What would be the best creative team possible?

[Guest *KNK*]

Chris Kreski wasnt a wrestling fan, all he worried about was creating the stories and let Patterson and co. handle the wrestling aspects.

 

The writers dont have to have a "history" with wrestling, just talent at writing.

 

Great writers create characters and stories, no matter the setting.

 

Which is why naming Paul Heyman, Cornette, Russo, Foley and all these other old timers is HORRIBLE idea.

 

All those names are trapped in another world long gone.

 

What would ultimately shake things up for good is a fresh mind who isnt blurred by politics and history in the business.

 

I'd perfer a talented writer with GOOD credentials over some 80's booker whose philosophies are outdated or another washed up old timer.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Chris Kreski wasnt a wrestling fan, all he worried about was creating the stories and let Patterson and co. handle the wrestling aspects.

 

Kreski worried about more than just creating stories. He had a series of flow charts and boards set up that let him see who had feuded with who, who could and could not team due to past conflicts, etc. He paid attention to the little details like that so you didn't have so many huge logic gaps. Kreski often doesn't get the due he deserves, because people focus so much on was on the roster at the time, and don't look at the little details that Kreski did that made things make more sense.

 

The writers dont have to have a "history" with wrestling, just talent at writing

They should be fans of wrestling, though, and have at least followed it for some length of time so they know something about it.

 

Great writers create characters and stories, no matter the setting.

 

That is the same trap Vince and co fall into time and time again, thinking a great writer in soaps or comedy can make a great writer in wrestling, and we've seen the results of that for years now. Wrestling is a unique and totally different creature to anything else, and you simply cannot pluck good writers from one genre, place them in wrestling, and expect them to write great wrestling. The people writing the wrestling have to have had some sort of connection to wrestling, whether it's having a history in the business, or being a fan of it for some time.

 

Which is why naming Paul Heyman, Cornette, Russo, Foley and all these other old timers is HORRIBLE idea. All those names are trapped in another world long gone.

 

Because having people, Russo aside, who have a track record of knowing what theyre doing is so bad(!). Heyman and Cornette have two of the best minds in wrestling, of this or any other era, and to dismiss them out of hand for being 'trapped in another world long gone' is beyond absurd, Sure, some of the things they've done in the past might not work today, but that's where you sit them down and and work with them on adapting anything that they've done that doesn't work now into something that does work now. Yes, people trapped in the past probably shouldn't be part of a current wrestling product, but when you've got two of the best minds in wrestling, who can and will learn, and who you can get up to speed on what's happening in the current scene, the very last thing you do is dismiss them out of hand.

 

I'd perfer a talented writer with GOOD credentials over some 80's booker whose philosophies are outdated or another washed up old timer.

 

So you'd just cast them aside and not bother to get them up to speed to where they can help you. just because they're 'old'?

[justcoz 0]

Whoever said Triple H and Kevin Nash is a botched lobotomy patient.

 

That was me and I hate to break this news to you but this company is going to be HHH's at some point within the next ten to fifteen years, barring a Stephanie break-up scandal, which I think HHH is wise enough to avoid. He has a good wrestling mind and I'd be interested in seeing what he could do creatively when he isn't worried about putting himself over in the star role. I'd like to see him, with his admiration and respect for old school booking, work creatively with other talent, beyond his own storylines and feuds. I think you may see some good stuff.

 

I can understand your criticism of Kevin Nash based on his WCW tenure but if you read any Kevin Nash interview, especially the recent Torch Talks, this man has a pretty damn good mind and understanding of the business. He's friend with HHH, HHH would be doing old school style booking and Nash would be injecting a coolness factor with the characters, humor, semi-shoots, etc. I think it would work and it would be a nice rival to a Heyman led team.

 

I understand that Chris Kreski wasn't a fan of wrestling but he is thus far, in about five or six years, the only outside writer that had any level of success. I would look at him as an exception to that idea. And by paying attention to details like he did with the flow charts and boards - he was learning elements of the business and how it worked. These other writers, even Gerwitz and Lagana, who have been there for years, don't follow this method which is why we see such terrible loopholes in stories. This should be something that a "wrestling guy" the likes of Heyman or Cornette needs to show these guys.

 

Nobody is arguing that a good writer can't produce a good wrestling product but wrestling isn't Deadwood or The Shield and they obviously don't seek out that caliber of writer for the company. It's also questionable as to whether that caliber of a writer would want involved with WWE. Also booking wrestling is a thing of it's own, it doesn't have the same pacing as any other weekly series. So even if there was good storytelling and character development there still has to be an understanding of traditional wrestling booking. Unless you just completely change the structure of the business. As long as it's building this feud, leading into this match, moving onto this feud, leading into this match, there has to be a wrestling guy involved IMO.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hunter and Nash both have good minds for wrestling. Their problem is they almost only use their minds to benefit themselves to the detriment of the company they work for.

[RedJed 0]

Whoever said Triple H and Kevin Nash is a botched lobotomy patient.

 

I can understand your criticism of Kevin Nash based on his WCW tenure but if you read any Kevin Nash interview, especially the recent Torch Talks, this man has a pretty damn good mind and understanding of the business. He's friend with HHH, HHH would be doing old school style booking and Nash would be injecting a coolness factor with the characters, humor, semi-shoots, etc. I think it would work and it would be a nice rival to a Heyman led team.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First, the HHH crap is purely subjective to him actaully working with an unbiased opinion on workers, the product, etc. And I hate to break it to you, but I dont think that will EVER happen. So why the fuck would you want him in creative? I think only a select few wrestlers could really work in a creative structure, and HHH is most certainly on the bottom of that list. Where has anything shown he actually would know what he's doing?!!!!

 

As far as Nash, I read the Torch Talks and I fail to see where the hell you are decifering this guy has a great mind after reading them. This is the same guy who said Rey Jr should be pushed hard because girls want to fuck him and Benoit should not because of that same reasoning. Did you fail to miss that part? He also felt, if he was booker for this years Mania, he would have done a run-in for HHH saving the title to cause a DQ. Yeah, there's a great booking mind there (note sarcasm). Nash does not, to me, emphasize "coolness" in any way, shape, or form currently. His booking tenure in WCW should speak for itself!!! Unbelievable ANYONE would actually think he would be a smart choice for a creative team, that just boggles my mind.

 

Also, for any of you who think Tommy Dreamer should write - have you read the results and opinions of people when he took over for Cornette temporarily in OVW? He singlehandedly fucked up the creative end of the company in only a month, giving Corny even more headaches when he returned.

 

For what its worth, I agree with alot of people who say Foley could do something strong. Alot of people in the business also seems to agree with that sentiment. I'd have him head one of the brands with Heyman, both as co-headwriters, as I think them bouncing ideas off each other might make for interesting TV and I think generally, they would work well together as there isnt any real heat or animosity. They would handle the main storylines and programs. Lets say they ran Raw - underneath them would be a person who lays out the matches more in detail (Heyman and Foley wouldnt be responsible for this) - a guy like Steamboat, DiBiase or even Laurintatus would work fine in this role. Foley or Heyman would just tell him the feel they want the match in general, as well as who they want to win and what the win is meant to accomplish. From that the road agent could lay out the context of the match as well as the finish. Also, have guys work on particular facets of the brand. If Raw had the womens division still going, keep Finley working with that - he could book it completely since its the undercard and he could also lay out the matches. A guy like Michael Hayes or Arn could man the tag division, booking the storylines and laying out the matches too.

 

I would like the other brand co-headed by Cornette and Bischoff. It may sound crazy but those two might put together something interesting. I think Bischoff, when you take all of the BS of the past out, deep down has visions of things that are unique and different for the future. He was a part of that Matrats league that didnt take off much, but that concept generally sounded so different that it might have worked under the right circumstances. And Cornette can still write just fine - I dont think anyone has disputed that his booking in OVW was crap other than the fact that WWE kept throwing things out there that he had to work around.

 

So this is kind of how I would line things up...

 

RAW: Foley and Heyman co-writers working with most storylines, promos and programs. Match layouts and finishes to most storylines and programs - Steamboat and Ric Flair. Assistant overseeing consistency in storylines, programs, promos and general logic/detail assistance to others - Laurintatus. Women's division booker/match and finish layout - Fit Finley. Tag division consultant/writer/match and finish layout - Michael Hayes.

 

Smackdown: Cornette and Bischoff co-writers working with main storylines and programs. Match layouts and finishes to most storylines and programs - DiBiase and Jake Roberts. Assistant overseeing consistency in storylines, programs, promos and general logic/detail to everyone - Jim Ross. Crusierweight division booker/match and finish layout - Dean Malenko. Tag division consultant/writer/match and finish layout - Arn Anderson.

[justcoz 0]

First, the HHH crap is purely subjective to him actaully working with an unbiased opinion on workers, the product, etc. And I hate to break it to you, but I dont think that will EVER happen. So why the fuck would you want him in creative? I think only a select few wrestlers could really work in a creative structure, and HHH is most certainly on the bottom of that list. Where has anything shown he actually would know what he's doing?!!!!

 

I think he would work just fine in the creative structure when he stops seeing himself as a performer and worrying about his own agenda or main event positioning. You may think that is unlikely to happen but I think it will happen once he realizes that due to his positioning he will likely spend the remainder of his life as one of the leaders of this company, inheriting part of the operations with his wife. Now, I don't know what type of business man HHH is. I don't know what his credentials are like with office work. I do however know from what I've read that he lives and breathes the business. He watches tape after tape and seeks out more tapes.

 

So I'm assuming, with all of the wrestling he's consumed, that he's learned a thing or two on the booking/creative aspect and this would be his niche with the company as years go on. And I think, for the most part, HHH's programs, specifically with Batista and Orton, were successful because he knows what he's doing - not Brian Gerwitz, Michael Hayes or Stephanie McMahon - he knew how to get heel heat and he knew how to make those two guys look better than they actually were. Batista looked like the next Hogan or Goldberg when programmed opposite HHH. Now he looks like a metrosexual Warlord.

 

Let's put it this way, when it comes to the McMahon family, I'd rather see HHH in a creative capacity as opposed to Stephanie McMahon, who I think they should be grooming for Linda's current role.

 

As far as Nash, I read the Torch Talks and I fail to see where the hell you are decifering this guy has a great mind after reading them. This is the same guy who said Rey Jr should be pushed hard because girls want to fuck him and Benoit should not because of that same reasoning. Did you fail to miss that part? He also felt, if he was booker for this years Mania, he would have done a run-in for HHH saving the title to cause a DQ. Yeah, there's a great booking mind there (note sarcasm). Nash does not, to me, emphasize "coolness" in any way, shape, or form currently. His booking tenure in WCW should speak for itself!!! Unbelievable ANYONE would actually think he would be a smart choice for a creative team, that just boggles my mind.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd question Nash's involvement in the creative team as well but I'd still like to see what he's capable of. Especially working with HHH and Vince McMahon. Specifically Vince because Kevin Nash didn't exactly have Vince McMahon when he was booking WCW. I think there is a potential for him in a booking/creative role that hasn't been tapped yet. As far as the "guys want to be them/girls want to fuck them" analogy that he shared in the Torch Talks, if you look beneath the surface of the apparent absurdity of the statement to a smart fan, there is truth to what he's saying. Rey Mysterio has a coolness factor - to adults, children, men and women. Chris Benoit is cool to smart fans and the casual fan that likes there wrestlers to be gritty, that's all. Chris Benoit will be over to an extent for being Chris Benoit and having the matches that he does but he will never be over in the same way that an Austin, Rock or even Mysterio is. There won't be a mass demand for Chris Benoit merchandise. He's just a good wrestler and there is a spot for him on the card, a spot for him and wrestlers like him to entertain, a world title reign out of respect but does that draw money? That's all Nash was saying.

 

I don't necessarily like the fact that Nash is obsessed with big guys in top spots but I think even he realizes that cruisers and that style were part of the reason for Nitro's success and Shawn Michaels was a little guy that had the "it" factor.

 

I missed the part with his proposed Wrestlemania finish but if his line of thinking was that Batista wasn't ready and needed more time to work with HHH to get to the next level, I'm okay with it. Wrestlemania, the show itself, with HBK/Angle, Hogan, Cena winning the title, etc. wouldn't have been any less with one world title DQ finish.

 

I agree with you in regards to Foley/Heyman working together and I'd also add Court Bauer to that list. Dreamer is there only because he works closely with Heyman and I don't think you can fully judge him on being hurridly rushed into a creative substitute role in OVW.

 

The Bischoff/Cornette combo is intriguing but I think Cornette in any main creative capacity in WWE is entirely unlikely. Not only due to recent events but also the fact that he doesn't like to fly and prefers travelling by car. I believe Bischoff has a creative mind that Vince could definitely use, despite his past faults in WCW in regards to losing guys like Austin, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie. I think he was just a victim of arrogance and success at that point but the fact that Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, the luchas, etc. had spots in the top U.S. company, tells me that he had a good vision of what he wanted his product to be.

[King Cucaracha 0]

If HHH had nothing to do with the in-ring side of things, I'm sure he could do a good job. Same with someone like Dusty, with some supervision.

 

The worst booking decisions have nearly all come from people using ideas to further their own careers. Putting someone on board who's active has to be a big no-no, and those on the booking team can't be a part of storyline either. McMahons included. Having friends who are active can't be helped, so they have to make sure they take notice of that too.

[Guest Coffey]

Paul Heyman

Jim Cornette

Eric Bischoff

Vince McMahon

[King Cucaracha 0]

It'd help if they got along too.

 

Unless you had, say, Heyman booking RAW and Cornette booking Smackdown to create some real brand competition.

[Guest Coffey]

Them not liking each other is why it would work.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

That was me and I hate to break this news to you but this company is going to be HHH's at some point within the next ten to fifteen years, barring a Stephanie break-up scandal, which I think HHH is wise enough to avoid.  He has a good wrestling mind and I'd be interested in seeing what he could do creatively when he isn't worried about putting himself over in the star role.  I'd like to see him, with his admiration and respect for old school booking, work creatively with other talent, beyond his own storylines and feuds.  I think you may see some good stuff.

 

What does the fact that Triple H will run the company someday have to do with coming up with the best creative team possible? I hate to break it to you, but he will never stop putting himself in the star role as long as he's wrestling.

 

If he had a good wrestling mind, he would know how to keep his own character interesting.

[justcoz 0]

That was me and I hate to break this news to you but this company is going to be HHH's at some point within the next ten to fifteen years, barring a Stephanie break-up scandal, which I think HHH is wise enough to avoid.  He has a good wrestling mind and I'd be interested in seeing what he could do creatively when he isn't worried about putting himself over in the star role.  I'd like to see him, with his admiration and respect for old school booking, work creatively with other talent, beyond his own storylines and feuds.  I think you may see some good stuff.

 

What does the fact that Triple H will run the company someday have to do with coming up with the best creative team possible? I hate to break it to you, but he will never stop putting himself in the star role as long as he's wrestling.

 

If he had a good wrestling mind, he would know how to keep his own character interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The fact that he will one day run the company is EXACTLY the reason why he needs to be on the creative team and learning the creative process. That is the only reason why Stephanie still has her job in creative. And I think it's blatantly obvious right now that Stephanie is not the member of the McMahon family to creatively take over for Vince some day. Shane isn't interested from most reports so this leaves only HHH unless you want to wait 21 years for Shane's son. I've made it fairly clear that I'm including him on creative as the end of his active wrestling career, or at least limited wrestling, although I'm sure he'll have a Mr. McMahon type on camera role.

 

Okay, so he's not part of your best creative team. Well then.... that solves it! He will have absolutely no say in the direction of the creative process, including his character. He won't be sitting in on creative meetings and neither he, Steph, Vince or Linda McMahon will want his character pushed. He won't touch a title or a main event. Just like now, you know, since he's not currently on the creative team!!!!!

[RedJed 0]

That was me and I hate to break this news to you but this company is going to be HHH's at some point within the next ten to fifteen years, barring a Stephanie break-up scandal, which I think HHH is wise enough to avoid.  He has a good wrestling mind and I'd be interested in seeing what he could do creatively when he isn't worried about putting himself over in the star role.  I'd like to see him, with his admiration and respect for old school booking, work creatively with other talent, beyond his own storylines and feuds.  I think you may see some good stuff.

 

What does the fact that Triple H will run the company someday have to do with coming up with the best creative team possible? I hate to break it to you, but he will never stop putting himself in the star role as long as he's wrestling.

 

If he had a good wrestling mind, he would know how to keep his own character interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The fact that he will one day run the company is EXACTLY the reason why he needs to be on the creative team and learning the creative process. That is the only reason why Stephanie still has her job in creative. And I think it's blatantly obvious right now that Stephanie is not the member of the McMahon family to creatively take over for Vince some day. Shane isn't interested from most reports so this leaves only HHH unless you want to wait 21 years for Shane's son. I've made it fairly clear that I'm including him on creative as the end of his active wrestling career, or at least limited wrestling, although I'm sure he'll have a Mr. McMahon type on camera role.

 

Okay, so he's not part of your best creative team. Well then.... that solves it! He will have absolutely no say in the direction of the creative process, including his character. He won't be sitting in on creative meetings and neither he, Steph, Vince or Linda McMahon will want his character pushed. He won't touch a title or a main event. Just like now, you know, since he's not currently on the creative team!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Few points here.....

 

1) Just because he is going to likely be a sigificant part of the operations in the future doesnt by default mean he should be on the creative team. By that same token, all of the McMahon family then should be a part of it also. As the guy before you said, the fact that he holds stroke in the company does not mean he should be on creative. It makes no sense.

 

2) Do you honestly think that if it was Stephanie out and HHH in a creative team process, the result would be different? They're one of the same.

 

3) Regardless of his future stature within the company, the fact of the matter is he's always held a bias toward certain guys and how do you think that will change with him just being out of an active spot on the roster? This is similar to Vince having a hard-on for big men - he has his biases, and clearly so does HHH. Neither Vince or HHH being creatively involved is, when it comes down to it, really good for business if they hold those biases above what the general public want, etc.

 

4) Do you know HHH basically IS in all of the creative meetings anyway and has been for some time now? I wasnt sure if you were being sarcastic with the last comment that he's currently not on the creative team meetings, because rest assured, taking time off or not, your bet your ass he probably is in some way, shape, or form. As long as Stephanie is a part of them, so is he inversily as, natually, he probably knows everything about what is going on THROUGH her.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You can't just get any good "writer" for the show, you need to get a _show-runner_ that has proven to have written great characters, with great storylines and plot twists. Someone who has taken a genre and gone beyond it. A Joss Whedon, a Shawn Ryan, a Daniel Knauf, a David Milch, a JJ Abrams. And then you pay them a profound amount of money to retool your show. Enough money that not only pulls them away from "regular" television, but also forces them to take wrestling seriously since their paycheck depends upon it (throw in some added incentives).

 

Being a wrestling fan is of little consequence. I doubt many of the writers above were big "fans" of their genres growing up. However, as great writers do, they will do the proper research into the genre. I doubt Milch knew the history of deadwood like we know the history of the WWE title before writing his show. The schmucks that write for the WWE probably don't do that, and the WWE doesn't think of getting them to do that. Besides, it's not the genre that is where the interest is - because a great show is universal. You take the characters and storylines from The Shield and put them in the setting of Deadwood, and it would work. You put them 500 years in the future like in Firefly and it would work. You put them in a wrestling ring and it would work. Their true interests do not have to be in wrestling, they have to be in themes.

 

Cornette and Heyman, while great minds for wrestling, can't give the WWE what it needs. They'll write good wrestling shows, but they won't write good television shows. They won't write to bring fans in, and that's what the WWE needs. They have already formed their opinions on what wrestling is - that will never change. They have developed bad habits - that will never change. Their best writing, THEIR BEST WRITING, can't TOUCH Deadwoods worst. It's play-school. And wrestling isn't that different - if it was, then they wouldn't be losing fans. Those fans haven't turned off their television when they stopped watching the WWE. In terms of house shows, as a business, yes wrestling is different - there are much more marketing opportunities there. But that has little to do with the creative team and the creative direction of the shows.

 

But if you want to stay in the 90's and the 80's, creatively, and never see where wrestling can go in this decade, then go right the fuck ahead. Continue living in that box and see where it gets you.

[RedJed 0]

While I somewhat agree with you, some of the best hollywood TV writers, no matter how great their credits were or are currently - MAY have a hard time going into the world of pro wrestling. Its never a given. It's such a different formula and there are way more variables to consider writing/booking a wrestling show than just a hollywood drama or whatever. People can read and research the past and current stuff all they would want to, but unless you have a storied history of the operations (operations that, to us hardcore fans, may seem common knowledge but to others, are fucking way out there) it's going to be just that much harder to make it work. We're basing juggment on the importance of having good hollywood writers seemingly on the example of Chris Kretski, who I have heard differering opinions if he was a wrestling fan beforehand or not, he may have been a complete diamond in a field of stones.

 

Plus how many hollywood writers HAS WWE gone through? We may all be surprised - I hear stories in the Observer about this person and that person that got canned, released, etc over and over. Some of these writers may have been top notch in other writing avenues and the wrestling thing just did not "click" for them.

 

Someone mentioned a guy like Barry Blaustein. I'd be curious what/if he could do creative-wise, I have to admit.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Have you SEEN the credentials of their writers? Their head RAW writer for a long time - Brian Gertwitz - wrote for BIG WOLF ON CAMPUS. The WWE doesn't attract the kind of guys I'm talking about. However, anyone can be bought, and I think it would be a smart investment by the WWE. These are the kinds of writers who take pride in their work, who have a reputation of putting out great shows, and they're getting paid a gigantic amount of money - I can't see how anyone would take it lightly. Plus, the publicity alone may attract some interest.

 

This, in no way, is the current WWE-approach. They get hollywood writers because they want to be a credible television show, not because they want high level script, characters, and storylines. That, since their writers are qualified, it can't possibly be the creative departments fault for the decline in ratings or the bad television.

[CanadianChick 0]

Speaking of the writing, I'm pretty well sick of comedy that isn't funny and is plain juvenile. I mean, the humour isn't intelligent in the slightest. I don't think that WWE should go Frasier or anything (that's considered intelligent humour, right? I can never get my sitcoms straight...), but putting a bit of an IQ on their comedy would help them greatly.

 

1) You wouldn't have people embarrassed to watch the product. This includes smarks, marks, casual fans, not yet fans, or anyone just flipping the channels and stopping on Raw because it looks interesting. This crap with Visera, Jillian Hall and the like has to stop.

 

2) The audience won't feel that WWE is insulting their intelligence. I know, I know, a lot of fans are rednecks who would be hard pressed to have their intelligence insulted, but the last thing WWE should do is expose that. If the product is more sophisticated and smart, the fans feel smart watching it. When you serve for the lowest denominator, that's all you're serving to. When you serve to a higher denominator, you're serving to them and everyone below that. It's really simple logic. An idiot redneck won't turn off the TV if an angle is too intelligent for him, because really, he still gets to see that bad guy face that good guy.

 

All that being said, I think RRR's idea is terrific. I would love to see rounded characters that are similar to people you meet in your everyday life, but just stripped down to animal instinct (as in solving their problems in the ring rather than with words and lawyers). We do need something drastically different, as every boom did. We've been in Attitude for 8 years nearly, and it's getting old.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I imagine Steph sees wrestling as being camp, so that justifies to her the low-brow, often absurd (but not in any humourous way - more "silly" than anything), comedy.

[CanadianChick 0]

Or she's just plain not funny and tries to cover it up with silly gags and kid humour. And people say it's only guys that have too much of an ego to admit when they suck at something...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Oh come on, she clearly got those breasts as a joke.

[CanadianChick 0]

Now that punchline sure didn't work for her, did it?

 

Here's a question to throw out there: which humour would be better suited for WWE, assuming both are done to their best ability: everyday humour (much like sitcom humour) or gag humour (think Family Guy here). I think everyday humour, because the gag humour was DX's thing, and that was back in '97.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Good Wrestling comedy is more slapsticky and visual than anything else, which is different from gag and "joke" humour (though Family Guy often incorporates slapstick in their shows).

[CanadianChick 0]

With that in mind then Rudo, any examples, in let's say the last 5 years, of what is good wrestling comedy? Or what would be good wrestling comedy right now?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Mdogg20 vs. Colt Cabana at a UWA Hardcore show a few months back was one of the funniest matches I've ever seen. Here's my review:

 

Last match of the night was THE match of the night. One of the funniest matches I've seen, Colt Cabana vs. MDogg20. Lots of comedy spots, most I haven't seen before. Very impressed with CC's live charisma. Some guy yelled out "bor-ing" and Cabana quickly said "Fuck-You", thus prompting a "Fuck you!" chant from the crowd. The worst thing I can say about this match was that the crowd did the dueling chants thing... like, for most of the match. God that's bad. So fucking bad. Especially when there are people who say both names. The best spot of the night IMO was when Cabana and MDogg did a cradle pin spot all around the ring and the ref was following them trying to count it - when it was eventually broken up (maybe a dozen rotations around the ring?) they all stood up and all fell back down dizzy (including the ref). So much good stuff in this. Hell, it may be my MOTY, certainly my live MOTY. I really, really enjoyed it. It was the only thing that got a good pop out of me the whole night.

 

I thought the Midget spot on Vis on Monday was hilarious. The "punch punch punch punch punch *gets tired* *takes a breather* *goes back at it*" was good wrestling, physical comedy. Not necessarily because he was a midget and Vis was fat -which was the objective of the match- but because taking a time out in wrestling is funny in its own right.

[Angle-plex 0]

I definetly agree with the midget vs Vis comedy thing. I enjoyed it - it was something different. It was a fun little match that the crowd could enjoy without expecting these guys to bring psychology, spots, or meaning to the match (they couldn't even if they tried, so they didn't). I remember reading about post-RAW matches, just for the live audience, that seem to incorporate this same kind of humor. They should really try to put some of that into their shows more often instead of having the same basic match four/five times a night with different workers involved.

[Guest Rrrsh]

I think it was a fuckin waste on RAW. They gave us very little wrestling to begin with, dont waste the matches on that. If there is lots of matches, fine. But they decided to go promo heavy, so that shit needs to stay on Heat.

 

It would have been perfect on Heat

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Along the Wrestling Humor line:

 

One unintentional (I think) humorous spot happened at the Raw that was in Philly recently, as in the post show Dark Match, Shawn Michaels' pants ripped, and Triple H went to take up the whole with duct tape.

[justcoz 0]

That was me and I hate to break this news to you but this company is going to be HHH's at some point within the next ten to fifteen years, barring a Stephanie break-up scandal, which I think HHH is wise enough to avoid.  He has a good wrestling mind and I'd be interested in seeing what he could do creatively when he isn't worried about putting himself over in the star role.  I'd like to see him, with his admiration and respect for old school booking, work creatively with other talent, beyond his own storylines and feuds.  I think you may see some good stuff.

 

What does the fact that Triple H will run the company someday have to do with coming up with the best creative team possible? I hate to break it to you, but he will never stop putting himself in the star role as long as he's wrestling.

 

If he had a good wrestling mind, he would know how to keep his own character interesting.

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The fact that he will one day run the company is EXACTLY the reason why he needs to be on the creative team and learning the creative process. That is the only reason why Stephanie still has her job in creative. And I think it's blatantly obvious right now that Stephanie is not the member of the McMahon family to creatively take over for Vince some day. Shane isn't interested from most reports so this leaves only HHH unless you want to wait 21 years for Shane's son. I've made it fairly clear that I'm including him on creative as the end of his active wrestling career, or at least limited wrestling, although I'm sure he'll have a Mr. McMahon type on camera role.

 

Okay, so he's not part of your best creative team. Well then.... that solves it! He will have absolutely no say in the direction of the creative process, including his character. He won't be sitting in on creative meetings and neither he, Steph, Vince or Linda McMahon will want his character pushed. He won't touch a title or a main event. Just like now, you know, since he's not currently on the creative team!!!!!

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Few points here.....

 

1) Just because he is going to likely be a sigificant part of the operations in the future doesnt by default mean he should be on the creative team. By that same token, all of the McMahon family then should be a part of it also. As the guy before you said, the fact that he holds stroke in the company does not mean he should be on creative. It makes no sense.

 

2) Do you honestly think that if it was Stephanie out and HHH in a creative team process, the result would be different? They're one of the same.

 

3) Regardless of his future stature within the company, the fact of the matter is he's always held a bias toward certain guys and how do you think that will change with him just being out of an active spot on the roster? This is similar to Vince having a hard-on for big men - he has his biases, and clearly so does HHH. Neither Vince or HHH being creatively involved is, when it comes down to it, really good for business if they hold those biases above what the general public want, etc.

 

4) Do you know HHH basically IS in all of the creative meetings anyway and has been for some time now? I wasnt sure if you were being sarcastic with the last comment that he's currently not on the creative team meetings, because rest assured, taking time off or not, your bet your ass he probably is in some way, shape, or form. As long as Stephanie is a part of them, so is he inversily as, natually, he probably knows everything about what is going on THROUGH her.

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Yes, I know that HHH currently sits in on creative meetings and that entire last paragraph was sarcasm. And no the entire McMahon family doesn't sit in on creative but look at your options for the future. Stephanie has had about six years on creative and hasn't generated one big money or ratings producing angle. She's again best served learning Linda's role. Shane has no interest in creative. Vince is aging, very much out of touch and someone has to fill his spot and it's a given that they'd want someone from the family.

 

We can sit here and name fantasy creative teams but the bottom line, whether that list includes HHH's name or not (and I'm the only one including him I believe) is that he will have direct involvement with whatever creative team there is. It's a given due to his position with the company. So you can sit here and act like I'm out of my mind for including him on my creative team list, not to mention other members of the Clique, but he's already on the creative team as it is and as long as he's married to a McMahon, he always will have at least a filtering role in the process.

 

The difference maker is because of his knowledge of the wrestling business and it's history, because of his fascination with the "art", that he's more qualified to oversee or be a legitimate part of a creative team than Stephanie. This is the point I've been trying to make all along. It would be wiser to have someone that looks at the business as Flair vs. Funk or Steamboat, the Horsemen and Harley Race as opposed to Steve Austin beer baths and Sexual Chocalate Mark Henry.

 

You can have Barry Blaustein on creative, and I'd actually very much like to see that, but HHH is going to have a role. Right now, the primary focus of that role is his own agenda. His own main event positioning. For all we know, he can have A LOT to contribute to character development and the undercard, if there was a change in focus from his own agenda to that of the company of itself. And at some point this will come to be. He can't wrestle forever and his role in the family guarantees the likelihood of him being an important part of the creative process in the future.

[Guest Y2DAYDAY]

First of all, Vince has to be in charge. He is the most successful wrestling promoter EVER and ultimately, when the next big thing comes around, he goes all the way with it(Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.). Without Vince in charge, things would get much worse fast.

 

One problem is they have too many TV/Hollywood writers right now. I think they just hired 8 writers that are not familar with the business at all.

 

I think guys like Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman, Dusty Rhodes, etc, former bookers in previous periods, should not make it past consultants. Before people go crazy about Heyman, he was head Smackdown writer when Smackdown was great in late 2002, early 2003 but most of that was due to the workers on Smackdown at the time putting on great matches, many of who ended up on the shelf as a result. Everybody needs to remember who the top heel on Smackdown was when Heyman was head writers. Yes, Heyman was the top heel, along with whoever the WWE champ was, the guy he was managing at the time, whether it was Show or Angle. Heyman was head writer leading into the least successful Mania in years headlined by 2 Smackdown matches, Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle and Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon, which alone with no RAW matches, should have been worth at least 700,000(they totally dropped the ball on Lesnar vs Angle). Enough on Heyman, he's out.

 

Out of all of the TV writers they have, Brian Gewirtz is the best. Look how shitty RAW has been since he left. Basically, as bad as everyone thinks Gewirtz is, all of the other writers are that much worse.

 

HHH needs to be involved but mostly only with his own programs. He let the writing team book the Orton program and they botched it so him and Vince layed out the ENTIRE 8 MONTH Batista program and yes, it led to big money.

 

In short, they need a couple TV writers to come up with skits and promos for bad talkers but they need a mix of TV people and wrestling people. And ultimately, once Vince lays out the top programs, they should just let the top guys figure out most of the stuff .Use the writers as idea men and let the top talent figure out the rest.

 

Like heading into Mania 20, Chris Jericho layed out his own program with him, Trish, and Christian. Mick Foley layed out his own program with Randy Orton. And HHH layed out the whole program with HBK that led into the program with HBK and Benoit. All were successes. HHH even elevated Shelton Benjamin, or at least made him a name(he didn't elevate him to the top tier or even a main eventer but he elevated him from tag wrestler to upper mid-card babyface in one match). Too bad Shelton couldn't run with the ball at that point.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

*snip*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, Vince has to be in charge. He is the most successful wrestling promoter EVER and ultimately, when the next big thing comes around, he goes all the way with it(Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.). Without Vince in charge, things would get much worse fast.

 

Unfortunately, while Hunter is around, even with Vince there, you'll be unlikely to get the next big thing reaching anything close to Austin, etc, levels, because as soon as he sees them as a threat, Hunter cuts their legs off.

 

Out of all of the TV writers they have, Brian Gewirtz is the best. Look how shitty RAW has been since he left. Basically, as bad as everyone thinks Gewirtz is, all of the other writers are that much worse.

 

Even if Gewirtz was the best writer they have, he's still the shits. He can write great toilet humor, but that's about it.

 

Heyman was head writer leading into the least successful Mania in years headlined by 2 Smackdown matches, Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle and Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon, which alone with no RAW matches, should have been worth at least 700,000(they totally dropped the ball on Lesnar vs Angle). Enough on Heyman, he's out.

 

Whether Heyman or anyone else is the head writer for one program, Stephanie is the head of both writing teams, and Vince is the one who has final say. The credit or blame for anything ultimately lies with him.

 

He let the writing team book the Orton program...

 

The Orton program was Hunter's idea and his baby. Hunter doesn't let anyone write his stuff but Hunter.

 

Too bad Shelton couldn't run with the ball at that point.

 

Too bad he was never given the ball to run with in the first place.