So Edge is out

[Guest RickyChosyu]

1) An ironman match means that we would have to see the Angle/Edge feud start again.

2) Angle will carry Edge's ass to a good match and get a "good job son, now put Test over." while Edge will get rewarded.

Base your opinions on logic, please.

 

1) If the Edge/Angle feud never comes to a proper conclusion, it makes all of it worth nothing, right?

 

2) I think the idea that Edge has gotten good matches out of Test before more than disproves Angle carrying him. Both men have been making the matches, no one man made the match. If you mean "carry" as in, Angle physically carried him through the match, that's dead wrong since that would be obvious to spot. If you mean he carried him as in Edge was just following his lead, then why did Edge do things he hadn't done before? At the very least, Angle carrying Edge would basically mean that Edge did his usual match while Angle did all the extra work to make the match good. But Edge didn't do his usual act, thus making the arguement null and void. The second Angle and Test even get near each other in the ring, I'll give you that arguement, but I haven't seen it yet, so save it, alright?

 

-Ricky, who thinks this bleeding heart act got old a long time ago...

[Guest Anglesault]

1. Let's just pretend that the cage match was the conclusion. Why does Edge have to beat Angle AGAIN for the feud to conclude?

 

2. I disagree about the Test/Edge match being good. And Until Edge has a match that is as good as Summerslam/Backlash/Judgment Day facing someone NOT named Angle or Storm, I'd say he is not good enough to have a four star match without an awesome worker. Hell, if his other none Angle/Storm matches are any indication, he's about ** at best.

[Guest Brian]

Bravo

[Guest RickyChosyu]

1. Let's just pretend that the cage match was the conclusion. Why does Edge have to beat Angle AGAIN for the feud to conclude?

 

2. I disagree about the Test/Edge match being good. And Until Edge has a match that is as good as Summerslam/Backlash/Judgment Day facing someone NOT named Angle or Storm, I'd say he is not good enough to have a four star match without an awesome worker. Hell, if his other none Angle/Storm matches are any indication, he's about ** at best.

1. Edge doesn't have to beat him again, we just need resolution. How can you book a match saying "this is the final blow off match!" and then have the winner get injurred? It just doesn't leave any resolution. I'm not suggesting that an actual iron man match occur, or anything (I'd rather not see another win for a long while, actually) but Edge helping Hogan win or something of that nature wouldn't be too illogical, would it?

 

2. Test/Edge had several matches that were all **-***ish, and considering most people seem to think Test is the anti-thesis to good wrestler, that would make Edge pretty good, I would think. Eddy Guererro, as amazingly great and gifted in the ring as he is, only got **3/4 out of Test by my count, and Edge got at least that out of him in their series. The Regal feud was unmercifully borring, but the matches were never that bad. I mean, considering how much everyone panned Regal at the time, he and Edge were always able to put on something at least decent. Jericho/Regal was no better, really. Edge gets the short end of the stick too often, and the second he has anything resembling a great match, Storm and Angle are hailed as carrying boys by all of their internet fan boys. Now I'm not at all against those two in any way, but every once in a while it's good to give the other guy in the match the benafit of the doubt and consider the possibility that he worked a little, too. Just a thought.

[Guest]

1. Edge doesn't have to beat him again, we just need resolution. How can you book a match saying "this is the final blow off match!" and then have the winner get injurred? It just doesn't leave any resolution. I'm not suggesting that an actual iron man match occur, or anything (I'd rather not see another win for a long while, actually) but Edge helping Hogan win or something of that nature wouldn't be too illogical, would it?

 

2. Test/Edge had several matches that were all **-***ish, and considering most people seem to think Test is the anti-thesis to good wrestler, that would make Edge pretty good, I would think. Eddy Guererro, as amazingly great and gifted in the ring as he is, only got **3/4 out of Test by my count, and Edge got at least that out of him in their series. The Regal feud was unmercifully borring, but the matches were never that bad. I mean, considering how much everyone panned Regal at the time, he and Edge were always able to put on something at least decent. Jericho/Regal was no better, really. Edge gets the short end of the stick too often, and the second he has anything resembling a great match, Storm and Angle are hailed as carrying boys by all of their internet fan boys. Now I'm not at all against those two in any way, but every once in a while it's good to give the other guy in the match the benafit of the doubt and consider the possibility that he worked a little, too. Just a thought.

 

1) Almost all WWE feuds are that way now. They all end with no conclusion to set up another feud (Usually)

 

2) If Angle/Edge was **** (It wasn't), then there is no way in hell anyone would rate Edge/Test ***.

[Guest Brian]

Were the last two Edge/Angle matches even ***?

[Guest]

I didn't see the Judgement Day match, but the backlash match was about **1/2 - ***.

[Guest Brian]

BackLash was the best in their series, unfortunately.

[Guest Anglesault]

Edge doesn't have to beat him again, we just need resolution

 

Have you ever seen a Babyface avenge an inury and LOSE?

 

 

but Edge helping Hogan win or something of that nature wouldn't be too illogical, would it?

 

That would still leave Angle/Edge unresolved. just let it be OVER.

 

Test/Edge had several matches that were all **-***ish

 

When?! Do you mean those DUD/* matches from last November?

 

he Regal feud was unmercifully borring, but the matches were never that bad.

 

The other way around. The feud, while lasted WAY to long and became tediously bad, was much better than the awful matches.

 

What about the bad matches with Christian (A better worker than Edge)?

 

 

 

Now I'm not at all against those two in any way, but every once in a while it's good to give the other guy in the match the benafit of the doubt and consider the possibility that he worked a little, too

 

I'm not sayinghe doesn't TRY. I'm just saying it doesn't really pay off unless he's facing a good worker.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

2) If Angle/Edge was **** (It wasn't), then there is no way in hell anyone would rate Edge/Test ***.

Read Scott Keith's rant of that PPV. He gave it 3 stars and he didn't even give Angle/Edge from JD 4 stars.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

What about the bad matches with Christian (A better worker than Edge)?

Christian sucks in the ring right now. All cheap heat and restholds. I like the guy, but he's hideously overrated.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

1) Almost all WWE feuds are that way now. They all end with no conclusion to set up another feud (Usually)

 

2) If Angle/Edge was **** (It wasn't), then there is no way in hell anyone would rate Edge/Test ***.

1) Not true. Lately they've been like that.

 

Lately.

 

2) I'm not sure what you mean. I never put any star rating on Edge/Angle, so ignoring that part of your statement, I still found Edge/Test from Survivor Series last year to be ***, that being their peak match. If you want to rate the Edge/Angle matches, I thought they were both around ***1/2-***3/4 ish. Didn't see the cage match.

[Guest]

Read Scott Keith's rant of that PPV. He gave it 3 stars and he didn't even give Angle/Edge from JD 4 stars.

 

But he gave Angle/Edge backlash 4 stars. Scott Keith either overrates or underrates most matches.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

But he gave Angle/Edge backlash 4 stars. Scott Keith either overrates or underrates most matches.

So? He enjoyed the match more than you or some others did, it's all subjective and trying to push what you personally gave the match holds about as plastic bag full of water that's poked full of holes.

[Guest RetroRob215]

But he gave Angle/Edge backlash 4 stars. Scott Keith either overrates or underrates most matches.

And who doesn't?  The odds of his rating matching your's exactly are slim to none.  

 

I personally think that Edge can be good at times, but Anglesault is right, it depends on who he fights.  Edge'e best singles matches have been against Owen Hart, Kurt Angle, and Lance Storm.  Edge couldn't even have a very good match with Christian and he had been fighting/teaming with Christian for YEARS!  Edge has at least two more years to go until he can put on a good match with a mediocore worker.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Have you ever seen a Babyface avenge an inury and LOSE?

 

That would still leave Angle/Edge unresolved. just let it be OVER.

 

When?! Do you mean those DUD/* matches from last November?

 

The other way around. The feud, while lasted WAY to long and became tediously bad, was much better than the awful matches.

 

What about the bad matches with Christian (A better worker than Edge)?

 

I'm not sayinghe doesn't TRY. I'm just saying it doesn't really pay off unless he's facing a good worker.

1) The babyface doesn't have to win or lose, which was the point I was going to make later.

 

2) No, it would resolve Edge/Angle because Edge would be helping the guy he supposedly idolizes get his last big win over a guy he still hates. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

3) The way I see it, all of their TV matches were **1/2, or around there. Crisp originial offense + great crowd heat = solid tv match, which in my book is **1/2. The PPV match was ***, because it essentially built off of the TV matches and went longer, which is the most I can ask for a conclusion to a feud. It was a good match.

 

4) The feud was bad because it went way too long. The matches were no worse than Regal was having with everyone at the time, and is still having, that being nothing special, but passable wrestling. The matches were by no means horrible. That doesn't mean I'd ever want to see them again, it just means I didn't mind sitting through them, which, in my book, means they were passable.

 

5) None of the matches with Christian were bad. That seems like a way-out-of-left-field statement to me, but whatever. Both were somewhere within ***-***1/4, which does not mean bad, but good.

 

6) Like I said before, he got just as much as out of Test and Regal as anyone has, and he's had great matches when given a capable apponent. He carried his role just fine in the Storm match and the Angle matches. It's just that those two are looked at as elite workers by the net fans, despite neither of them doing anything that great lately, outside of their respective matches with Edge. Again, that's not to say they're bad, but Edge deserves more credit for his matches, that's all.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Without jumping in to the actual discussion I'm just gonna throw out my * ratings.

 

Edge vs. Test (Survivor Series) ***

 

Edge vs. Regal (Vengeance) *3/4

 

Edge vs. Regal (Royal Rumble) **1/2

 

Edge vs. Regal (No Way Out) 3/4*

 

Edge vs. Booker T (WrestleMania) *1/4

 

Edge vs. Angle (Backlash) ****

 

Edge vs. Angle (Judgment Day) ***

 

Edge vs. Angle (Smackdown cage match) **3/4

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I personally think that Edge can be good at times, but Anglesault is right, it depends on who he fights.  Edge'e best singles matches have been against Owen Hart, Kurt Angle, and Lance Storm.  Edge couldn't even have a very good match with Christian and he had been fighting/teaming with Christian for YEARS!  Edge has at least two more years to go until he can put on a good match with a mediocore worker.

Again, I must point to the Edge/Test matches. The matches were good (not great, not excellent, but good) and Test has always been mediocre as a worker.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I personally think that Edge can be good at times, but Anglesault is right, it depends on who he fights.  Edge'e best singles matches have been against Owen Hart, Kurt Angle, and Lance Storm.  

That's a good point, but look at who those three are. And really, with Angle, he's faced nothing but top tier talent ever since he's been in the fed and he's really only gotten a surprisingly good match out of Kane once. And honestly, outside of Kane, I can't name a single mediocre worker Angle has ever gotten a good to great match out of. And no, HHH doesn't count as a mediocre worker so stop that train of thought before it gets started.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

6) Like I said before, he got just as much as out of Test and Regal as anyone has, and he's had great matches when given a capable apponent. He carried his role just fine in the Storm match and the Angle matches. It's just that those two are looked at as elite workers by the net fans, despite neither of them doing anything that great lately, outside of their respective matches with Edge. Again, that's not to say they're bad, but Edge deserves more credit for his matches, that's all.

GREAT point, Ricky.

[Guest Anglesault]

And honestly, outside of Kane, I can't name a single mediocre worker Angle has ever gotten a good to great match out of.

He's pulled something out of Jeff Hardy (KotR Qualifyer) and something semi-passable out of Test. (Around Mania X-Seven) His matches with Bob and Crash Holly were pretty good. Shane McMahon at King of the Ring. Stasiak, Blackman and Tazz at Surivor Series, Armageddon and Royal Rumble weren't terrible (Considering Rumble was just meant to get Tazz over)

[Guest Anglesault]

2) If Angle/Edge was **** (It wasn't), then there is no way in hell anyone would rate Edge/Test ***.

Read Scott Keith's rant of that PPV. He gave it 3 stars and he didn't even give Angle/Edge from JD 4 stars.

Scott Keith has an obvious Canadian bias. He gave that AWFUL Jericho/Austin match from NWO *** and MotN, when it was really closer to * and saved from worst of the night by HHH/Angle's shitty ass performance. he just gave that match match of the night because Jericho was in it. Neither Edge/Angle nor Test/Edge were as good as he says. But they both have Canadians in it, so they get good ratings, and Test/Edge has TWO Canadians, so that rating jumps even higher.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

He's pulled something out of Jeff Hardy (KotR Qualifyer) and something semi-passable out of Test. (Around Mania X-Seven) His matches with Bob and Crash Holly were pretty good. Shane McMahon at King of the Ring. Stasiak, Blackman and Tazz at Surivor Series, Armageddon and Royal Rumble weren't terrible (Considering Rumble was just meant to get Tazz over)

I'd have to dig through my tapes and watch those matches again because I don't remember most of them being all that good. And with the Shane KOTR match, I felt that was pretty overrated, but that's just me.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Scott Keith has an obvious Canadian bias. He gave that AWFUL Jericho/Austin match from NWO *** and MotN, when it was really closer to * and saved from worst of the night by HHH/Angle's shitty ass performance. he just gave that match match of the night because Jericho was in it. Neither Edge/Angle nor Test/Edge were as good as he says. But they both have Canadians in it, so they get good ratings, and Test/Edge has TWO Canadians, so that rating jumps even higher.

We all have biases. Hell, I liked Edge/Test better than Keith did, doesn't mean his ratings influenced my thoughts on it at all. I also thought giving Austin/Jericho 3 stars was kinda insane as well, but hey... it's his review, not mine.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Edge bothers me.

 

Hes like a poor mans Jericho...only not nearly as good in any possible category.

 

Christian was the better "character" but Edge is the better wrestler.  No one has to carry Edge through matches.

 

But Edge on the mic is...odd...and I don't know if he can play a heel without Christain.  As far as playing a face goes...well...I'm sick of him.

 

He doesn't have the ability to keep crowds into his matches like some others do.

 

There is a lot to knock on the guy and my #1 thing is that I just do not buy him as a main eventer.  At all.

 

Time can change that...but only at the sacrafice of MANY MANY top stars.

 

And quite frankly...I don't think that Edge is worth the effort.

[Guest Anglesault]

He's pulled something out of Jeff Hardy (KotR Qualifyer) and something semi-passable out of Test. (Around Mania X-Seven) His matches with Bob and Crash Holly were pretty good. Shane McMahon at King of the Ring. Stasiak, Blackman and Tazz at Surivor Series, Armageddon and Royal Rumble weren't terrible (Considering Rumble was just meant to get Tazz over)

I'd have to dig through my tapes and watch those matches again because I don't remember most of them being all that good. And with the Shane KOTR match, I felt that was pretty overrated, but that's just me.

They're nothing to write home about, but you have to consider his opponents, and none of the matches are actively BAD. Most are passable to good-ish. The Tazz and Test matches weren't offensively bad, but pretty decent consodering who they were, the purpose of the match, and time constraints.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Edge bothers me.

 

Hes like a poor mans Jericho...only not nearly as good in any possible category.

 

Christian was the better "character" but Edge is the better wrestler.  No one has to carry Edge through matches.

 

But Edge on the mic is...odd...and I don't know if he can play a heel without Christain.  As far as playing a face goes...well...I'm sick of him.

 

He doesn't have the ability to keep crowds into his matches like some others do.

 

There is a lot to knock on the guy and my #1 thing is that I just do not buy him as a main eventer.  At all.

 

Time can change that...but only at the sacrafice of MANY MANY top stars.

 

And quite frankly...I don't think that Edge is worth the effort.

I'm not saying Edge is good at playing a character outside the ring, or that he's even been likeable lately, I'm just saying that as far as his matches go, Edge is better than most people are willing to admit around here.

 

And if Kieth is so biased against Canadians why was he so high on HHH/Austin last year, or Rock/Angle, or any other number of matches with only Americans in them? Furthmore, why then, did he rate the Edge/Booker and Edge/Regal matches so low? He has no bias for Edge, nor does he for Test. He rated one of Test's matches in the negative stars recently. Kieth is biased towards Jericho, and even that he's willing to admit. He's said Jericho can't carry, is inconsistant, and even said Eddy was essentially wrestling himself in their WCW matches. His Benoit fandome isn't bias at all, but respect for one of the greatest in the world. Sheesh.