TSM Profile: Samoa Joe

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Week 3 of TSM Profile is here...and what better time to dissect this guy than right now?

 

Samoa Joe

 

 

Name: Samoa Joe

Height: 6'2''

Weight: 290

Age: 29

TNA Debut: June 19, 2005

Accomplishments: TNA World Heavyweight Champion, TNA World Tag Team Champion, 3x TNA X Division Champion (which makes him the 3rd TNA Triple Crown Winner along with Kurt Angle and AJ Styles (who's done it 3 times)), RoH World Champion, RoH Pure Champion

 

 

 

Background: Joe arrived in TNA right in time for the company's third anniversary and immediately dominated. He would win 2 X titles and claim the Super X Cup while feuding with AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels. By the middle of 2006, Joe looked to be on pace to become the face of TNA. Then...Kurt Angle showed up and derailed that plan. Angle would end Joe's 18 month unbeaten streak in their first match. Joe would defeat Angle the next month and the two would continue feuding on and off forever. In the meantime...Joe would capture another X division title and the TNA World Tag Team Titles. He would then...again...lose everything to Kurt Angle. Joe finally defeated Angle to capture his first TNA World Heavyweight Championship at Lockdown.

 

 

 

Points for Discussion: Well...Joe is finally the top dog in the company...what would you like to see his title reign look like? What opponents would you like to see challenge for it...and how would you book it to end? What were Joe's best matches in TNA so far(as an Xdivision performer and then as a heavyweight)? How did you feel about Joe's run in the X division? Does it bother you that he never lost to any of the X division guys when he clearly had a rub to give to someone on the way out of the division? It would appear that Angle vs. Joe is something that TNA is going to keep circling back to every so often so in the end they'll have ended up feuding for years...do you like the idea of two guys who are lifelong enemies or should they just keep them apart since it's already been done?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Random video selections:

 

 

[luke-o 0]

The Joe/Angle thing would have been great, but them having matches for 3 PPVs in a row pretty much killed that dead. It doesnt mean as much anymore.

 

I've been a mark for Joe since he came into TNA. I think he went stale and his matches decressed in quality when he went up to the heavyweights, but he has become a big star in the company and someone I look forward to seeing on TV. But I did prefer his run in the X division.

 

Who do I want to see him face while he's champ? Sting for one and AJ for another. A fued with Tomko would be pretty cool and plenty intense, but i don't think Tomko is ready for that type of push.

[The Truthiness 0]

Well...Joe is finally the top dog in the company...what would you like to see his title reign look like?

 

I would like too see it be decent, but I think it's already on the verge of being botched.

 

 

What opponents would you like to see challenge for it...and how would you book it to end?

 

In a perfect world a guy like Lethal, Roode, or Storm would end Joe's title reign.

 

 

What were Joe's best matches in TNA so far(as an Xdivision performer and then as a heavyweight)?

 

His match with AJ Styles and Chistopher Daniels at Unbreakable

 

 

 

How did you feel about Joe's run in the X division?

 

It was a very good run and should've spinned off to a decnt title reign 2 years ago.

 

Does it bother you that he never lost to any of the X division guys when he clearly had a rub to give to someone on the way out of the division?

 

No, he was a monster the way he dominated and then left the division was booked well.

 

It would appear that Angle vs. Joe is something that TNA is going to keep circling back to every so often so in the end they'll have ended up feuding for years...do you like the idea of two guys who are lifelong enemies or should they just keep them apart since it's already been done?

 

Seeing as Joe/Angle haven't set the world on fire the last 4 times they've went against each other,I'm not excited too see them fighting for years to come.

[luke-o 0]

What opponents would you like to see challenge for it...and how would you book it to end?

 

In a perfect world a guy like Lethal, Roode, or Storm would end Joe's title reign.

 

Lethal? Are you serious?

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Lethal vs. Joe was awesome in ROH.

[The Truthiness 0]

Not to mention he's the most over face on the show, not named Joe or a nostalgia act like Sting. He has the talent, has beaten Angle cleanly, beat The Dudley's (by himself), and makes every retarded direction they put him in work and get over. He has somehow took a character that was meant as a rib on a legend, and has made it the most original character on the show, he isn't just one of the guys who is over in the Impact Zone” (because we all know everybody is over in the impact zone, it's a free fucking show. Why wouldnt they cheer everything?), however Lethal is over outside of that setting. People all over legitimately enjoy the character; furthermore he is also a pretty good performer which always helps, he's not like Shark boy and Super Eric where as he can only get over in unbearable comedy storylines.

[luke-o 0]

Yeah, but Jay Lethal - TNA World Heavyweight Champion?

 

I don't buy it.

[cd213 0]

Not to mention he's the most over face on the show, not named Joe or a nostalgia act like Sting. He has the talent, has beaten Angle cleanly, beat The Dudley's (by himself), and makes every retarded direction they put him in work and get over. He has somehow took a character that was meant as a rib on a legend, and has made it the most original character on the show, he isn't just one of the guys who is over in the Impact Zone” (because we all know everybody is over in the impact zone, it's a free fucking show. Why wouldnt they cheer everything?), however Lethal is over outside of that setting. People all over legitimately enjoy the character; furthermore he is also a pretty good performer which always helps, he's not like Shark boy and Super Eric where as he can only get over in unbearable comedy storylines.

 

I agree up until the Shark Boy comment. Have you ever seen Sharky outside of TNA, or even before this Stone Cold Shark Boy crap? There was a WWE show a few years ago that he wrestled in a dark match, and the fans were chanting his name during the main event. Every time he was on TV the fans went nuts. At all the indys he wrestles at, he is one of the most over guys there is. He can and has gotten over without this stupid new gimmick.

 

Eric has the tools to be a good serious lower card wrestler, but he is stuck in this dumb gimmick right now, and he gets some credit for getting it over so far. The fans outside of the Impact Zone were chanting for him at the PPV, and when he debuted, the place went nuts.

[The Truthiness 0]

Yeah, but Jay Lethal - TNA World Heavyweight Champion?

 

I don't buy it.

 

The TNA title is not that prestigious, man.

 

Jay Lethal holding the title, is just as legit as Christian, Joe, Abyss, Rhyno, AJ Styles, Killings, and Jarrett holding it.

 

 

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Lethal holds a win over Angle (which some people can consider a fluke roll up) and over the Dudleys. He needs more wins over top level guys before being taken seriously as a World Title contender.

[The Truthiness 0]

Lethal holds a win over Angle (which some people can consider a fluke roll up) and over the Dudleys. He needs more wins over top level guys before being taken seriously as a World Title contender.

 

He beat Angle clean, one of the few people in TNA can make that claim, he beat The Dudley's/Devine by himself in a street fight. He also had a very good match with Jarrett before the Machismo gimmick. He's over huge, with the right booking he can be just as a legit of a champion as anybody. It's not hard to take anybody seriously when it comes to the TNA title.

[luke-o 0]

Yeah, but Jay Lethal - TNA World Heavyweight Champion?

 

I don't buy it.

 

The TNA title is not that prestigious, man.

 

Jay Lethal holding the title, is just as legit as Christian, Joe, Abyss, Rhyno, AJ Styles, Killings, and Jarrett holding it.

 

Wrong,

 

Christian now looks like a main event player

Joe has always been main event caliber

Abyss, although a mostly naff gimmick, can fill the main event role well. Well, at least he used to be able to, when he had Mitchel as his mouth peice.

Rhino is a main event player

AJ Styles is someone who is a bit in between for me as he fits into most roles. But he's been on the top for so long he could be seen as a credible main eventer

 

Jarrett would be the only one I agree with, he is nothing more than a midcarder who got the "friend push" in WCW and the "Daddy owns the company push" in TNA.

 

But Lethal, wins over people like Team 3D and Angle aside, is not a person who you could take seriously in the main event scene. Yet.

[The Truthiness 0]

Yeah, but Jay Lethal - TNA World Heavyweight Champion?

 

I don't buy it.

 

The TNA title is not that prestigious, man.

 

Jay Lethal holding the title, is just as legit as Christian, Joe, Abyss, Rhyno, AJ Styles, Killings, and Jarrett holding it.

 

Wrong,

 

Christian now looks like a main event player

Joe has always been main event caliber

Abyss, although a mostly naff gimmick, can fill the main event role well. Well, at least he used to be able to, when he had Mitchel as his mouth peice.

Rhino is a main event player

AJ Styles is someone who is a bit in between for me as he fits into most roles. But he's been on the top for so long he could be seen as a credible main eventer

 

Jarrett would be the only one I agree with, he is nothing more than a midcarder who got the "friend push" in WCW and the "Daddy owns the company push" in TNA.

 

But Lethal, wins over people like Team 3D and Angle aside, is not a person who you could take seriously in the main event scene. Yet.

 

Christian is booked as main event player, but he isn't a main event player

 

Joe title reign is 2 years too late, and he's already getting undermined from the jump. He's a fat guy that can't even get the respect of a midcarder

 

Abyss should've been the top face in the company after the Coalition beat down, now he's a dumb guy who's to depressed to wrestle

 

Rhino was booked as a drunk who got the shit beat out of him, by his best friend. That was being ridiculed for it by another drunk in James Storm. They constantly bring up that he fucked up his chance at WWE, which doesn't say much for TNA. Now they have 3D telling him that he's a dumb ass for trusting an guy who has betrayed every friend he's ever had (including him) in Christian, and they're right. They are also saying that he's a pussy compared to his tenure in ECW, which again doesn't say much for TNA, and definitely doesn't scream "main event".

 

Jarrett might be a glorified midcarder, other than Sting and Nash. Who in TNA isn't a glorified micarder?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

See...this is where everyone else is wrong and Truthiness is right, as always:

 

NO ONE SHALL BE ALLOWED TO BE CONSIDERED GOOD UNLESS VINCE MCMAHON PUT YOU IN THE MAIN EVENT SCENE AT SOME POINT.

 

Just remember this simple rule:

 

JBL: Main Eventer

Samoa Joe: Fat

 

Now continue your regularly scheduled discussion

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I don't think anyone would disagree that Lethal COULD get there as a main event player. However, it won't come fast enough by the time Joe's ready to drop the belt, unless they have designs for a Bob Backlund WWWF title reign with Joe.

 

and bps: While I understand what you are saying, I really do think that if you put Joe and JBL together in the same ring, JBL will get the duke. This is not to say that Joe is not as credible as JBL, but JBL has the advantage of being a "main eventer" in a company most perceive to be bigger than Joe's company. It's just how it goes. You saw how they took a midcarder from WWE and put him over Joe in his first PPV match. They took a main eventer from WWE and put him over Joe three times to Joe's one win. TNA has an inferiority complex where they think anyone they can get from WWE is worth more than anyone they got on their own roster. And it shows.

[The Truthiness 0]

See...this is where everyone else is wrong and Truthiness is right, as always:

 

NO ONE SHALL BE ALLOWED TO BE CONSIDERED GOOD UNLESS VINCE MCMAHON PUT YOU IN THE MAIN EVENT SCENE AT SOME POINT.

 

Just remember this simple rule:

 

JBL: Main Eventer

Samoa Joe: Fat

 

Now continue your regularly scheduled discussion

 

Well that's not true I don't consider Angle all that good and WWE put him in the main event. I don't consider Joe bad, but he's booked like a moron and a goof. The only reason I called him fat (other than him being fat) is because, that's what Steiner said about him while he stood there like a goof. Angle came in and zinged Scotty, called Joe a fluke, and again Joe stood there like a goof.

 

JBL isn't a guy I think a company should be built around, but I do think he's a awesome heel, who should be kept at the upper midcarder and plugged in to title matches every now and then, and probably given a transitional run to help get a face over. If he went to TNA he would be the top guy there, I think you know that.

[luke-o 0]

But if your argument is that Joe is not a main event player because he's booked as a chump, then how can you justify putting Lethal as the top guy in the company when he's booked with a comedy gimmick?

[The Truthiness 0]

But if your argument is that Joe is not a main event player because he's booked as a chump, then how can you justify putting Lethal as the top guy in the company when he's booked with a comedy gimmick?

 

My argument was "in a perfect world, Lethal, Roode, or Storm would dethrone Joe". I didn't think I had to say, they need to book it well. I thought people would just have common sense to know, that I meant if everything was done right those 3 guys would be the right guys to get a run with the belt. Hince me saying "in a perfect world, Lethal, Roode, or Storm would dethrone Joe". Angle was also a comedy character most of his reign, when they took his gimmick in a new direction and made him more serious for the Joe match, people brought it. You can easily move Lethal away from the comedy, it worked during the Lethal/MCMG vs 3D/Devine feud.

[cabbageboy 0]

James Storm or Robert Roode have zero business ending a Joe title run. Neither guy has a lick of credibility over a certain level and are little more than midcard fodder, and I can't see that situation really changing soon. Lethal is a bit more complicated, since he's at least over but it's a silly joke sort of over. I don't really see a guy doing a Macho impersonation being given the world title.

 

Now that Joe has the belt the dilemma is when and to whom do you job him? I don't see anyone on the current TNA roster that works for that role. They could always have Angle regain, which is pointless. Or have Joe lose it in the yearly trash known as King of the Mountain, but that's bogus.

 

I did have a good scenario but it falls in the realm of fantasy booking.

[Brett Favre 0]

AJ Styles should defeat him after he feuds with Angle.

[luke-o 0]

But if your argument is that Joe is not a main event player because he's booked as a chump, then how can you justify putting Lethal as the top guy in the company when he's booked with a comedy gimmick?

 

My argument was "in a perfect world, Lethal, Roode, or Storm would dethrone Joe". I didn't think I had to say, they need to book it well. I thought people would just have common sense to know, that I meant if everything was done right those 3 guys would be the right guys to get a run with the belt. Hince me saying "in a perfect world, Lethal, Roode, or Storm would dethrone Joe". Angle was also a comedy character most of his reign, when they took his gimmick in a new direction and made him more serious for the Joe match, people brought it. You can easily move Lethal away from the comedy, it worked during the Lethal/MCMG vs 3D/Devine feud.

 

Even in a perfect world it still doesn't work. Roode and Storm are midcarders (the latter of which needs to change) and Lethal is nothing more than an X division champion. At least for forseeable future.

 

Now if they we're too build up said three wrestlers then you would have a point. But it's going to take time to build all of them up to be main event calibur, so them ending Joe's run isn't going to happen anytime soon. Even in a perfect world.

 

And please do bear in mind that Lethal only got over when he got the Macho gimmick.

[The Truthiness 0]

But if your argument is that Joe is not a main event player because he's booked as a chump, then how can you justify putting Lethal as the top guy in the company when he's booked with a comedy gimmick?

 

My argument was "in a perfect world, Lethal, Roode, or Storm would dethrone Joe". I didn't think I had to say, they need to book it well. I thought people would just have common sense to know, that I meant if everything was done right those 3 guys would be the right guys to get a run with the belt. Hince me saying "in a perfect world, Lethal, Roode, or Storm would dethrone Joe". Angle was also a comedy character most of his reign, when they took his gimmick in a new direction and made him more serious for the Joe match, people brought it. You can easily move Lethal away from the comedy, it worked during the Lethal/MCMG vs 3D/Devine feud.

 

Even in a perfect world it still doesn't work. Roode and Storm are midcarders (the latter of which needs to change) and Lethal is nothing more than an X division champion. At least for forseeable future.

 

Now if they we're too build up said three wrestlers then you would have a point. But it's going to take time to build all of them up to be main event calibur, so them ending Joe's run isn't going to happen anytime soon. Even in a perfect world.

 

And please do bear in mind that Lethal only got over when he got the Macho gimmick.

 

So, He's still got over huge in the company, and he has done his job well in serious situations (which there is few of in TNA). It's not like he's a joke like Shark Boy and Super Eric ( you know, the guy who they just fucked up the tag title scene to get over) Lethal with the right booking would make a realistic champion in TNA. They were headed in a good direction with his character after he single handedly saved the X division. They had a whole ceremony for him and everything. He cut a good promo that the fans were in to, and he wasn't talking like Savage. You could still keep the Macho Man bit with his gimmick, while adding layers to it. All it takes is competent booking and Lethal could be a big player in TNA, same goes for Storm and Roode. The thing is TNA is operated by morons.

[luke-o 0]

Well that goes without saying. But Lethal would have to drop that gimmick if he we're to step up to the main event plate. Which I don't see happening.

[The Buzz 0]

Between Angle, Steiner, Sting, Nash, AJ, and all the other guys there is no reason Joe could reign for a year straight if they wanted him to.

 

To be honest I'm glad Joe got the belt, but I kind of thought the perfect time to put the belt on him was Bound For Glory 2005. I know he was still fresh to TNA, and most would say it was way to early to put the belt on him. But as much as I love Rhino, putting the belt on the hot undefeated Samoa Joe back then couldn't have been any worse.

[luke-o 0]

BFG 05 was the wrong time to put the belt on him, he still needed to be built up then. A perfect time would have been BFG 06, the hight of Joe's popularity.

 

But I am glad that they didn't hotshot him the belt like they did with Christian.

[The Truthiness 0]

They had to blow off the Sting/Jarrett feud at BFG 2006.

[luke-o 0]

Well no shit sherlock. But if you ask me that fued was dragged out for too long and should have ended sooner.

 

Furthermore, if you ask me, Sting vs Joe with Sting as champion would have done better for buyrates that Sting vs Jarrett.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Normally I think that Truthiness has no clue what he is talking about, but I have no real arguments with him in this thread.

 

Jay Lethal, especially since he is in his early 20's... Can be a TNA World Champion, he has shown he has charisma, and way to connect with the crowd, not to mention he is one of the best workers in TNA. Of course he will have to drop that cheesy Black Machismo gimmick to become world champion... But the potential is all there, all he needs is the right booking. Plus Joe/Lethal had some amazing matches in ROH.

 

[King Cucaracha 0]

I always thought Lethal should have been the guy to break Joe's original winning streak and win the X-Division Title. Not least because, at the time, it looked like the best shot Lethal had of getting over as bland young babyface.

 

World Champion? I don't know. Lethal's much more valuable to the X-Division as Black Machismo. There's too many ifs and buts as to whether Black Machismo as World Champion would work or whether people would crap on it. And plain Jay Lethal as World Champion? Not seeing it. Joe and Lethal had some great matches in ROH and the feud was good, but Lethal didn't come off as a huge star cutting his heel promos, so even if they go that route then you've got questions over whether he can hold his own against the established main-eventers on the mic.

 

If Lethal hadn't done the feud with Joe in ROH, I doubt anyone'd be rushing to tip him as the next World Champion, put it that way.