Shawn Michaels says WHAT?

[Guest papacita]

Maybe so, but what exactly did Shawn say about Austin that was bad from a shoot standpoint?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I am surprised no one touched on the 'I am not going to wrestle' part of his speech..which BTW seemed VERY rehearsed, as in 'had a full week to think of it' rehearsed.  Which we won't be seeing any more since HBK is on Smackdown now too. Therefore this is probably the only GOOD promo we will be hearing outta shawn for the rest of his stay..and since he isnt wrestling, we will be hearing a lot more, and more, and more of his promos to come.  YAY.

[Guest liberal]

do you all think that shawn michaels should win the hardcore belt?  This would bring some creditability back to the belt and would help elavate "justin hawk" bradshaw to ME status.

 

"Tommy dreamer being sick is just like the start of the attitude era where austin swore at people" - Simon Lilsboys 2002

[Guest Vyce]

I can honestly say that after hearing Shawn's promo last night, I got angrier at a wrestling product than I think I have in years.  It made me seething inside.  I'm still angry at it all.

 

You all can sit back and love your drama between wrestlers, I just see it for what it is - the Cliq back in control again.  And while some of you may be looking at that prospect with starry eyes, I lived through the prior Cliq domination of the WWF.  I've been a fan long enough to remember how it just about bankrupted the company, financially and creatively.  For all of you who are going, "oh, Vince won't let them get out of control", remember back to the last time they ran things, when Vince ABSOLUTELY let them get out of control.  And I feel it happening again.

 

I hope Austin leaves while he can.

 

I hope the Rock does the sensible thing, retires to Hollywood, makes a bunch of forgettable action flicks and rakes in the millions.

 

I wish both Steve and Duane all the luck in the world, cause they're both better off not dealing with the merry band of assholes in the Cliq.

 

Seems to me like The Rock had this one coming.  Not to mention the Tonight Show comment at HHH.  Why?  What the hell does Triple H's demands for a push have to do with The Scorpion King?

 

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe the Rock's comments were in defense of guys like his friend, Chris Jericho, who has come up on the wrong end of HHH's political power all too often?

[Guest notJames]

I can honestly say that after hearing Shawn's promo last night, I got angrier at a wrestling product than I think I have in years.  It made me seething inside.  I'm still angry at it all.

 

You all can sit back and love your drama between wrestlers, I just see it for what it is - the Cliq back in control again.  And while some of you may be looking at that prospect with starry eyes, I lived through the prior Cliq domination of the WWF.  I've been a fan long enough to remember how it just about bankrupted the company, financially and creatively.  For all of you who are going, "oh, Vince won't let them get out of control", remember back to the last time they ran things, when Vince ABSOLUTELY let them get out of control.  And I feel it happening again.

 

I hope Austin leaves while he can.

 

I hope the Rock does the sensible thing, retires to Hollywood, makes a bunch of forgettable action flicks and rakes in the millions.

 

I wish both Steve and Duane all the luck in the world, cause they're both better off not dealing with the merry band of assholes in the Cliq.

Amen.

[Guest]

Ok, this could go into a new topic but, does anyone else think that the draft is the stupidest thing ever? It is the breaking point for the WWF's demise.

I can understand now why the NWO is back, they litterally ARE going to destroy the WWF. It started as an angle, but now it has come true. By recruiting the worst possible talent and getting Micheals back to say whatever the hell he feels like saying, the company is going to collapse. The NWO is now going to control the booking and put their crappy members in main events, it will force the viewers to avert their eyes and watch something else. The poison has infected.

[Guest]

I cant believe some of the responses in this thread.  People touting Austin's commitment to the company, and "professional attitude", and that he deserves better, please walking out twice in three months is more unprofessional than anything the Kliq ever did, at least when Shawn lost his smile he still fucking showed up and handed the belt over.  He didnt leave the company without an explanation given by him to the fans.

 

And shit that HBK interview was the greatest interview in years, and was the highlight of the night, I would be more tha happy to see more of that from HBK, shit I hope Shawn continues to shoot all over Austin and Rocky, u know why? Because that way maybe it will light a fire under their ass and Austin will actually put some effort in, and give a real interview rather then "im driving down the highway (what), chewing a stick of gum (what), and maybe rocky will realize that he has a lot of unfinished business in the WWE and that he better get his ass back for more than 2 months a year, because this is the sport he owes his career too.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

1wrestling.com reported that the comment from Michaels about the Rock was not a shoot, he had permission to use it and it was planned as part of his promo. As a fan of the Rock, I think it worked very well, and I hope Michaels keeps doing it. Then when the Rock comes back he can get Michaels to fight him. A Rock-Michaels matchup at SummerSlam perhaps would be a dream match and probably do good business as well.

[Guest]

RAW was a complete load of crap. But I started a new thread to focus on the Shawn Michaels interview. So much for Michaels being a changed man. First chance he gets an live mic, and he immediately goes against script to take potshots at the Kliq's political enemies.

 

I can't believe Michaels actually had the gall to say that Rock tries to steal Hunter's spotlight? What a frigging joke. When it comes to star power and mainstream appeal, Triple H couldn't even hold Rock's jock. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more after he called Kevin Nash one of the biggest names in the industry, said the NWO was the most feared group and said X-Pac was the best worker in the industry.

 

But at least his kissing up the NWO made sense in the storylines. How exactly does this fit into the storylines? Triple H is a face. Rock is a face. They have not been feuding for 2 years now. It just makes everyone go "huh." Did he run out of time to make cracks on Jericho?

 

And Michaels might as well have just come out and said "Austin did not beat me...this is fake...Vince decided that Austin should win." It would have served the same purpose as his whining. I knew as soon as Michaels made those comments that Austin must have had another falling out with WWE.

 

It's probably already too late, but I hope Rock was watching the show tonight. From Vince's comment about Austin not having balls, it appears that Triple H has won his war with Austin. Rock's pretty much the only one left who could have any say with Vince to stand up to this crap. If ratings keep sinking, the more power Rock potentially has over Vince when Vinces comes begging for Rock to return. Hopefully Rock will take advantage of the situation this time.

 

And if these "shoot" promos are supposed to get people talking. Then why don't we make it a fair fight and give Rock or Jericho or Austin a live mic on RAW to say whatever they please.

I agree with your entire post, bcu...say what you want about the Rock and Austin (we all love Jericho) but what I saw on Raw last night was complete BULLSHIT, EGO STROKING ASS MUNCHING  from the kliq! Those comments on the Rock and Austin were completely unprofessional on Michael's part. Now I suppose with VKM back in full control, HHH will do his heel turn and join his buddies. Maybe that was the plan all along...I don't know, but I'm pissed off about this! And yeah, I will mark out like a teenage girl for the Hardyz if Austin, Rock and Jericho decide to come out together and get some payback. I've tried to be as open minded as possible about all the flack people on this board give Trips, but I am convinced now. I think we should all send e-mails to Austin, Rock and Jericho and challenge them to not take this shit lying down!

[Guest papacita]

Honestly, I think you all just want controversy. You're making a lot more out of this than it actually is.

[Guest TheDames7]

Austin dicked over Eddy and Benoit.

 

BIG TIME.

....I didn't even think about that..

 

NOW i'm pissed off!

 

Dames

[Guest Some Guy]

The only thing about HBK's segment I didn't like was that Booker was kicked out of nWo instead of breaking out of it.  I thought the way Shawn did it was cool but Booker should have been allowed to at least fight of X-Pac and Nash after the kick and then get punked out at least then he wouldn't look like a complete chump.

 

The HHH/Rock comment is nothing big IMO.

[Guest Vyce]

1wrestling.com reported that the comment from Michaels about the Rock was not a shoot, he had permission to use it and it was planned as part of his promo. As a fan of the Rock, I think it worked very well, and I hope Michaels keeps doing it. Then when the Rock comes back he can get Michaels to fight him. A Rock-Michaels matchup at SummerSlam perhaps would be a dream match and probably do good business as well.

Except that Michaels' time in the ring is pretty much over; it's highly unlikely he will ever return to the ring again, and even so, with the shape his back is in, he probably wouldn't be able to bump half as good as Hogan.

 

Plus, let's also realize the fact that Rock is a Smackdown star...while the nWo is Raw brand.  Unless the roster split is going to end soon (and so far, nothing points to that), than Michaels comments towards Rock don't work from a storyline perspective, since Rock will never feud with the nWo or HBK.

 

So what does that leave us with?

 

It means that the comments were made simply as a person, politically-motivated insult aimed straight at Rock.

 

An insult, I must point out, which was approved by management.

 

Since I've already pointed out that no storyline exists or will exist between the nWo / Michaels and the Rock, and also since the comment itself was probably only understood by us smart fans, there was NO NEED WHATSOEVER for Michaels to throw out that remark.  Except to insult Rocky, no doubt because of Hunter's petty jealousy of the Rock (not to mention his outrage at Rock's hints that some people in the locker room are a little too in love with their political power).

 

Bottom line, it was a petty, personal insult that had no purpose in Michaels promo.

 

And yet, it was approved by management.  You can see how I am suddenly very, very worried about how much power the Cliq has again.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

The big problem I have with Michaels being in the NWO is the fact that he's done as a wrestler. He can make all the comments he wants, he still can't get in the ring and deliver a payoff. To my knowledge, he has only wrestled one match since he put over Austin at Wrestlemania 14, and that was years ago. If there is a longshot chance that he can wrestle, I'm sure Vince would demand more than one match out of Michaels, and I doubt that his back would be able to handle it. I think it's pretty good that Michaels is back as a heel because he can add to the NWO what Hogan wasn't able to.

 

As far as his comments about Triple H, I took them as something that was rehearsed and not a shoot. At this point, I think Triple H should be a part of the NWO, but I could see them running wild just like in WCW, and I don't know if the upside of that woud outweigh the risks.

[Guest]

Now I suppose with VKM back in full control, HHH will do his heel turn and join his buddies. Maybe that was the plan all along...

 

You can bet on the return of a certain whining, screeching bitch, too.  Because that's what gets ratings... </sarcasm>

[Guest]

Austin dicked over Eddy and Benoit.

 

BIG TIME.

 

But did he really? I mean, it wasn't exactly premeditated on his part was it? "Let's see, I'll ask for a feud with Benoit and that Latino Heat guy, whatshisname, then I'll have someone piss me off so much by scripting a match that has nothing to do with them and that they know I'd never agree to, forcing me to walk out again and leave those two bastards hanging. Geez, why didn't I think of this for Hall and Nash?"

 

As opposed to whoever came up with the brilliant idea of suddenly yanking Austin away from Eddy, Benoit and Flair and jobbing him to Lesnar. They certainly must have had a few moments to think about what Austin's reaction to that idea might've been. So who's dicking whom?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

CAuse and Effect.

 

Eddy loses the IC title and is given a program with Austin.

 

Benoit comes in to be against Austin too...his sole reasoning being revenge over his injury.

 

Now Austin wlks out and Eddy is left with no direction...and the Benoit return is a complete waste.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The fact that Benoits return was so lacklustre gave me no hope whatsoever for his future.  He would have beat Austin, then what?  HHH?  He would have jobbed to him and then would go back to fighting Jericho and Angle.  This just eliminates false hope.

[Guest justcoz]

All of you talk about what a terror the Clique were to the locker room like you were there.  Like your push was sidetracked by Big Daddy Cool and The Bad Guy being in Vince McMahon's ear.  We know nothing beyond what such trustworthy legends such as Shane Douglas, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jeff Jarrett and Max Payne have said in bitter post WWF interviews.

 

It wasn't the Clique that were responsible for the decline of WWF business during that particular era.  It was Duke The Dumpster, babyface Doink, Sparky Plug, The Goon, orange Crush, Bastian Booger, Man Mountain Rock and whatever countless embarassing uninteresting gimmicks and angles there were at that time.

 

This was an era where Bob Backlund was given the WWF Title.

 

Also, I find it interesting that Bret Hart never spoke too much about the Clique at that time.  His heat was with Michaels in later years but not when the gang had all this "creative control".

 

Fact of the matter is that HBK, Diesel and Razor Ramon were three of the most over characters in the company.  This was never more evident then when Nash and Hall jumped ship to WCW.  The reason the NWO gimmick, a mock WWF invasion, worked was because Hall and Nash were pretty much the most over and popular guys coming from that company.  So much to the point that television viewers followed them to Nitro.

 

And to compete the WWF spawned the HBK/HHH version of DX.  So like it or not a boom period for this business came from the Clique.  Their antics didn't destroy careers.  It made for funny and entertaining television and contributed to the payoffs that those other guys in the locker room did receive.  Henry Godwinn is probably living pretty comfortable not because of his classics with Bart and Billy Gunn but because of HBK's 45 minute main events.

 

Like them or not, each of these men have minds for this business.  Michaels was Attitude before it was a catch phrase.  Listen to Scott Hall's online interview, he know this business.   Nash may have sucked as a booker but he knew enough to be one.  Triple H could even own the business someday because he's intelligent enough to boink the bosses daughter.  

 

I fail to see how people can support Austin walking away from his employer, screwing Benoit, Eddie and Flair from storylines they spent the past few weeks dedicating themselves to, leaving the writers to scramble and rewrite an entire show as heroic.

 

I fail to see how The Rock isn't being trashed for abandoning the company which made him, marketed his film to Hollywood success, at a time when that very company needs him the most.  He could still work television and PPV's around his schmoozing.

 

Damn HBK for being the most interesting thing on RAW last night.

[Guest]

Yeah, alright, Austin leaving certainly doesn't help those guys, and Benoit probably gets the worst of it. Guerrero just has to go back to being another directionless guy without a title, as opposed to the directionless guy with a title he was beforehand. Hey, maybe he could feud with RVD over the I-C belt? (Wow, is anyone else loving how much this roster split really opens up the potential storylines?)

 

Benoit's return is blown unless Austin comes back, but I can't believe that they wouldn't have wasted it anyway. Form must hold. Look on the bright side though, if he's going to be stuck on RAW he could always feud with the Undertaker over, like, bikes or something really cool like that. X-Pac's another main-eventer in need of a feud. And no, death will not be an option for Mr. Benoit.

 

I just don't like the word "dicking" here, to me it implies that Austin intended to do this to them and I don't see any evidence of that. Unless he's suddenly started banging the head writer.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Um Nash was the lowest drawing champ, Hall was nothing but IC division living off his ladder matches with michaels, and the Wwfs success came a year AFTER HBK left.

 

The reason why the NWO was successful was because WCW put them over top stars, not because they were top stars.

 

This was the era Bob Backlund won the title in a heated feud with Bret Hart w/ one of the most dramatic finishes to a match in wwf history..and lost the title the next night in 11 seconds.... TO NASH.

 

So you would rather take the word of the kliq than the word of countless other wrestlers? Psst, your bias is showing.  

 

Nash was a horrible booker yet he knew enough to be one?  So he knew enough to drive the company further down... yeah, okey dokie.  I am leaving this discussion now...

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Lesse...

 

"Fact of the matter is that HBK, Diesel and Razor Ramon were three of the most over characters in the company."

 

Over doesnt mean draw...see Hogan, Hulk.

 

"This was never more evident then when Nash and Hall jumped ship to WCW.  The reason the NWO gimmick, a mock WWF invasion, worked was because Hall and Nash were pretty much the most over and popular guys coming from that company.  So much to the point that television viewers followed them to Nitro."

 

Revisionist History.  No one cared about Hall and Nash showing up in WCW.  Not enough to dent ratings OR pop the crowd.  Not until Hogan joined and turned heel did the ratings go up and fans actually care.  WCW fans were bread to not give a shit about the WWF guys.  Hogan wasn't even liked by the WCW crowds for a while...and after he was...his heel turn is what brought the angle...not the outsiders.  It wasn't until much later that the Outsiders rose to popularity in WCW.  

 

 

"Like them or not, each of these men have minds for this business."  

 

Which they use to get whatever they want.

 

 

"Michaels was Attitude before it was a catch phrase."

 

Are you stating an opinion or just repeating what he said?

 

Either way...the FACT of the matter is that while HBK may have been "attitude" before "attitude" era...his brand of Attitude didnt draw shit...while Austins era made Vince a billionare.

 

 

"I fail to see how The Rock isn't being trashed for abandoning the company which made him, marketed his film to Hollywood success, at a time when that very company needs him the most.  He could still work television and PPV's around his schmoozing."

 

The easy answer is that Vince let him go.  PERIOD.

 

 

"Damn HBK for being the most interesting thing on RAW last night. "

 

Sorry...but it was RVD and Eddy that took that honor...again.  So why don't we push them and not a guy who doesn't even wrestle.

 

 

And point in fact...I don't even support Austin...but I would easily support his decision to walk out before any of the just plain wrong things that you typed.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Note: Benoits return was ruined the instant he didn't get a single montage ala HHH.

 

Note: Benoit would have been burried after the Austin storyline anyways.

 

Note: Eddie too.

[Guest]

"Fact of the matter is that HBK, Diesel and Razor Ramon were three of the most over characters in the company."

 

Great, now that Austin's gone, that means Triple-H is clearly the most over guy in the company. Now all we have to do is keep burying or getting rid of guys (Jericho, Angle, RVD, Booker T, Albert) until Nash and Michaels ascend to their rightful spots as second and third most over. Let's hope we don't have to do the same with X-Pac or everyone's gone except Bossman.

 

"Like them or not, each of these men have minds for this business."  

 

What, are you their agent?

 

"I fail to see how The Rock isn't being trashed for abandoning the company which made him, marketed his film to Hollywood success, at a time when that very company needs him the most.  He could still work television and PPV's around his schmoozing."

 

Trashed? Are you kidding? What the hell else is he going to do? How much did they pay him for Scorpion King? He'd be a complete moron to stay.

[Guest bcu1979]

All of you talk about what a terror the Clique were to the locker room like you were there.  Like your push was sidetracked by Big Daddy Cool and The Bad Guy being in Vince McMahon's ear.  We know nothing beyond what such trustworthy legends such as Shane Douglas, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jeff Jarrett and Max Payne have said in bitter post WWF interviews.

 

I fail to see how The Rock isn't being trashed for abandoning the company which made him, marketed his film to Hollywood success, at a time when that very company needs him the most.  He could still work television and PPV's around his schmoozing.

Hardcore Holly talked about how much everything sucked backstage when the Kliq was running the show just a couple months ago in an interview on wwe.com. The writer kept trying to get him to say it wasn't that bad, but Holly had none of that. And Holly is one of the few wrestlers still around from those days.

 

I believe Taker also made some comments in an interview on wwe.com after the NWO returned.

 

As for bashing Rock. You make it sound like he just told Vince he was leaving for Hollywood one day out of the blue. Rock did not just walk out and leave the WWE in a lurch. Vince knew Rock would be leaving for a while to promote his movie and he knew Rock was burnt out from working 7 days a week to get Scorpion King ready on time. Rock mentioned in several interviews how he was working for the WWE 2 days a week and he was in LA the rest of the week doing re-shoots for Scorpion King for several months. Rock earned some time off.

Rock also continues to make money for the WWE since Vince gets a cut out of all of Rock's movies.

 

Rock also spent all fall/winter doing his best to elevate Chris Jericho to main event status so that the WWE would have a new star to go along with the usual main event faces, while Rock was busy making movies. It's not Rock's fault that Triple H and Stephanie set out to destroy Jericho's career and ruin all of Rock (and Jericho's) hard work just so Stephanie could be the focus of the main event of WrestleMania and Triple H could feel more secure about his main event spot.

[Guest Patorick]

Truer words are yet to be written

[Guest caboose]

Personally I hope Michaels continues to shoot on Rocky for the next few months.

They could make an angle out of it with HBK goading Rocky back like Austin did to Bret in 1996. And when Rocky returns the pop will be huge.

But I really hope HBK keeps ripping Rocky, cos if Rocky does comes back, the promo he shoots all over HBK, the nWo, the Clique and Triple H will be potentially the most amazing promo EVER.

[Guest]

Personally I hope Michaels continues to shoot on Rocky for the next few months.

They could make an angle out of it with HBK goading Rocky back like Austin did to Bret in 1996. And when Rocky returns the pop will be huge.

But I really hope HBK keeps ripping Rocky, cos if Rocky does comes back, the promo he shoots all over HBK, the nWo, the Clique and Triple H will be potentially the most amazing promo EVER.

Amen....and you know that we will all be glued to our seats, laughing our asses off.  Man. I gotta keep watching just for that!

[Guest the 1inch punch]

Note: Benoits return was ruined the instant he didn't get a single montage ala HHH.

 

Note: Benoit would have been burried after the Austin storyline anyways.

 

Note: Eddie too.

Noted

[Guest justcoz]

Nash didn't draw as a champion because they took a Diesel character which was over from the Royal Rumble, gave him a Hulkamania rip off title victory and turned him into a bland babyface champion.  Remember his kissing babies promo?  The promo he cut months before leaving the WWF when he finally showed glimpses of the mic work that got him over in WCW?

 

The company at the time that the Clique reigned from a creative standpoint sucked!  See the gimmicks I mentioned before.  In my opinion, McMahon listened to them because he respected their minds for the business and he needed help.   The same minds that contributed to the creation of the NWO concept.  His help came later from Vince Russo.

 

Hall was only IC material?  So what?  That means he wasn't over?  I guess RVD isn't over either.  Living off his ladder matches with Shawn?  Matches which revolutionized the business in the states?  Pre hardcore and ECW.  Pre Hell In The Cell's.  People just can't stand the fact that two Clique guys had such classic matches.  HBK is an ass and Scott Hall is a drunk.

 

To say that The Outsiders jumping to WCW didn't jump start the company is bs!  Oh, they just got over because they beat WCW top stars like Rey Rey and Lex Luger?  They got over because they were funny, entertaining and for that time period "cool".  People enjoyed watching them.

 

Hall and Nash became more popular when Hogan turning heel sparked grown up former Hulkamaniac's interest and casual viewers came.  Still, Hall's debut was the turning point for that company when it came to their dominance for years to come.  

 

Same thing with Michaels and HHH's version of DX.  They were the turning point for the Attitude era.  Not the peak but by the time of WRestlemania with Tyson, DX were just as over and just as much of a known commodity as Austin 3:16.  Then, the true turning point came the next night when X Pac joined Hunter in DX.  Then the segments where DX went to WCW looking for Hall and Nash.  Nah, the Clique weren't over and weren't a major part of the business.

 

Seriously, you all read too much into your smarkdom.  We were all in a huff over HBK's shot at the Rock.  You know what people at my office were asking me?  Did you think Booker T knew that kick was coming?  That kick was awesome.  

 

That was the impression HBK's return left on them while smarks are playing taps because the Clique are going to pull their political games and kill pushes for our favorites in WWeeeeeee!  based on what management approved shoot on the Rock...