Indy comments which don't warrant a thread

[Ravenbomb 0]

so whatever happened to Reckless Youth? Around the time I was getting into the non-WWE/WCW stuff, most of what I heard was about either Christopher Daniels or Reckless Youth, but now I never hear about RY. Did he retire or something?

[Hawk 34 0]

Jimmy Jacobs, Colt Cabana and Lacey is the best storyline in years.

[PsychoDriver 0]

so whatever happened to Reckless Youth? Around the time I was getting into the non-WWE/WCW stuff, most of what I heard was about either Christopher Daniels or Reckless Youth, but now I never hear about RY. Did he retire or something?

 

Reckless Youth still wrestles. He worked for CHIKARA this past weekend. He just has a really bad repetition for no showing. Which probably keeps him from being booked in more places.

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

And Justin Credible stole his gimmick.

[swan 0]

Isn't he one of the owners/founders of CHIKARA?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Didn't Reckless Youth change his name to something else, along with a gimmick overhaul? It's weird, about eight years ago it seemed like he was going to be a sure fire signing for either WCW or WWF, or even ECW, and it just never happened.

[JHawk 0]

Didn't Reckless Youth change his name to something else, along with a gimmick overhaul? It's weird, about eight years ago it seemed like he was going to be a sure fire signing for either WCW or WWF, or even ECW, and it just never happened.

"The Technician" Tom Carter. The idea was he wsn't as young as he used to be and wanted to save the risks for when he needed them as opposed to relying on them, so he started wrestling more of a mat-based style.

 

I figured he'd be pushed to the moon in ROH, but he never seemed to stay there more than a couple of shows at a time.

[Guest Connzilla]

http://stevecorino.com/

[Ravenbomb 0]

I wish RY had gotten picked up by one of the big three. He was probably the first indy guy I got into. But then for a while I was broke and couldn't get tapes and kinda lost track of the indy stuff for a while.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Quiet Storm sucks at everything he does

[Guest ChikoDemono]

Quiet Storm sucks at everything he does

 

True.

 

I have been out of the loop in terms of indy wrestling, so I have a few comments and questions regarding Bryan Danielson.

 

He's still champion, great. He merged the Pure Title and the World Title, even better. He's injured, which sucks.

 

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curious. Also, should I start calling him Mr. Time Limit Draw?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

[Guest Connzilla]

so whatever happened to Reckless Youth? Around the time I was getting into the non-WWE/WCW stuff, most of what I heard was about either Christopher Daniels or Reckless Youth, but now I never hear about RY. Did he retire or something?

 

Reckless Youth still wrestles. He worked for CHIKARA this past weekend. He just has a really bad repetition for no showing. Which probably keeps him from being booked in more places.

He no showed a Liberty States Wrestling show last night in CT.

[Scroby 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

[Hawk 34 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

 

Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches.

 

People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even).

 

It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it.

 

I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

[Scroby 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

 

Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches.

 

People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even).

 

It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it.

 

I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit.

[Hawk 34 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

 

Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches.

 

People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even).

 

It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it.

 

I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit.

 

It's hardly the same match and finish.

 

Danielson/Joe was them going at it non-stop in a intense battle that Joe simply ran out of time (similar to Punk for WTC and JvP2) and couldn't score the victory.

 

The next two were 2/3 falls.

 

Danielson/Nigel, was Danielson knowing that no one takes him to the limit like Nigel does. So he was trying for the draw after Nigel took the second fall. He knew that he needed cheap tactics to win the 2nd match and escaped with a victory by the skin of his teeth for the 3rd match. So he kept working the clock and he scored the win.

 

Colt/Danielson, was a completely different match. It was pushed throughout that weekend that if there was a draw and there was only one fall, the winner of that fall gets the victory.

 

Guess what happened? Colt got a flash victory early in the match. (which was a throwback to their first match in April where Danielson won in just 6 minutes).

 

That meant Danielson couldn't play on the defensive side anymore. He NEEDED to pin/submit Cabana before time ran out. What happened? He takes a legitimate shoulder injury.

 

Instead of being in control, Danielson was scrambling to score a victory and he resorted to cheating with just 30 seconds to go to steal a quick fall and that meant time expired. Danielson, chased Cabana(in his hometown) for 45 minutes trying to score the tie and once he realized he wasn't going to get it done the honorable way, he cheats and escapes with the title.

 

-

 

The only thing that was identical was the result "Bryan Danielson wins a 60 minute draw" but the match and the road followed throughout the matches were completely different.

[Scroby 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

 

Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches.

 

People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even).

 

It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it.

 

I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit.

 

It's hardly the same match and finish.

 

Danielson/Joe was them going at it non-stop in a intense battle that Joe simply ran out of time (similar to Punk for WTC and JvP2) and couldn't score the victory.

 

The next two were 2/3 falls.

 

Danielson/Nigel, was Danielson knowing that no one takes him to the limit like Nigel does. So he was trying for the draw after Nigel took the second fall. He knew that he needed cheap tactics to win the 2nd match and escaped with a victory by the skin of his teeth for the 3rd match. So he kept working the clock and he scored the win.

 

Colt/Danielson, was a completely different match. It was pushed throughout that weekend that if there was a draw and there was only one fall, the winner of that fall gets the victory.

 

Guess what happened? Colt got a flash victory early in the match. (which was a throwback to their first match in April where Danielson won in just 6 minutes).

 

That meant Danielson couldn't play on the defensive side anymore. He NEEDED to pin/submit Cabana before time ran out. What happened? He takes a legitimate shoulder injury.

 

Instead of being in control, Danielson was scrambling to score a victory and he resorted to cheating with just 30 seconds to go to steal a quick fall and that meant time expired. Danielson, chased Cabana(in his hometown) for 45 minutes trying to score the tie and once he realized he wasn't going to get it done the honorable way, he cheats and escapes with the title.

 

-

 

The only thing that was identical was the result "Bryan Danielson wins a 60 minute draw" but the match and the road followed throughout the matches were completely different.

So it was used for gimmick matches. Ok that works. I thought they just had 3 regular matches do a broadway finish.

[Hawk 34 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

 

Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches.

 

People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even).

 

It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it.

 

I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit.

 

It's hardly the same match and finish.

 

Danielson/Joe was them going at it non-stop in a intense battle that Joe simply ran out of time (similar to Punk for WTC and JvP2) and couldn't score the victory.

 

The next two were 2/3 falls.

 

Danielson/Nigel, was Danielson knowing that no one takes him to the limit like Nigel does. So he was trying for the draw after Nigel took the second fall. He knew that he needed cheap tactics to win the 2nd match and escaped with a victory by the skin of his teeth for the 3rd match. So he kept working the clock and he scored the win.

 

Colt/Danielson, was a completely different match. It was pushed throughout that weekend that if there was a draw and there was only one fall, the winner of that fall gets the victory.

 

Guess what happened? Colt got a flash victory early in the match. (which was a throwback to their first match in April where Danielson won in just 6 minutes).

 

That meant Danielson couldn't play on the defensive side anymore. He NEEDED to pin/submit Cabana before time ran out. What happened? He takes a legitimate shoulder injury.

 

Instead of being in control, Danielson was scrambling to score a victory and he resorted to cheating with just 30 seconds to go to steal a quick fall and that meant time expired. Danielson, chased Cabana(in his hometown) for 45 minutes trying to score the tie and once he realized he wasn't going to get it done the honorable way, he cheats and escapes with the title.

 

-

 

The only thing that was identical was the result "Bryan Danielson wins a 60 minute draw" but the match and the road followed throughout the matches were completely different.

So it was used for gimmick matches. Ok that works. I thought they just had 3 regular matches do a broadway finish.

 

Joe/Danielson, wasn't a gimmick. However, the crowd was clued in that it would be a draw (just like the fans in Chicago were aware that JvP2 was going broadway) and yet the crowd still eats it up and forgets the logical nature that it was heading towards, which is a tremendous testament to each men's ability to play the crowd.

 

I'll take Danielson's 60 minute draws over Hart and HHH's forced iron-man matches where the match isn't built until the final segment. A pre-set 60 minute match rarely works because you can't convince a crowd to care until the final segment.

 

ROH has really done a great job of making the 60 minute draws mean something. In the NWA days, they were so common place that the fans just accepted it. ROH blends the ability of utilizing that NWA mind-set but works it enough that they still seem special and stand out. They have also done a good job of making certain matches appear to be an obvious broad-way match only to cut it off at the 56 minute mark (Strong/Danielson III, for example).

 

You seem to treat the notion of a 60 minute draw as weak booking where in the instance of Danielson's reign, it's been beautifully crafted.

 

My only real gripe with Danielson's reign is that he constantly defends the title and he has now went through repeat challengers

 

Strong-4 shots.

Nigel-4 shots.

Cabana-3 shots.

Delirious-3 shots.

Joe-2 shots (but three matches)

 

He has also worked 2 matches per night on multiple occasions throughout his reign and it's nearing the edge of overkill but he has managed to be so effective that you can neglect that aspect.

[Scroby 0]

What is with the three time limit draws in August? Did ROH not have any better ideas on building contenders while keeping the champion strong?

 

I'm just curiou

The idea was to make Danielson a throwback to NWA champions of old, where they'd regularly do 60:00 draws.

Sounds like a bad to way to bring back the time limit draws. Should have spaced them out a bit.

 

Hardly. It's just a case of fans being so adjusted to shorter matches and that even in ROH, that fanbase isn't quite comfortable yet with broadway matches.

 

People still see it as "going 60 for the sake of going 60". That was the case for the many marathon matches that Punk and Hero did but here with Danielson, it has absolute substance. Danielson's physical endurance has been his strongest attribute throughout his FANTASTIC reign (better then Joe's, even).

 

It's a case of them doing a throwback to the old school but obviously building to a situation where Danielson's fuel tank expires. It's been well built that Danielson keeps fighting for 60 minute draws and eventually, when he does drop that title, that whole aspect will play a key role in it.

 

I don't think doing 3 broadway matches in 6 weeks is really that bad as all three matches upon the reports have been completely different in style and execution.

So they're using it to help promote Danielson? K. I guess I should have been more speicfic. I ment using the same finish so many times in a month. It gets old with a crowd fast. Thats what I ment spacing it out a bit.

 

It's hardly the same match and finish.

 

Danielson/Joe was them going at it non-stop in a intense battle that Joe simply ran out of time (similar to Punk for WTC and JvP2) and couldn't score the victory.

 

The next two were 2/3 falls.

 

Danielson/Nigel, was Danielson knowing that no one takes him to the limit like Nigel does. So he was trying for the draw after Nigel took the second fall. He knew that he needed cheap tactics to win the 2nd match and escaped with a victory by the skin of his teeth for the 3rd match. So he kept working the clock and he scored the win.

 

Colt/Danielson, was a completely different match. It was pushed throughout that weekend that if there was a draw and there was only one fall, the winner of that fall gets the victory.

 

Guess what happened? Colt got a flash victory early in the match. (which was a throwback to their first match in April where Danielson won in just 6 minutes).

 

That meant Danielson couldn't play on the defensive side anymore. He NEEDED to pin/submit Cabana before time ran out. What happened? He takes a legitimate shoulder injury.

 

Instead of being in control, Danielson was scrambling to score a victory and he resorted to cheating with just 30 seconds to go to steal a quick fall and that meant time expired. Danielson, chased Cabana(in his hometown) for 45 minutes trying to score the tie and once he realized he wasn't going to get it done the honorable way, he cheats and escapes with the title.

 

-

 

The only thing that was identical was the result "Bryan Danielson wins a 60 minute draw" but the match and the road followed throughout the matches were completely different.

So it was used for gimmick matches. Ok that works. I thought they just had 3 regular matches do a broadway finish.

 

Joe/Danielson, wasn't a gimmick. However, the crowd was clued in that it would be a draw (just like the fans in Chicago were aware that JvP2 was going broadway) and yet the crowd still eats it up and forgets the logical nature that it was heading towards, which is a tremendous testament to each men's ability to play the crowd.

 

I'll take Danielson's 60 minute draws over Hart and HHH's forced iron-man matches where the match isn't built until the final segment. A pre-set 60 minute match rarely works because you can't convince a crowd to care until the final segment.

 

ROH has really done a great job of making the 60 minute draws mean something. In the NWA days, they were so common place that the fans just accepted it. ROH blends the ability of utilizing that NWA mind-set but works it enough that they still seem special and stand out. They have also done a good job of making certain matches appear to be an obvious broad-way match only to cut it off at the 56 minute mark (Strong/Danielson III, for example).

 

You seem to treat the notion of a 60 minute draw as weak booking where in the instance of Danielson's reign, it's been beautifully crafted.

 

My only real gripe with Danielson's reign is that he constantly defends the title and he has now went through repeat challengers

 

Strong-4 shots.

Nigel-4 shots.

Cabana-3 shots.

Delirious-3 shots.

Joe-2 shots (but three matches)

 

He has also worked 2 matches per night on multiple occasions throughout his reign and it's nearing the edge of overkill but he has managed to be so effective that you can neglect that aspect.

...by now I should probably point out that I don't follow ROH and know nothing about Danielson's reign. I actually feel that broadway finish bookings (not iron man matches) should be done every once in a great while and it should be done when it involves VERY GOOD wrestlers that put on a great match that keep the fans on the edge of their seat. Thats how I feel about broadway bookings.

[Hawk 34 0]

...by now I should probably point out that I don't follow ROH and know nothing about Danielson's reign. I actually feel that broadway finish bookings (not iron man matches) should be done every once in a great while and it should be done when it involves VERY GOOD wrestlers that put on a great match that keep the fans on the edge of their seat. Thats how I feel about broadway bookings.

 

That's cool and you'd have to get the actual content and see why it works so well because it isn't broadway matches done for the sake of it. That's exactly what you're getting here, VERY GOOD wrestlers putting on fantastic matches getting fans involved.

 

The instance of using three of those finishes in six week period is to put over Danielson along with Joe, Nigel (especially Nigel) and Cabana by showcasing three very different approaches to 60 minute matches.

 

Prior to this series, ROH had only done three broadway matches (the first two installments of Joe/Punk and Punk/Daniels). That's three guys primarily involved in these matches with 4 1/2 year history with some amazing workers that have walked through those curtains.

 

Considering how many people worked 60 minutes with Race anf Flair in the 80's, it's sort of refreshing to see that limited number of people going 60 in ROH.

 

The worse offense of "broadway" was Shane Douglas and Tully Blanchard. That was booking for the sake of going broadway.

[Guest ResidentEvil]

ROH has gone way overboard booking all these sixty minute draws. Perhaps we can have 10 more this week. It's a joke now and they don't mean anything. The next thing they'll do is bring some fan out of the stands and he can have a sixty minute draw. The draws are hurting Dragon's credibility just like it would hurt Kobashi, Marafjuji or Edge's cred if they went sixty minutes all the time.

 

One of the differences when comparing long title defences in the NWA is that the NWA toured everywhere and everyone didn't get to see the champ go long with every contender out there. People didn't get to see one of my local wrestling heros go 90 minutes with Terry Funk, people in Canada didn't get to see Flair go long with Jumbo or Morton, people in "name your location" didn't get to.... and so on. The fans "only" got to see their guy take the champ to the limit so it meant something and it made sense.

ROH relies a lot on its Internet fan base in the year 2006. All of its fans know what happens in their day to day operations. When you see everyone taking the champ to the limit, it just doesn't make sense.

 

If the fans like a million sixty minute draws than you might be able to make a debate that it'd be a good idea to book so many, but even than all logic says it'll backfire evenutally in several different ways. I think ROH may even realise deep down in their gut despite their fandom of them. I know I'm being tough on them here but I actually don't blame them too much for doing so because I think it's tough to book opposite your fandom at times.

[Hawk 34 0]

Once again, there is a difference between doing a 60 minute draw with a purpose and doing it for the sake of doing it and ROH isn’t doing it for the sake of doing. This isn’t Chris Hero and his masturbatory marathon matches. I covered why all three of the matches worked out despite the fact all three of them went 60.

 

None of the matches were comparable, all had a different objective.

 

Draw #1-Put over the equality between Dragon and Joe. No different then Punk and Joe in 2004. A ferocious, well worked match that served to put each man over and to extend a money program. That’s logical booking right there.

 

Draw #2

Nigel McGuiness won the 1st match via count-out, in order to preserve his championship reign. It was presented that Danielson had been outsmarted here, something he wasn’t used to.

Danielson realized he was heading that direction in the re-match, so he used the “under the ring” ploy to capitalize and score a flash pin.

The third match was a decisive match to unify the two singles titles but it was emphasized that Danielson had never came that close to losing throughout his title reign. This time, neither used nefarious means to win.

They booked the 4th match to be a 2/3 fall match and that match had Danielson playing defense and pushing for the draw. He got that and used the advantages this time (like Nigel did in the first encounter)

 

Draw #3

Danielson defeated Cabana in 6 minutes in April (after spending 6 months doing brawls with Homicide and CZW) This played an important part in the final title shot he would receive.

Cabana returned the favor and stole a fall from Danielson very early in the match. Cabana knew that he really can’t beat Danielson under normal circumstances so he had to pull a trick from Danielson’s own playbook and force the issue of a draw and knowing the title would change via the one fall rule, he worked towards it. Danielson had to chase and struggle. He spent the whole time trying to out-wrestle Cabana, but after so many title defenses and a 60 minute draw the previous night, he really was running on fumes. He had to cheat to win, something he felt he wouldn’t need to do with Colt Cabana.

 

That’s three different matches all worked completely differently. It’s like complaining that a promotion worked 3 straight cage matches in a month against 3 different people and they all ended with the same guy hitting the floor first with the escape finish. Does that automatically deject the importance of the match? No.

 

That’s what those draws were about. 3 challengers who keep getting the champion on the ropes but the champ got away by some means. It puts over the champion as a fighter and his willingness to win, puts over the ability of two men many didn’t think could hang with the champion (this series with Danielson made Nigel McGuiness a SUPERSTAR main event caliber name for ROH) and re-established Cabana’s ability after months of being a glorified brawler and tag team partner for hire.

 

That’s why these matches worked so well, because they all served a greater purpose then just putting over a champion's endurance and doing 60 minute draws for the sake of doing 60 minute draws. It’s not weak booking, its called building your talent and getting them over. It’s a foreign concept in this day and age but ROH pulls it off in this particular instance. The part about it burning out the fan-base is ludicrous because the heart of their core fan base that makes ROH a profitable promotion eats up work-rate and as long as they deliver the quality, they'll buy it. The reason some people are complaining is because, as I alluded earlier, it’s the nature of the wrestling business and the progression of the general fan base to be much more apathetic towards something that requires lengthy viewing.

 

ROH is built as a bridge from the days of NWA with the constant touring in specific cities, the longer matches and more wrestling based approach with the modern adaptation of the internet, DVD sales and implemented storylines more along the lines of early ECW. That’s how its marketed to its fan base and it succeeds in that effort.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I'm not a big ROH fan, although I find some of the stuff they do interesting. That said, I think the idea of a 60 minute draw happening regularly in 2006 is a bit ridiculous. Guys like the Funks, Thesz, Flair, Steamboat wrestled pretty much a mat based style. It makes sense that a pinfall or submission might not always occur within the first 60 minutes of a match. Also, many of these matches would never have been seen or even read about by most fans throughout the country (as another poster noted in this thread already).

 

I admit to not be totally familiar with some of ROH's wrestlers, but it's pretty unbelievable to think that Samoa Joe couldn't beat a guy after 60 minutes of kicking, elbowing, and suplexing the crap out of the champion. When guys are wrestling a much more impactful, and high energy style than the guys in the '70s and '80s, how can anyone really believe a 60 minute draw could occur?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

...but it's pretty unbelievable to think that Samoa Joe couldn't beat a guy after 60 minutes of kicking, elbowing, and suplexing the crap out of the champion. When guys are wrestling a much more impactful, and high energy style than the guys in the '70s and '80s, how can anyone really believe a 60 minute draw could occur?

Wait until you see the match. Chances are pretty good that the story told will make it seem credible that Danielson was able to last 60:00 with Joe.

[Hawk 34 0]

I'm not a big ROH fan, although I find some of the stuff they do interesting. That said, I think the idea of a 60 minute draw happening regularly in 2006 is a bit ridiculous. Guys like the Funks, Thesz, Flair, Steamboat wrestled pretty much a mat based style. It makes sense that a pinfall or submission might not always occur within the first 60 minutes of a match. Also, many of these matches would never have been seen or even read about by most fans throughout the country (as another poster noted in this thread already).

 

I admit to not be totally familiar with some of ROH's wrestlers, but it's pretty unbelievable to think that Samoa Joe couldn't beat a guy after 60 minutes of kicking, elbowing, and suplexing the crap out of the champion. When guys are wrestling a much more impactful, and high energy style than the guys in the '70s and '80s, how can anyone really believe a 60 minute draw could occur?

 

Since you aren't aware of the wrestlers, you should know that Nigel, Colt and Danielson are major mat wrestlers.

[World's Worst Man 0]

60 minute matches do stick out like sore thumbs in this day and age, just because the average wrestling match is paced a lot faster than it was in the 70's and 80's. So whereas back then, a 60 minute match might not look much different than was typical, today you can completely see a 60 minute match coming just by how much slower the match is wrestled, and how many time-wasting shortcuts are taken. It can lead to a contrived sort of feeling surrounding the match. I do think it can be done well, it's just difficult.

[canadafour 0]

Does anybody remember Jose and Joel Maximo being signed to the new ECW in May of this year, but then nothing was ever said about it?

[Guest Connzilla]

It was just a rumor.

[Hawk 34 0]

Thankfully, someone still has sense in that office and didn't actually sign those guys.