The Evolution of the WWE Viewing Audience

[notJames 0]

And the winner of this bout: Jobber of the Week!

 

Man, if this is an example of the (d)evolution of the WW_ viewing audience, I'm going the way of the dinosaurs. And for the record, the guys I watch PPVs with are more or less smarks, but for all the bitching we do during the shitty parts, we still have fun without the benefit of making fun of the marks.

 

Funny story: there was this one point during the Hogan/HBK match where Hogan's white hair was sticking up in different directions, much like Doc Brown in Back To The Future, and one of my friends does his best Christopher Llloyd and yells out "1.21 gigawatts!!!" About 10 minutes later, when Hogan's face is all bloody and dripping, the same guy switches to Brad Pitt in Fight Club and yells out "You don't know where I've been, Lou!!!"

 

Good times.

[Guest Coffey]

Why would you register to a website message forum entitled THE SMART MARKS and then go on to try to "make a name for your e-self" by insulting "smarks." In other words, why would you register just to be in the minority and get banned for flame-baiting, flaming, etc.

 

When you try to make a point, and you throw in sentences like "you ignorant smarts wouldn't get it" your post suddenly loses all validity. You're verbally attacking a demographic that, up until that moment, didn't even acknowledge that you existed.

 

A "good" poster would establish himself with well written, thought out posts. He would argue points and counter points with common sense and back up his opinions and beliefs with, once again, well written and well thought out sentences. He wouldn't show up and start insulting people with poorly written, AIM chat style posts in his first twenty posts. That makes you seem like a troll and, most likely, you won't be unbanned long enough to make it to one hundred posts or three days. Whichever comes first.

[Guest deinly1]

Rather than attack your spelling like HTQ did, I'll address your points directly

 

instant respect can be earned with one performance in my mind and that was one of them. lesnar got respect for similar feats- even tho i marked for him during his debut with heyman

 

Lesnar got respect not just because he was strong, because there's a lot of guys in the locker room these days who are very strong, so many big men that the originals like Undertaker are starting to look medium-sized. The reason Lesnar became respected was because he learned a whole arsenal of big-man moves.

 

Too many big guys wind up being a Kevin Nash clone where they rely on endless clotheslines, sidewalk slams, and headbutts when in control of the match. Brock, at his peak, was hanging with Eddie Guererro and keeping up with him and not being exhausted or run out of moves.

 

even tho i know u smarks= critical losers (who couldnt        bench the bar        by itself)

 

There's a lot of boxing analysts and experts who aren't in the physique to brawl, you know.

 

then would he get any respect from the same y2JERKoffs who were booing cena simply to "go against the grain" because i know they wouldnt be cheering y2j as hard if he were facing lets say.... christian?

 

Who knows why the crowd was booing Cena, it probably didn't have anything to do with his wrestling skills, though. He was getting attacked by the crowd before he had a chance. Also, the same crowd exploded for Hulk Hogan later, and he makes Cena look like a wrestling god when it comes to credibility.

 

the thing that annoys me  about smarks is they thing they know EVERYTHING cuz they read dirt sheets and saw a lot of matches. overly critical of everyone who does things they could never do >period<

 

Do the hosts on ESPN look like serious athletes to you? Same thing. Roger Ebert isn't making movies but a lot of people want to know if he thinks a movie is good or not. Again, same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for an intelligent and considerate reply.

 

HTQ seems to have let his moderator status go to his head, by simply saying something along the lines of : "If you post here, people will respond to you if you type everything grammatically correct and spell check your post" HTQ would have gotten his point across without harm. He chose to insult someone whom he knows nothing about save for a few lines of "AIM style" chat. I dont like that and took offense, anyone with a spine would have done the same- newbie or not.

 

That is all I will speak about with regards to HTQ.

 

Now as for the replies to the context of my post:

1)Lesnar had a large variety of moves and certainly was not in a Kevin Nash mold, He was a collegiate wrestling d-1 champ what ,like 3 years in a row? I would have to say that, coupled with the fact he was freakishly strong( vertical suplex to the Bigshow) along with how quickly he learned the art of storytelling through a match is what gave him his credibility with the boys in the back so to speak. I dont think they respected him based solely on his strength, however doing what he did to a 500lb man is impressive nonetheless.

 

2)The crack about being able to bench the bar was in poor taste, but once again I defer to the comment made by HTQ which set me off. Larry Merchant and Burt Sugar are widely accepted boxing analysts and historians, so obviously I understand your point about not having to be a former anything in order to critique it.

 

3) With regards to the Y2J backers- Don't get me wrong, Y2J was very entertaining when he was still fresh, his gimmick itself is almost 6 years past due. I enjoyed his promos, but never cared much for his in-ring style ( yes I acknowledge he works well with the upper tier ring-technicians) but the mainstay of his offense just does not win me over.

 

4) I can see a dislike for Cena in most of the posts here. The intent of my original post was simply to examine exactly which points of his skills and gimmick people seem to be unamused by. I've liked him since the Halloween SD episode where he came out dressed as Vanilla Ice, that was hilarious, since that point he has been building steam for his first WWE title run. Now that he is finally the champ people want to turn on him? I don't get it, at least SOME of those guys booing him at SS had to like him during the point in which he was VERY over with everyone, my question is why?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

1)Lesnar had a large variety of moves and certainly was not in a Kevin Nash mold, He was a collegiate wrestling d-1 champ what ,like 3 years in a row? I would have to say that, coupled with the fact he was freakishly strong( vertical suplex to the Bigshow) along with how quickly he learned the art of storytelling through a match is what gave him his credibility with the boys in the back so to speak. I dont think they respected him based solely on his strength, however doing what he did to a 500lb man is impressive nonetheless.

 

A lot of that can be said about the people here. While some smarks have been cynical for so long that they wind up lashing at something without giving it a fair chance, this isn't a deadlifting competition so being able to move something really heavy isn't enough to earn any accolades. It's true of the business as a whole, look at Mark Henry if you don't believe it.

 

Y2J was very entertaining when he was still fresh, his gimmick itself is almost 6 years past due. I enjoyed his promos, but never cared much for his in-ring style ( yes I acknowledge he works well with the upper tier ring-technicians) but the mainstay of his offense just does not win me over.

 

I understand a lot of this. The "Y2J" thing really needs to be put to rest already, and his routine has watered down to typical WWE mid-carder stuff. He still has a lot of charisma, though, and that counts for a lot.

 

The intent of my original post was simply to examine exactly which points of his skills and gimmick people seem to be unamused by. I've liked him since the Halloween SD episode where he came out dressed as Vanilla Ice, that was hilarious, since that point he has been building steam for his first WWE title run. Now that he is finally the champ people want  to turn on him? I don't get it, at least SOME of those guys booing him at SS had to like him during the point in which he was VERY over with everyone, my question is why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, here's actually where we get into a pretty good issue that's been happening a LOT: Guys who have a lot of charisma but are forced into a mold by the writers.

 

Some net writer (CRZ, I think? Maybe someone else) once brought up a Diesel promo in the mid-90s where Nash got up in McMahon's face about his time as a champion. This was back when McMahon was an announcer and they were only just beginning to admit in the storyline universe that he was really the guy that pulled the strings at WWF. So, Diesel cuts this promo in the ring about how upset he was that Vince kept making him smile for the cameras, and the press. And how he wasn't a guy that was naturally going to smile, but Vince kept getting upset and telling him to.

 

There's a bit of art imitating life in this promo, because McMahon really does seem to like his fan favorite champions to smile and be all-around good guys. Their characters (which draw the fans in) suffer as a result. They slowly lose control of their character. And their character, in the case of Cena and Stone Cold and most of the best characters, are an extension of their own personality in the first place.

 

It happened with The Rock. He used to wear flashy shirts, complain at the crowd for finishing his catchphrases ("This ain't sing along with The Rock!") talk about himself like he was God's gift to women and the wrestling world, etc. He'd imitate and belittle his opponents. The "I DID IT.. FOR DUH PEOPLE.. I DID IT.. FOR DUH RAWWK" promo where he imitates Rikishi, Austin, Angle, and others is still priceless. But then Rock stopped wearing the fancy shirts, usually just wearing gym shorts and his latest shirt from ShopZone, and the Elvis sideburns went away. He started becoming more bland and became an all-around good guy.

 

I guess you could say he started smiling more. He became his old Rocky Maivia character with more catchphrases. His old character was unpopular because he was just a Good All-American Boy who smiled a hell of a lot, and people were sick and tired of that.

 

When he turned heel again in 2003 and started making fun of opponents (calling the Hurricane the Hamburgler) and telling the crowds to kiss his ass, he was more over than ever. Pretty soon he was back to smiling.

 

They did the same thing to Brock Lesnar once he won the WWE Champsionship from Angle, and now they're doing it to Cena.

 

John Cena's current gimmick was an extension of his own idea. That Halloween party you mentioned with the Vanilla Ice outfit, was allegedly his idea. The writers found out that he has a legitimate interest in rap and used that as an extension of his heel character, and with the right catchphrases and flashy moves, it looked like a sure-fire Austin or Rock character in the future.

 

But now they've watered it down.

 

When was the last time Cena gave a rap on the way to the ring? He used to be really disrespectful towards his opponents ("This ain't no three way dance, this is me servin' two bitches") and end his raps with one of George Carlin's Dirty Words, making a set up like"I just don't give a.." and then let the crowd say the unspeakable word for him.

 

Does he do that anymore? Not that I've seen. Those WORD LIFE knuckles are or were really popular, does he still use the brass knuckles anymore? I don't think he even uses "Word Life" or "Thuganomics" very much anymore. Only after the "Chain Gang" thing has been beaten to death in one night.

 

He's in smiling mode, just like Rocky & Brock before him.

 

So, basically, that's why Cena isn't so popular here as he used to be, and it's got a bit to do with crowds slowly turning on him. By the time Rock faced Hollywood Hogan at WM, he had been in Do-Gooder mode for so long that even having Hogan drive a Mack truck into his ambulance didn't get him any sympathy from fans.

[AndrewTS 0]

Just put deinly1 on Ignore. There's no point arguing with an idiot.

[Guest deinly1]

1)Lesnar had a large variety of moves and certainly was not in a Kevin Nash mold, He was a collegiate wrestling d-1 champ what ,like 3 years in a row? I would have to say that, coupled with the fact he was freakishly strong( vertical suplex to the Bigshow) along with how quickly he learned the art of storytelling through a match is what gave him his credibility with the boys in the back so to speak. I dont think they respected him based solely on his strength, however doing what he did to a 500lb man is impressive nonetheless.

 

A lot of that can be said about the people here. While some smarks have been cynical for so long that they wind up lashing at something without giving it a fair chance, this isn't a deadlifting competition so being able to move something really heavy isn't enough to earn any accolades. It's true of the business as a whole, look at Mark Henry if you don't believe it.

 

Y2J was very entertaining when he was still fresh, his gimmick itself is almost 6 years past due. I enjoyed his promos, but never cared much for his in-ring style ( yes I acknowledge he works well with the upper tier ring-technicians) but the mainstay of his offense just does not win me over.

 

I understand a lot of this. The "Y2J" thing really needs to be put to rest already, and his routine has watered down to typical WWE mid-carder stuff. He still has a lot of charisma, though, and that counts for a lot.

 

The intent of my original post was simply to examine exactly which points of his skills and gimmick people seem to be unamused by. I've liked him since the Halloween SD episode where he came out dressed as Vanilla Ice, that was hilarious, since that point he has been building steam for his first WWE title run. Now that he is finally the champ people want  to turn on him? I don't get it, at least SOME of those guys booing him at SS had to like him during the point in which he was VERY over with everyone, my question is why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, here's actually where we get into a pretty good issue that's been happening a LOT: Guys who have a lot of charisma but are forced into a mold by the writers.

 

Some net writer (CRZ, I think? Maybe someone else) once brought up a Diesel promo in the mid-90s where Nash got up in McMahon's face about his time as a champion. This was back when McMahon was an announcer and they were only just beginning to admit in the storyline universe that he was really the guy that pulled the strings at WWF. So, Diesel cuts this promo in the ring about how upset he was that Vince kept making him smile for the cameras, and the press. And how he wasn't a guy that was naturally going to smile, but Vince kept getting upset and telling him to.

 

There's a bit of art imitating life in this promo, because McMahon really does seem to like his fan favorite champions to smile and be all-around good guys. Their characters (which draw the fans in) suffer as a result. They slowly lose control of their character. And their character, in the case of Cena and Stone Cold and most of the best characters, are an extension of their own personality in the first place.

 

It happened with The Rock. He used to wear flashy shirts, complain at the crowd for finishing his catchphrases ("This ain't sing along with The Rock!") talk about himself like he was God's gift to women and the wrestling world, etc. He'd imitate and belittle his opponents. The "I DID IT.. FOR DUH PEOPLE.. I DID IT.. FOR DUH RAWWK" promo where he imitates Rikishi, Austin, Angle, and others is still priceless. But then Rock stopped wearing the fancy shirts, usually just wearing gym shorts and his latest shirt from ShopZone, and the Elvis sideburns went away. He started becoming more bland and became an all-around good guy.

 

I guess you could say he started smiling more. He became his old Rocky Maivia character with more catchphrases. His old character was unpopular because he was just a Good All-American Boy who smiled a hell of a lot, and people were sick and tired of that.

 

When he turned heel again in 2003 and started making fun of opponents (calling the Hurricane the Hamburgler) and telling the crowds to kiss his ass, he was more over than ever. Pretty soon he was back to smiling.

 

They did the same thing to Brock Lesnar once he won the WWE Champsionship from Angle, and now they're doing it to Cena.

 

John Cena's current gimmick was an extension of his own idea. That Halloween party you mentioned with the Vanilla Ice outfit, was allegedly his idea. The writers found out that he has a legitimate interest in rap and used that as an extension of his heel character, and with the right catchphrases and flashy moves, it looked like a sure-fire Austin or Rock character in the future.

 

But now they've watered it down.

 

When was the last time Cena gave a rap on the way to the ring? He used to be really disrespectful towards his opponents ("This ain't no three way dance, this is me servin' two bitches") and end his raps with one of George Carlin's Dirty Words, making a set up like"I just don't give a.." and then let the crowd say the unspeakable word for him.

 

Does he do that anymore? Not that I've seen. Those WORD LIFE knuckles are or were really popular, does he still use the brass knuckles anymore? I don't think he even uses "Word Life" or "Thuganomics" very much anymore. Only after the "Chain Gang" thing has been beaten to death in one night.

 

He's in smiling mode, just like Rocky & Brock before him.

 

So, basically, that's why Cena isn't so popular here as he used to be, and it's got a bit to do with crowds slowly turning on him. By the time Rock faced Hollywood Hogan at WM, he had been in Do-Gooder mode for so long that even having Hogan drive a Mack truck into his ambulance didn't get him any sympathy from fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

('')

 

You make some resoundingly true arguements.

Now that you mention those things about how Cena has put away those trademark "accessories", such as the pre-match diss raps, the knucks, hell, even the masterlock hanging from his chain is long gone. As for your points about how Rocky was watered down by Vince and the writers, I totally agree. I remember when his promos were absolutely vicious and had that heelish feel, the same is true of Y2J. I would gather from your post that you think Cena is going in the same directions as any other tweener who gets the full face treatment from the writers and Vince. I see exactly what you mean because the examples really proved your point, but I for one am not ready to give up on Cena yet, maybe I'm just loyal to a fault. But no one has really mentioned his in ring skills, which while well below the level of an Eddie Guererro, I dont think his offense is entirely contrived. After all, at SS when he reversed Y2J into the FU position while standing on the second turnbuckle- I was on my feet. Since Cena can still have a decent promo now and then and is so young, I wouldnt mind if the fans reactions to him in the coming months forced a heel turn. It worked for Rock as u mentioned ( even tho they had him smiling again soon after). Perhaps I misunderstood the negative reactions to Cena, those who booed him at SS could actually end up helping his character. In the same vain, I enjoy watching Randy Orton whether he is heel or face.

 

As for Mark Henry- another good example of how strength isn't what makes a great wrestler, he had very little charisma and was hard to like. I tend to "mark out" for incredibly difficult maneuvers or all kinds when I watch wrestling. To me there is nothing quite as exciting as a match like Rey vs Eddy at SS, personally I would rather dominick went into Eddie's custody( but that is a topic for another thread) , but I was on the edge of my seat even though there were a few blown spots. Blown high spots in a ladder match can lead to serious injury and that is why those moves which were both difficult and dangerous make me entertained.

 

The evolution of the WWE audience is what we are talking about here. I watched in the Hogan era- my first memories of wrestling are of watching Hogan slam Andre in front of 90 thousand in the Silverdome. During the time from about 90 to 98 I was not interested in wrestling at all, and it took watching a late night ECW telecast on public access TV to bring me full circle. Main event players like Hbk and Bret's styles never caught my eye. When the main eventers became Stone Cold and The Rock I was hooked and tried to see all of thier matches which I had missed. The top tier guys they push now are not as good, but still show alot of promise, I just haven't become disenchanted with the business again yet. It could happen but it would take alot more than them ruining Cena or Orton or Angle or Benjamin or Batista or Eddie or Rey or Benoit or London ( as u can see by my favorite wrestlers, most of them possess either great charisma or great physical abilities.) I'm really waiting for RVD to make his return and get a very strong push for the heavyweight gold but even if they screw him up and take away the carte blanche he has during the ECW ONS promo there are still a dozen guys who entertain me enough to keep watching.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

hell, even the masterlock hanging from his chain is long gone.

 

Ah, I forgot about that one.

 

I would gather from your post that you think Cena is going in the same directions as any other tweener who gets the full face treatment from the writers and Vince.

 

Sort of. Sad as it is to say, I think they're turning Cena into a younger, edgier Hulk Hogan. In 2003 I was saying the guy had the ability to become the next Rock because he sort of lived his gimmick, but they've seperated the two and he's becoming a pure gimmick now. Winning matches against a stacked heel deck unless they cheat to win, going on about doing it for the fans, etc etc. This all seems familiar. As far as I can tell this "Chaing Gang Soldier" stuff is just "Hulkamaniacs" with a new name.

 

I think at this point the best thing they can do for him, to put him back on track, is run top guys through him until they find someone who works best with him, and have him drop the belt to that person, and begin "the chase." Basically find a guy who the crowd will buy as his rival for some time.

 

Bring back his old persona along the way as he goes on a quest for vengeance against whoever it turns out to be who takes the belt away. This is what they did with Rock and Austin, who were fighting each other all the way back when both guys were at IC Belt level. By the time that Rock threw Austin's WWF Title belt into the river, like Austin had done to Rock's IC belt so long ago, the feud was stuff of legend.

 

The Cena/JBL chase that led to his title win didn't do this, because JBL is only as good as his opponent and because they really only had a month to chase, Bradshaw was busy with Big Show just the month before. The high-point of the feud was when a title belt was blown up with dynamite in a trash can? That's not a very good feud.

 

So Cena needs a guy that people will want to see him struggle back to fight with and he needs to evolve to his original theme. I don't think Kurt Angle is the right villain, because he always looks like a goofball in the end and Cena looks smarter than him in promos even when Angle is ahead in the score. The search continues.

 

After all, at SS when he reversed Y2J into the FU position while standing on the second turnbuckle- I was on my feet.

 

His match was Jericho was pretty sound as far as WWE match territory goes. The bulldog into an F-U reversal was very fluid but not realistic (he couldn't see where Jericho was but scooped him up and spun him into position?), and that's kind of the best you can ask for right now unless the match is some combination of Angle, Michaels, or Benoit.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the negative reactions to Cena, those who booed him at SS could actually end up helping his character.

 

It's how Hogan managed to survive the 1990s without ending up as forgotten. The fans got tired of 12 years of being told to take their vitamins, so they bridged that into "Well screw the fans, brother!"

[cabbageboy 0]

You guys are looking at this too hard. The main problem Cena has is that his character simply isn't babyface material. Let's face it, how many people really like a wigger street punk? I mean really, he's the sort of guy in HS you'd want to beat the shit out of. This made him an effective heel, but I knew once he turned face it would get watered down. It wasn't that noticeable on Smackdown because he wrestled guys nobody could possibly like: JBL, Carlito, Dupree, Suzuki, etc. In other words he didn't really feud with much of anyone with credibility among wrestling fans.

 

Now he's on Raw and feuding with some guys who are longtime favorites, like Jericho and Angle...guys who are seen as having paid a lot more dues than Cena (although in Angle's case this might not be true, given his immediate push).

 

I agree with deinly about the RVD thing, it'll be interesting how his responses compare with Cena. Regardless of how RVD is booked there are fans that are fiercely loyal to him....if he's booked at all decent he could be the most popular guy on Raw.

[Guest deinly1]

So Cena needs a guy that people will want to see him struggle back to fight with and he needs to evolve to his original theme. I don't think Kurt Angle is the right villain, because he always looks like a goofball in the end and Cena looks smarter than him in promos even when Angle is ahead in the score. The search continues.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If not Angle, perhaps this could be the reason to build up Shelton and give him the run at the WWE strap? Which we both know won't happen anytime soon, HHH wil probably come back and decide that it's his turn again. =/

 

As for cabbage's comment about RVD- I wouldn't make the assumption that they will book Rob as well as we would hope (ECW TV champ style) , but after his recent promos at ONS and Raw, we at least have hope his mic will be unscripted.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Let me guess: The basis for this feud is Benjamin turning heel and saying that he's sick and tired of a white man stealing his peoples spotlight. JR and The King will appear to be offended at Sheltons comments while dropping race-baiting lines during commentary that offend Coach who isn't allowed to talk during the matches.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

RVD's mic skills are atrocious. Why would you hope for him to have mic time?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Atrocious is pretty harsh. Not good is the phrase I'd use. His stoner ECW promos were quite fun at times.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Which he won't be doing in WWE.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Probably not, no. A Stoner RVD vs CM Punk xXx feud would be interesting, if only for the promos.

[Guest deinly1]

I dont know if your referring to RVD's WWE 3 word vocabulary promos or his old school ECW shoot promos.

 

When he's allowed to say whatever he feels I personally like his style and also happen to think he's pretty smooth. Thing about that is, when he says what he feels it usually involves 4:20, and even though to me it's no worse than showing necrophelia I don't think the WWE will go for it. Even though on a RVD shopzone t-shirt I saw the phrase " Nobody gets HIGHER". Hypocritical?

 

As for the feud suggestion with Shelton and Cena- That sounds pretty likely that they would set it up that way, even though having Cena turn heel would be more fun and allow the announcers to put over Shelton more.

[cabbageboy 0]

Eh, if they were going to do that sort of feud why not sign Ron Killings? At least he is experienced at these race baiting angles. Him feuding with Cena is a natural anyway.

 

Van Dam's mic skills in WWE aren't a big problem...it is the character he is playing. They took him WAY too much in the laid back direction. See, the brilliance of his ECW promos lied in him being so confident in his ability, like "Jerry, the people know I beat you...YOU know I beat you" and all that.

 

Even with this watered down character RVD has had quite a few gold moments on the mic in WWE. How about the hilarious bits with Austin ("I've never heard your watch")? Or the "Is there a dressing room big enough for my star persona?" Or the hilarious promo with Kane where he said "Kane can do the chokeslam, then I'll do the rolling thunder, the Van Daminator, the Van Terminator, the 5 Star Frogsplash, and Kane can do...the chokeslam!"

 

Besides, there are other ways to convey a guy's personality. How about a sitdown interview with JR? How about broadcasting some of this wild shoot stuff he does on the radio?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Yeah, see, there's a problem.

 

All of that would get him more over then certain wrestlers who would rather not be named.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think that there could be some serious money in an RVD/HHH feud, if both guys were willing to play ball. It always blew my mind that they never did anything with the events in the Elimination Chamber where RVD damn near killed HHH, I suppose because RVD was a face and HHH a heel.

 

The main problem is that it would inevitably call for HHH to job at some point and I doubt he'd do it. But just imagine them showing footage of RVD radio interviews where he shoots all over HHH, saying basically that he's an asshole and the "least likely guy to be found at RVD's pool."

 

A part of me thinks that Van Dam has been working with those comments...they remind me too much of his ECW prodigy chats where he'd stay semi in character and just trash everyone in hilarious fashion.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I think that there could be some serious money in an RVD/HHH feud, if both guys were willing to play ball.  It always blew my mind that they never did anything with the events in the Elimination Chamber where RVD damn near killed HHH, I suppose because RVD was a face and HHH a heel.

 

The main problem is that it would inevitably call for HHH to job at some point and I doubt he'd do it.  But just imagine them showing footage of RVD radio interviews where he shoots all over HHH, saying basically that he's an asshole and the "least likely guy to be found at RVD's pool."

 

A part of me thinks that Van Dam has been working with those comments...they remind me too much of his ECW prodigy chats where he'd stay semi in character and just trash everyone in hilarious fashion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Methinks you haven't seen Unforgiven 2002 that saw HHH end Robby's push as a title contender.

[Guest deinly1]

From what I have had the opportunity to read out of RVD's prodigy chats- they were hilarious. And like u both mentioned, we all know HHH was unwilling to work with him in the past, however if when they both return -especially with the promos RVD has been given the chance to do, I think a feud with Trips is inevitable (sp?).

 

As for Ron the Truth , they underused him when they had him, and if they brought him back to battle rap Cena that would be cool seeing as how they both have mic skills. Killings is great in TNA because they dont censor his moveset as much as the WWE seemed to have done.

[Guest deinly1]

double post sorry

[claydude14 0]

I don't have much to comment on the thread but I'd just like to say that I'm impressed with deinly1 for taking all the criticisms he was handed and went on to have an intelligent discussion with proper grammar and all. Good for you to move past the flaming and add to the discussion, kudos.

[Guest deinly1]

I don't have much to comment on the thread but I'd just like to say that I'm impressed with deinly1 for taking all the criticisms he was handed and went on to have an intelligent discussion with proper grammar and all. Good for you to move past the flaming and add to the discussion, kudos.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you, after 2 posts I realized getting into a flame war would be silly, and JobberoftheWeek chose to further the discussion with me so I just responded with the best grammar I could so not to look so foolish again. I may still know shit about wrestling compared to the people on this board but I'm here to learn.

[cabbageboy 0]

I actually don't think Unforgiven 2002 ended RVD's potential in the title scene at all...if anything that show itself SHOULD have led to rematches given the screwy Flair heel turn. At the time I wasn't enormously upset about it because I thought (logically) that "RVD will now trash Flair at the next PPV, then get a rematch at Survivor Series."

 

Given the recent shoot nature of Raw why not let RVD do some shoot style promos a la his Barely Legal one? Cena's shelf life as a face is going to prove limited I think (SS against Jericho was the first rumblings of fans turning against Cena) and RVD is really the only other guy on Raw who could get a consistently good face reaction.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

RVD would offer Cena a joint, Cena hesitates, says that he gets high off his music. Crowd boos. Cena looks like Richard Nixon does on The Simpsons when he gets booed in the Duff Debate against Kennedy. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

RVD's absolutely last chance was when he fought Shawn for the World Title. When he was treated like an afterthought there, it was the equivalent of Jericho's last stand against Michaels at Wrestlemania XIX. Sure, he had been buried repeatedly before then, but that was the straw that broke the camel's back and he never got anywhere close to that level of credibility again.

 

Even if RVD got pushed again now, it is too late, just like with Jericho for Summerslam. He's been crushed so many times that nobody will buy him as a serious threat anymore. Even if they like him, they will just assume he will lose, because that's what he's always done. Even if he wins the title, people would just assume it was a fluke. It's too late. HHH really did a good number on him.

[cabbageboy 0]

After having seen WM 19 RVD got off lucky compared to poor Booker though in the HHH burial dept. At least he didn't have to endure HHH making offensive racist remarks and then have to job to the Pedigree (after a 20 second sell period of course).

 

RVD has a couple things going for him that Jericho didn't. 1. He's been hurt and off TV, thus whatever jobbing he was doing before that is long forgotten. 2. Unlike Jericho there is somewhere to go with RVD, since he's never won the world title. Jericho and Benoit are both guys who have blatantly gotten their one run with the title and have been booked like lesser stars since. With RVD they can do a nicely edited package detailing all the various times he came oh so close to the title but was somehow denied (skipping over the various tag team stuff the past 2 years). Hell they could even go back as far as ECW in 1999 when he was supposed to face Taz for the title, but Taz left, then he was supposed to face Awesome, but Awesome left (and RVD got injured). Then mention some of the things like him seemingly beating UT for the title but Flair restarted the match, then Flair costing him the HHH match. Nothing really showing him jobbing clean mind you, so no No Mercy 2001, although maybe mention him beating Austin in a non title match.

 

This would be a really great angle I think, but it would have to end in something like HHH agreeing to job in a title scenario, and I dunno if that is realistic.

[Guest deinly1]

RVD has a couple things going for him that Jericho didn't.  1.  He's been hurt and off TV, thus whatever jobbing he was doing before that is long forgotten.  2.  Unlike Jericho there is somewhere to go with RVD, since he's never won the world title.  Jericho and Benoit are both guys who have blatantly gotten their one run with the title and have been booked like lesser stars since.  With RVD they can do a nicely edited package detailing all the various times he came oh so close to the title but was somehow denied (skipping over the various tag team stuff the past 2 years).  Hell they could even go back as far as ECW in 1999 when he was supposed to face Taz for the title, but Taz left, then he was supposed to face Awesome, but Awesome left (and RVD got injured).  Then mention some of the things like him seemingly beating UT for the title but Flair restarted the match, then Flair costing him the HHH match.  Nothing really showing him jobbing clean mind you, so no No Mercy 2001, although maybe mention him beating Austin in a non title match.

 

This would be a really great angle I think, but it would have to end in something like HHH agreeing to job in a title scenario, and I dunno if that is realistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

True.

We have all seen wrestlers come back from injury to re-invent thier characters, remember the American Bad Ass gimmick UT came back with? As for showing RVD coming close to the title but never actually winning it- I don't know if that would hurt more than it helped. I think all they have to do in order to re-tool Rob's image is to allow him to be the same wrestler he all but promised to be if you recall his last 2 promos with WWE at ONS and Raw's cabana. His hardcore fans will believe he will win and retain the world title in a manner similar to his almost 2 year run with the ECW TV strap, not to mention he will get over with new fans who don't remember 97-99.

 

That's just my opinion about RVD, I admit I'm biased towards him in the same way I am towards the Rock and SCSA, if only because those 3 brought me back to thinking wrestling could be exciting again.

[Guest Fook]

The problem with reinventing RVD is, what kind of character could he possibly play besides a stoner? I can't see him as a bad-ass type. He could probably try being an arrogant heel, but we already have too many of those nowadays (Masters and Conway immediately come to mind).

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Jericho and Benoit are both guys who have blatantly gotten their one run with the title and have been booked like lesser stars since.

 

Benoit's better off than the other two because he's never been jobbed out the same way, even though he's been dropped down the card. Just look at how he was allowed to squash Orlando at Summerslam. Jericho & RVD would never be allowed to do that. Benoit still has his credibility and that is a big deal. He's still seen as a threat, whether he is challenging for the World Title or in the opener.