TSM Fantasy Baseball 2008

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I think I joked back during the draft that I was Mike Cameron away from having the entire Brewers OF with Hart and Braun. I just picked up Branyan who is playing 3B for them but he's OF eligible, so I guess on a technicality I finally accomplished having 3 Brewers in the OF.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Vitamin X]

Just when I thought I was safe from trading for a while..

 

Turns out I might need some help in the infield, pronto. Particularly at 2B and 3B, where all three of my guys are either inactive or on the DL at those spots. Anyone on my roster is fair game, make me an offer and I can make you one back if it doesn't work.

 

I've been accumulating a fairly good slew of young pitchers as well, so if you need help there, I have it as well.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Somehow still in 4th place despite not meeting the IP requirement last week... wow.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Just when I thought I was safe from trading for a while..

 

Turns out I might need some help in the infield, pronto. Particularly at 2B and 3B, where all three of my guys are either inactive or on the DL at those spots. Anyone on my roster is fair game, make me an offer and I can make you one back if it doesn't work.

 

I've been accumulating a fairly good slew of young pitchers as well, so if you need help there, I have it as well.

 

 

I just sent you a trade proposal..

 

Edit..

 

In having 3 good 3B with one that Im not parting with (Braun) Im willing to deal Feliz or Beltre. That last offer I made was ok but I thought about it some and it just didnt make sense in the long term so I canceled it..

 

 

[Guest Vitamin X]

Are we thinking keepers already?

 

I was just thinking how great a core offense of McCann, Gonzalez and Braun would be with Vazquez, Bedard and Nathan pitching. Basically 5 of my 6 keepers from last year - Corey Hart and + Adrian Gonzalez.

Y'know, I just started thinking about keepers, and I'm only decided on about 4-5 of them so far.

 

Josh Hamilton is a no-brainer, and maybe so is Jon Lester. I think Carpenter will be there for me as well, regardless of how he does, and I'll keep Zimmerman and Gomez around for sure. Part of me is really kicking myself for that Pujols and Manny trade I made earlier this year with Cheech (especially once you take a look at the league leaders in HR), and I feel I still could've gotten Hamilton later on since I only gave up Derrick Lee and Chad Billingley for him-Pujols would've been a better trading chip, probably. Either way though, I don't think I would've keepered Manny after this season anyways, so that point is a bit moot; I'm just interested in seeing how my young studs perform this year like Barmes, Winn, Ramirez, and Barajas, and then concentrate on getting 1. A 2B worth a shit next year, 2. Good starting pitching. in next year's draft.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'm thinking some changes for keepers should be considered. Like keeping only three or four from last years list.

[Precious Roy 0]

Hypothetical question, if you pick up a player from free agency who was initially drafted by another team and then dropped, if you make that player a keeper does he cost you a round 20 (or equivalent) pick, or do you inherit his drafted position. It seems like the draft value should be wiped clean once a player is dropped and clears waivers, but I could see how it might go either way

[Krankor 0]

If a player is dropped and picked up by another team, he still retains his original draft value because it is essentially like taking on that player’s contract through the remainder of the season. I’m not sure if I had that in the league rules or not, if not it was always assumed to be the standard. If it wasn’t, I’ll include it in the giant keeper section that will get added at the end of the month.

 

Things would get quite ridiculous if they didn't keep that value. I can tell you for certain a lot of teams would try and clear players through waivers just to get rid of the original draft value when a guy is slumping. Hell, I would have done it with a ton of my slumping pitchers already. I know I could have snuck Ian Snell and Michael Cuddyer through waivers untouched early on.

 

I'm thinking some changes for keepers should be considered. Like keeping only three or four from last years list.

 

Are you proposing only keeping 3 to 4 keepers total or keeping only 3 to 4 keepers that you kept last year and then keeping 3 to 2 brand new keepers?

 

By the way, everyone needs to check back on Thursday afternoon because I want to get the ball rolling with what we want to do on keeper year duration and get all that stuff hammered out by the end of June. I’ll draft up a couple of possible options from the preliminary discussions we discussed early on in the year. That way teams out of contention can start taking appropriate actions to get ready for next season.

 

[Guest Vitamin X]

Are you proposing only keeping 3 to 4 keepers total or keeping only 3 to 4 keepers that you kept last year and then keeping 3 to 2 brand new keepers?

I like the second option, but that's only because I'm an expansion team and that shouldn't apply to us- plus it helps the guys at the bottom of the league out a little more, since I've noticed a couple people have been at or near the top for a while now, and it's more likely because of the keepers. Doing this would make things a bit more competitive.

[the pinjockey 0]

I am not a fan of that idea at all. It just seems to punish teams that have a full group of legit keepers and didn't have to hold their nose to pick a 5th/6th name to keep. Whatever rule is used (either an increasing cost or a firm 3 year rule) should help free up some newer names each season in the draft.

 

I do think something that might need to be addressed is the waiver priority. The way it is now the best teams have the first shot at the premium prospects. So where the expansion teams need help the most, they are never going to get it (cheap, FA stud prospects). Whether we went to a randomized order or just keeping the draft order (worst teams get first waiver priority), I think we need to change something up on it.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I'm not sure there's anything we could directly do about that, that's a Yahoo! Fantasy thing as far as I know, although maybe I'm wrong, I haven't ran a Yahoo! Fantasy League in forever (maybe ever), so I can't say for sure, but it does seem to be in the Yahoo! Fantasy rules..

 

I am not a fan of that idea at all. It just seems to punish teams that have a full group of legit keepers and didn't have to hold their nose to pick a 5th/6th name to keep. Whatever rule is used (either an increasing cost or a firm 3 year rule) should help free up some newer names each season in the draft.

But on the other hand, six keepers is quite a lot, and this might throw some good players out there for people to get, which makes the draft a lot more fun and accessible. Some people did get some great steals in the draft, though- hell, I think I had a pretty decent expansion draft except I've made some trades which has basically made over my whole team, and with Johjima gone, I think that leaves less than half of my team that I actually acquired through the draft. But hey, I've won 4 out of my last 5 matchups as I try to claw my way back up to at least the consolation playoffs from last place, so I guess I haven't been too bad. Obsessing and constantly checking on the team kind of helps too, though.

[the pinjockey 0]

At the worst though, the waiver priority is determined by reverse draft order. Since ours is an offline draft, you would just have to input the teams in the reverse order of the determined waiver priority.

 

And not trying to put myself over or anything, but I am in first and my keepers have ranged from zero to a few innings of performance (Liriano, Gallardo, Josh Fields), to mediocre (Vlad), to solid middle reliever (Joba) and one stud (Berkman). So I think the draft may be getting underrated a bit as a team can be built through it (and free agency) without being carried by keepers.

[the pinjockey 0]

If a player is dropped and picked up by another team, he still retains his original draft value because it is essentially like taking on that player’s contract through the remainder of the season. I’m not sure if I had that in the league rules or not, if not it was always assumed to be the standard. If it wasn’t, I’ll include it in the giant keeper section that will get added at the end of the month.

 

Just wanted to argue this point as well. I don't like this idea either. If I pick up someone that got dropped their "contract" should be finished. Of course the cost is kept through trades and if you want to argue against someone dropping their own player and picking him back up still costing the draft slot I won't argue that (as I did with Ervin Santana, though it was not for that reason). But if a player is made a free agent, that should be exactly what they are "free" with no later cost.

[Precious Roy 0]

If a player is dropped and picked up by another team, he still retains his original draft value because it is essentially like taking on that player’s contract through the remainder of the season. I’m not sure if I had that in the league rules or not, if not it was always assumed to be the standard. If it wasn’t, I’ll include it in the giant keeper section that will get added at the end of the month.

 

Just wanted to argue this point as well. I don't like this idea either. If I pick up someone that got dropped their "contract" should be finished. Of course the cost is kept through trades and if you want to argue against someone dropping their own player and picking him back up still costing the draft slot I won't argue that (as I did with Ervin Santana, though it was not for that reason). But if a player is made a free agent, that should be exactly what they are "free" with no later cost.

 

Agreed. To prevent circumvention, If someone picks one of their drafted players back up the player should retain his draft value, but if another team picks the player up it should be a clean slate.

 

I don't see anything wrong with the keepers as set up now. The whole goal in a keeper league is to build a dynasty over time, there's no need to handicap things to make an "even playing field" between established owners and new owners. And really, if you do a good job managing your team there's no reason you can't be a contender in your first couple years. I'm in my second year in this league, my team sucked last year, but so far this year I'm in the top 5, and that's almost entirely through drafting.

[Brett Favre 0]

Most of my keepers I got in trades. If you're really into it, there's no reason why you can't find six suitable guys. Ortiz is the only guy I've drafted and kept.

[Cartman 0]

I have no problem with the way it is set up now...Cole Hamels will never leave my team and will only cost me like a 20th round pick every year until he either retires or sucks.

[Vern Gagne 0]

If a player is dropped and picked up by another team, he still retains his original draft value because it is essentially like taking on that player’s contract through the remainder of the season. I’m not sure if I had that in the league rules or not, if not it was always assumed to be the standard. If it wasn’t, I’ll include it in the giant keeper section that will get added at the end of the month.

 

Things would get quite ridiculous if they didn't keep that value. I can tell you for certain a lot of teams would try and clear players through waivers just to get rid of the original draft value when a guy is slumping. Hell, I would have done it with a ton of my slumping pitchers already. I know I could have snuck Ian Snell and Michael Cuddyer through waivers untouched early on.

 

I'm thinking some changes for keepers should be considered. Like keeping only three or four from last years list.

 

Are you proposing only keeping 3 to 4 keepers total or keeping only 3 to 4 keepers that you kept last year and then keeping 3 to 2 brand new keepers?

 

By the way, everyone needs to check back on Thursday afternoon because I want to get the ball rolling with what we want to do on keeper year duration and get all that stuff hammered out by the end of June. I’ll draft up a couple of possible options from the preliminary discussions we discussed early on in the year. That way teams out of contention can start taking appropriate actions to get ready for next season.

 

That's what I want the discussion to be about. If more people are against the idea that's fine. Just throwing an idea out for consideration.

 

 

[HarleyQuinn 0]

I also have to echo being against the idea but I'm also of the opinion that any team can make a waiver wire pick up at any time. Some of it is luck of course (i.e. Cueto) but there are plenty of moves that are made either through trades or free agent pick ups that yield a keeper or two for half the teams in the league.

 

Like the 6 total and am undecided on the 3-4 last year with 2-3 new but not liking it, simply because it "penalizes" teams for keeping players. Odds are, most teams won't be keeping all 6 keepers from last year anyway (unless they are all uber studs) and I don't like forcing a team to "scrap" a 5th player just because they were kept the season before.

 

As for me, I have 5 keepers in mind and I think 2-3 were "kept" from last year.

[Krankor 0]

Yeah, I'm not really in favor of a 3-4 past and 3-2 new idea either. I think it would be restricting against good teams. I think making a minimum and maximum keepers rule might be beneficial. I know some teams that are terrible probably do not want to keep a total of 6 guys, but teams that are great would be put at a disadvantage by lowering the total keeper total. I think making like a minimum of 4 keepers and a max of 6 would be a fair compromise across the board. What does everyone think? Since it is a keeper league you need to be able to keep at least 4 guys. If you can't find 4 guys you want to keep then your team has serious issues.

 

I do think something that might need to be addressed is the waiver priority. The way it is now the best teams have the first shot at the premium prospects. So where the expansion teams need help the most, they are never going to get it (cheap, FA stud prospects). Whether we went to a randomized order or just keeping the draft order (worst teams get first waiver priority), I think we need to change something up on it.

 

Yeah that's getting fixed next year for sure. The team with the first draft pick is getting the first waiver priority and the team with the last pick is getting the last waiver priority to start things off for the season. It worked out the other way this year because we had an even number of draft rounds and it didn't get noticed until after the season was under way.

 

Just wanted to argue this point as well. I don't like this idea either. If I pick up someone that got dropped their "contract" should be finished. Of course the cost is kept through trades and if you want to argue against someone dropping their own player and picking him back up still costing the draft slot I won't argue that (as I did with Ervin Santana, though it was not for that reason). But if a player is made a free agent, that should be exactly what they are "free" with no later cost.

 

I really think guys getting tagged with the Undrafted/Free Agent value is going to get extremely ridiculous if we do it. I have no problem keeping track of it but it’s a major rule change that potentially would have caused a lot of different add/drop scenarios the previous 2 months of the season so in fairness there is no way to enact it if we decided in favor of it until the 2009 season.

 

There’s going to be a ton of player getting kept with Round 20 values that were drafted in the top 10 rounds that just slumped for a little while or got hurt so a manager had to cut ties with them to make room on the roster. I can see guys like Hamels having the Round 20 value because he was snagged as a rookie when he had no previous value and now he does. That took some research and possibly some waiver-priority luck and should be rewarded. I got Jon Garland off waivers and he hasn't been half bad. I really don't think I should be rewarded with him having a round 20 value just because someone gave up on him early in the season. That's my main argument against it. I don't think a team should be rewarded because someone else gave up on a guy because he was in a minor slump or was hurt and they were forced to make a move. Two examples are Jack Cust and Richie Sexson. Should these guys have the same value as Mike Fontenot or Adam Lind because they spent a stint on the free agent list? I really don't think so. Hell no, those guys are solid players that just went through some slumps.

 

Also, I would not see why if a team drops a player and he clears waivers why they wouldn't get that benefit of him having a round 20 value. No one else wanted him so if you want to reacquire his services then you should be able to with all the perks that other teams would get. Just saying, it would put the team that dropped the guy at a disadvantage to the rest of the league.

 

If the majority of the league would want it we can do it. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense. If you pick up a guy off the free agent list that was drafted, but got dropped, he should have a certain amount of baggage like real players do when they get dropped. He shouldn't be as spanking clean as a Clayton Kershaw. Like Barry Zito with no baggage? Of course someone would want to scoop him up later in the season to take a chance on for next year with that sort of upside. But to make things more realistic, Barry Zito should have A LOT of baggage.

 

[the pinjockey 0]

Honestly, I have always been under the impression that FAs of any variety were able to be kept as 20th rounders. The only way it affected my add/drops was I picked up Kelvim Escobar to stash for a potential keeper under that assumption. Not that I would likely keep him, but options never hurt. I may be the only one, I guess, but I'd like to know if it has really affected anyone else's add/drops. If it has then we can go ahead and wait to start "free" waived FAs next season.

 

I agree that if I drop someone and pick them back up, I shouldn't have to take the draft value if FAs are "free". But being that I am the one most likely affected at this point (Ervin Santana), I am not going to be the one to make the case for it to be that way.

 

And if you get a player who slumped and got dropped, more power to you IMO if they can be a cheap keeper. Everyone had a shot to pick up a Cust, Sexson, Garland, etc. when they were available.

[Krankor 0]

Actually, I just want back and looked at the rules and there should not have been any confusion. The league agreed upon them prior to drafting.

 

D. If a team wants to keep an undrafted player as a keeper, than that undrafted player has the draft value in the following draft of final round selection.

(Example: If a team wants to keep three players chosen as undrafted free agents, then in the following draft these keepers will act as their draft picks in rounds 18, 19, and 20.)

 

E. If a player chosen as a keeper was drafted by another team and acquired via trade or as a free agent, the team choosing the keeper will lose the corresponding round pick that the player was drafted in.

(Example A: If a team trades for Derek Jeter, who was drafted in round three, and wants him as a keeper then Derek Jeter will act as their third round draft pick in the following draft.)

(Example B: Chris Carpenter is drafted in round three and then dropped, probably due to injury. Then another team picks him up out of the free agent player pool and declares him a keeper, the team keeping Carpenter will have a draft value of Round 3 for the following draft not a Round 20 value like an undrafted free agent would.)

 

These weren't new rules. We've had them in effect the past 3 seasons. That's how everyone should have thought that free agent players that were drafted would be if they are selected as keepers.

 

If we want to put it to a vote to alter that rule for the start of the 2009 season we can do that. The current rule will be in place for free agent pick ups this year since it was explicitly mentioned. I'll put it on the docket of stuff we will vote upon. First up will be keeper length, next will be amount of keepers, keeper due date deadline, and last will be the free agent keeper value issue.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I meant to change my pitching lineup up but forgot and left for PA and stuck myself with 4 RP so Im really screwed this week..ugh

[Krankor 0]

I enjoyed Rickie Weeks getting sent to the DL on Monday. Oh well, maybe it'll help my team's OBP.

[the pinjockey 0]

Ok, if it was in there, my bad.

 

And, it could have been worse, at least it wasn't Pujols on your team.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Okay, well I have no problem with keeping things the way they are, except I have a question- why does the minimum keeper limit have to be 4? Why even institute a minimum keeper limit? If someone wants to blow up their team and start from scratch and they can only think of 2-3 guys they want to keep, and send everyone else into the player pool, why not let them?

 

Also, I didn't notice that Josh Hamilton was an undrafted player. Score! So does that mean if I want to keep him and say, Carlos Gomez, but not Bobby Crosby (who I took in round 20) those are my round 19 and 20 picks? That would be pretty sweet. Or would Hamilton count as a #18 since that's what he counted for CC's pick this year?

[Krankor 0]

Hamilton is worth a Round 18 draft pick because that's the round he was selected in giving him that draft value. Last year he was undrafted but he got kept and that gives him a draft round value.

 

So far looking at my keepers it's the same situation as you VX. I had a ton of undrafted guys last year, but this year so far I only plan on retaining 2 of them for next year. Clay Buchholz was Undrafted-Round 20, Scott Baker Undrafted-Round 19, and Justin Upton Undrafted-Round 18. I've already dispatched Baker and Buchholz will be my #20 and Upton will be my #18. I'll probably find some other undrafted guy to throw into the mix. Possibly my Josh Fields pick up, he was worth Undrafted-Round 20 by pinjockey in the draft, if he ever manages to get called up. If not he won't be in the player pool next year since he has yet to log any big league at bats.

 

So Gomez would currently be your 20th and Hamilton would be your 18th. More than likely you'll score another damn fine undrafted guy in the mean time to fill in your 19th spot.

 

And with the possible keeper minimum, it was just a random proposed number. I do think that ever team should be able to find at least 1 keeper to keep. Even if you plan on blowing things up and starting over. I have no problem with varying the amount of keepers from 1 to 6.

 

Typically I blow my team up around mid July... Signs are pointing to that again this year...

 

EDIT: If you decided to keep Crosby your keepers would go: Crosby Round 20, Gomez Round 19, and Hamilton Round 18. Crosby gets the priority at Round 20 since he was your selection there and Gomez was undrafted and would get pushed to the next available free round for you. Either way it works out well for you, I always love keeping productive guys at the end of the draft that way I can concentrate on other areas at the beginning of the draft. And as productive as Hamilton is with a Round 18 value is totally awesome for you. God how I wish I had that.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah, being a tradewhore helped me out there. I turned Pujols (now on the DL) into Derrick Lee and then into Josh Hamilton. The only thing I think I lost out of all that was Manny for Ryan Z., who at first looked like a great deal but is on the DL now indefinitely.

 

I'm hoping Alexei Ramirez can be the next undrafted stud I'm looking for- that's the guy I used my waiver priority on way early in the season when he was batting like shit, and now he seems to have gotten used to the American game and is hitting well. Looking back at the draft is kind of funny now in almost mid-June. Corey Patterson in the 18th round? Haha. WTF was I thinking. He did have a nice start to the season though!

 

EDIT: Speaking of which, now that I've picked up Brandon Morrow from FA thanks to him getting the closer role in Seattle, I have an abundance of relief pitchers and other position players that I'm looking to dump. I'm especially looking for any kind of 2 for 1 deals, particularly for a decent SP. I could offer something like Peralta and Kobayashi for the right price, or even throw in Zimmerman for a good 3B in return if someone else wants to take a chance on him. Let me know!

[Krankor 0]

It’s officially the dog days of the baseball season. In the spirit of it being an election year, we have a bunch of stuff to vote upon. The first order of business, Keeper Duration Options

 

Looking back at our previous discussion these three options seemed to be the most popular options. There were a few other options but everyone generally hated them so they didn't get included in this list. If anyone has any other options that might be popular we can add to the list. For now I suppose we can commence with arguing over these options and I'll keep a tally of who is in favor of which option and the winning option will be what we use as our keeper system. I really would like everyone to vote. If you don't care just post and say you don't care. At least that way I know that you know what's going on and are fine with whatever is decided. For all Options, if a player is traded he would maintain the current contract, Draft Value + Years Remaining @ Value.

 

Option A: Leave the System Alone

We keep it the way it is currently set up. You can keep any player for as along as you would like and that player's draft value is kept constant.

 

Example: Prince Fielder was drafted in round 6 and would therefore be worth a Round 6 draft pick as long as he is listed as a keeper.

 

Option B: Three and Done

All players can only be on a roster for 3 consecutive years. After the 3rd year that player is no longer eligible to be kept by the manager that has had him for 3 consecutive years.

 

Example: Shane Victorino is kept for three consecutives years with a draft value of 15. After three years are up, Shane Victorino can no longer be kept at that given draft value and will be entered back into the player pool to start the next season and will be available for all managers to have a shot at drafting him. The manager that previously had Shane CAN redraft Shane for the fourth year. Shane would then start a new 3 year contract at a new draft value.

 

Option C: The Hybrid

Keepers can be kept for 3 years at their original draft value. After 3 years, if they have a draft value of round 11-20, their round value would have 5 rounds deducted from it. If the player has a draft round value of 1-10, than 3 rounds would be deducted from it. This would happen each year until the player would eventually be worth a first round draft pick.

 

Example: Brian McCann has a draft value of 18. Once three years are up, he would have a draft value to start the fourth season of 13. If kept for the fifth season, he would have a value of 8. If kept for a sixth season, he would have a value of 5. If kept for the seventh season, he would have a value of 2. If kept again, he would have a value of 1 and that value would remain constant until Brian McCann is no longer kept.

 

EDIT: Tally

A: 0

B: 4

C: 14

 

Not Voted: bored, precious roy

[CanadianChris 0]

I vote C. The only option I absolutely hate is A, though.

[the pinjockey 0]

B

C

(insert about an 80000 space gap)

A