The influcence of mixed martial arts in pro wrestling

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

I used to take a few forms of martial arts, and that hold is fucking painful.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

There is an interesting question between the correlation with Wrestling and MMA...I think very few will argue that MMA latching onto the Wrestling audience a bit by stealing the glitz and glamour, and appealing to that crowd is nothing but good for the sport, but does the same hold true for wrestling? Does latching onto MMA help Pro-Wrestling?

 

The answer is no.

 

Pro-Wrestling is where it's at in Japan, not because of PRIDE or K-1 stealing their fans, but instead due to the inbreed of MMA and wrestling. Anyone who says MMA has simply jacked the fans so is misguided. New Japan Pro-Wrestling is still the golden fed for the media, in that everything they do is held slightly above the other feds. Their misses are Puroresu's misses, and their successes are Puroresu's successes. You can link NJPW's current status, which has helped drag Puroresu in general down to their MMA influence.

 

For years, Antonio Inoki held power in NJPW, and would push anyone with a real background. Kazayuki Fujita after fighting in PRIDE is the prime example. I believe he won the IWGP title THREE TIMES despite not being a good worker. Tadao Yasuda won the IWGP title after winning a shoot fight despite being god-awful. Yuji Nagata lost a shoot fight to Mirko Cro Cop and was depushed. Kendo Ka Shin beat a Gracie and was given a god push

 

And so on, and so forth.

 

As NJPW took a more shoot style approach, fans left. The booking was horrible, the matches suffered due to the new style. Simply put, MMA killed Shoot style off. There's no point to it anymore, and there will NEVER be another major Shoot Style fed in wrestling. You don't have to watch wrestlers act out a shoot fight. You can *SEE* a shoot fight. That's a lesson Kiyoshi Tamura and U-File learned the hard way. People don't care anymore.

 

NJPW's an extreme example, and only now are they rebuilding themselves after all that. MMA influence has been around since the original UWF in the 80's. Hell, you can watch a Shinya Hashimoto match and see the MMA influence there, as he was pushed as the strongest man in the world, aka Antonio Inoki's old push.

 

In the United States, it's a bit different, but it's following the same trends. The indy wrestlers see it as the new big thing, so they latch onto it much like how EVERYONE started doing the Shining Wizard, and the two big promotions see it as a somewhat useful device to use. The US Market is slowly, every so slowly repeating what the Japanese market did. As new MMA promotions show up, some being more flashy then others, it runs the same risk that Japan had. The difference is, WWE aside, the NA market is signifcantly weaker then Japan's ever has been.

 

And so far, history shows that if the two things are promoted closely together, Pro-Wrestling loses.

[razazteca 0]

The problem would be if WWE were to take some kickboxers and push them as MMA gods then have them lose to Orton or Cena. But something like Undertaker vs Semmy Schmilt would be a fun special attraction for a PPV.

[Guest Overworked]

they tried the melding of UFC style and WWF back in 98 when they had Shamrock, Owen Hart, Steve Blackman and Dan Severns, problem was it was horrible because they did it like wrestling and not what UFC or MMA for that matter is. They have a decent corps of wrestlers to draw a few that could Visibly match up in a true fighting style but in the end it will be about sad venture of the WWE trying to expand. XFL, WBF, WCW/ECW invasions, NWA invasions 98, SMW 94, etc etc etc etc

[LooseCannon25 0]

As in a kimura with the dude applying the hold doing it from bottom position?

 

 

Sakuraba style baby!!!!

[Lei Tong 0]

I don't think Sakuraba has actually ever won with a kimura from the bottom. Babalu did fuck up Zaza Grom with one, though.

[Lei Tong 0]

Double post.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

The thing is, which this is a point I didn't get to in my sleep deprived rant, is that some MMA influence is AOK. A good punch/kick combination is nice, and doesn't get used alot. Terkay(Predator goddamnit)'s punches into that spinning back kick into a spinning backfist is a good example. It's simple, it's quick, and it's effective. Granted, all that was wiped away by his horrible armbar submission.

 

In WWE-land, they don't seem to understand how to properly do it. They get SOME aspects, but then they give someone like Terkay a top armlock, instead of say...A triangle choke, or a Jujigatame, or a Wakigatame, or hell, a friggin kneebar. They think Angle's a shooter because he takes the guy down, mounts, and does stuff like that. He's not. Although his quick headbutt is nice.

 

In TNA-land, Samoa Joe doesn't work "shoot"ey at all, instead he wrestles more like a mid-1990's NJPW worker. Simple kicks, submissions, and slams to pace the match, and a quick finisher combination (or simply the choke) as a finisher. That's the defination of what's been called "Strong style", not that "I chop you 50,000 times and not sell because we're BADASS!" thing that's going around in both sides of the pond.

 

The main issue with Angle, and Predator right now, is you can't have someone go 100% "shootey" on the opponent, who then wrestles completely regularly. It Won't work. It creates a divide between what's believable (Shooter guy) and what's not (other guy). It does not mesh at all. If Terkay went half/half, he could be a big star. Beats the shit out of you with strikes, some type of huge finish such as a powerbomb, or chokeslam, then a submission while you're half dead...Basicly, Joe-ized.

[Guest DRH 502]

I think Bryan Danielson is the perfect example of how to effectively work MMA esque moves into a pro wrestling style and make everything come off as legit...

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

I would mos def agree with that.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

For real.

[Guest DRH 502]

Definately. I will further elaborate on why I said this. Danielson is in the Benoit/Regal/Finlay line of 3/4 legit American style pro wrestling. He has incorporated bits of the European style along with the his "American strong style"...so for Danielson to finish someone off with an omoplata out of nowhere, or the Gary Goodridge elbows its completely acceptable because of his reputation as a disciplined athlete. Its like everytime Danielson disapears from ROH and comes back he has added a new element of wrestling to his game. It appears after he came back from Europe last year he noticed MMA had blown up (well its 'starting' to blow up) and he took advantage.

 

Despite the shit he gets, Taz's ECW run as the Human Suplex Machine was a great MMA-esque gimmick. The dude who is doing the schtick in OVW right now is decent enough with it (cept for that shitty standing armbar finish) and Kurt Angle is doing what he should have been doing from the very begining. So long as a "shoot" style wrestler doesn't go into buisness for himself and start refusing to take certain bumps or do certain spots because they believe it goes against their gimmick, then I see nothing but great things coming out of this.