John Cena

[claydude14 0]

Cena's debut against Angle...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=32...72038206&q=cena

 

How long has this google video search been around? Shit is sick.

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

Cena's debut against Angle...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=32...72038206&q=cena

 

How long has this google video search been around? Shit is sick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love you.

[Guest clockworkraven]

Cena hits some sort of Stinger Splash in there. Man. Nice find.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

We mean crappy 1996 Boyhood Dream HBK.

[Brett Favre 0]

They turn him heel, and he'll get cheered even more. They turn him face, and they'll make his character the happy-go-lucky world champion. The WWE just doesn't get it. LEAVE THE FUCKING CHARACTER ALONE.

[Slayer 0]

I wasn't watching the E in '02, hence by the time I first saw Cena, he was already into his rap character.

 

Seeing him in general tights with a metal entrance and actually wrestling is weird

[cabbageboy 0]

The main problem is that Kurt Angle has never shown any ability to stay over as a face. It's weird really. Angle has sort of a smarmy natural quality about him that makes his character so easy to boo, but he is so excellent in the ring that he gets cheered. It's like certain elements of the fanbase cheer for Angle no matter what he does, but he's also never been terribly effective as an outright face.

 

The only time I can think of where the crowd turned on Shawn all that bad was at Survivor Series 96, where most of the crowd cheered on Sid of all people. It should be noted that Sid was NOT a clear cut heel in that feud but instead both guys were tenuous buddies that had some problems. Sid had actually been a face for his 1996 run and drifted into tweener status before going full heel.

 

Cena is getting booed against guys who are flat out heels and not meant to get any cheers whatsoever. Fans cheered fucking JERICHO over this man. My God, fans weren't even cheering for Jericho when he was fighting Shelton for the IC title. Jericho was a nice option for Cena in theory because he had no heat or credibility so he wouldn't overshadow the champ...but could at least carry him to a solid match.

 

You can't keep pushing a guy because he's popular with teenage girls. What kind of fanbase is that? Teenage girls simply move on to other things after a point. The 18+ crowd actually (gasp) pays for tickets, buys PPVs, and are long term fans of the shows.

[Downhome 0]

Cena's debut against Angle...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=32...72038206&q=cena

 

How long has this google video search been around? Shit is sick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the best Cena match I've seen in a long time, heh, thanks a lot.

 

Very interesting, I'm loving that search engine:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...648103&q=misawa

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=24...371192135&q=wwe

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=53...415625781&q=wwe

[Lord of The Curry 0]

His gimmick seems to be the biggest thing holding him back. While he is not the greatest ME'er they've got he's carryable and is willing to work hard in matches.

 

WWE Scenario in 2003- John Cena is getting super-over as a heel with his "edgy" raps and his I-don't-give-a-fuck attitude.

 

Solution: WWE turns Cena and it works for a while. Until now.

 

WWE Scenario in 2005- John Cena is tanking as a face character and desperately needs some of the edge he had in 2005 back.

 

Solution: WWE turns Cena heel and it works.

 

Until the fans start cheering him again and they're stuck back at square one.

 

A complete gimmick overhaul is the only surefire way to see where they stand with him because he'll always be stuck in some form of limbo with the rapper gimmick. You'll always have the part of the crowd that digs his charisma and mic skills so on that front he'll always be cheered. Then there's the other part of the crowd that view him as a poseur and know that he's pretty bad when it comes to his in-ring work.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

I remember people saying "this guy hasn't impressed me on the mic so far". When was it that he started to impress in his promos?

[Guest JMA]

We mean crappy 1996 Boyhood Dream HBK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. That stuff was too damn sappy.

[Downhome 0]

John Cena has only impressed me on the stick when he becomes very intense. It's not about his rap "skills", or any of that. I remember one time, although I don't remember what it was about, that he cut an amazing promo backstage. He needs to just be an intense character, not the childish ass that we see so much.

 

One huge problem with him, is that I get the feeling that WWE wants us to like the guy too much. They aren't letting it just happen naturally.

[Black Lushus 0]

jesus, Cena has horribly regressed since that first match...

[2GOLD 0]

I still say his character worked when his raps weren't written by the writing staff. Since then, every promo he cuts is basically, "this guy is gay". Every promo is nothing more than Cena doing five minutes of gay jokes.

 

It's not him that is stale, it's the freaking writing of the thing that got him over that's stale. His promos used to be unexpected with edge and originality...now, it's the same joke over and over and over. And the jokes are only funny if you are a 13 year old with some kind of mental handicap.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Cena isn't very different now then he was in that match. Only difference is that he now has a better body and he doesn't do the Stinger Splash and that roll-up. In fact I think he can't even do it anymore cause he his body is bigger. I might be wrong and they just want him to work a certain style

[k thx 0]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=53...415625781&q=wwe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God, I miss Batistas old music.

[Slayer 0]

What's the significance of the Batista/Goldberg match...?

[k thx 0]

It has Batiistas old music. Thats enough.

 

Also, it's nice watching a random match you'd never see now.

[k thx 0]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...030540&q=lesnar

 

Also good to hear the fans shit over Lesnar/Goldberg again.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Ah, it seems Cena is in the Road Dogg mode right now, and will likely never break from it.

 

Wasn't Road Dogg a decent worker putting on some entertaining matches before he got over with a few catchphrases? If so, that's what the problem is with Cena, and he's not going to be breaking out of it soon.

 

I wonder just how good Cena is, because Cornette was pimping this guy out to be the next Flair.

[Slayer 0]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...030540&q=lesnar

 

Also good to hear the fans shit over Lesnar/Goldberg again.

Definitely nice to hear the crowd without the E trying to edit them out

[A Happy Medium 0]

I'm surprised that Ross and Lawler were able to acknowledge it on the air. Good form on the nananana-heyhey-goodbye chant.

[cabbageboy 0]

The problematic aspect of overhauling Cena's gimmick is that the whole rap thing is what he's primarily known for. If he drops the rapper act what's he going to do? Initially he was really bland and heatless.

 

I think what we are seeing in the grand picture is that in some form the fans have turned on all the OVW prospects that are brought up and given world titles without really paying any dues. I'd say it happened a bit with Lesnar (as that WM XX match would show, though it was a different circumstance). It definitely happened with Orton last year, and now it's happening to Cena.

 

Batista has for the most part escaped this, I'd think due to him having paid some dues in the form of having a shitty initial gimmick (Deacon Batista?), then studying under Flair and HHH in the background for a while, etc.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Lesnar paid dues. He worked with broken ribs, busted up knees that required surgery which he put off to work through, and almost killing himself for people at WM 19. That man paid dues.

[cabbageboy 0]

What exactly were these dues Lesnar paid in 2002 when they first put the title on him? Either way I still think it was a mistake putting the title on him then. It gave him nothing to build to in his career. So over time he just thought "Is this all there is?" and then wanted to try the NFL.

 

Besides, I hardly think Brock working with hurt ribs for a bit is akin to someone like Al Snow who worked the indies for 12 years before getting anywhere.

[Jericholic82 0]

the problem with cena is the same problem alot of guys have. especially with smarks. most of us cheer for the heels, just to be different and buck vince and laugh at the "marks". so Cena was a heel so we like dhim, then he turned face and all the kids like him, so thus we hate him.

 

neutering his character has hurt, also his gimmick is old now. back in 03 it was something different (a serious white rapper gimmick- when he first got the gimmick it was basically comedy, I think we took notice when brock hurt him and he did promos against brock on sd. They were raps, but they were hard-edged and serious. Hell the FU name came about after one of these antibrock raps in which Cena said "Your finish is the F5, mines the FU! The evolution of the gimmick was big, and the gimmick was different than any other previous "white boy acting black" gimmicks, it was a serious one

 

WWE doesnt know how to sell a babyface anymore. They dont get that you can be a face and still be hard-edged and not happy-go-lucky (like was aaid, take a look at Austin for example). Then they go ahead and book a austin-mcmahon retread with bischoff, and yet keep cena as this wussy smiling babyface guy.

 

They should probably take the title off him soon.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Who give the title to? If they have Kurt Angle win it now it would seem like Angle IS better then Cena and then Cena is screwed. They don't really have a second big babyface. HBK just isn't IT anymore, he can't do it. Both rosters combined is better because then you can have either Angle winning the belt with help and it's Angle vs. Batista or Cena turns Heel and it's Cena versus Batista at WrestleMania. Which should be a money match cause both men by then would have a 1-year title reign.

 

Btw, Cena made me laugh in the fifth question with Five Questions with the Champ.

[cabbageboy 0]

I agree on Michaels, he's not really a #1 type face anymore. Putting the title on him again might be ok in a short term scenario but it'd be putting the title on an old dude.

 

The other really over face on the Raw side would be RVD when he returns. Whether they actually push him is another matter.

[Guest JMA]

HBK could help more if he went to SmackDown!. Just imagine the matches he could have with Eddie.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What exactly were these dues Lesnar paid in 2002 when they first put the title on him?  Either way I still think it was a mistake putting the title on him then.  It gave him nothing to build to in his career.  So over time he just thought "Is this all there is?" and then wanted to try the NFL.

 

Besides, I hardly think Brock working with hurt ribs for a bit is akin to someone like Al Snow who worked the indies for 12 years before getting anywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What exactly were these dues Lesnar paid in 2002 when they first put the title on him?

 

You don't win NCAA titles without paying mental and physical dues. You don't reach that level of success without paying a mental and physical price. Lesnar paid a whole lot of dues long before he entered wrestling. If you want to write those dues off because they weren't in wrestling, more fool you. But Lesnar paid his dues and then some before he entered wrestling.

 

Either way I still think it was a mistake putting the title on him then.  It gave him nothing to build to in his career.  So over time he just thought "Is this all there is?" and then wanted to try the NFL.

 

Giving Lesnar the title didn't "give him nothing to build on". Giving someone the title isn't the be all and end all of putting someone on top. There's also being on top and staying on top. Lesnar did that over time, not right off the bat. Once Lesnar had done all that and saw that he wasn't going to get to do that again, he lost some of that desire, simply because when you're that competitive and you feel that you've come as far as you can in one field you lose some of that fire; after all, when you want to do the best you can and you realize that you've done all that and won't get the chance to do so again, you naturally begin to think of a new challenge for yourself to take because you want a challenge.

 

Besides, I hardly think Brock working with hurt ribs for a bit is akin to someone like Al Snow who worked the indies for 12 years before getting anywhere.

 

You forgot to make fun of Brock working on knees that needed surgery for a couple of months so he wouldn't let fans down and almost breaking his neck to give the fans a moment they would remember.

 

With 'fans' like you, I can see why wrestlers easily hate them.