $1,000,000, which would explain why heels and faces would be willing to work together.

 

Plus, this could springboard to feuds after the Team Challenge Series is over.  (e.g. say JBL is one captain, and his team wins it all ... he might say that one of his wrestlers, say Shelton Benjamin, didn't do enough in his matches to deserve his portion of the winnings ... bam, instant feud.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats sounds a bit too complicated for causal fans to me.

 

Just bring back KOTR, since that's something people actually want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would love to see it back. Id reorganise the PPV calender. Have the Big 4 of WM, KotR, SurSer and RR, with 2 ppvs in between each. Id have SummerSlam as the International PPV of the year. With it taking place between the 2 brand's summer PPVs. They can rotate it round the world: London, Rio de Janerio, Tokyo, Sydney and Johanesburg.

 

Oy....  this is from my blog, dated February of last year...

 

Note: this is a straight copy/paste job, and is part of a bigger piece of work.

 

SURVIVOR SERIES:

 

Thoughts of Survivor Series will begin the DAY AFTER WRESTLEMANIA. The idea being a Smackdown vs. Raw Surivival Tournament that will begin 4 weeks BEFORE Survivor Series.

 

A point system is put in place beginning after WM and running until the Tourny starts. Throughout the rest of the year, the point system is not used.

 

Point System:

 

2 = Win

-1 = Loss

4 = Title win

3 = Title retention

-3 = Title loss

-2 = Title shot loss

 

-2 = No Contest

 

There are 28 weeks or so between WM and 4 weeks before Survivor Series. Those 28 weeks would be broken up into four 7 week sections. Each wrestler would start at zero points at the beginning of each section and would be required to wrestle 20 matches. That includes house shows, television, and PPV. If they wrestle more, then those after 20 do not count. If they wrestle under 10, their points are DQed. Wrestling between 10 and 20 gets you the points for those matches plus 1 extra point for every match under 20 that you completed. This is my version of a "grading curve" and to help give some of the others a bit of an advantage.

 

Now, at the end of each period, the wrestler with the most points in each brand is made a team captian and will not be able to wrestle for points in the other sections. That way, each section will have 2 leaders (1 from each brand) for a total of 8 leaders. Those leaders will then choose their team members.

 

So there will be 8 teams of 4 members leading to 2 weeks before the PPV. That week, the 8 teams will have four Survival style matches and the four winning teams will go to the PPV and have three more matches.

 

Raw vs. Raw, Smackdown vs. Smackdown…and the finals are Raw vs. Smackdown with the winning team getting bragging rights and something else.

 

The four winning team members will have a fatal four-way contest before the Royal Rumble for the Number 30 Spot. The four losing team members will have a mini-tournament before the Rumble…with the losers of the first two matches facing off, and the loser of that match gets the Number 1 Spot. Going into the Royal Rumble, the #1 and #30 spots will be known, everything else will be random.

 

Rankings will be shown at the end of every show to keep the viewer reminded for that particular brand. This point system will make championship meaning more, and wins and losses would mean more as well.

 

If a wrestler would go on a winning streak or start jumping up the rankings, the announcers could easily mention it, so that when the wrestler finally lost or won a title it would be a bigger deal.

 

There ya go. I think I posted it here once before as well.

 

Edit: I know that around the time I wrote this, a second wrestler won the Rumble from number one...but I think that it would be a great way for someone to win the 30 spot and win the Rumble. Nobody's ever done that to my knowledge and might lend credibility to that spot, even if it is sort of a copout.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Again, sounds way too complicated to me. Plus, your emphasing WM and the RR way to much, its as if everything revolves around and is linked to them.

 

I would personally book it like this, given the current PPV calander. Id have 2 round robin tournaments. 1 starting the night after JD leading up to SS, the other starting the night after SS leading up to SurSer.

 

The 1st will be a singles tourney. Have the GMs pick 8 superstars or whatever number they can fit in. Each of the brands will be either side of bracket and will be further split into 2 bands of 4 respectively, with 4 wrestlers in of the prelimanary bands, with the top 2 going into the qualifying band. The winner of the brand's bracket will face the winner of the others brand's bracket at SS, the prize: a title shot at the brands next PPV. Id make it 2 points for a win, 0 for a time-limit draw and -1 for a loss. If you want, have the top 2 in the qualifying band face off at the start of SS, then hyping up the fact that they have already fought for odd number of minutes. Imagine if the final is draw.

 

The 2nd would be to decide the make-up of the brand's team for the interpromotional match-up at SurSer. Have 12 number of wrestlers face off agsainst each other per brand. Retain the same point system. Top 5 make the team. Those who survive on the winning team face off against the brands champion at the next PPV.

 

Champions are exempted from both tourneys, and have to defend their titles as normal.

[Guest TysonTomko420]

No i doubt it could. I think there should be more tournaments but signle elimination. I dont really understand what you mean by Round robin though.

 

They should have a huge 64 man tournament at some point.

[iggymcfly 0]

The 2nd would be to decide the make-up of the brand's team for the interpromotional match-up at SurSer. Have 12 number of wrestlers face off agsainst each other per brand. Retain the same point system. Top 5 make the team. Those who survive on the winning team face off against the brands champion at the next PPV.

 

Actually, that's kind of a neat idea. If the winning team from Survivor Series all got a title shot inside of an Elimination Chamber or something, it would make it more interesting to the casual fan. The problem would be keeping the PPV schedule up in the air, but if they just waited on their posters, there's no reason they couldn't have the winning brand work Armageddon and the losing brand work No Way Out.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, one big problem is that a round robin tourney hasn't ever drawn the few times in the US it's been done. The previously mentioned AWA series helped kill the promotion, though they were basically finished by that point anyway. From what I have read the AWA team challenge thing was so convoluted and hard to follow that nobody cared who won.

 

Starrcade 89 was the NWA/WCW show that had those round robin singles and tag tourneys. That show tanked big time and led to the ouster of Flair and Ross from the booking committee.

 

The biggest problem with round robin tourneys is one major question: What is really on the line here? I mean the Road Warriors edged the Steiners by 5 pts. in that Starrcade 89 tourney, while Doom had ZERO points. By 1990 Doom held the world tag titles, so there was really no significance to their horrible showing. I don't even remember who won the singles tourney, probably Sting.

 

It isn't a terrible idea, but there'd need to be something tangible at stake (singles winner gets world title shot, tag team winner gets tag shot). Also the rules and point system needs to be clearly understood by the audience.