Webster Hall Show

[JPopStarKami 0]

Hell yeah, it's almost reaching the quality of the old Kurt/Steph/HHH triangle that helped launch Angle's career in the first place only Kurt's playing the HHH role of the gruff over-confident husband while AJ Styles is playing the Kurt Angle role of the sweet innocent guy who's slowly falling in love with the wife. Kind of a neat contrast I think.

Except people were emotionally invested in that angle, and when it ended so badly, it turned a lot of people off. If this angle ends as badly as the Kurt/Stephanie/Hunter one did, I doubt we'd get the same reaction.

 

I forget, how did that one end? I started watching wrestling a little bit before then, and it's been a while.

[Silence 0]

Stephanie swerved Angle by helping HHH beat him at Unforgiven 2000.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hunter coerced Stephanie into hitting Angle low so he could win. Fans were dying to get behind Hunter and Stephanie turning on Hunter would have made her and Angle incredibly over heels and Hunter a top babyface. But instead we got the first major example of ego overriding business.

[iggymcfly 0]

They kind of needed HHH to stay heel for the Austin story to really make sense though. Because when Austin first went down in 1999 and they did the car wreck angle, it wasn't considered a mystery or anything; it was supposed to be 100% that HHH was behind it. It was just assumed by everyone. Then, when they went back and did the "whodunit" angle, it would have been really lame if we just had the mini-feud between Rikishi and Austin and that was it. We needed HHH to cop to being the mastermind and we needed a sustained Austin/HHH feud. That was planned too far in advance to call an audible and go with a HHH face run instead.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

They kind of needed HHH to stay heel for the Austin story to really make sense though.

 

No, they didn't. The angle wasn't exactly planned out to great detail, so it's not like HHH had to be heel or even involved in the storyline to begin with. In fact, a heel Kurt Angle would have made a far more logical mastermind, because he could have explained that he set it up because when he came into the WWF he saw Austin as the top guy and knew he had to take him out to reach the top.

 

 

Because when Austin first went down in 1999 and they did the car wreck angle, it wasn't considered a mystery or anything; it was supposed to be 100% that HHH was behind it. It was just assumed by everyone.

 

With the angle being not planned out to any great detail, it's debatable than any one person was 'supposed' to be 100% behind it.

 

We needed HHH to cop to being the mastermind and we needed a sustained Austin/HHH feud.

 

Why? A red-hot Kurt Angle with a freshly turned super bitch Stephanie at his side would have made for a far more compelling storyline than what we got. Not only would we have actually got a resolution to the storyline, because there would have been no issues over Angle losing clean, but they would have had the makings of a huge pop when Austin finally got his hands on Stephanie.

 

That was planned too far in advance to call an audible and go with a HHH face run instead.

 

Actually, not a whole lot of that time period was planned much advance, so it's not like they would have been ruining any long-term plans had they turned HHH face.

[iggymcfly 0]

For all the "no long-term plan" stuff you're mentioning here, I guarantee you that they had a long-term plan in place for Austin to get his first PPV title shot since returning at Wrestlemania in his home state. If he feuds with a "red-hot Kurt Angle" who's holding the title in the fall and winter, that's kinda blown. Also, Austin, Rock, and Undertaker were all massively over as faces at that point, and there really wasn't room for Hunter on that side of the fence.

 

If Hunter was going to turn face, it should have been after WrestleMania when Rock was in Hollywood and Austin was a heel. In fact, they were just starting to head that direction around Judgment Day when HHH tore his quad.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

For all the "no long-term plan" stuff you're mentioning here, I guarantee you that they had a long-term plan in place for Austin to get his first PPV title shot since returning at Wrestlemania in his home state.

 

I don't doubt that the plan was for Austin to win the WWF Title in his home state, but nothing says it had to be his only title shot. In fact, it makes more storyline sense that he gets screwed out of his first shot and somehow is forced to enter the Rumble to get his next title shot. Not only does he overcome the odds, like a classic babyface, he gets to finally corner the heel in his own home state. What better way to ensure the biggest pop, and buy rate, by having Austin finally beat up the heel he's been chasing for so long, capture the WWF title, and give the stunner to the bitch who will have been a thorn in his side all the while, and in his home state to boot.

 

If he feuds with a "red-hot Kurt Angle" who's holding the title in the fall and winter, that's kinda blown.

 

Big deal if Austin's first title shot isn't in Texas. Just as long as he wins it there in a storyline that makes sense.

 

Also, Austin, Rock, and Undertaker were all massively over as faces at that point, and there really wasn't room for Hunter on that side of the fence.

 

Sucks for his ego, but sometimes that's just how it goes. You spend a year or so on top of the pile, then move down a few places so others get a run and things remain fresh. In any event, I think with him looking for revenge against Stephanie and Kurt, he'd have been, at worst, the number three babyface. And sometimes, as mentioned, you have to drop down a few places so others can get a run and things can be kept fresh. Hunter was on top for over a year, and it would have been time for a change.

 

If Hunter was going to turn face, it should have been after WrestleMania when Rock was in Hollywood and Austin was a heel. In fact, they were just starting to head that direction around Judgment Day when HHH tore his quad.

 

Looking back, that would have been another good time for him to turn babyface. But the love triangle predated that, and that particular time the fans were already dying to get behind him, with circumstances that I daresay would have made his face turn a lot hotter.

 

 

[iggymcfly 0]

I don't doubt that the plan was for Austin to win the WWF Title in his home state, but nothing says it had to be his only title shot. In fact, it makes more storyline sense that he gets screwed out of his first shot and somehow is forced to enter the Rumble to get his next title shot. Not only does he overcome the odds, like a classic babyface, he gets to finally corner the heel in his own home state. What better way to ensure the biggest pop, and buy rate, by having Austin finally beat up the heel he's been chasing for so long, capture the WWF title, and give the stunner to the bitch who will have been a thorn in his side all the while, and in his home state to boot.

 

Do you really think that Austin/Angle at Wrestlemania would have done "better business" than Austin/Rock? Using the same old "face gets screwed out of a title shot" storyline that happens every year and that Austin himself had done two years previous on the way to a predictable conclusion instead of the top 2 stars in the company colliding with the outcome a total mystery? Remember, your initial argument was that it was "bad business" for HHH to stay heel in late 2000 instead of turning face and letting Angle feud with Austin.

 

 

Sucks for his ego, but sometimes that's just how it goes. You spend a year or so on top of the pile, then move down a few places so others get a run and things remain fresh. In any event, I think with him looking for revenge against Stephanie and Kurt, he'd have been, at worst, the number three babyface. And sometimes, as mentioned, you have to drop down a few places so others can get a run and things can be kept fresh. Hunter was on top for over a year, and it would have been time for a change.

 

It's not about Hunter's position on the card. If anything Undertaker would move down and face mid-carders through WM while the company was sorely lacking for top heels. What would have happened is that you would have had the 4 most over wrestlers in the company all playing face at the same time with no strong heels to play off. Even if Angle gets over a little more from the feud, that still leaves 3 top guys struggling to find a match every month. You can do a face/face match here and there, but that only goes so far. It makes sense to have some balance among the main eventers.

 

Sorry, but I just get really sick of people retro-fitting every match and angle that HHH was involved in to him somehow "using his backstage stroke". It made perfect sense at the time for HHH to stay heel and have Stephanie ultimately return to him. Austin/HHH was a huge program that helped sell PPVs while Kurt Angle adjusted to the main event level and the fans adjusted to him as a main event star.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Whether it makes sense or not, backstage politics are exactly what killed the angle.