One And Only Raw Thread For 6-17-02

[Guest franchise632]

And anyone who thinks that those people in Oakland were letdown should have that on tape cause a crowd like that hasnt popped like that in a LOOOONNNGGG time.

[Guest]

Man, that Oakland crowd was jacked for most of the show. I haven't see the WWE with that kind of audience response in weeks.

 

Fuck Austin, we--for the time being--have the Rock!

 

ROCKY! ROCKY! ROCKY!

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

I was in that crowd (even made it on TV for a few seconds. Though I was visible through most of the promo segments, I wasn't really distinguisible). How were we?

 

I taped the show, but some of the crowd reaction seems to have gotten lost in the recording. Being there and then watching it later just wasn't the same. Our response seemed timid, at least compared to actually being there. I don't think TV did the pops we gave any justice. It was insane there. The only spots we didn't pop maniacally were the Eddie-Flair figure 4 spot and...I think that's it. Other than that it was pretty damn crazy. Booker is super over. Just felt like saying. Don't remember any "She's a fatass" chants, but I did hear some "slut" rumblings in our section during the trish/molly match.

 

Without a doubt, pop of the night went to the Rock. Second only to Austin's music hitting. There was alot of pro-Austin sentiment throughout the show. 'Whooing' to past the time away was a treat as well.

 

Having never been to RAW before, I'd have to say I had a great time.

[Guest chirs3]

You were part of a damn good crowd, because the "X-Pac sucks!" chant was the loudest I've ever heard. RVD also got huge pops.

[Guest]

I think I'll go back and watch the last segment again, just to watch roughly 10,000 people simultaneously jump up and explode with cheering. Quite the sight.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Damn EvenflowDDT. He's at Raw now, about to be present for either the biggest thing of the year or the WWE's near-last resort to fix things.

 

This was my first live WWE event, and possibly the most "important" RAW of the year, in the sense that this was the first RAW where we all knew Austin wouldn't be coming back.  It was really interesting because during the dark matches and HeAT tapings, whenever they mentioned Austin all I heard were boo's (at least from my section), yet when RAW came on (and all the marks arrived I guess), the crowd erupted at every mention of his name and every tease.

 

The Guerrero tease was F'N WICKED BRILLIANT and easily earned the biggest heel heat of the night and one of the biggest I've ever heard.  Personally, I couldn't stop laughing.  Also, I knew that Austin wasn't going to make it at the end, and I was pleasantly surprised when The Rock came out (I thought Austin would no-show and the Booker/Brock match would finish the show off).  Say what you will about being let down or whatever, but EVERYONE in the crowd was on their feet cheering, literally.  Hell, I don't even like The Rock that much, but I had to admire what he had to say and join in the "Rocky" chants simply because it was all from the heart, and The Rock's appearance was the polar opposite of Austin's disappearance last week.  I have no idea what he's going to do at King of the Ring, but it's actually shaping up to be a pretty good show that I'm actually going to miss.  I know a lot of people are going to be disappointed though when he goes back to making his movie though, unless he uses that to set up a heel turn.  I personally don't think he'll do that based on the reaction he got tonight, and on what he said, a leaving/heel turn would be an unrealistic 180.

 

Damn, this is a long post.  My apologies, but it's my last for two weeks, so I have to make sure nobody forgets me.  In the more trivial department, I started the "Harvard Sucks!" chant during Chris Harvard's match.  No, I'm not kidding you either... I was yelling obnoxious smarky things all night (more on this later), and this was the one thing that caught on.  I started yelling "Harvard SUCKS!" when Spike was knocked out of the ring, and managed to get those few extra decibels when they got back in the ring until the lower levels FINALLY (therockhascomebacktooakland!!!! ) heard me and joined in as well.  Sure, it died pretty quickly (it's amazing how fast a chant seems to die when you're actually there, yet when they're replayed on TV they seem to last half the match).  Anyway, I was proud!

 

As for the Bookerman, I really didn't understand it.  Brock comes out, crowd is dead.  nWo comes out, crowd is dead.  Booker comes out, crowd pops.  Booker hits scissors kick in the match, the crowd has a bigger pop.  Spinaroonie to a HUGE pop, post-match beat-down, crowd is dead.  HBK does... what did he do anyway? He literally disappeared for the whole match... the only nWo guys I saw at ring-side were X-Pac and the Big Show.  Anyway, HBK and Nash re-appear to taunt during and after the beat-down, NO reaction (crowd was deader than most door-nails... HBK looked like a fool, what's the point of him being around again?).  So, how is it out of all the guys who DIDN'T get a reaction, the one guy who DID is the one who did the job? Personally, given the Brock/Heyman/nWo backstage segment (which was VERY well done and VERY cool), I thought they would do a DQ finish so that Booker could still win and have Brock retain his (lack of) heat (maybe we just don't like wrestlers that resemble Aryan Super-Soldiers in the Bay Area? ).  Anyway, I was pissed Booker won't be KotR, and now that the title-shot stip is official, it's fairly obvious RVD is going to take it all home.

 

UNDERTAKER & RAVEN ON THE SAME DAMN PAGE! YEAH!!! I hope this is permanent, seriously.  Apparently it didn't go over too well with the more smarky smarks of this board, but in my humble, biased opinion, only good can come of this.  Nice touch with the handcuffs.  The funniest thing about it though, is as hard as Undertaker tries to be a heel, he still got probably the third biggest pop of the night.  Also, his match with Matt wasn't that bad either.

 

As a few final notes/questions, whenever Hogan came up on the Titantron in an ad or KotR promo, all I could hear were boos from my section and dead silence from the others.  This can only be a good thing .  Also, has Planet Stasiak had new music/Titantron on HeAT lately? If not, he premiered a new Titantron and music tonight.  The music has a machine-noise intro that is strangely fitting.  Also, to Big McLargeHuge and anyone else who was there, who did Prototype (yeah! I got to see Prototype! ) job to in the dark match? I was sure I'd be let down by Prototype, but the match was pretty good, albeit with more arm-drags than a Mexican Midget Match... as fun as it was to start up a "Harvard Sucks!" chant, I'd venture to say Prototype is more deserving of a spot on real TV than Chris Harvard (even though Harvard and Regal make a great arrogant/spoiled/upper-class team).

 

Now then, now that I'm done giving my thoughts on the show, I'll talk about how my actual experience went.  First, I took BART with two of my friends and got there early, so where else did we go but the souvenir stand? After waiting in the mass of people (what the hell is a line? organization? c'mon, this is Oakland people! ) to get to the front, I politely inquired if they still made Raven shirts, and after getting a confused look from the guy, I asked if they had any Hurricane shirts, after which he told me they only sold shirts up there (referring to a display of a Rock, Austin, Hardyz, HHH, 'Taker, and Hogan shirts and merchandise).  I ended up buying the Undertaker "Big Evil / Red Devil" shirt (I really like the logo on the front) for... $28?! That's even more than the over-priced shirts at Shopzone

 

I had a lot of fun at the show, but some of that came at the expense of the others around me.  During the Raven/Hardy match, I yelled at the top of my lungs "wh00! Raven!", "[clap-clap-clap-clap-clap] Let's Go RAVEN!" (I did this one for the longest, and got ONE other person in my section to yell "Raven RULES!", so I was happy), "Raven is the BEST!", "Get 'im Raven!", and "Jeff sucks!", amongst many other Raven mark things, which pissed off EVERYONE around me.  After the Raven/Undertaker beat-down of the Hardys, I yelled "Hardyz SUCK!", and a teenage girl down my row and a couple kids sitting behind me yelled back, "No, YOU SUCK!".  Good times, good times... I also marked like a mad-man for Crash Holly, but nobody seemed to care about that one.  Actually, that was one of the few things the crowd wasn't really into.  Alas, I wanted to yell "Shut up Lawler!", but since there's no live commentary at the tapings, I had to be content with just boo'ing his entrance.  Without commentary, matches seem to be a lot shorter, and dare I say more interesting.  Also, getting to hear the full entrance themes for once was pretty neat as well.

 

Anyway, it's almost 1AM, I have to get up at 3AM to leave the house at 4AM to get to the airport for a 6AM flight, so... I guess this is farewell, for now.  I'm sure a lot of you are saying "what the hell is two weeks? it's not like that's a long time... what a loser!", but I visit this board every day and post quite often, and it'll be weird not doing so for a while.  That being said, hope nothing important happens while I'm gone, and I'll miss the more high-profile posters (including, but certainly not limited to: Zack Malibu, Kotzenjunge, CWM, SomeGuy, Dames, goodhelmet, Kinetic, incandenza, BPP, the Angle's Sault and Plex, alfdogg, Sandman, Tony149, C.H.U.D. and dreamer420) and writing columns at the site for ya (even though in fact I'll only really be missing four columns, maybe five).  Pay-ce!

 

PS: BMLH, where were your seats? I was in section 204... upper deck, four rows from the tip-top of the nose-bleed section, but since I was at a diagonal angle from the ring I could actually see most of the action pretty well.  The Titantron was obscured by the stage-lights, but my friend brought binoculars and when looking through those it was just like Fire Pro D, only live!

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I'm not gald to have the Rock back because I don't want to see him bitch out all of the heels, be a face that acts like a heel, put people in his version of the sharpshooter, do the belly to belly suplex, punches, DDT, kip-up or any of the other stuff that made me start to dislike him so much. Furthermore, it's nice that everybody is happy to see him again, but how long will it be before they do another Rocky comeback? The Rock's not there to stay! He has two movies to shoot and the Hollywood people would rather have the Rock not wrestle anymore. I was disappointed by the Rock's return because I had a feeling that he would be the trump card pulled by the WWF and I know it's only a matter of time before they write him out of the script so that he can escape to Hollywood again. Speaking of which, what the hell does the Rock have to be mad about and who is he to tell people to get the F out if they don't want to be there? He's allowed to leave for months on end to shoot movies. Who else has that luxury? Furthermore, he didn't exactly have a hard road to the top. Don't get me wrong, I like Dwayne Johnson sometimes and I am proud of what he's done, but I for some reason, I don't like him when he's in a wrestling ring. I wonder if he finds himself in a situation similar to Austin's somewhere down the line. He said that he plans on being around until he's 80, which isn't hard to believe considering the fact that they have Flair, Hogan and McMahon trying to be main eventers. If he is in fact in the ring when he's 80 years old, I wonder if he'll be putting people over. He didn't put Booker T over last summer, and look at Booker T now. He's one of the most over guys on the roster, but he's still in the midcard. Think about what that whole situation did to wrestling that summer. Now from what I hear, the Rock was putting Brock Lesnar in Rock Bottom's and stuff after RAW went off the air. I wonder if the WWF continues trying to push Lesnar and pushes him over RVD (another guy who has been incredibly over) so that he can continue his path down the road of an overpushed rookie. I also wonder if the Rock is going to have a program with Lesnar. Flair tried to put Lesnar over already on RAW, and apparently, the Rock could be entering a program with him. It seems like there were things done to spite Austin, I wonder if the Rock putting Lesnar over will be one of those things as well. Lesnar is over and has no charisma, but they insist that he will be a star. I doubt seriously that the Rock will put over this guy and then go back to Hollywood.

[Guest]

First of all... I loved the show. I haven't seen a show that was that good in a while. No real slow spots, IMO. Very little was forced. Except Vince and Jackie (yuck.)

 

Only problem I had was the whole Austin-tease. I don't know if they were trying to work the 'Net people or what, but I was going to be pissed if Austin showed up. If this whole thing had been made up it just would have left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Glad to see the Rock back. I thought he was friends with Steve Austin, but the things he said didn't make him sound like a friend... but I do know that the Rock has lots of respect for the business, and I'm glad he's stepped up so that the 95% of the audience that bought RAW tickets to see Stone Cold will get to go home happy.

 

I'm sad Booker T won't become KOTR, but hopefully he will come out looking strong from his feud with the nWo. Although he'll get points for carrying the nwoldsters to decent matches, I don't see him winning this feud, unless maybe he gets help from someone big (ie: The Rock). The nWo already has Zero credibility, and making them lose a feud to Booker T would probably kill any chance they ever had as being a threat. And if you're not a threat then you're just enhancement talent. Maybe Spike Dudley can become their new leader.

[Guest The Fett]

Rock's promo was truly great last night. This man represents the exact type of leader that the WWE needs in the backstage. Not Austin, not Triple H, not Undertaker, Rocky.

 

Rock will do ANYTHING for Vince and not complain. If he were in the middle of shooting a movie and Vince called him up asking him to return to the WWE to help ratings, Rock would drop his phone and get on the next plane to wherever the WWE is at.

 

It would have been cool if the WWE were to play that Spiderman song "Hero" in the background as Rock came out.

[Guest notJames]

Not the biggest Rock fan in the world (especially from a workrate standpoint), but damn, did he have the crowd out of their seats. I was so relieved when he came out, because images of that dickhead Goldberg and/or Bischoff were burrowing their way through my noggin, and I didn't have any painkillers on hand to deal with it.

 

I can definitely see why they brought him back... damage control for the Austin Situation, naturally. He's just as over, and can, for at least one night, make them forget about Austin and move forward. How long Rock will be here is another story, but for now, it's cool.

 

Plus, he'll be presenting the KOTR trophy/crown/whatever on Sunday. So look for Lesnar to win, only to get a drubbin' from the Great One (if the post-RAW antics are any indication -- Lesnar and Heyman confronted Rock after the cameras were turned off; Lesnar got the Rock Bottom, Heyman the People's Elbow). They might be counting on Rock to give the rub to Lesnar, and then set him up for his title shot against (most likely, ugh) HHH at Summerslam. Hey, not everything can be golden.

 

Speaking of which, can someone shoot HBK in the head and end all our collective misery? His commentary (and Nash's lame JR routine) were neither funny nor productive. They took away from a decent match, took all the heat on themselves, and then acted like buffoons during the beatdown, especially the Holy Bible-Thumping Krackhead. Nice way to sell the group as heels by 'tweening it up for the 3 or 4 smarks who still give a shit about you, Shawn. Drop dead.

 

So are we getting Booker/Goldust vs. Xpac/Big Slow at KOTR? Feh. Expect more lame hijinx and possibly a dick joke or two from the Men in Black and White. Hooray. Glad I don't have to pay for this shit.

 

RIP Austin 3:16. Thank you for bringing me back to wrestling. It was a fun ride.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I liked Raw a lot last night.  It had some energy and most of the stuff they did made sense.  Yeah I was hoping Booker would win over Brock, but I knew better.  That said, I think the total non reaction to Lesnar winning should send a message to the WWE that fans aren't real thrilled with the guy.  I'd hope they would realize now that him winning KOTR is a big mistake since he isn't remotely over enough to main event Summerslam.  Can anyone imagine what a nightmare a HHH/Brock title match would be?

 

This thing with the Rock presenting the trophy to the winner interests me.  Almost makes me think that will be the main event of the show and not the wretched title match.  I think it would be really cool if Rock intervened and aided RVD against Brock when Heyman interferes.  Rock could present the trophy to RVD, which would put him over huge.  And it would also lead to a possible Brock/Rock feud, which I think could get Brock over better than if they foolishly put the title on him.

[Guest]

I just want to say that cabbageboy's idea is a great one. If Rock saved RVD on Sunday, RVD would get mega rub because he's down with the Rock. Brock could hold on to his (alleged) monster image. And Rock could do the Austin job to the Next Big Penis, because apparently Vince has incriminating photos of him or something. Or maybe Rock is just whipped.

 

Either way, the point is it's a good idea.

 

PS: plus, it would save us from the dreaded HHH/Brock match at SS

 

"Vince, I really think-uh I should beat Brock. We need to keep the title on one guy for a while, and besides I should be the one to end Brock's streak, cuz god knows I need some credability these days-uh." *spits water*

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

PS: BMLH, where were your seats? I was in section 204... upper deck, four rows from the tip-top of the nose-bleed section, but since I was at a diagonal angle from the ring I could actually see most of the action pretty well.  The Titantron was obscured by the stage-lights, but my friend brought binoculars and when looking through those it was just like Fire Pro D, only live!

I also took BART from Hayward and got there about 45 minutes before Heat. I was in section 101 lower deck (which would be just right around where the hard camera gets cut off during matches). I had to seat right behind some retards. That's a not slur or anything. They WERE retards. It wasn't bad, but one of them kept wanting to high five me. I obliged at times but she tried again when Flair was in the Figure 4...I had to keep her hanging. I was close and had a good 5 seconds of on screen time during Vince's promo when they cut away to the crowd. I keep rewinding the tape to see myself. I forgot my "This sign has X-Pac heat" and "This sign is a SWERVE~!" signs. Also forgot to make a bright yellow "Hogan fears Big McLargeHuge". Next time I'll bring them.

 

Prototype? I'm assuming this was the Heat/dark match? I couldn't hear Lillian's (who also got some great heat from the pervs in the crowd) announcing because the crowd wouldn't shut up. I also couldn't hear anything involving backstage antics, especially with the sound guy going everywhere with the volume.

 

Speaking of chants, our section started the "Regal sucks" chant that will be seen on Heat. Heh. I also booed the Hardyz and got some strange/hateful looks to which I replied "C'mon, I'm not the only who hates the fruitcake!". And there was this HBK super fanatic sitting a row and couple of seats away that absolutely grated on my nerves. They tried to start an "HBK" chant, with us chanting "sucks" at the end of it. Unimaginitive, yes, but it got the point across.

And indeed. Hogan got a less than flattering reaction. Our section was mostly quiet, with the exception of myself and some spread out boos. There were quite a few of smark-types at the event. Surprisingly, they were pro-Austin. Also got some "Rocky" chants during a break...but that was mostly because there was this guy near our section who was a Rock look-a-like, and posed briefly with a toy belt. Great moment.

 

There ya go.

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

Speaking of which, can someone shoot HBK in the head and end all our collective misery? His commentary (and Nash's lame JR routine) were neither funny nor productive. They took away from a decent match, took all the heat on themselves, and then acted like buffoons during the beatdown, especially the Holy Bible-Thumping Krackhead. Nice way to sell the group as heels by 'tweening it up for the 3 or 4 smarks who still give a shit about you, Shawn. Drop dead.

 

Indeed. His commentary filled with "I'm too cool to even be sitting here so I'll make references that no one'll get to make myself feel important and relevant again" bullshit was just aggravating. "Gimmick Infringement"...I wanted to kill him when he said that. Fuck you Shawn.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I must have been close to Big McLargeHuge, as the camera they use for the wide shots was down the line of chairs quite a ways at about a 90 degree angle. So we NEVER showed up on TV.

 

This didn't stop the guy in front of me from holding his "The Next Big Thing" sign over his head at ever oppertunity, though.

[Guest HartFan86]

{blank{

[Guest notJames]

..."Gimmick Infringement"...I wanted to kill him when he said that. Fuck you Shawn...

Seriously. I guess he'll have to pay damages to Stan Lane, Tom Zenk, Ray Rougeau, and all the other countless wrestlers who used the superkick before him. What a fuckin' tool.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Well, this was by far the best RAW of the year, or at least in my opinion it is.

 

RVD Vs. X-Pac rocked. I thought that it was a great match, and I could care less how X-pac lost, all that matters is that he lost.

 

So, RVD is going to win the KotR, then the Rock is going to present him the trophy and a Rock Bottom. Then we get RVD Vs. The Undertaker (who will retain) so that RVD can win the top strap. Then we get a RVD Vs. Rock main at SS. I can live with that. Of course, it won't happen like that, but I can fantasize.

 

Booker T is gold. He can do no wrong. Even when he loses, I mark out.

 

When the glass shattered, I fell out. Great moment. I love when wrestling does shit like that.

 

I enjoy wrestling a lot more when I don't read the net. I watched this RAW after not being on a computer for four days, and I thought that it was one of the best RAWs that I have ever seen. Coincidence? Who knows.

[Guest El Satanico]

Rock's "big speech" was pure bullshit.

 

So you love this business...then where you been for 2 months Rocky.

[Guest Cactus Clothesline]

How can you dog the Rock out for doing his Hollywood thing?  I haven't liked him since the face turn and I will never watch the Scorpion King but even being away he's been one of things going for wrestling.   He's the best since Foley at putting wrestling in a good light in the mainstream.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

The Rock was gone this time last year to shoot the Scorpion King, he refilmed the Scorpion King, now he's doing two more movies. Even though I wasn't one of them, I can appreciate the fact that there were people that enjoyed the Rock's comeback. That alone isn't so bad, but when he started preaching his sermon and making off handed comments about Austin, I was sick of his comeback already. It seems like the Rock lost most of the stuff that got him over and kept some of the wrong stuff for all of the wrong reasons. People liked the Rock's catchphrases because they were funny, but since Monday it seems like I'm the only one who doesn't appreciate four year old catchphrases.

[Guest Slingshot Suplex]

The only three negatives I pulled from RAW were that Shawn Michaels has become an unfunny,preening twit and that the NWO hand gesture thing is still as effeminite as it was 5 years ago....narrowly passing Adrian Street on the list.And Vince oogling another chick..not even an attractive one really.

 

The rest of RAW I enjoyed.(except for Big Useless Nash's commentary.That makes 4)