The Montreal Screwjob?..

[Guest messiahtype]

but i wanted to ask a hypothetical question. it seems that bret was in such shock/disbelief

that he didn't think to immediately react(excluding the spit). my question is what would you have done if you were in bret's shoes. would you break kayfabe and beat shawn up legit, right in the ring but risk being outnumbered by the road agents/vince? although i think the canadian fans were so passionate, they might've entered the ring if bret was in danger. would you wait throw your little tantrum and then beat shawn up in the lockerroom, where it's a more favorable situation? or would you have just decked the boss and left, like what happened in actuality.

[Red Baron 0]

Personally, beat up Shawn in the lockeroom, and give Vince a nice little shove into the wall.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Bret prolly did the right thing by not hitting Shawn in the ring(or Vince, for that matter). Yes, I think fans may have hit the ring at that point, which is an unreal can of worms.

[Guest messiahtype]

Bret prolly did the right thing by not hitting Shawn in the ring(or Vince, for that matter). Yes, I think fans may have hit the ring at that point, which is an unreal can of worms.

no problem with your thoughts. i'm just curious as to why you think that way..and it showed a ton of professionalism to not shoot on a guy you despise and refuses to put you, or anybody else over.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

You're surprised I think that Bret may have acted violently towards either of those two?

 

Well, that sounded shitty, but I think it goes without saying that we don't always think things through while angry.

[Red Baron 0]

Bret stayed professional, thus Bret > Shawn.

[Guest messiahtype]

You're surprised I think that Bret may have acted violently towards either of those two?

 

Well, that sounded shitty, but I think it goes without saying that we don't always think things through while angry.

 

no not all. i was just interested to hear why you thought(not shooting on shawn) it was the right thing to do.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

How/when could he have shot? The show went off the air with him in the ring.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Bret stayed professional, thus Bret > Shawn.

 

Would that extend to after the show when Bret broke monitors and threw announcer headsets into the crowd?

 

Montreal was a work. The fact that we still talk about it means it is probably second only to Austin/McMahon in terms of great angles WWE has done.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Bret stayed professional, thus Bret > Shawn.

 

Would that extend to after the show when Bret broke monitors and threw announcer headsets into the crowd?

 

Montreal was a work. The fact that we still talk about it means it is probably second only to Austin/McMahon in terms of great angles WWE has done.

You honestly think the whole thing was one big work?

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Bret stayed professional, thus Bret > Shawn.

 

Would that extend to after the show when Bret broke monitors and threw announcer headsets into the crowd?

 

Montreal was a work. The fact that we still talk about it means it is probably second only to Austin/McMahon in terms of great angles WWE has done.

You honestly think the whole thing was one big work?

 

The more I think about it and the more WWE references to it, the more I think that it was the biggest work in professional wrestling history.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

While it wouldnt surprise me were that so, I dont feel this was a work. Come on.

 

While I've hated HBK my entire life and think he had a lot to do with the Montreal, he prolly wasn't central and shouldn't be hated solely for Nov. 9/97.

 

But after last August's Raw, bets are off.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

When you look at what the incident accomplished, it is tough to say it wasn't the best work in WWE history.

 

In the final moments of that match:

 

-Bret Hart lost the title belt, but wasn't "beaten" by Shawn Michaels in Canada.

-Shawn Michaels won the title belt and became the second biggest heel in the company.

-Vince McMahon became the one of the biggest heels in wrestling history and eventually built off this heat in his feud against Steve Austin.

 

If the events that took place in Montreal were real, do you think:

 

-Bret Hart would want to relive the event not once, but twice in WCW?

-Shawn Michaels would continually comment about the incident? (Remember the "Kliq Curtain Call", that real moment has only been mentioned once since it happened)

-Vince McMahon would continue to be an on-air character? If McMahon "screwed" Bret Hart simply because it was what was best for the business, wouldn't he just return to his regular role as announcer after the event? The fact that he built on the heat he garnered from this event makes me believe that the "Montreal Screwjob" was one giant work.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

When you look at what the incident accomplished, it is tough to say it wasn't the best work in WWE history.

 

In the final moments of that match:

 

-Bret Hart lost the title belt, but wasn't "beaten" by Shawn Michaels in Canada.

-Shawn Michaels won the title belt and became the second biggest heel in the company.

-Vince McMahon became the one of the biggest heels in wrestling history and eventually built off this heat in his feud against Steve Austin.

 

If the events that took place in Montreal were real, do you think:

 

-Bret Hart would want to relive the event not once, but twice in WCW?

-Shawn Michaels would continually comment about the incident? (Remember the "Kliq Curtain Call", that real moment has only been mentioned once since it happened)

-Vince McMahon would continue to be an on-air character? If McMahon "screwed" Bret Hart simply because it was what was best for the business, wouldn't he just return to his regular role as announcer after the event? The fact that he built on the heat he garnered from this event makes me believe that the "Montreal Screwjob" was one giant work.

 

Yes, they would do an angle that they wait 9 years to make money off of. Moron.

[The Decemberists 0]

The fact that Shawn in particular tends to recall a completely different series of events every single time he talks about it, suggests it was a shoot.

 

If it was a work you'd at least think he'd stick to the 'storyline'.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

When you look at what the incident accomplished, it is tough to say it wasn't the best work in WWE history.

 

In the final moments of that match:

 

-Bret Hart lost the title belt, but wasn't "beaten" by Shawn Michaels in Canada.

-Shawn Michaels won the title belt and became the second biggest heel in the company.

-Vince McMahon became the one of the biggest heels in wrestling history and eventually built off this heat in his feud against Steve Austin.

 

If the events that took place in Montreal were real, do you think:

 

-Bret Hart would want to relive the event not once, but twice in WCW?

-Shawn Michaels would continually comment about the incident? (Remember the "Kliq Curtain Call", that real moment has only been mentioned once since it happened)

-Vince McMahon would continue to be an on-air character? If McMahon "screwed" Bret Hart simply because it was what was best for the business, wouldn't he just return to his regular role as announcer after the event? The fact that he built on the heat he garnered from this event makes me believe that the "Montreal Screwjob" was one giant work.

 

Yes, they would do an angle that they wait 9 years to make money off of. Moron.

 

Sorry, I must have missed that nine year period between the Fall of '97 and the Spring of '98. Jackass.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

If the events that took place in Montreal were real, do you think:

 

-Bret Hart would want to relive the event not once, but twice in WCW?

-Shawn Michaels would continually comment about the incident? (Remember the "Kliq Curtain Call", that real moment has only been mentioned once since it happened)

-Vince McMahon would continue to be an on-air character? If McMahon "screwed" Bret Hart simply because it was what was best for the business, wouldn't he just return to his regular role as announcer after the event? The fact that he built on the heat he garnered from this event makes me believe that the "Montreal Screwjob" was one giant work.

 

Yes to all, because HBK, Bret, and Vince all realized that everyone and their mother was talking about it, thus, it only made sense to try and plug it into more angles. I mean, Vince isn't a moron; do you really think he'd say to himself "Gee, the fans really seem to hate me now, and I've been an on-air personality for years. Better just ignore it and go back to being a nobody"?

 

And I'm sure they've mentioned the Curtain Call more then once. DX got into the ring once and showed the footage to make Vince look bad or something, and HHH spoke about it in some interviews.

 

Also, why do a work in such a way that it totally exposes the business? Isn't that nonsensical?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Meltzer posted this about Montreal on WC in one of the numerous threads that always crops up about the subject:

 

I've read the court papers. Hell, I was in the middle of one of the cases (Owen Hart wrongful death case where the Survivor Series was brought up specifically as a key part of the defense argument and mentioned by the prosecution as well) , and I can tell you that I'm not working you, and that case settled for $18 million and you mean to say one side wouldn't call work when the other used it as its main defense with tens of millions at stake?

 

You don't involve the court in two sides working an angle. You don't have lawyers going back and forth constantly on legal settlements in front of judges in a worked angle. There were lawyers going back and worth the entire week before the match, and in several cases involving the movie and Owen Hart after the match, as well as threats of persecution for assault and damage to property on one side and breach of contract on the other that didn't get filed.

 

You don't have lawyers for Turner involved in legal proceedings involving the Wrestling with Shadows tape on an internally worked WWF angle.

 

Davey Boy Smith also strained his knee pulling Shane McMahon off during the non-existent fight, and then quit the company over a worked angle and ended up paying $100,000 to Vince McMahon (for real, a legal settlement) so he could leave and go to WCW, a move he greatly regretted a few months later, by the way. Owen Hart tried to also quit the company over a "worked angle" but was told he would not be allowed out of his contract.

 

Bret Hart also turned down how many straight years of begin asked to come back over a "worked angle" that he refuses to come to its conclusion. He was told if he could just do 5:00 with Vince he'd main event this year's Mania and they told him it would do 1 million buys and he turned down the match, and turned down a ref job of the main event at two different Manias, returns at virtually every Survivor Series.

 

Isn't the idea of shooting the greatest angle in the world to then make money with the payoff?

 

I should be surprised that some people still either cannot or will not accept that Montreal as real, but I'm not.

[Hawk 34 0]

It's wrestling's version of the JFK assassination. Morons like JustJoe will still be around in 25 years to push some opposite and wrong notion and keep the whole arguement alive.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

When you look at what the incident accomplished, it is tough to say it wasn't the best work in WWE history.

 

In the final moments of that match:

 

-Bret Hart lost the title belt, but wasn't "beaten" by Shawn Michaels in Canada.

-Shawn Michaels won the title belt and became the second biggest heel in the company.

-Vince McMahon became the one of the biggest heels in wrestling history and eventually built off this heat in his feud against Steve Austin.

 

If the events that took place in Montreal were real, do you think:

 

-Bret Hart would want to relive the event not once, but twice in WCW?

-Shawn Michaels would continually comment about the incident? (Remember the "Kliq Curtain Call", that real moment has only been mentioned once since it happened)

-Vince McMahon would continue to be an on-air character? If McMahon "screwed" Bret Hart simply because it was what was best for the business, wouldn't he just return to his regular role as announcer after the event? The fact that he built on the heat he garnered from this event makes me believe that the "Montreal Screwjob" was one giant work.

 

Yes, they would do an angle that they wait 9 years to make money off of. Moron.

 

Sorry, I must have missed that nine year period between the Fall of '97 and the Spring of '98. Jackass.

 

And how, exactly, did they make money off of the screwjob? The "Mr.McMahon" character could very well be considered a rip-off of Eric Bischoff's corrupt WCW president character, and he didn't even become a full fledged heel until a couple months later. The screwjob may of played a role in turning the fans against him, but they didn't directly profit off the screwjob, at least in a significant way.

[Guest The Beta Male]

The more I think about it and the more WWE references to it, the more I think that it was the biggest work in professional wrestling history.

 

if referencing dictates the status, then Eddies passing is also a work, as they`ve namedropped him at every opportunity in their cynical milking of his death.

 

survivor series this year, bret will hit the ring with Owen and Eddie, exposing it all as a big work.

Owen and Eddie will then pull off their masks and be HBK and HHH, awwwww, it was all a big swerve.

Bret joins DX.

 

and the worst thing? we can all picture them doing this segment

[cabbageboy 0]

The Montreal Screwjob did actually lead to a very tangible increase in TV ratings however. Raw was doing ratings in the 2s before Montreal and after that they went up about 0.8 and stayed above 3.0 for all but 1 week.

 

That said, I'm not exactly sure how much of what Vince did to Bret really mattered to fans, especially the new fans. There were months that went by after Montreal where Vince had little to do with the shows at all. The stuff that really drew the fans in was Austin winning the Rumble and going for the title, DX and their antics, Mike Tyson, UT and Kane.

 

By the time Vince truly launched into his evil owner character it was April, 1998. That was 5 months after Montreal, and even then Vince's character was based on not wanting Austin as his champion and the whole Bret incident was only vaguely mentioned.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

The fact that some people still think Montreal was a work isn't surprising at all.

 

Hell, I know a few people who actually think Pillman, Owen, and Eddie are all still alive and their deaths were just part of the show.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Can we just let it go already? It's been almost ten years. When I got on the internet back in '96 or so, people weren't still rambling on and obsessing about the rock & wrestling connection, Vern Gagne's incompetence, or Hulk Hogan's first title run, etc.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, in terms of that it was likely people wanting to relive what they felt were the glory days of wrestling (the 1980s) during a time when the WWF's product was pretty crappy.

 

The reason these Montreal threads keep popping up is that it's still a relevant topic in today's business. Yeah, it's kinda lame to talk about Rock 'N Wrestling circa 1996 because that whole 1985 era was incredibly passe. Montreal isn't passe, mainly because Vince is still the evil owner on TV and they insist on doing a screwjob finish seemingly once a year.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Well, in terms of that it was likely people wanting to relive what they felt were the glory days of wrestling (the 1980s) during a time when the WWF's product was pretty crappy.

 

The reason these Montreal threads keep popping up is that it's still a relevant topic in today's business. Yeah, it's kinda lame to talk about Rock 'N Wrestling circa 1996 because that whole 1985 era was incredibly passe. Montreal isn't passe, mainly because Vince is still the evil owner on TV and they insist on doing a screwjob finish seemingly once a year.

And didn't TNA try using Hebner at the last PPV to screw Christian? And wasn't the screwjob the reason for Vince vs. Shawn? It's still being used to this day

[Guest hasbeen]

Can we just let it go already? It's been almost ten years. When I got on the internet back in '96 or so, people weren't still rambling on and obsessing about the rock & wrestling connection, Vern Gagne's incompetence, or Hulk Hogan's first title run, etc.

 

 

I'm still rambling about Verne's incompetence, in another thread.

[Guest hasbeen]

Can we just let it go already? It's been almost ten years. When I got on the internet back in '96 or so, people weren't still rambling on and obsessing about the rock & wrestling connection, Vern Gagne's incompetence, or Hulk Hogan's first title run, etc.

 

 

I'm still rambling about Verne's incompetence, in another thread.

[Guest hasbeen]

Can we just let it go already? It's been almost ten years. When I got on the internet back in '96 or so, people weren't still rambling on and obsessing about the rock & wrestling connection, Vern Gagne's incompetence, or Hulk Hogan's first title run, etc.

 

 

I'm still rambling about Verne's incompetence, in another thread.

[Guest hasbeen]

I must have really been wanting to get that point across..can someone remove two of those then this too.