NASCAR redneckery.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

So they're throwing beer cans at Jeff Gordon because he dared to win more races than Dale Earnhardt, who is dead. What a bunch of slobs. These are probably the people with Dale Earnhardt stickers on the rear windshields of their pickup trucks.

[Hawk 34 0]

It's Alabama. What would you expect? It's always good to have a 'villain' but you can't get more white-bread then Californian good looking corporate spokesman Jeff Gordon. What seems to get lost to these people is that Gordon and Earnhardt were close friends and business partners. Even Junior is telling these people how stupid this is. Yes, Senior made it a point to push the envelope in the rivalry with Gordon but that was because he was one of the first great marketing savvy guys in the industry and knew Gordon was the future. It's been over 12 years since that time period. Get off it.

 

Luckily, NASCAR has done a good job of extending its fanbase beyond these blockheads into different demographics and territories. Maybe soon it'll extinguish these people from the product.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

So are we still calling NASCAR a mainstream sport? I guess it is a mainstream sport. For hicks.

 

No, you are not going to "extinguish" cracker-ass Alabama rednecks from the NASCAR fanbase. What are they gonna watch? The NBA?

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Ive been watching NASCAR since 1994, the first race I watched was the very first Brickyard 400 won by Jeff Gordon. Jeff Gordon has NEVER been a popular driver with the hardcore fans from the south for many reasons, including the way he looks/talks (as Jeff Foxworthy put it, he "enunciates") and the fact that he was one of the first drivers from somewhere other than the south to do well (from California). He had a huge rivalry with Sr., but they never really made it a public issue of their relationship/good friends/business partners off the track. I dont think that would have made difference in what happened this weekend though.

 

The prior week in Phoenix, I dont think he should have done the victory lap waving the #3 flag when he tied Sr's win total. Had he done that at Taladega, somebody would have probably tried to kill him. They threw beer cans at him a couple years ago when he beat Jr in a controversial finish..so you just knew if he won on Sunday it would happen again. Sr fans embraced his son, and Ive been saying for a couple years now that if Jr wasn't Sr's son I dont think he'd be driving a car right now, as he's pretty much been riding his fathers legacy for the last 3 years or so.

 

Personally, I think its only going to get worse..Hes inevitably going to tie Sr's (and Richard Petty's) 7 championships (hes got 4 now, hasn't won won in 5 years) and if he manages 8 that will piss off a lot of the old school people. He'll never touch Richard Petty's 200 wins ever, but he has a good shot at being #2 if he races another 10 years or so. The Jeff Gordon hate hasn't been there at all over the last few years, but this year its escalated to as high as it was back in the late 90's when he was winning everything like he is now. NASCAR had been about parity with about 12-15 drivers that could win any given race but it seems this year as if its about 6 or so.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Talladega and Darlington are the real last vestiges for the true redneck fans.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

Right, and at the other racetracks, fans follow up a day of NASCAR with wine-tasting and Scrabble.

[Guest]

All three times I've went, I haven't seen any of these redneck activities. It's probably because of the venue that I've been to.

 

Each time I went, I didn't pay. How fun.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Right, and at the other racetracks, fans follow up a day of NASCAR with wine-tasting and Scrabble.

 

I bet they have wine tasting at the track in wine country up in Sonoma Valley California. Its a Road Course too, so theres right hand turns! SHOCK!

 

Im going to the June race in Dover, and Im sitting in the air conditioned grandstand.

 

There are Redneck fans at any track just because there are rednecks with nothing better to do than to travel all over the country in their gas guzzling RVs following the races...

[Art Sandusky 0]

Talladega and Darlington are Hammerstein and Viking Hall. Just think of it like that and it won't annoy you so much. NASCAR's pretty much devolved into professional wrestling anyway.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Talladega and Darlington are Hammerstein and Viking Hall. Just think of it like that and it won't annoy you so much. NASCAR's pretty much devolved into professional wrestling anyway.

 

Tony Stewart would have you believe that..but its not that bad. I would assume that everyone would love it to be the ruleless lawless days of old when it was racin but it cant be like that anymore.

[Art Sandusky 0]

It's all a marketing charade. You're a blind fan, otherwise you wouldn't put any money into it. The more you support it, the quicker the quality will decline. My issues aren't with guys being bloodthirsty and track "personalities," I mean the actual racing element, you know, the sport of it. Fuck it, I'm hijacking this bitch to spit some venom that fans should be pissed off about and detractors will delight to hear, because NASCAR is going to pop and disappear for three big reasons and they all piss me off equally.

 

Where's the true-to-life sheetmetal? Pretty much every other racing circuit in the world outside of P1 and P2 and of course Formula 1 has cars that are based on the cars they were supposed to be in the first place. It's not a matter of not being able to make them safe enough. If Chevrolet can produce a world-beating Corvette racing program that is capable of doing 200+ down the Mulsanne and carve Laguna Seca with ease, they can certainly make a real Impala NASCAR-ready, which doesn't require as much engineering. Oh yeah, Cadillac does the same thing, slaying BMWs and Mercs instead of Ferraris and Astons as the Corvette does. This blandmobile bullshit that's going full-time next year is inexcusable. Those other cars I mentioned inspire spirit, no matter how minimal, and lead to greater pedigree in terms of being an automotive product for the mass market. I root for Fords, but damned if they look like any fuckin' Ford I've ever seen. Remember what the SC in the acronym stands for. You can trace the rise of Japanese automakers to this crap as well. There was a time when the CEOs of the Detroit automakers paid top dollar to anyone with the brains and ability to help them beat their crosstown rivals. In 2007, Alan Mullaly (Ford) or Rick Wagoner (GM) probably couldn't tell you right now who's winning the points race so far. Having the real look of the cars (only 500 of the engines need even be produced from the factory according to NASCAR rules when such a thing mattered) doing the racing means something to the prospective car buyer, what with how it's completely saturating every possible market and always brainstorming to create new ones. Speaking of which...

 

Why are there suddenly so many goddamn races? Seemingly lost in this shitstorm of branding synergies splattered across uniform cars which vaguely inhabit the backgrounds of reality series is that the season has ballooned to 39 races. 39! If I could make an apt comparison, imagine if Major League Baseball created 10 or more new teams within the next 15-20 years. The France family (owners of NASCAR for those who don't know) has taken the "unstoppable parasitic virus" approach to building a fanbase. While it had a following for years that was huge, it was still a regional thing and is sorta doomed to be just that forever. Hockey, for the South. Strange that NASCAR's decline is also a smidge reminiscent of the collapse of the NHL. NASCAR has a Mexican offshoot now. Betcha didn't know that. As the cars look more soulless, the marketing machine keeps charging, finding new ways to squirm into your life. The beauty is that the drivers are walking advertisments as well. More respectable factory-backed racing circuits generally wear proper factory-themed attire with subtle badges if other companies are sponsoring a team. Oh no no no, not here on these bloated ovals. A television advertisment that uses a driver in track gear isn't just for the people who made the spot in the first place, it's for at least fifteen other interests in sight alone. So they were going to make the season longer, crank up the marketing presence by demanding more money for television rights to fund this big honkin' plan, funds which you use to push out the automakers as much as possible and insert your own name instead of theirs. People will love it, the grandstands will fill up, people will want to see it on television, it'll spawn movies and related entertainment programs, and its ceremonies will rival those of the Super Bowl! All the while, people will fall over themselves to create the greatest super speedways ever beholden by mortal eyes because we're going to be the biggest event in the history of mankind! Problem is, the France trust never accounted for the one weakness in the scheme, a big fat con which is still full steam ahead as we speak. It doesn't work. America can't take any more NASCAR, and the saturation point passed very early on in all this, back in the late 90s. Ratings are on the decline, and attendance is following suit. I guess it isn't such a good idea to have a race twice in one year at a track that won't support it after all. Imagine that. If you accepted all of the corporate input you receive each day, you'd think NASCAR was some serious shit that you desperately needed to get into, whether you lived in southern Georgia (woof) or southern California (also, woof). Now then, actually speak with people in these places and see what people think about this new Great American Sport that we had under our noses all this time but apparently didn't notice before. It will inevitably contract and concede the position of major sport to other actual major sports.

 

A big kick in the ass also looms in the form of the current financial crises of American automakers. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all flirting with bankruptcy right now to different degrees. Chrysler is being pushed out the door with a for sale sign by their uberlords at Mercedes, Ford is stagnant and faltering, and GM is choking itself to death with their product strategy. Something huge happened recently that not many noticed when GM lost its position as the #1 automaker in the world to Toyota. All of the American companies are also facing talks with the UAW soon, as worker benefits (past and present) and contracts which don't allow plants to close are delivering the second kick to the groins of our homeboys, the first coming every month with the release of sales figures. Waaaaay more money's leaving the piggy bank than's going in at all three and one is reportedly preparing to withdraw from NASCAR competition in order to save an extra $50 million a year and appease the shareholders further, since Wall Street somehow buys the notion that you can cut your way to profitability instead of making better cars.

 

It's all going down in flames soon, guys.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

A) The season is only 36 Races (26 Pre-Chase races and 10 Chase for the Cup Races) and 1 All Star Race that doesnt count. The season is a bit long, but it was like 32 races a couple years ago so its not much longer than it was. I dont think they'll be adding any more races without taking races away from tracks with 2 races. Interestingly enough I worry Dover will be on the chopping block for one of their 2 races despite being a driver favorite track.

 

B) Its pretty much known that the cars represented in NASCAR (Dodge Charger/Avenger, Chevy Monte Carlo/Impala SS, Ford Fusion and Toyota Camry) have nothing in common with the street cars. The whole new COT thing is rediculous too, with adding the wing on the back and the splinter on the front and making the car look like a box on wheels (which is what the cars looked like when I first started watching back in 94). But its all apart of driver safety so I suppose you have to accept it as a fan since no one wants drivers to be killed in races.

 

C) I dont get why anyone has a problem with the advertising. Advertising is a fact of life, get over it. For the record, its been proven that fans of a particular driver are brand loyal to their driver's sponsor(s). But I follow Jeff Gordon and Ive never bought one Dupont Automotive Finishes product in my life and I'll drink Coke or Pepsi depending on which is cheaper, so I dont know how well that stands up.

 

D) "America can't take any more NASCAR, and the saturation point passed very early on in all this, back in the late 90s. Ratings are on the decline, and attendance is following suit." Tell me why they are clammoring to build more tracks because fans in certain areas of the country have to travel far to see the races. I know theres talk of a track up in the Northwest which is actually a racing hotbed, and also talk about a track in the NYC area. TV ratings are down, but the Race in Texas a couple of weeks ago won the sunday ratings and NASCAR still brings in higher ratings for TV than any sport other than Football, and Im sure they beat out the NBA playoff ratings on Sunday. A lot of people are turned off by Fox's presentation which might factor into that, and in July the coverage spins over to TNT and then to ABC. And maybe attendence is declining, but they can still sell 150,000+ seats for a race so..I doubt thats a big deal, its not like the stands are empty for races on Sunday, which is what led to tracks losing races (Rockingham, North Wilkesboro). Hardcore fans hate the fact that the newer homoginized tracks like Texas leeched races off the old school tracks like Rockingham, but that was inevitable as long as the owners of the old school tracks allowed them to be run into the ground and not kept modern.

 

E) NASCAR has a Mexican off-shoot? WOW..its not like the NFL has one in Europe, MLB has deals with Japan. They've run Busch Series races in Mexico for the last couple of years and the crowds down there are huge compared to what the Busch Series sees on Saturdays here in the States.

 

F) Kotz assumes that everyone that cares about Auto racing gives a shit about the car companies behind it. Im sure most of the diehards do, but Ive been watching for 14 years and I couldnt care less about the car companies behind the scenes or the fact that American automakers are floundering around like a fish out of water. They have no one to blame but themselves for allowing Toyota and other foreign car makers to come in and, god forbid, make cheaper cars with better features that American car buyers actually want...OMG thats just terrible business practice..whatever. Toyota being allowed into NASCAR was a huge problem for the old school fans, but it has been proven so far that they can put all the money in the world into NASCAR but they cant just come in and dominate nascar by throwing tons of money at development programs. Plus it doesnt help that all the drivers they hired suck ass.

 

G) Kotz doesn't even mention the #1 problem that most fans actually do have with NASCAR these days..the fact that you have owners of huge multi car teams that seem to dominate every sunday over the smaller single car teams. Roush/Fenway (5 Cars), Hendrick Motorsports (4 cars), Richard Childress Racing (3 cars), Joe Gibbs Racing (3 cars), DEI (3 cars), Chip Ganassi Racing (3 cars), Ginn Racing (3 cars), Ray Evernham/Dodge Racing (3 cars), Penske Racing (2 cars) Petty Enterprise (2 cars) and Robert Yates Racing (2 cars). From a financial standpoint, its almost impossible for a single car team to compete in NASCAR right now unless they cut deals with other teams, especially given the process of qualifying cars is based on owner points..its pretty hard for a single car team to even qualify a car for a race on Sunday. Theres been talks of trimming the number of cars one team can run and that will help some. The COT is supposed to cut costs for building cars as well, but in the long run only the large teams can afford to build enough of them to run them and risk wrecking them. Which is why Hendrick Motorsports has dominated the COT races thusfar.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Well, if Earnhardt didn't want Gordon to pass him, maybe he shouldn't have gone out & gotten himself killed.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Spoon and Marvin should receive some kind of temporary ban for wasting that much time typing about motherfucking NASCAR. Calling that shit a "sport" is about as big of a reach as you can get.

[AboveAverage484 0]

First of all, I don't consider NASCAR a sport, it's just racing.

 

I've been watching the sport since I was a kid, and NASCAR's rules are really my biggest problem. I hate the "lucky dog," green-white checkers, and the new caution rules. Basically, they want to make the sport both more exciting and safer at the same time, but as soon as they eliminate racing back to the caution, they institute a maniacal mad-dash to the finish which is going to end up seriously injuring someone before all is said and done.

 

I have to agree with Stewart as well with these random debris cautions. They made a point to show the debris last week and really rub it in, but it wasn't the cautions which showed the debris that Stewart was pissed about, it was the ones that didn't.

 

As for new tracks and sponsorship, that comes with growth, so as long as they build some decent new tracks, which they've been pretty hit or miss about, I'm happy. Relatedly, somebody's going to make a fortune by building a new Bristol or new Richmond, because both of those tracks are gold mines with huge capacities for their sizes and exciting races.

 

Additionally, they've banned fourteen "fans" from Talladega for life, so take that for what it's worth.

[2GOLD 0]

My problem with NASCAR is the same problem I have with the NBA: The ticket prices to the events are outrageously high. I'm looking at between 100 and 50 dollars for a seat to a race at Dover. Ticket prices for NASCAR went from a reasonable 50-60 dollars a person to sit outside and enjoy the race to more than double that in five years time. That's insanity and probably one of the biggest reason for the decline in ticket sales, lots of fans just cannot afford to go to a NASCAR event anytime soon. I wanted to take my fiancee this year for her first time but at 50 bucks a pop to sit in that boring ass air conditioned grandstand isn't working for her or me.

 

As for the bottles..right, only NASCAR fans have ever thrown stuff for stupid reasons. NFL fans have thrown bottles because a ref made a call they didn't like. The NY, NE and pretty much anywhere it snowed decided to throw ice balls because they were bored and felt like being dicks. The fans in Detroit started one of the stupidest incidents in NBA history throwing shit. MLB fans have ran out of the stands and attacked umpires because they didn't like what was going on.

 

You have stupid people at sporting events no matter where you live. It's not redneckery, it's drunken idiots being drunken idiots.

[AboveAverage484 0]

My problem with NASCAR is the same problem I have with the NBA: The ticket prices to the events are outrageously high. I'm looking at between 100 and 50 dollars for a seat to a race at Dover. Ticket prices for NASCAR went from a reasonable 50-60 dollars a person to sit outside and enjoy the race to more than double that in five years time. That's insanity and probably one of the biggest reason for the decline in ticket sales, lots of fans just cannot afford to go to a NASCAR event anytime soon. I wanted to take my fiancee this year for her first time but at 50 bucks a pop to sit in that boring ass air conditioned grandstand isn't working for her or me.

 

As for the bottles..right, only NASCAR fans have ever thrown stuff for stupid reasons. NFL fans have thrown bottles because a ref made a call they didn't like. The NY, NE and pretty much anywhere it snowed decided to throw ice balls because they were bored and felt like being dicks. The fans in Detroit started one of the stupidest incidents in NBA history throwing shit. MLB fans have ran out of the stands and attacked umpires because they didn't like what was going on.

 

You have stupid people at sporting events no matter where you live. It's not redneckery, it's drunken idiots being drunken idiots.

 

I agree entirely, that's why I was so amused by the announcers comments last week, like they were shocked that fans would resort to throwing garbage. It's in the south and at most of the races in that particular region a good portion of the fans are drunken hicks, so I wasn't surprised in the least.

 

Ticket prices are ridiculous, I agree. At least I get to see the All-Star race for free because of some complimentary tickets I scored.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

Spoon and Marvin should receive some kind of temporary ban for wasting that much time typing about motherfucking NASCAR. Calling that shit a "sport" is about as big of a reach as you can get.

No, Kotz wrote some good stuff regarding NASCAR and the American auto industry. Marvin, not so much. How can you say so many positive things about NASCAR? Yikes.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

My problem with NASCAR is the same problem I have with the NBA: The ticket prices to the events are outrageously high. I'm looking at between 100 and 50 dollars for a seat to a race at Dover. Ticket prices for NASCAR went from a reasonable 50-60 dollars a person to sit outside and enjoy the race to more than double that in five years time. That's insanity and probably one of the biggest reason for the decline in ticket sales, lots of fans just cannot afford to go to a NASCAR event anytime soon. I wanted to take my fiancee this year for her first time but at 50 bucks a pop to sit in that boring ass air conditioned grandstand isn't working for her or me.

 

As for the bottles..right, only NASCAR fans have ever thrown stuff for stupid reasons. NFL fans have thrown bottles because a ref made a call they didn't like. The NY, NE and pretty much anywhere it snowed decided to throw ice balls because they were bored and felt like being dicks. The fans in Detroit started one of the stupidest incidents in NBA history throwing shit. MLB fans have ran out of the stands and attacked umpires because they didn't like what was going on.

 

You have stupid people at sporting events no matter where you live. It's not redneckery, it's drunken idiots being drunken idiots.

Thats where Im sitting, although its not where I want to sit. Birthday present..bleh.

 

Is $50-100 that bad? Dover has 2 races a year. Isn't it more outrageous that Baseball teams can charge $50 a ticket for seats to 1 game out of 81? The people who go to the races can obviously afford it if they can afford their 500ft long RVs with satellite TV and have a bbq out in the lot for everyone too.

 

As far as the new rules, the NASCAR rules people are damned either way. Tony Stewart cries "OMG NASCAR IS LIKE WWF!" when they start calling cautions for "questionable" debris, and yet I remember hearing passing comments from former drivers like DW and the like about how they'd adamently claim to NASCAR officials that there was debris on the track to get a caution so they wouldnt go a lap down or so they wouldnt have to risk a green flag pit stop. The first time NASCAR doesn't call a caution for debris and theres a wreck and someone gets hurt..GEE..Im guessing whoever got hurt will be bitching about that too. NASCAR's stance on safety over entertainment might not be the most popular, but you can't blame them for it. If LT goes out for the Chargers and gets killed on the field, Im sure NFL would make sweeping changes to rules and equipment to avoid it happening again. Same for every other sport.

 

and.. its MOTORSPORTS..deal with it.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Spoon and Marvin should receive some kind of temporary ban for wasting that much time typing about motherfucking NASCAR. Calling that shit a "sport" is about as big of a reach as you can get.

No, Kotz wrote some good stuff regarding NASCAR and the American auto industry. Marvin, not so much. How can you say so many positive things about NASCAR? Yikes.

 

 

 

I happen to like NASCAR, Ive been watching it almost as long as I have been watching baseball and football.

 

this is sorta why I avoid talking about it at all on here, but I have before when its been brought up. Though it never fails to lead into "ITS NOT A SPORT" and redneck comments.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

Do sports usually develop out of elements of redneck culture like running moonshine?

 

I don't even get what's to like about it. It's never struck me as remotely captivating, and it tends to attract the same clientele that the Chevy Silverado commercials are geared toward, so naturally, I won't touch it.

[the pinjockey 0]

Was there a point to this thread being made other than to go hahaha NASCAR rednecks LOL?

 

Kotz did bring up a couple a couple of valid points. It is getting very much like the NHL, where the core fanbase are getting pushed to the side. While I am not one of those who really cares about Ford/Chevy, there is a contingent of fans who are. The IROCing of the series is going to piss them off. Win on Sunday Sell on Monday was a saying for a reason.

 

The overexpansion is also a problem. Putting cookie cutter mile and a half tracks all over the country in tepid markets takes away from the core fanbase again. The attempt to get a track in NYC when there is apparently ZERO interest there was just sad. Getting rid of the Rock and North Wilkesboro and the continued threat to Darlington and Martinsville is not very well received by a lot of the people. (to piggyback BR4L's point, the fact there isn't another Bristol is insane, you can get 150K in the place and charge anything you want and people will pay. Defeats the whole we need a mile and half to fit the fans arguement)

 

One thing keeping that crowd is the name Earnhardt. As long as Little E is running there will be a strong contingent of fans in the traditional markets.

 

Eventually there is going to be a time like the WWF, where the boom period dies out and you are left with the base crowd. If you eat away at that base it will be a killer. There is a chance it becomes one of the traditional big sports, but with the length of the races, the content (face it, it is hard to get into it if you don't like it ASAP), and no immediate vested interest (no "our" team, if I am in south Jersey that means I like the Philly teams, there is no equivalent in NASCAR) I don't really see that happening.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

Was there a point to this thread being made other than to go hahaha NASCAR rednecks LOL?

No. The point of this thread really was, in fact, to go "hahaha NASCAR rednecks LOL." Why is this objectionable?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

A couple of points.

 

1. Yeah, pushing out the core fanbase sucks. It's what happens though when corporate money gets involved. It's a good business decision for the sport, the problem being that the common fan gets screwed.

 

2. Absolutely you could put a track in NYC and sell. I live five miles from a Nascar track. Our entire county has 138,000, and they draw 150,000+ twice a year for auto racing.

[the pinjockey 0]

It would sell because like Pocono, it would be one of the only tracks in the northeast (along with Loudon). But I don't think it would really sell with NYC and that is why they won't be able to get the track there. They hold their post season ceremonies there and noone seems to give a damn. Every reporter who attends the post season stuff always mentions that they get almost no interest from the city itself. When they talk about NYC I believe it is more about getting that market as opposed to putting up a track and getting surrounding area fans to show up.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Marvin and Al are right about more than a couple of things, but the racing purist in me just wants to shoot someone. NASCAR is gradually becoming racertainment, which is fine if you're into that. A lot of people prefer the goofy WWE style of wrestling too. I simply don't see any more room for expansion or more profit less than five years from now. Personally, much like with WWE, I'll decry the style and presentation and continue to watch (but never fund) it. I'd much rather see an ALMS or Trans-Am series race, but NASCAR is so darned accessible now that it's really easy to get your racing fix from it.

[the pinjockey 0]

To make you feel better, who ya got this season: Alonso, Raikkonen, Massa, or Hamilton?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Poor Formula 1. I'm never awake when their live races are on, unless it makes one of the major networks on a weekend afternoon because it's in America. I couldn't tell you who I root for besides CART and the IRL getting back together.

 

One thing I will stay up until ungodly hours to watch: WRC. Oh yeah.

[the pinjockey 0]

The Indy incident set F1 back years in the states, have they been back on a major network since?

 

And Tony George and Kevin Kalkovenieninien should both be shot.