Ultimate C**** S***?

[Sass]

In my mind almost all the Ultimate stories are ripoffs of what they did in the past.

 

WHAT?

 

When did a schizophrenic hippie Thor ever fight the Avengers?

 

When did Hawkeye ever watch his entire family get brutually murdered by a clandestine hit squad?

 

When did the Hulk ever tried and executed after killing hundreds of people?

 

I do not see your point at all.

 

 

People like to give such huge props to Millar's the Ultimates.  While it is an interesting read it won't hold up at all.  You have Bush as president and within 6 years the story will seem to dated.  Also a reference to Shannon Elizabeth makes the series already seem so yesterday.  When is the last time you have heard her name mentioned?

 

While I agree its annoying, the use of pop culture references is entirely too trivial a thing to distract me from the plot, characters, or art. A few minor references to celebrities isn't enough to make me hate the entire series.

 

Besides, the books are being published in the year 2005 for people in the year 2005 to read. Who cares if parts of it seem dated when you reread it in a few years? Nobody bitches about reference to Reed Richards serving in WW2, Rick Jones being a 1970s folk singer, Peter Parker going to the original SNL, or Flash Thompson getting drafted to Vietnam. People just ignore those parts, and remember the parts of the story they liked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But, that wasn't really pandering through the use of pop culture. It was part of their origins.

 

At some point though, the origins will need to be "updated" so the heroes don't seem out of place or "too old" for new readers to get into.

[Guest JMA]

At some point though, the origins will need to be "updated" so the heroes don't seem out of place or "tool old" for new readers to get into.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think if the 616 Marvel Universe were ever rebooted, the origins would involve genetic engineering rather than radiation. Radiation was a hot topic back then just like genetic engineering is now.

 

As for updating characters, I do wonder what's going to happen to the JSA in the near future. Having them be WW2 era heroes is only going to make things worse as time goes on. I just hope that this problem can be fixed without erasing them from existence.

[Sass]

Yeah, that's also another reason why using pop culture stuff for guys' origins is *not* a good idea in the long run unless someone wants to revamp the character and their origin. I think it's just lame going back and rewriting the history of characters since it cheapens their back issues.

 

It worked out for Captain America after he came back out of suspended animation but Iron Man's origin will definitely need to be altered from Vietnam-related to something else more modern (which it already has been in the new Ellis Iron Man book).

[Guest JMA]

In regards to Captain America, I'd like to see a story (it could be out of continuity) where he was created in today's world--to fight terrorism.

[Sass]

In 30 years, I could see Marvel doing that with Cap.

[Guest JMA]

In 30 years, I could see Marvel doing that with Cap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh. Yeah, you're probably right.

[Vampiro69]

DC has always had trouble dealing with the JSA and their age issues. That is why they were at one time sent off to limbo to fight in the Ragnarok. However they brought the JSA back. Soon the JSA age issue was causing troubles again and they were aged or killed during Zero Hour to write them off.

 

I stopped reading comics for 10 years after the spide clone fiasco, so I am not sure exactly how they brought back the JSA.

[Mecha Mummy]

Personally, I trust Bendis not to fuck this up. He's good with continuity, and stuff like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For real???

 

That is one of the biggest misconceptions I have read here all year. Bendis is anti-continuity and ignores everyone elses work aside from his own.

 

The New Avengers #2 jail break saw a lot of dead guys alive and kicking...like the Purple Man. JasonX can give his two cents here...I hope.

 

But, wow, Bendis...good...with continuity...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Purple Man had come back long before New Avengers #2. It was in something like X-Man #34 according to some checking on Google. And a couple of the other guys (such as Mandrill) had randomly come back to life before they showed up in New Avengers.

 

And it was actually brought up later on (like issue #6 or something) that like a fourth of the people in the prison place were legally dead or missing, but I think that's more Bendis covering up for a mistake he was called on than anything else.

[SuperJerk]

In my mind almost all the Ultimate stories are ripoffs of what they did in the past.

 

WHAT?

 

When did a schizophrenic hippie Thor ever fight the Avengers?

 

When did Hawkeye ever watch his entire family get brutually murdered by a clandestine hit squad?

 

When did the Hulk ever tried and executed after killing hundreds of people?

 

I do not see your point at all.

 

 

People like to give such huge props to Millar's the Ultimates.  While it is an interesting read it won't hold up at all.  You have Bush as president and within 6 years the story will seem to dated.  Also a reference to Shannon Elizabeth makes the series already seem so yesterday.  When is the last time you have heard her name mentioned?

 

While I agree its annoying, the use of pop culture references is entirely too trivial a thing to distract me from the plot, characters, or art. A few minor references to celebrities isn't enough to make me hate the entire series.

 

Besides, the books are being published in the year 2005 for people in the year 2005 to read. Who cares if parts of it seem dated when you reread it in a few years? Nobody bitches about reference to Reed Richards serving in WW2, Rick Jones being a 1970s folk singer, Peter Parker going to the original SNL, or Flash Thompson getting drafted to Vietnam. People just ignore those parts, and remember the parts of the story they liked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But, that wasn't really pandering through the use of pop culture. It was part of their origins.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WHAT?

[Guest JMA]

DC has always had trouble dealing with the JSA and their age issues.  That is why they were at one time sent off to limbo to fight in the Ragnarok.  However they brought the JSA back.  Soon the JSA age issue was causing troubles again and they were aged or killed during Zero Hour to write them off. 

 

I stopped reading comics for 10 years after the spide clone fiasco, so I am not sure exactly how they brought back the JSA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have to wonder what the situation will be like in ten years. I suppose their adventures could be retconned to the fifties or sixties, but the JSA seems to be forever tied to WW2.

[Vampiro69]

I say within the next 5 years Geoff Johns will somehow be the person who attempts to retcon the JSA. Don't let it be Loeb though, he would blow at it.

[SuperJerk]

Ever notice how Magneto's age during the Holocaust just keeps getting younger and younger?

[Bruce Blank]

Also, it seems to me that the Suicide Squad was done 20 years prior based on the same premise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Say what??

 

the Suicide Squad and the Ultimates have one thing in common - the government connection, and even that's two different takes on it

 

the rest? in no way, shade or for are they the same

 

I'm curious to what aspects you think are the same in the Suicide Squad and the Ultimates books cause I don't see it

[Vampiro69]

Well it is the fact that they are government sponsered teams. The fact that it is villians and a few heroes in the story make it more interesting since they have to trust each other.

 

But look at it this way some people like Bud Light and some like Miller Lite. Nothing wrong with liking either of them since you end up getting the same result. Satisfied.

[SuperJerk]

The fact that it is villians and a few heroes in the story make it more interesting since they have to trust each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If you want to compare Ultimates to something, compare it to Stormwatch.

[Bruce Blank]

Villains in the Ultimates? shady guys maybe, not so squeaky clean as their 616 counterparts

 

but villains?? I don't see that

 

Stormwatch I can buy, the Squad I can't

[Vampiro69]

I was talking about the Squad not the the Ultimates. I am not knocking Ultimates though, it is a good read but I don't think it is as great as everyone says it is. That is all I am saying.

[Sass]

Super villains help make a book and it's character interesting to read.

 

The Ultimates has had no such villains in it's books sans for the Ultimate X-Men team-up where Magneto nearly took the entire team down.

 

The Grey Hulk, the Skrulls and the Russian rejects do not count. They're just villain fodder like most of the bad guys the Punisher faces. They have no staying power (or interesting dimensions to them).

[SuperJerk]

I was talking about the Squad not the the Ultimates.  I am not knocking Ultimates though, it is a good read but I don't think it is as great as everyone says it is.  That is all I am saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, you were comparing the two books and defending why you thought they were similar.

 

If you want to change the subject mid-paragraph with no explanation, don't get pissed when people think you're still talking about the same thing.

[Vampiro69]

yeah sometimes my writing does suck.

[Guest JMA]

I wouldn't mind seeing some classic Avengers villains in The Ultimates. We'll probably see Ultron debut in the near future (his creation was hinted at).

[Dr. Zaius]

I wouldn't mind seeing some classic Avengers villains in The Ultimates. We'll probably see Ultron debut in the near future (his creation was hinted at).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since Pym was already seen trying to use the invention of Ultron and the Vision ("Wanda, were you flirting with that robot?") to get himself back into the Ultimates, so technically he already debuted.