Winter Olympic Men's Hockey Thread

[Guest]

GM should be Burke, but he wouldn't do it. He's too wrapped up in the NHL.

 

Quenneville's had a lot of talent in St. Louis and they never did anything, so he's a shitty coach in my eyes. I'm not too sure about Martin.

 

It's hard to get stars to buy into a hard forechecking system like Sutter employs, and it wouldn't work.

 

Babcock is the ideal coach for team Canada, look what he does with the star quality in Detroit. It's a no brainer.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Babcock is the ideal coach for team Canada, look what he does with the star quality in Detroit. It's a no brainer.

 

Oh and he dragged the Mighty Ducks to the Stanley Cup Finals as a rookie NHL coach.

I'm suprised he is doing so well in Detroit. Alot of NHL fans accused the Ducks of using the trap and I thought Mike would make the Red Wings a more defensive team.

[Guest]

A lot of NHL fans are full of shit because they judged the Ducks solely on that series against the Devils. Whenever the Devils make the finals, it brings this aura upon the team that they're facing that all they do is trap. What else could be done against Jersey? Lots of people make judgments solely on playoff series, and I hate it.

 

A lot of people like Dave Tippett, I don't really get that one.

 

EDIT: You knew I couldn't mention Babcock going to the Finals. That one hurt. I want Barry Melrose back.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

red baron is going all anglesault on us. quit complaining. y'boys choked. putting up lame avatars critisising coaches & players is so lame. y'big lame-o.

 

I'm gonna stick up for my buddy here and say take it easy on him, JK.

 

Was he a little to easy to point the finger, blame the other?(Whoever knows that song that is wins the thread)

Maybe.

 

But Canada should have, could have, would have done better. And most of the country is in a state of hysteria right now, as I'm sure you know. Whether he was right or wrong, back up. Blame is being spread like crabs at a whorehouse near Fort Dix right now.

 

Crawford will never again coach for Canada. Should he? Maybe. But benching Gretz in 98 put him behind the 8 ball. Even if Gretz doesn't harbour any grudge, I don't see him picking him in any fashion.

 

Ken Holland is the GM for Canada at the Worlds in May, but he's got a heavy task in front of him, with forseeably Crosby and Doan and Nash being his pivots. Of course, Thornton, Cheechoo, Savard(quiet, Max ), Giguere, Marleau and McCabe are still on the fence.

[Red Baron 0]

Add Brendan Morrow (underrated) and Daniel Brierre to the list I'd be happy.

 

The problem with Quenville in St. Louis is that he never really had a strong goalie that was either consistant or healthy.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Add Brendan Morrow (underrated) and Daniel Brierre to the list I'd be happy.

 

The problem with Quenville in St. Louis is that he never really had a strong goalie that was either consistant or healthy.

 

Both those two will be in the playoffs, tho.

 

It wasn't that he never had one strong goalie, it's that he had a baker's dozen so-so goalies. As Quinn needs to learn, try what you think works and have faith in it, don't bail and change things when the slightest thing gets shaken up.

[Red Baron 0]

Agreed. He got too mishy mashy and halfed assed out there. Kinda like he's been coaching with Toronto (meaning Quinn).

[Guest]

Cause I'm bored, I'll take a look at this roster. With Demitra, Tkachuk, Turgeon, Stillman, Hecht, Weight, MacInnis, Pronger, Drake, Young and Mellanby on that Blues roster in the 2000-01 season, I don't give a damn how consistent your goalie is. In the clutch and grab era, that's a real good team. They did get to the Western Conference Finals.

 

I guess he's alright, but no Mike Babcock.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

I hate to say I told you so but...

 

It was obvious when this team was picked but that we would struggle to produce offense. I mean, we left off 7 of the top 10 Canadian scorers at the time when we picked the team.

 

Even looking at the top 13 Canadian scorers in the NHL at the current moment, we have FOUR of them. Now, I realize that you simply don't take the 13 top scorers and call it a team (although in reality I think that group of forwards would have fared much better than the current crop).

 

But we do need to take our best players, and simply put, we did not. I challenge anyone to contend that Eric Staal is not one of Canada's best 13 forwards. If so, then why is he not on the team? We need to stop justifying picks with the age/experience argument. I mean, how is a player supposed to gain international experience if he's not given the opportunity to compete internationally?

 

People seem to forget that our forwards are competing against the best defensemen and goaltenders in the world and goals are not going to come as easy for many of these guys as they do in the NHL. We need to get off this "we need checkers" mentality. Honestly, these guys drag the team down.

 

Todd Bertuzzi, Shane Doan, Kris Draper and Ryan Smyth: These four will be the grinders on the team and will most likely be in the situations where to slow down the opposing team. If anyone is going to debate that they do not to be on the team is an idiot. To have a well rounded team, you need balance, and that means checking. No checking=no medal. We've learned that from Nagano.

 

No offence but this is an ass-backwards quote. Salt Lake City did not have any players that could only check. Was Mike Peca there? Sure was, and he was in the middle of a 25 goal, 60 point season (at a time when numbers like those were actually impressive). If he had 4 goals and 12 assists, he would not have been there.

 

It was actually Nagano where we tried to fill the "ghost" roster by plugging players into certain holes and such. Rob Zamuner? Trevor Linden?

 

Like I mentioned, Doan, Draper, Smyth, and Bertuzzi didn't directly hurt the team (well, Bertuzzi may have) but on another token, I wouldn't say they helped the team (awaiting the mis-guided penalty killing arguments). In fact, I agree with the arguments that Draper, Doan and Smyth may have been among the better players.

 

But they did hurt the team by taking away spots of potentially better players and by not complimenting the skill of the players around them. Unfortunately, playing with Draper hurts a guy like Heatley and undermines his value. Heatley's a very solid player, but not one that can carry others. He needs to ride shotgun with someone and compliment them. And am I the only person that realizes that he plays his best hockey on the left wing with a right handed centre (Spezza, Briere)? I mean, it's only natural when you think about it. So yeah, you can write that line off (Draper, Heatley, Richards).

 

And then there is the Smyth, Lecalvier, St. Louis line. Although they did have their spots, unfortunately this line is just not talented enough to make that impact at the international level. So two lines down.

 

With the other two struggling (especially Thornton, Bertuzzi, Doan and the oft-benched Rick Nash), we just didn't have the offence. My team probably would have looked like this:

 

Gagne-Sakic-Tanguay

Heatley-Spezza-Iginla

Nash-Thornton-Staal

Kariya-Lecalvier-Richards

Smyth (who is the only one I wouldn't have had originally)

 

Is there a checking line? No, but like I mentioned, at an international tournament, we don't have the explosive guys such as Hossa, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, etc. to be writing guys off. Canada's offence is almost always by committee, but by designating checking lines and taking away spots from more deserving players to fill the team, we limit our offense significantly. Great players will adapt to roles as tournament's progress.

 

Onto the defense, which, despite our low GAA was also very dissapointing. In our last three games, we averaged over 30 shots against per game (while generating just over 20).

 

It's apparent that we have a real issue with developing capable international defensemen. Our D struggled in moving the puck and joining the rush. None of those guys looked like they could skate at that level (albeit Bouwemeester probably can, and possibly Redden). We really miss Niedermayer, and unfortunately, there is no one similar on the rise. The NHL style tends to filter out the smaller quicker D. Regardless of all of this though, Phaneuf should have been there. Regehr isn't even the best Canadian defensemen on the Flames yet he's on the team? How does that work?

 

The really upsetting part with the team is that not one player named to the team was not at the summer orientation camp. That tells me that no matter what type of performance any player had (ie. Staal's borderline Hart candidacy season) they weren't making the team. It was obvious that this team was picked based on the 2003-2004 season, which means we basically had the best team from two years ago, rather than the best team now. Honestly, and I said this prior to Ron MacLean or whoever else mentioned it today, the lockout may have cost us a medal in this respect.

 

I think if this tournament was played on an NHL rink, we probably could have won it all (especially with a potentially dominant Thornton-Nash-Bertuzzi line). However, the international game is much different.

 

The international game is more of a puck possesion game and less tailored to the dump and chase style. And ultimately, our terrible speed dragged us down. If you noticed, all the European teams penetrated our zone through the middle before they would dish off to the side which allowed them to maintain possesion. They were able to do this because of their speed, coupled with our slow team. The defensemen had to collapse both deep and towards the middle of the ice to respect this, pretty much giving the opposition the zone in the process. On the flip side, this was something that we weren't skilled enough to do. As a result, we were forced to penetrate outside, which with our slow forwards was easy to contain and force turnovers/dumps. It was very ugly to witness if you knew what to watch for (and probably the reason why we looked like we were getting dominated at times, which we were).

 

Anyways, I think we should turn it around for 2010. Hopefully this serves as a wake up call and Gretzky's Old Boys club ceases to exist. I really hope he decides to step down and opts not to stay on (or god forbid coach the team).

 

In regards to the coach, my heart says Darryl Sutter. But (and I probably rarely do this) I have to agree wholeheartedly with Kingofthe909 on almost all his points here. It would be difficult getting everyone to buy in on such short notice. The strength of the Sutter's is partially in the fear that one has of them, particularly because of their absolute power over personnel and such, which I don't believe Darryl would be given.

 

Hitchcock probably wouldn't be a bad choice, but we need to to change everyone over.

 

Crawford and Babcock would be the two other logical choices and both are currently well liked in the Hockey Canada circles. Ultimately, I think Babcock would be the best choice. Again, he is similar to a degree with Sutter in his hard nosed approach but I just think he could get the guys to buy in a bit quicker.

 

In regards to the Executive Director spot, Burke wouldn't be a bad choice nor would Detroit's Ken Holland (although potentially too heavy a Red Wing influence, however that shouldn't matter at that time), but ultimately I would like to see Scotty Bowman oversee the team selection. I really think we need someone not currently associated (his Detroit advisor status doesn't count) with an NHL team, yet still an insider. The exact person could change in four years time, but regardless I would like to see someone with no attachments, so to speak. It just gives them more time to commit to scouting/team selection as well as eliminating some of the favouritism.

[Guest]

The Sutters have to have full control of everything, or they won't do it at all. I forgot about that. If it weren't for that, Brent would have an NHL job by now.

 

Nobody ever complains in Detroit or has reason to because Babcock gives everyone that is deserving ice time. He always has the right guys out there and he's great at changing lines. Stevie Y doesn't play much, but when he does, he plays well. Babcock's really good with switching up the lines, something that greatly hurt the Canadians this tourney. I fucking hate saying all this because he's coached the Ducks and Wings, but it's all true. I can't think of a better coach for the team.

 

Gretzky won't be back either, in his press conference he said he left the press box late in hopes that it would turn luck back on their side. I think that's a telling sign. He'll be stepping down quickly.

 

Someone on another site told me Mike Keenan should coach the team. What the fuck is that shit?

 

The US has all these same problems too, but it's a different matter for a different place. Both teams NEED TO BRING THEIR YOUTH. That point cannot be stressed enough.

[Red Baron 0]

St. Louis Goalies from 1988 to 2004.

 

Greg Millen (1988-1990)

Vincent Reindeau (1988-1991)

Curtis Joseph (1989-1995)

Pat Jablonski (1989-1992, 1995-1996)

Guy Hebert (1991-1993)

Jim Hrivnak (1993-1994)

Geoff Searjant (1994-1995)

Jon Casey (1994-1997)

Grant Fuhr (1995-1999)

Bruce Racine (1995-1996)

Rich Parent (1997-1999)

Jamie McLennan (1997-2000)

Jim Carey (1998-1999)

Brent Johnson (1998-1999, 2000-2004)

Roman Turek (1999-2001)

Fred Brathwaite (2001-2003)

Reinhard Divis (2001-2004)

Cody Rudkowski (2002-2003)

Tom Barrasso (2002-2003)

Curtis Sanford (2002-2003)

Chris Osgood (2002-2004)

[Zetterberg is God 0]

This really sucks but again, Canada did not deserve to win so I accept that the superior team prevailed. Hell, in 2002, Canada probably would have been deafted by Sweden in the semis had it not been for that fluke win by Belarus. This year's team never clicked on any level and being shut-out in half the games was pretty damn sad. The already insane pressure for results in 2010 has somehow increased.

[Vern Gagne 0]

What could a potential 2010 US Men's roster look like?

[Red Baron 0]

Offensive wise, pretty damn good.

 

Defence is a question mark though.

 

I'm surprised that Chelios played so well in this tourney thoough.

[Red Baron 0]

Anyone else realize that the whistle for Canada's "No Goal" was a bit quick.

 

Not that it mattered anyways, the way they were playing they didn't deserve the win in OT or shootout.

[nl5xsk1 0]

To the people that think that Canada won't finish in the medals: what are you smoking, and where can I get some?

I don't know, but whatever it is, I think you need it too.

Awesome, thanks, Kot909 ... I'm actually glad someone else threw this back in my face, because I was thinking after the CDN loss how I was going to have to mock myself if no one else did. At least I was right when I said that America was going to be a bust.

 

And the think that makes me laugh about redbaron's Thornton = soft avatar & title ... it perfectly ignores the fact that about half the team did nothing for Canada. Did Thornton's softness prevent the other guys from scoring goals in 3 of the last 4 games? I'm not going to argue that he played well (in fact, I actually agree that he had among the worst Olympics for ANYONE on the team) ... but at least get an avatar like max's Bruins one, that rotates thorugh the various suck-tacular players (or decent players having piss-poor seasons).

[Red Baron 0]

To the people that think that Canada won't finish in the medals: what are you smoking, and where can I get some?

I don't know, but whatever it is, I think you need it too.

Awesome, thanks, Kot909 ... I'm actually glad someone else threw this back in my face, because I was thinking after the CDN loss how I was going to have to mock myself if no one else did. At least I was right when I said that America was going to be a bust.

 

And the think that makes me laugh about redbaron's Thornton = soft avatar & title ... it perfectly ignores the fact that about half the team did nothing for Canada. Did Thornton's softness prevent the other guys from scoring goals in 3 of the last 4 games? I'm not going to argue that he played well (in fact, I actually agree that he had among the worst Olympics for ANYONE on the team) ... but at least get an avatar like max's Bruins one, that rotates thorugh the various suck-tacular players (or decent players having piss-poor seasons).

 

My inept ability of good computer skills alludes me from doing so.

[Red Baron 0]

No but you could have bench Thorton for an entire game, and put Draper instead and could have better results in effort that is.

[nl5xsk1 0]

My inept ability of good computer skills alludes me from doing so.

I'm right there with you in the minimal PC skils department, redbaron ... I was more defending my boy than actually requesting you make an elaborate avatar to badmouth more members of the CDN team.

 

And I've noticed that you've already changed away from the Joe one, so it's all water under the bridge.

 

And a quasi-threadjack, but this is as good of a place to ask as any: what do Canadians think of Barry Melrose? He's been made the de facto "hockey guy" at ESPN, so most Americans probably consider him a hockey guru. What's his standing North of the Border?

[Red Baron 0]

Mullet.

 

He's pretty good, probably take his opinion and Scott Brunside(sp?) opinion over most of the Canadian hockey writers exluding Bob McKenzie and Pierre McGuire

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Got a pretty so-so Kings team to the finals in 1993. Good enough for me.

 

Yes, they were led by Gretzky and a barrage of talent, I guess, but best in the West? Come on

[Red Baron 0]

For Canadians, CTV is going to be broadcasting the 2010 Olympic games.

 

Just wondering who would be the broadcasters for the game, since it wont be Bob Cole and Harry Neale and also Jim Hughston and Greg Millen.

[Red Baron 0]

Got a pretty so-so Kings team to the finals in 1993. Good enough for me.

 

Yes, they were led by Gretzky and a barrage of talent, I guess, but best in the West? Come on

 

The Kings finished 6th in the conference, but had some good players on there.

 

Luc Robitialle

Tony Granato

Wayne

Jari Kurri

Rob Blake

Tomas Sandstrom

Paul Coffey

Alexi Zhitnik

Daryl Sydor

Dave Taylor

Mike Donnally

Jimmy Carson (came from Detroit)

Marty McSorely (ILLEGAL STICK)

Corey Millen

Robert Lang

 

and of course who can't forget the blue band of Kelly Hrudey

[Red Baron 0]

Evegni Makalin is suspended for the semi-final game against Finland

[The Czech Republic 0]

My inept ability of good computer skills alludes me from doing so.

Your English isn't so hot either

[Guest]

To the people that think that Canada won't finish in the medals: what are you smoking, and where can I get some?

I don't know, but whatever it is, I think you need it too.

Awesome, thanks, Kot909 ... I'm actually glad someone else threw this back in my face, because I was thinking after the CDN loss how I was going to have to mock myself if no one else did. At least I was right when I said that America was going to be a bust.

I had to.

 

Got a pretty so-so Kings team to the finals in 1993. Good enough for me.

 

Yes, they were led by Gretzky and a barrage of talent, I guess, but best in the West? Come on

They also would have won the Cup if McSorley would have used his 3rd period stick. If they were all healthy at one point, I'd love to see how good they would be. Fuck, that team was good. At least they kept the Leafs out of the Finals.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Melrose was pretty candid about blaming Quinn for the CDN defeats, blaming him & the style of play that he implemented for them playing so poorly.

 

Know who I'd like to see get a chance as an Olympics coach? The same guy that I say should get another coaching job in the NHL: Ted Nolan.

[Guest Princess Leena]

Definite agreement on Nolan, as a Sabres' fan.

 

He must have really done something great to piss off Muckler so much that nobody will touch the guy.

[Guest]

He tried to get him fired, and did. He's blackballed now.

 

OH MY GOD

 

Torino, February 23 (TASR = the official press agency of the Slovak Republic) - X-rays and examinations carried out by an ophthalmologist in a Torino hospital on Wednesday night showed the Slovak hockey player Pavol Demitra suffered injuries including broken nose, cracked cheekbone and a sludge in the area of his right eye. This is a serious type of injury, which the doctors estimate should keep him out of the game for at least one month, he could even miss the remainder of the regular season.

 

The LA Kings forward suffered the injury in the third period of the quarterfinal game of the Winter Olympics, when during a powerplay he was hit by a puck from a hard wristshot from the blue line made by the defenseman Milan Jurcina. The puck bounced off the visor on Demitra's helmet to the area of his right cheek. The team's captain was taken to a hospital before the third period ended, accompanied by the team's doctor Dalimir Jancovic.

 

"If he would not wear a visor on his helmet, his injury might have been much worse. After the examination, the hospital's ophthalmologist said there should be no permanent injury to the eye. Palo could see normally and recognizes all colors, the preliminary prognosis is good. However, he added that the final diagnosis can be made only after the blood from the eye is gone. As soon as that happens, it will be possible to determine if there was any damage to the retina," Jancovic informed the media.

FUCK FUCK FUCK. Two players lost in this piece of shit tournament.

[Guest Princess Leena]

Allegedly, he tried to get Muckler fired. But, the situation with Muckler then was messed with the Sabres... they wanted to remove him entirely from the team, but they didn't want to dump his contract after they removed him as coach. Muckler was gone soon anyway, so it didn't matter. And Muckler had cause to be jealous, so I don't read much into it.

 

Nolan is supposedly an asshole after what happened to him... and he did a very bad thing in pissing off Hasek, who was God back then. But, still, I'm very surprised a team wouldn't take a chance on Nolan. To lead that crappy Sabres' team to 2nd in the conference was an amazing job.