When was the last **** match...

[Dark Age 0]

Yeah, I'm blatantly stealing this from another board.

 

Basically, I want to get an idea of how you people rate matches. So, when was the last **** WWE match? Or ***** if you want to try that. If you want to do some sort of wacky countdown of matches and ratings then feel free.

 

Anyway, last **** match is difficult. I think there's been one this year - EDDIE/REY (SD; not sure of the date, but you know what one I mean). Angle/Shawn I'm not sure about. Last year there was three, maybe four (BROCK/EDDIE, EDDIE/JBL(JD), REY/CHAVO(GAB) and maybe ANGLE/EDDIE(SS)).

[SuperJerk 0]

Benoit/Regal from Velocity was pretty damn close to ****.

[Guest rawmvp]

Batista vs. HHH from Vengeance was a **** 1/2 star match.

[Jebus 0]

Since I recently re-watched it, I'm partial to Angle vs. Jannetty

[Downhome 0]

Undertaker vs. Luther Reigns at NWO was one hell of a **** match.

[World's Worst Man 0]

This thread is bound to get ugly. It already has.

 

Angle vs. HBK at WMXXI

 

Before that, Guerrero vs. Lesnar from NWO 2004. Before that..your guess is as good as mine. WWE doesn't exactly churn out that quality wrestling.

[Guest *KNK*]

Considering that WWE hasn't had a ***** match since 1996, It's another short list of matches to hit **** and nothing in 2005 has touched **** yet, with Shawn/Angle WMXXI getting the low end of a ***1/2 rating.

 

Eddy Guerrero Vs Brock Lesnar is most recent match that has touched **** for WWE.

 

This is going to another "Shawn is the greatest" vs "Shawn is horrible" debate thread isn't it? Let's just close this thread now but the only answer to this question is Lesnar/Guerrero.

[Caliban 0]

Edge vs Hardy, Unforgiven.

[Angle-plex 0]

Orton/Foley Backlash 2004, from what I've seen.

[Epic Reine 0]

Easily Paul London vs Akio from the Japan Velocity and no, I'm not kidding.

[The Mandarin 0]

That was good but I preferred the other Akio vs. Paul London matches more.

 

The last match that I thought was very good was Hardy vs. Edge in a cage, but I don't know if it was "****". Hardy's best match ever.

 

Cena vs. Jericho (RAW) was also recent and even better than that match.

[Guest JesusJuiced]

Probably Cena/Jericho/Christian at Vengeance.

[Guest *KNK*]

This thread makes my eyes bleed. You guys are naming matches that didn't even hit ***, much less ****.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I believe star ratings can be different for the same match and both ratings can be accurate. It depends on how you view a match.

 

Benoit vs Orton from Raw of last year would be the last match to hit the 4 star bout. Without a shadow of a doubt.

 

I'd have to watch it again but Eddie and Rey might have hit 4 stars with that Smackdown match that looked at the time to be a blowoff match.

 

My take on why Benoit vs ORton works - From a previous thread on the board:

 

Some quick points.

 

 

The stage is set. Orton at Slam won the title in an upset with a lucky RKO. The upstart has beaten the veteran who lived all his life for the title.

 

Fast forward to Raw. Benoit is ticked after losing his most prized possesion the night before. Orton is the new young, brash champion who "fluked" out a win.

 

Now as anyone who's read my posts before knows I mark for in ring intensity in a big, big way. This match here in particular was loaded with it.

But the cool thing is the situation called for it. Benoit has to be intense (he ups it a notch here) and Orton as a result has to be the young champion just barely holding on. The roleplaying for these two roles are played to perfection in this match.

 

In fact, the beginning beatdown of Orton in this bout is one of the most entertaining things I've seen. Intense as anything and they do a great job of keeping the match entertaining throughout Orton's beatdown. A lot of the times you run the risk of creating sympthany for the heel or just boring the audience if you go too long with a face beatdown of a heel. Here, however this doesn't happen. Orton's comebacks allow the match to stay interesting while at the same time showing how ticked off Benoit was. Any brief momentum is cutt off by Benoit. They did a real good job in particular around the dropkick off the apron spot by Benoit. Not only did it play off Slam but it allowed yet another tease that Orton was out of trouble only for him to get his just deserts with a dropkick. Brilliant. Everything they did here gave the impression that Orton was the young lucky champ holding on while Benoit was a man on a mission. Everything with a flow/pace that was just terrific. Benoit busting out a new moveset also added to the seriousness of his quest.

 

 

Orton who was in big time trouble (loved the raking of the face while in the sharpshooter) needed some kind of big break to gain the advantage in the match and that's what he gets. The dropkick off of the apron sending Benoit down to the barrier. Not only was it a big time move that he needed but the move comes off as a desperation/lucky strike which so fits into his charactor's role for the match.

 

Orton's beatdown on Benoit was pretty fun/good enough although not totally deadly. I liked that as it gave the perception that Benoit was still this stick of dynamite ready to explode and as soon as he got that oppurnity he'd get his just deserts. Orton is just weathering the inevitable Benoit lightning storm. The Orton beatdown on Benoit also allowed us all to appreciate Benoit's comeback all the more.

 

Fast forward to Benoit's comeback. It's all intense as we expect from the lightning storm that is Benoit. One real nice moment has Benoit just planting Orton down to the mat with a face first suplex. Than we have Benoit going for the crossface immediatly after the german suplexes. That was a nice touch there as it truly displayed that the "barely holding on to his title by a thread" Randy Orton is no match for Benoit. Still to this point everything done in this match falls in line with their charactor roles.

 

Now we have the ending of the match which was intereference ridden. Normally, I hate interference but every once in awhile it works. This is one of those time. As evident by the whole match Orton really has no chance here. It's only luck that's going to get him through this night and that's what happens here. A distracted Benoit gets hit by the RKO when he turns around for the 1/2/3. This was the only way Orton could win the bout -- the lucky route. If he had won it any other way all the roleplaying would be for naught. To the very end they stay true to their charactors for the bout.

 

 

So yeah, obviously I love this bout. Benoit bringing out the movest was a really nice touch. The touches from Slam were cool as well.

 

A lot of my favourite matches will have a certain flow to them. If I don't like the pacing/timing/flow of a bout it usually doesn't work for me. This one had a terrific flow.

[Beast 0]

Both Angle/HBK and the HITC from Vengeance were at least 4 stars. As were Shelton/HBK, Money In The Bank, and Angle/HBK from WM.

[cabbageboy 0]

They haven't had a ***** match since 1996? Um, in 1997 they had a couple in the first HIAC and also Bret/Austin from WM.

 

There have been several **** type matches this year alone, and it's really the stuff that's been mentioned already (Angle/Shawn WM, Money in the Bank, Edge/Matt from the last Raw PPV, I dare say even the Cena/JBL I Quit).

[Downhome 0]

Oh, you guys are talking stars? I thought the **** was an expletive deleted.

[Guest MikeSC]

Then would that make Kronik v UT & Kane a ****** match?

[chaosrage 0]

This is an easy one. Angle/HBK from last week.

[Guest *KNK*]

They haven't had a ***** match since 1996?  Um, in 1997 they had a couple in the first HIAC and also Bret/Austin from WM.

 

There have been several **** type matches this year alone, and it's really the stuff that's been mentioned already (Angle/Shawn WM, Money in the Bank, Edge/Matt from the last Raw PPV, I dare say even the Cena/JBL I Quit).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bret Vs Austin in 1996 was the last WWE ***** match, Those two aforementioned matches aren't ***** matches. Bret/Austin in 1997 is the lesser of the two major matches and it completely fails to match the level of quality, it transcends the first match in significance but not remotely close in quality. The WM13 Match registers at ****1/4. While the HIAC match, easily the best version of the gimmick and one of Shawn's greatest performences, isn't ***** standard but merely an even **** stars.

 

None of those matches you called **** for 2005 reached beyond ***1/2 and only one managed to do that.

 

You can have your opinion of what a **** match is, but ***** is the "ultimate" rating and you drastically undervalue the importance of a ***** rating by giving those matches those ratings you gave them.

 

2005 has been a horrible year for WWE in all aspects from creative to in ring quality and It's embarassing to see that people will consider matches like Matt/Edge ****.

[Guest rawmvp]

HBK vs. Benoit From Phoenix, Arizona in 2004 was an awesome and criminally underrated match.

[iliketurtles 0]

Probably Angle/HBK at Mania.

[Aero 0]

It's pointless to try and argue star ratings, so I'll just say that I think the best match of the past five years was probably Eddie-Lesnar, followed by maybe Angle-Benoit from Rumble 03.

[cabbageboy 0]

Bret/Austin from WM is easily better than the Survivor Series 96 match. The Series match is also really good but it really had no suspense to it at the time (it was assumed Bret would win, in fact easier than he actually did) and it really doesn't have a huge amount that is flat out stand out about it. As in aside from the Million Dollar Dream finish I couldn't tell you a whole lot of the notable spots in the match and I've seen it a few times. I got the feeling Bret and Austin could do that Series 96 match any day of the week. The WM match was a once in a lifetime match. That's the difference.

 

I might agree with HIAC not quite being ***** because of the Kane run in (Scott Keith deducted a bit for this as well). But it's an instant where the run in actually fits the context of the match so I was giving them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

 

**** to me is a rating that can happen in a lot of matches. I don't dish out ***** very often. I wouldn't give Michaels/Mankind 5 due to the DQ (I'd give it about ****1/2). I also wouldn't give any of the Cactus/Nasty Boys matches 5 since garbage style wrestling even at its best is still a garbage brawl.

 

I'd define **** as "An excellent match with a high level of work, solid story being told, but not necessarily an all time classic." Under that definition I have no problem listing those matches as ****.

[alfdogg 0]

It's pointless to try and argue star ratings

Quoted for emphasis

[Guest Coffey]

Triple H Vs. Shawn Michaels Vs. Chris Benoit @ Wrestlemania XX.

[World's Worst Man 0]

It's pointless to try and argue star ratings, so I'll just say that I think the best match of the past five years was probably Eddie-Lesnar, followed by maybe Angle-Benoit from Rumble 03.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Debating star ratings is only pointless if the parties involved aren't willing or able to post coherent arguments. It's really no different than debating "the best match of the past five years" without posting a coherent argument. Granted, someone could post a laundry list of reasons for why Benoit-Angle wasn't even close to **** and someone else could choose to either ignore those points, or minimize their importance and give it ****+ anyway. But someone could do the same thing if we're debating the best matches of the past five years. "I don't care about the flaws, it's all subjective, and it was still the best match in the past five years".

[The Buzz 0]

I haven't watched much of the recent stuff from WWE but i know the following matches are ones I remember being really good.

 

Taker vs Angle- 9/3/03

Lesnar vs Benoit-An Edition of Smackdown In Late 2003

Lesnar vs Rey-Same as The Above

Lesnar vs Eddie-NWO 2004

HHH vs HBK-Last Raw of 2003?

HHH vs Benoit vs HBK

Benoit vs HBK-Showdown in Texas or whatever it was.

HBK vs Angle- Mania 21

HBK vs Shelton Benjamin

[Jobber of the Week 0]

None of those matches you called **** for 2005 reached beyond  ***1/2 and only one managed to do that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What in the hell do you consider Angle VS Benoit from RR 03 to be? What about Lesnar/Guererro from NWO 04?

[alfdogg 0]

OK, these are my five *favorite* matches...I won't say best...of the last five years that I've seen.

 

Rock/Austin WMX7

Rock/Jericho NM '01

Eddie/Brock NWO '04

Angle/Benoit RR '03

Benoit/Jericho RR '01

 

EDIT: In no particular order.