Bidding War In Japan For Kurt Angle?

[Guest Connzilla]

Credit:http://wideworldwrestling.blogspot.com/

Weekly Pro is reporting that there could be a bidding war going on in Japan the next couple of months for the services of Kurt Angle. All-Japan is considered the leader for his services as he has friends already working there such as D-Lo Brown, Bull Buchanan, & TAKA Michinoku but NOAH also has a keen interest in Angle along with New Japan & HUSTLE. There is talk that NOAH may offer him a deal where he only works their big shows which could be a better deal for Kurt but we will see what happens over the next few weeks because this could get interesting

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

If Angle goes anywhere...I want him to go to Hustle, but I more don't want him to go anywhere

[Just John 0]

Angle vs. Stars of any other promotion is inherently interesting, but come on... Let the guy heal. This like 3 people underbidding one another on the price of an 8 ball in front of recovering crack addict.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Wrestling is a business. Angle doing a one shot or two here and there is money in Japan due to his credentials.

 

Angle and WWE are the reasons Angle's in such shape. Now it's just the Japanese promotions trying to make money.

 

There is no such thing as ethics in wrestling I'm afraid.

[Hawk 34 0]

You act as if Japanese professions have always been beacons of integrity. They have a higher standard of quality, but that doesn't indicate they are going to avoid making money for the greater good of their promotion.

 

Kurt Angle, and Kurt Angle alone is to blame for his situation. We've covered that his fervent desire to laspe into overdrive, and to overcompensate for his shortcomings is what drove him into physical catastrophe and the psychological damage was in effect long before he even stepped into a professional wrestling ring.

[Guest Connzilla]

I don't think angle should sign a deal in Japan, but if he does I hope he signs with HUSTLE so he only has to do one match each month on PPV non the less and DSE has deep pocketts so he could make the same amount or more a year as he did in the WWe in Hustle and only work 12 shows a year.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

If Angle signed with HUSTLE, he'd have a deal with DSE, which owns PRIDE FC.

 

If that happened, Angle would almost certainly do MMA for PRIDE. It's not like HUSTLE's some completely different product. Many HUSTLE wrestlers/preformers have fought for PRIDE.

 

Angle doing MMA is about a billion times worse then Wrestling, and it looks like that's where he's gonna go.

[Guest nosneb]

Angle doing MMA is about a billion times worse then Wrestling, and it looks like that's where he's gonna go.

 

actually if anything he's going to go to divorce court before anything, but thats besides the point.

personally i'd like to see go to ROH, but chances are he'll stick with the E, he owes everythign he has (or had) to vince, its a shame, but its the truth

[Bruce Blank 0]

Angle doing MMA is about a billion times worse then Wrestling, and it looks like that's where he's gonna go.

What makes you say that? has there been any news on Angle's plans or wishes? Has there been anything other than the "news" that it's rumored that Japanese wrestling federations MAY try to recruit Angle this POSSIBLY setting off a bidding war? (speculation about something that may happen - not really hard facts)

 

I may have missed it but has there been any statements on what Angle's plans or wishes are?

[Pegasus Kid 0]

NOAH or NJPW will get his services. It wouldn't surprise me to see Angle vs Tanahashi or Tenzan at the January Dome Show.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

It's almost a 90% lock Angle will do MMA now. Read the WO updates that HTQ posts. It talks about how that's what Angle wants to try.

[Pegasus Kid 0]

It's almost a 90% lock Angle will do MMA now. Read the WO updates that HTQ posts. It talks about how that's what Angle wants to try.

It really seems unlikely that Angle would seriously go down that route. He's getting up there in age (36? 37?), he racked with injuries, and he has no MMA experience. He'd have to go through some insane training with a busted up body and working with a camp that'll be able to mold him from a wrestling background into a well rounded fighter (Team Quest immediately comes to mind, as does The Hammer House). By the time he's actually prepared to fight, the time will have passed to have any true impact. Also, he's got nothing to gain and everything to lose entering this field considering he left wrestling on top of his field and attained great status in WWE.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's almost a 90% lock Angle will do MMA now. Read the WO updates that HTQ posts. It talks about how that's what Angle wants to try.

It really seems unlikely that Angle would seriously go down that route. He's getting up there in age (36? 37?), he racked with injuries, and he has no MMA experience. He'd have to go through some insane training with a busted up body and working with a camp that'll be able to mold him from a wrestling background into a well rounded fighter (Team Quest immediately comes to mind, as does The Hammer House). By the time he's actually prepared to fight, the time will have passed to have any true impact. Also, he's got nothing to gain and everything to lose entering this field considering he left wrestling on top of his field and attained great status in WWE.

While what you say is true, Angle is beyond competitive. Giving him all these reasons why he cannot do it is just going to make him try even harder to prove people wrong.

[Pegasus Kid 0]

While what you say is true, Angle is beyond competitive. Giving him all these reasons why he cannot do it is just going to make him try even harder to prove people wrong.

But at what cost? Personally I'd love to see him compete and succeed in an MMA setting but with odds stacked against him, whether he's got the fire or not, he probably won't go far in MMA. The only result will be tarnishing an otherwise spectacular career and those kinds of losses will weigh on him more than any sitting at home ever could. Stuff like that eats away at you and you just want to keep going to prove people wrong. Look at Kazushi Sakuraba. He was a fantastic fighter and the hero of his country. Now he's a laughing stock because he pushed himself over and over while his body simply couldn't handle the load he put on it. I'd hate to see that happen to Angle.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

While what you say is true, Angle is beyond competitive. Giving him all these reasons why he cannot do it is just going to make him try even harder to prove people wrong.

But at what cost? Personally I'd love to see him compete and succeed in an MMA setting but with odds stacked against him, whether he's got the fire or not, he probably won't go far in MMA. The only result will be tarnishing an otherwise spectacular career and those kinds of losses will weigh on him more than any sitting at home ever could. Stuff like that eats away at you and you just want to keep going to prove people wrong. Look at Kazushi Sakuraba. He was a fantastic fighter and the hero of his country. Now he's a laughing stock because he pushed himself over and over while his body simply couldn't handle the load he put on it. I'd hate to see that happen to Angle.

Kurt is so far gone he willingly walked away from a guaranteed $1m a year income; if Kurt hasn't been thinking straight so far, he isn't going to start now.

 

And every time he's been told he can't do something he's gone and pushed himself so hard, too hard at times, and gone and proven people wrong. To him, this is just another thing to prove people wrong about. If

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Plus, there's the fact that Angle could make more off one fight then he could an entire year of WWE.

 

Angle will get a GIGANTIC salary for the fight, and a significant portion of the gate or buyrate for it. Against Brock Lesnar in K-1, or Ken Shamrock in UFC, it'll be massive business, making Angle a very rich man win or lose.

 

If he won his first fight, bam, title fight and even BIGGER money. From a financial standpoint, it's a great move.

[Pegasus Kid 0]

Plus, there's the fact that Angle could make more off one fight then he could an entire year of WWE.

 

Angle will get a GIGANTIC salary for the fight, and a significant portion of the gate or buyrate for it. Against Brock Lesnar in K-1, or Ken Shamrock in UFC, it'll be massive business, making Angle a very rich man win or lose.

 

If he won his first fight, bam, title fight and even BIGGER money. From a financial standpoint, it's a great move.

Whoa whoa... settle down there. Angle's salary last year was 1M base + PPV bonus and merchandise royalties. There is no company anywhere that is going to offer him that kind of money. Hell there's no company out there that's going to pay him 1/2 that amount for a single fight. Not only would it be bad for business, it'd outright infuriate your estabished fighters who would probably make that amount on a 3 fight contract.

 

I seriously doubt that any company will give him a title fight on his 2nd bout either. It'd be putting a novelty act (for MMA fans) against someone that you've probably spent a year or two grooming into your title picture. Angle vs Silva, Angle vs Liddell, Angle vs Hughes or Angle vs Franklin just don't click as something you want to risk. He has far better use as a novelty act. He'd make for great material with Tito Ortiz based off the shit talk alone. Let's not kid ourselves, title fights are not in the picture for Angle.

 

For wrestling, it's likely Angle vs Tanahashi, Tenzan, Kawada, Akiyama, Suigara, Kobashi (oh what a return that'd be), Marufuji in Japan. He wouldn't work any other big US fed and I doubt he'd ever work ROH (though Angle vs Danielson is a dream match).

 

For MMA, it's likely Angle vs Ortiz, Angle vs Shamrock (that's money, no joke), Angle vs Sapp, Angle vs Sakuraba (that'd get major jap press). If he was lighter, I'd love to see Gardner vs Angle as well.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Whoa whoa... settle down there. Angle's salary last year was 1M base + PPV bonus and merchandise royalties. There is no company anywhere that is going to offer him that kind of money. Hell there's no company out there that's going to pay him 1/2 that amount for a single fight.

 

Combine a strong signing bonus and a percentage of the PPV money, Angle would easily make over a $1m. Ortiz vs. Shamrock II drew 775,00 buys, and when everything was added together they each made close to $1m if not a little more. Angle's first ever UFC fight would almost certainly beat that 775,000, and with the same kind of PPV percentage as Ortiz and Shamrock, and it would likely be higher, then Angle would make more than $1m.

 

Not only would it be bad for business, it'd outright infuriate your estabished fighters who would probably make that amount on a 3 fight contract.

 

If Angle has a strong, but not outrageous, base salary/one-off payment, then UFC wouldn't be out much more than if they were paying Ortiz or Shamrock. Even if it was more than they got, Angle's debut with the UFC would draw so much more than Ortiz vs. Shamrock that UFC would probably make more from that PPV, even with a bigger percentage going to Angle than did Ortiz or Shamrock. As for infuriating the fighters, they need to realize that it's business, and bringing Angle in would do so much for the UFC, from a business and publicity standpoint, that everyone would gain. Tim Sylvia was pissed at Ortiz and Shamrock getting so much more than he did for UFC 61, even though he was in the main event, but really, who drew those 775,000 buys and thus deserves the bigger share of the pie?

 

I seriously doubt that any company will give him a title fight on his 2nd bout either. It'd be putting a novelty act (for MMA fans) against someone that you've probably spent a year or two grooming into your title picture. Angle vs Silva, Angle vs Liddell, Angle vs Hughes or Angle vs Franklin just don't click as something you want to risk. He has far better use as a novelty act. He'd make for great material with Tito Ortiz based off the shit talk alone. Let's not kid ourselves, title fights are not in the picture for Angle.

 

The fact Angle is a novelty is why, from a business standpoint, they'd want him in the title picture as soon as possible, if it can happen. Angle's first fight would draw huge numbers, but after that there is no guarantee what Angle would mean for business. If he does well enough in the first fight, then you probably want him in a title fight before the novelty wears off, so you can get the make the most money. Of course, if Angle flops in his debut then there would be no point in putting him in a title fight, but as long as he doesn't flop, then they need to capitalize on that and get what they can out of him before Angle falls apart.

 

Of course, the best thing for business is not the best thing for Angle. The best thing for Angle is that he never wrestles or fights again and gets himself healed up as best he can.

[Pegasus Kid 0]

Combine a strong signing bonus and a percentage of the PPV money, Angle would easily make over a $1m. Ortiz vs. Shamrock II drew 775,00 buys, and when everything was added together they each made close to $1m if not a little more. Angle's first ever UFC fight would almost certainly beat that 775,000, and with the same kind of PPV percentage as Ortiz and Shamrock, and it would likely be higher, then Angle would make more than $1m.

There's a stark difference between one of the (if not the biggest) re-matches in UFC history, feuled by literally years of hatred, and the debut of a Olympic wrestler 10 years out of competition who gained big noteriety in a profession that hardcore UFC fans spit on. It's unrealistic to put Angle in the same ballpark for buys as what Shamrock vs Ortiz II drew. The UFC promotion machine has nothing to work from to build his debut aside from accolades from a decade ago and off his name with a company they somewhat compete with. No way is he making 1M or close to it for a single fight. I can't see Dana White offering him a percentage on his first fight either. They're drawing massive numbers without him and would only be digging into themselves on a gamble for a guy that works for a "fake" promotion.

As for infuriating the fighters, they need to realize that it's business, and bringing Angle in would do so much for the UFC, from a business and publicity standpoint, that everyone would gain. Tim Sylvia was pissed at Ortiz and Shamrock getting so much more than he did for UFC 61, even though he was in the main event, but really, who drew those 775,000 buys and thus deserves the bigger share of the pie?

We both know that fighters don't think big picture like that. Silvia couldn't even see past two monster draws within his own genre of fighting. How is he, or anyone else going to see a new guy as being worthy of that kind of payoff when he's completely untested? It'll cause a big issue in UFC and in the long term, whatever monetary gain they may see will probably be offset by the fighters demanding a bigger contract on their next extension, sighting of course that UFC was paying outrageous money to a non tested novelty act.

The fact Angle is a novelty is why, from a business standpoint, they'd want him in the title picture as soon as possible, if it can happen. Angle's first fight would draw huge numbers, but after that there is no guarantee what Angle would mean for business. If he does well enough in the first fight, then you probably want him in a title fight before the novelty wears off, so you can get the make the most money. Of course, if Angle flops in his debut then there would be no point in putting him in a title fight, but as long as he doesn't flop, then they need to capitalize on that and get what they can out of him before Angle falls apart.

I can't agree on this one. Look at it from the long term perspective and to a point how you built your product prior to the fight. We'll use the Welterweight division as an example. Let's say Angle wins his big debut fight and thus (using your example) should be skyrocketed into a title fight with Hughes (or maybe Penn after Saturday). If Angle loses the title fight, it puts the screws to the other contenders (St. Pierre, Sanchez, etc...) because they were built up as contenders and then swept away in the face of the new big thing. On the other side of things, if Angle wins the title then it's another headache. How do they afford him (they wouldn't have signed him to a 3 match contract considering he'd be freelance and now his price tag would be huge)? Who do you establish as the new contenders? How do you appease your fighters who thought they were in line for a shot and now have to sit on the backburner because everyone dropped down a notch? That kind of screwy booking is what pisses off your name fighters and kills you long term when they don't want to renew .

Of course, the best thing for business is not the best thing for Angle. The best thing for Angle is that he never wrestles or fights again and gets himself healed up as best he can.

On this we definitely agree.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There's a stark difference between one of the (if not the biggest) re-matches in UFC history, feuled by literally years of hatred, and the debut of a Olympic wrestler 10 years out of competition who gained big noteriety in a profession that hardcore UFC fans spit on. It's unrealistic to put Angle in the same ballpark for buys as what Shamrock vs Ortiz II drew. The UFC promotion machine has nothing to work from to build his debut aside from accolades from a decade ago and off his name with a company they somewhat compete with. No way is he making 1M or close to it for a single fight. I can't see Dana White offering him a percentage on his first fight either. They're drawing massive numbers without him and would only be digging into themselves on a gamble for a guy that works for a "fake" promotion.

 

All UFC need do is promote it along the lines of "He's tired of pretending; now, the Olympian wants to fight for real". It's a very simple promotional strategy, and I think the one most likely to get people interested.

 

A lot of what drew that 775,000 wasn't just the fact that Ortiz and Shamrock hated each other. It was what Ortiz and Shamrock were able to say and do to get people to want to pay to see their fight. I'll wager Kurt would be just as able, if not more, to get people to pay to see him fight for real. If Angle did fight for the UFC, they, and Kurt, would promote it right, and I have zero doubt that it would at least match the 775,000 that Ortiz vs. Shamrock II did. And if Angle's debut does that, his payoff and percentage are going to be higher than Oritz and Shamrock's, and that assures Angle will clear $1m.

 

And UFC are drawing big numbers, but they haven't got a whole lot left that can get them strong numbers, let alone hit the 775,000. They have Ortiz vs. Liddell II, which Meltzer says has "insane" projections, and possibly Hughes vs. St Pierre, but after that, there isn't a whole lot left that could get the numbers Ortiz and Shamrock did.

 

We both know that fighters don't think big picture like that. Silvia couldn't even see past two monster draws within his own genre of fighting. How is he, or anyone else going to see a new guy as being worthy of that kind of payoff when he's completely untested? It'll cause a big issue in UFC and in the long term, whatever monetary gain they may see will probably be offset by the fighters demanding a bigger contract on their next extension, sighting of course that UFC was paying outrageous money to a non tested novelty act.

 

Sadly, it is true that fighters don't look at the big picture, but they need to. However, Dana White does look at the big picture, and with what he's doing to cut off the inroads any start up ventures may make, it'll be a brave man who tries to play hardball if Dana pulls the trigger on bringing Angle in. If a bunch of fighters do walk away, then there will be plenty more waiting to fill their shoes. And the big names aren't going to go anywhere, so as far as name value goes UFC should be safe.

 

I can't agree on this one. Look at it from the long term perspective and to a point how you built your product prior to the fight. We'll use the Welterweight division as an example. Let's say Angle wins his big debut fight and thus (using your example) should be skyrocketed into a title fight with Hughes (or maybe Penn after Saturday). If Angle loses the title fight, it puts the screws to the other contenders (St. Pierre, Sanchez, etc...) because they were built up as contenders and then swept away in the face of the new big thing. On the other side of things, if Angle wins the title then it's another headache. How do they afford him (they wouldn't have signed him to a 3 match contract considering he'd be freelance and now his price tag would be huge)? Who do you establish as the new contenders? How do you appease your fighters who thought they were in line for a shot and now have to sit on the backburner because everyone dropped down a notch? That kind of screwy booking is what pisses off your name fighters and kills you long term when they don't want to renew .

 

While you raise a valid point with other contenders to Hughes being swept away if Angle gets thrust into a title fight, it was felt by eveyone that Ortiz and Shamrock had their drawing power destroyed with losses to Liddell and Franklin respectively, but look what happened; the right build up and hype, and they broke UFC records. Assuming Angle did get hotshotted into the title picture and the more credible contenders were put aside, it's no guarantee they'll lose any drawing power. If anything, them having to wait to get what many will see as their rightful title shot may make it mean more. And if you want to build them back up, well, TUF always needs coaches and the rest really writes itself.

 

As for contract issues if Angle wins the title, then they could add a clause that Angle has to return to defend the title, or they could simply make it non-title.

 

And as far as appeasing the fighters go, you'd just have to try and hammer it home that it's just business. Knowing Dana White, he'd probably tell them to deal with it and that they can go home if they don't like it.

 

Of course, the best thing for business is not the best thing for Angle. The best thing for Angle is that he never wrestles or fights again and gets himself healed up as best he can.

 

On this we definitely agree.

 

I'm glad at least one other person does.

[Pegasus Kid 0]

Kurt Angle released a statement today that strongly implies he's heading to MMA.

 

With that being said, it was fun debating with you on this one.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

With that being said, it was fun debating with you on this one.

It did make for a refreshing change. We'll probably do it again if Angle does indeed go into MMA.

[Guest Connzilla]

Credit: http://www.realfightermag.com/kurtangle.php

KURT ANGLE TO FIGHT IN MMA IN 2007!!!

 

Wrestling legend Kurt "The Machine" Angle, who recently left the WWE after seven years, told Real Fighter magazine that he is in strong discussions to compete in a professional mixed martial arts bout sometime in 2007. In the coming weeks, the former Olympic Gold medalist will reveal his plans. Will Angle step into a cage, Octagon or ring? RealFighter.com will give you all the details as soon as they become available.

 

Real Fighter magazine will carry an exclusive feature on Angle in the November/December 2006 issue, (on newsstands 11/24) in which the former Olympic Gold Medalist wrestling great will explain what motivated him to jump into the challenging sport of MMA. You won't want to miss it -- and you won't read it anywhere else.