Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 "Damn HBK for being the most interesting thing on RAW last night. " Sorry...but it was RVD and Eddy that took that honor...again. So why don't we push them and not a guy who doesn't even wrestle That's why the crowd was dead throughout the match. That match drew as much heat as the Undertaker/Hardys segment. Not the peak but by the time of WRestlemania with Tyson, DX were just as over and just as much of a known commodity as Austin 3:16. If they were known, people sure as hell weren't buyingtheir t-shirts like they were buying the Austin 3:16 shirts. Living off his ladder matches with Shawn? Matches which revolutionized the business in the states? A) He had two of those matches B) Those matches were being done before Hall and Michaels did theirs. To say that The Outsiders jumping to WCW didn't jump start the company is bs! Oh, they just got over because they beat WCW top stars like Rey Rey and Lex Luger? They got over because they were funny, entertaining and for that time period "cool". People enjoyed watching them. Hogan was the main reason the NWO got over. The Outsiders played a big part in keeping the group over, but Hogan got the group over. Wrestlers have been joining and leaving promotions for a long time. When all of the AWA guys were showing up in the WWF, people weren't watching because they came form a different promotion. That's one of the million reasons that the Invasion never worked. It's the opposite of sports. The fans care more about the performers, than the organizations. As for bashing Rock. You make it sound like he just told Vince he was leaving for Hollywood one day out of the blue. Rock did not just walk out and leave the WWE in a lurch. Vince knew Rock would be leaving for a while to promote his movie and he knew Rock was burnt out from working 7 days a week to get Scorpion King ready on time. Rock mentioned in several interviews how he was working for the WWE 2 days a week and he was in LA the rest of the week doing re-shoots for Scorpion King for several months. Rock earned some time off. Rock also continues to make money for the WWE since Vince gets a cut out of all of Rock's movies. Rock also spent all fall/winter doing his best to elevate Chris Jericho to main event status so that the WWE would have a new star to go along with the usual main event faces, while Rock was busy making movies. It's not Rock's fault that Triple H and Stephanie set out to destroy Jericho's career and ruin all of Rock (and Jericho's) hard work just so Stephanie could be the focus of the main event of WrestleMania and Triple H could feel more secure about his main event spot. That's why I like the Rock. I don't like him as a wrestler, but I can respect him at times for what he does outside of the ring. As far as Stephanie McMahon goes, I don't think she conspired with Triple H to ruin Jericho's career, I just think she has a big ass ego. She made herself the focal point of the WM X8 Main Event the same way that she was the focal point of the Invasion. I doubt she wanted to ruin the Invasion, I think she just wanted to put her damn face on the camera.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 "That's why the crowd was dead throughout the match. That match drew as much heat as the Undertaker/Hardys segment." The RVD chants were louder than the HBK chants......so what is your point again? Hell...the RVD chant during the friggin armbar was louder than the reaction Shawn got. So...yeah...good point and stuff.
Guest Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 Seriously, you all read too much into your smarkdom. We were all in a huff over HBK's shot at the Rock. Whether or not HBK's shot at the rock was wrong is beside the point. It didn't make any SENSE. HGH is a face, who hasn't been even remotely related to the nWo since the group started. The Rock hasn't a been around for months and won't be around for months so that also affirms the comment's pointlessness. Unless the writing team is actually being creative and... you know... foreshadowing, it's just stupid for Shawn to even say anything. Now I know someone's going to say, "but he had permission..." That still doesn't make it right... what if he had permission to badmouth Owen Hart...
Guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 Who cares whos pops are louder and who is more over, as u stated about Hogan earlier, its what gets people talking. And in my part of town every mark is talking HBK, and talking about his return, and the subsequent promo he cut Monday, as well as that awesome Superkick, HBK actually sparks interest among marks, only behind Rocky, Austin, and Hogan face it. Oh and d-X shirts were in high demand back in Michaels day, their availability was shit though. Here in Canada we couldnt get a d-x shirt until they came to the country in the summer of '98, but everybody wanted one.
Guest Vyce Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 HBK actually sparks interest among marks Which reminds me again why I hate marks.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 Wouldn't it be great if new people were pushed instead of bringing in yet another guy from a past era? TO CUT PROMOS AND TAKE UP MORE TIME.
Guest justcoz Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 DX shirts were in pretty high demand around the time Austin 3:16 was at it's peak. Maybe not equal to Austin in sells but definitely the next biggest thing. Hogan contributed greatly to the NWO getting over in terms of peaking the curiosity of the same kid's who were Hulkamaniacs back in the day and their college buddies with his heel turn. Don't sit there and tell me that Hall and Nash had nothing to do with the group being as big as it was. Like I said, the momentum came with Hall's debut. It grew from there but people were talking about Nitro and The Outsiders well before Hogan's turn and the birth of the NWO. Hogan just took it to the next level but he was also leeching off of Nash and Hall's "coolness" and the fact that they were over. There would have been no "Hollywood" character if he wasn't paying attention and thinking to himself that Hall and Nash were onto something with their cool heels schtick. Hey, if you guys can talk about what happens backstage with Triple H and Stephanie plotting to bury Jericho, I can make the assumption that Hogan was influenced by Hall and Nash! I'm not disputing the fact that some of you make very valid points with the Clique's negative backstage influence. I just find it absolutely moronic that you would sit there and argue their influence in this business, what they've accomplished and the fact that they were over. To say that DX (HBK/HHH and the babyface team) had nothing to do with WWF Attitude becoming the next big thing is completely ridiculous!!! At a time when the undercard was Los Burriquas vs. NOD, DX along with Austin were the reason to tune in! HBK and HHH were undpredictable and controversial. Playing clips of the MSG Curtain Call was the beginning of the WWF "not insulting the fan's intelligence." It was them saying, these guys are friends with Hall and Nash who all of you are watching instead of us and they will be even more crass and controversial than those guys- STAY TUNED!!! Hell, that same Clique promo was one of the first times Vince McMahon let someone shoot on him on television. Going back even further, someone commented that ladder matches were done before Hall and Nash. Yeah, you're right! When were they done at the magnitude of a pay per view though? That match was the equivalent of Foley's Hell In the Cell for HBK. From that point on he had to bump like hell and sacrifice his body to make every suck ass PPV worth the $24.99 you were paying at that time. And he shortend his career because of this. So the smarks sit around and diss him for being an asshole? Being an asshole doesn't negate the fact that he was a great worker and an influential performer. You are marks for smart news and opinion hence the term smarks. It's actually quite sad because gossip and heresay blinds you from reality somewhat. The Outsiders had nothing to do with Nitro's dominence. DX had nothing to do with the success of Attitude. Razor vs. HBK or even Diesel ripping the artificial leg off of Mad Dog Vachon to use as a weapon against HBK has more notoriety in the U.S. scene than anything from Japan or Regal vs. Benoit from the Pillman show. There was no storyline reason for HBK's management approved shoot on The Rock and because of that it meant nothing to the general public who just saw the segment as a great superkick, the start of an eagerly anticipated and potentially huge (if they are smart) babyface run for Booker T and a classic WWE segment in the same vein as HBK kicking Marty Jannetty through the Barber Shop window which did SO MUCH to reestablish the NWO as a unit people are actually going to be interested in. I personally think it was management approved because they knew the sheets and all of you would be all over it to raise the smart communities interest in what comes out of HBK or Nash's mouth from now on. And you will be listening... justcoz PITTSBURGH NET RADIO - Pittsburgh has a music scene, NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKAS!!!
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 "That's why the crowd was dead throughout the match. That match drew as much heat as the Undertaker/Hardys segment." The RVD chants were louder than the HBK chants......so what is your point again? Hell...the RVD chant during the friggin armbar was louder than the reaction Shawn got. So...yeah...good point and stuff. The RVD chants must have been deafening because I didn't hear shit during the armbar sequence. I never mentioned the HBK chants, and the crowd always pops for Undertaker's entrance, just like they do for RVD's. They were silent during the promo, just like they were for most of the Guerrero/RVD match. You might be blinded by your love of the match, but that crowd was dead during that match. They popped for the high spots, just like they did during the Undertaker promo. BTW, nobody is saying that the Clique didn't contribute to wrestling in America, I'm just reminding people not to run away with stuff. Sure DX was popular, but they were no where near as popular as Austin was. They were popular, but not the main reason why everyone was watching RAW.
Guest Nater Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 You know why he's got an ego? He's more entertaining and creative than the people that try and script him. So bleh!
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 No one cared about Hall and Nash showing up in WCW. Not enough to dent ratings OR pop the crowd. The hell? When Hall was doing his "I got a big suprise" speech, Diesel chants were running through thecrowd. Hardcore Holly talked about how much everything sucked backstage when the Kliq was running the show just a couple months ago in an interview on wwe.com. The writer kept trying to get him to say it wasn't that bad, but Holly had none of that. And Holly is one of the few wrestlers still around from those days. Kind of funny since it was gimmick characters like Holly that hurt the company most.
Guest justcoz Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 Thank you Jobber!!! I was dying here!!! You know what though? I do remember reading something that the WWF was gearing up for a youth movement and were planning on pushing Sparky Plugg to the WWF Championship. Supposedly they were going to turn Aldo Montoya into the next top heel to give those two a run at main eventing but Diesel, Razor and Shawn threatened to walk out claiming that 123 Kid was more over than Aldo or Sparky and was more deserving of the run. Aldo was essentially bullied into running with the Clique for political reasons. Holly opted to hold hostility and resentment towards the Clique which was evident in his most recent WWE.COM interview... JUSTCOZ Pittsburgh Net Radio Pittsburgh has a music scene... NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKA!!!!
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Posted June 14, 2002 Report Posted June 14, 2002 Quote (bps21 @ June 12 2002,03:22) No one cared about Hall and Nash showing up in WCW. Not enough to dent ratings OR pop the crowd. The hell? When Hall was doing his "I got a big suprise" speech, Diesel chants were running through thecrowd. Bps likes to talk out of his ass sometimes.
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