TSM Profile: Scott Hall

[King Kamala 0]

I've thoroughly enjoyed these threads in the WWE and TNA folders so I thought why not start one here? And what better choice to kick this series off than with one of wrestling's most controversial figures, Scott Hall

 

Name: Scott Hall

Height: 6'7''

Weight: 280

Age: 49

Debut: October 1984

Accomplishments: 4 time WWF Intercontinental Champion, 2 time WCW U.S. Champion, 7 time WCW Tag Team Champion, WCW Television Champion, Winner of 1997 World War III battle royal, AWA Tag Team Champion, USWA Unified World Heavyweight Champion, WWC Universal Heavyweight Champion, PWI Tag Team of The Year winner (with Kevin Nash), PWI Most Improved Wrestler (1992)

 

Background: Trained by the legendary Hiro Matsuda, Hall made his debut in 1984 for Championship Wrestling in Florida. Hall first came into the national spotlight in 1986 in The AWA, teaming with Curt Hennig and eventually winning the AWA Tag Team titles. Hall left the dying AWA for the somewhat greener pastures of The NWA but his stint there was short-lived. Following a time touring the independent circuit in Florida and Puerto Rico, Hall returned to WCW as The Diamond Stud. Despite an initial push, The Diamond Stud's run was short lived. Just as it appeared Hall's career had fizzled, he joined the WWF in August 1992 as Razor Ramon, a Cuban-American tough guy, modeled after Tony Montana. Ramon became one of the most notable faces of The WWF's New Generation. In 1996, after the much ballyhooed MSG incident, he left the WWF for WCW with his good friend, Kevin Nash. There Hall attained equal if not greater success than he had in the WWF. Most notably, Hall along with Nash launched a hostile takeover of WCW that would lead to the creation of the mega popular nWo. However, Hall's problems with alcohol (which first surfaced in the last part of his run in the WWF) began to overshadow his ringwork. Hall was released from WCW in '00. After short stints in ECW and NJPW, Hall rejoined the WWF as part of an nWo revival alongside Kevin Nash and Hollywood Hogan. Again, Hall's personal problems overshadowed his wrestling and he was released by the WWF. In the six years since his last run in the WWF, Hall's had short, turbulent stints in TNA and WWC (where he returned to The Razor Ramon moniker).

 

Points For Discussion: How much do you think his personal problems have affected his career? Do you think Hall was ever main event material? What effect has his membership in The Kliq had on his career and his legacy? What were some of Hall's best matches? Some of the most memorable angles he was involved in? What was his better run; in WCW with the nWo or in WWF as Razor Ramon? Providing that he's sober, do you think Hall could still serve a purpose for WWE or TNA, be it in a wrestling or non-wrestling capacity? Do you think Hall has had a lasting impact on the business?

 

Random video selections

[cabbageboy 0]

How much do you think his personal problems have affected his career? A ton. Hall was basically washed up and out of wrestling by early 2000. He wasn't all THAT old either. His problems have basically curtailed any comeback attempts over the years.

 

Do you think Hall was ever main event material? Definitely. Hall had the look, was a better wrestler than someone like Nash, oozed charisma (and machismo). Hell after watching some of this old AWA stuff I am baffled as to how Gagne didn't main event him circa 1986.

 

What effect has his membership in The Kliq had on his career and his legacy? I don't really know. I mean, Hall has never struck me as quite the politician that Nash is and thus I don't think he's as tainted by it. I always imagined Nash would be discussing the booking while Hall was passed out drunk in the corner.

 

What were some of Hall's best matches? Both ladder matches with HBK, maybe some stuff with Bret as well, his IC matches with Diesel are pretty good. Ironically the NWO was his biggest period of success but I can't think of any real good matches he had. Maybe the Goldberg ladder match.

 

Some of the most memorable angles he was involved in? Oh gee, a little thing called the Outsiders and the NWO perhaps. Also his first big WWF angle was fun, teaming with Flair vs. Macho and Perfect. The Kid angle. Feuding with Michaels and Diesel. The disturbing Goldust feud.

 

What was his better run; in WCW with the nWo or in WWF as Razor Ramon? It depends. If you want his actual peak years wrestling it was obviously Ramon. If you want his biggest years as a star who was a draw, then it's WCW.

 

Providing that he's sober, do you think Hall could still serve a purpose for WWE or TNA, be it in a wrestling or non-wrestling capacity? No. He is far too unreliable to bother with at this point. We don't even 100% know why he no showed that TNA PPV.

 

Do you think Hall has had a lasting impact on the business? Tough one really. I think a lot of fans look back fondly on Hall's career, at least the good stuff. But how many people really emulate Hall's style? I don't think there are really all that many.

 

[spman 0]

Scott Hall is probably one of the best examples I can think of of an guy who managed to get over with the right character and the right attitude despite being a mediocre to terrible worker. People don't remember Razor Ramon the wrestler, they remember Razor Ramon the character. When he wasn't loaded, he was at least competent enough to allow workers like Michaels and Jarrett to carry him to decent / good matches, but in general I think it's fair to say that Razor Ramon matches usually stunk up the joint. I definitely think the Kliq association helped Scott Hall more than anyone else, if he didn't get the rub both in the ring, and backstage, from Nash and Michaels, he would have faded away sometime around the beginning of 1995 along with guys like Tatanka, Crush, etc. His pull with the Klique however gave him a steady push and allowed him to remain in a prominent enough position for the entire Outsiders / nWo angle to happen and be as successful as it was. Do you think the nWo would have been the same if it had been say, Tatanka and Bam Bam Bigelow invading WCW? Of course not, that's ridiculous.

 

So I guess my point is that Hall is always a guy that has just ridden along on the coat tails of his political allies, he has very few redeeming qualities on his own that don't somehow directly relate to Nash and / or Michaels, and his Legacy will probably simply be becoming the prototype for the behavior we see in wrestlers today that cause them to drop dead before they turn 40.

 

Now as far as the rest of your questions go:

 

Hall was never main event material, no way, he just wasn't on that level as far as in ring ability and charisma go. Strong upper mid-carder, yes, but that's it.

 

I personally feel his best matches are of course the two Ladder Matches with Michaels, and his match with Jarrett at Royal Rumble.

 

I think the 123 Kid angle was fairly memorable as far as early RAW moments go, and the Intercontinental Battle Royal with Rick Martel as well. Otherwise I can't really remember too many other notable storyline he was involved in.

 

I would say he probably had more success in WWF, but he had more of an impact during his run in WCW.

 

Sober or not, Hall shouldn't return to wrestling, except for Fan Conventions and Indy Appearances, he wouldn't be of any use to either TNA or WWE at this stage in his career.

[Epic Reine 0]

How much do you think his personal problems have affected his career? A lot. Hall has had a lot of second chances in the past and blew them all. He had the nWo revival thing which he fucked up and had THREE different stints in TNA in which he fucked up everytime. I think I can say his last run with TNA was his last shot in the wrestling spotlight.

 

Do you think Hall was ever main event material? I definatley could have saw him as a main eventer in the mid 90's since he was crazy over in the WWF but by the time he got to WCW, he became too much of a stable and tag worker to be taken seriously as a legitimate world title threat. I also think Hall was a much better worker at this time than most people give credit for.

 

What effect has his membership in The Kliq had on his career and his legacy? Well the Kliq was definatley one of the reasons why he was still pushed in the spotlight all the way until the end of his WWF run but at the same time like I said before, Hall was crazy over so it's not like he didn't deserve the spot.

 

What were some of Hall's best matches? Ladder matches with Shawn Michaels and IC title matches with Diesel and Jarrett. I agree that he had no memorable matches in WCW though his match with Goldberg the night he won the world title was decent.

 

Some of the most memorable angles he was involved in? The fake IC title fued with HBK, the stuff with 123 Kid, Outsiders, nWo and although not in a good way, the Scott Hall is an alcoholic angle.

 

What was his better run; in WCW with the nWo or in WWF as Razor Ramon? Workrate wise, definatley his stuff in WWF but as far as overall entertainment and character, definatley his run with the Nwo and Nash in WCW.

 

Providing that he's sober, do you think Hall could still serve a purpose for WWE or TNA, be it in a wrestling or non-wrestling capacity? Anything more than a one-shot deal in WWE would be pushing it. The guy has demons he'll most likley never escape and I'm pretty sure TNA will never take him back again.

 

Do you think Hall has had a lasting impact on the business? Sort of. He had a certain charisma to him with his facial expressions and mannerisms that certain wrestlers try to capture and the cockiness with his character even as a face is influential too.

[Guest]

How much do you think his personal problems have affected his career?

Too much. Without them, he's world championship material. With all of his problems, it's a surprise that he's not dead.

 

Do you think Hall was ever main event material?

 

Because of his personal problems, um, only for about a year in the WWF. Otherwise he was too drunk, high, whatever, to put on consistently good performances.

 

What effect has his membership in The Kliq had on his career and his legacy?

 

If any, a positive one. I don't think it had much of an effect on his career, though. Kliq or not, he was too over to not be pushed at such a high level in the WWF. I don't think the question really applies to his time in WCW.

 

What were some of Hall's best matches?

 

The ladder matches with Shawn were obviously the best, Outsiders vs. Luger and Giant at SuperBrawl '97 (only mentioned that because I just watched it), ladder match with the tazer at Souled Out...there really aren't that many you could classify as top, top matches. But I thought his match with Rick Martel for the Intercontinental Title was bitchin', back in the day.

 

Some of the most memorable angles he was involved in?

 

The mystery partner at Survivor Series '92, fake Intercontinental Belt, the debut of 123 Kid, Starrcade '98, the NWO, obv. There are a lot more, but those are the ones that stick out.

 

What was his better run; in WCW with the nWo or in WWF as Razor Ramon?

 

WCW. The guy was comedy.

 

Providing that he's sober, do you think Hall could still serve a purpose for WWE or TNA, be it in a wrestling or non-wrestling capacity? Do you think Hall has had a lasting impact on the business?

 

First question, only a little. Creatively, I'd like to see what he has to offer. When sober, of course. He has had a lasting impact on the business, if only for other wrestlers to point at him and say, this is what you don't need to do to your life.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I wanna come back to this later, since Scott Hall is one of my all-time favorites. Until then, here's some videos to supplement the OP.

 

Outsiders Shoot, part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRoGQIOQnDI

Scott Hall Shoot, part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzq-6huTPQw

1989, vs Terry Funk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukj0Or27cQc

1999, vs Booker T: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8e6bBxZoWs

Scott "Gator" Hall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFBavMUeS2M

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't get how Kevin Nash could be considered main event material and Scott Hall wasn't, taking out the obvious alcoholism and what not. Nash honestly rewrote the way he is viewed in WCW, because I can assure you there were very few people who thought Diesel was a serious world title contender before he won the belt, and his title run was never over at all.

 

Razor Ramon would have drawn a ton more money as world champion in 1995.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

How much do you think his personal problems have affected his career?

 

They affected his career greatly. Hall had a ton of unrealized potential because he just couldn't beat his demons. He could have done so much more in his career than he did, but his problems always dragged him down.

 

Do you think Hall was ever main event material?

 

Not for anything more than a short-term run, at least as a singles. Hall had great charisma, but main event charisma? Maybe. But his in-ring talent, mic work, and everything else just wasn't at that level. I think the best level for Hall is about where he reached in real life, where he was a strong upper midcard guy who could be put in the main event if needed, and be seen as a threat, but who's primary role is to elevate the next top main eventer.

 

What effect has his membership in The Kliq had on his career and his legacy?

 

I think it clouds his talents and achievements to some degree, but Hall didn't need help to affect his career.

 

What were some of Hall's best matches?

 

I think his best match was the Action Zone tag match teaming with Kid against Shawn and Diesel. His ladder matches with Shawn were, to me, overrated to a degree, even though they were still really good. I think his best matches were against Kliq members, and considering they were just about his only good matches, to me it says more about his motivation than his actual talent ability.

 

Some of the most memorable angles he was involved in?

 

Other than the nWo, nothing stands out.

 

What was his better run; in WCW with the nWo or in WWF as Razor Ramon?

 

As Scott Hall in WCW. It was more high profile, more memorable, and the storyline he's most remembered for.

 

Providing that he's sober, do you think Hall could still serve a purpose for WWE or TNA, be it in a wrestling or non-wrestling capacity?

 

A warning poster for what happens when you let your demons ruin your life. Scott Hall should never be in wrestling again. Ever. Even if Hall wants to beat his demons, he simply cannot beat them when he's in the wrestling business. For the good of his personal life and peace of mind, Scott Hall should never be involved in the wrestling business again.

 

Do you think Hall has had a lasting impact on the business?

 

Maybe as a warning to people that even with a ton of potential and ability, if you can't beat your demons, you're never going to reach the heights you could.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

It's so odd to hear people say that Hall didn't have main event level charisma or in ring work. Good grief, they put the world title on Nash for a YEAR in 1995. Hall is obviously the better in ring worker of the two, and with Nash doing an ill suited babyface form of Diesel I'd say Hall was better on the mic. Diesel vs. Mabel in a world title match, or HBK vs. Razor Ramon in a WWF title ladder match?

 

So really, it was mainly Hall's personal problems that kept him from ever being a main event guy.

[King Kamala 0]

How much do you think his personal problems have affected his career?

A ton. His career as a full-time wrestler was essentially done at the age of 40. If not for them, he would have had a ton more success. Instead, he stands alongside Marty Jannetty as the poster boys of how to completely fuck up a potentially huge wrestling career. He had a good career but he could have had a great one if not for his demons.

 

 

Do you think Hall was ever main event material?

As a heel during the first part of his first WWF run, yes and he sort of was for a brief period. IMO, Razor Ramon was way way better as a heel than a babyface. It's easy to forget now with Scarface posters on every hip hop superstar's living room walls and everybody overquoting in but in '92, that movie was semi-obscure (Allegedly Vince McMahon and Pat Patterson hadn't even seen it- thinking that Hall was some kind of genius) so a Tony Montana knockoff character was as cutting edge you could get for a character based off a ten year old movie. Hall's droll delivery on the mic worked as a heel but didn't quite work as well as a face. I always thought he was the New Generation Equivalent of Jake Roberts as a face, the guy who the top heels would knock off right before facing the #1 babyface. In WCW, the roster was so deep and Hall's problems were so plentiful that he don't think he really had a shot at being more than being an upper mid-card guy, who occassionally gets a main event.

 

 

What effect has his membership in The Kliq had on his career and his legacy?

Not much really. If anything, it sort of hurt it. Ramon was always kind of in the shadow of Michaels and Diesel during their heyday (last part of '95, first part of '96). Hall seemed more genial than his Kliq mates so he always seemed kind of happy to play second fiddle to those guys and he continued to play second fiddle in WCW (with the exception of the beginning of the nWo)

 

What were some of Hall's best matches?

Well there's the obvious ones (Ladder matches, matches with Diesel) but I'm surprised that his matches with Bret in '93 haven't gotten more than a passing mention. I know Bret could carry a broomstick to a *** match by that point but Hall did his fair share of work. Honestly, I can't remember many good matches in WCW but the ladder match with Goldberg at Souled Out '99 was kind of fun and I vaguely recall some decent matches with Ric Flair in '97ish.

 

 

Some of the most memorable angles he was involved in?

Again outside of the obvious ones (nWo, 123 Kid, Fake IC belt), I really enjoyed the little angle leading up to his match with Bret Hart at Royal Rumble '93 where he knocked the shit out of Owen Hart on Mania.

 

 

What was his better run; in WCW with the nWo or in WWF as Razor Ramon?

WCW by a hair, if only for him being the one to kick of the nWo. WWF was a lot better wrestling-wise though.

 

 

Providing that he's sober, do you think Hall could still serve a purpose for WWE or TNA, be it in a wrestling or non-wrestling capacity?

Sure, if he could stay sober whilst staying in the wrestler, he might serve a purpose as a backstage guy or a part-time wrestler. But as Dana Carvey portraying George H.W. Bush would say "Not gonna happen". I agree with HTQ, for Hall's own good, he should probably call it a career.

 

 

Do you think Hall has had a lasting impact on the business?

Like I said earlier, Hall is a fine example to young, aspiring wrestlers of how to completely fuck up a wrestling career. In-ring wise, I think his legacy lives on with this guy (Seriously watch that first Razor vignette I posted. Razor even spits an apple in someone's face. Hall should sue!)

 

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

"Scott Hall was run over after the PPV. He was outside a bar and fell down. Wes Benton, a WCW employee, didn't see him behind him and backed out, and heard a scream. Benton stopped the car, which was on top of Hall's ankle. He realized and moved the car off the ankle. It was nothing serious." - The Wrestling Observer Newsletter: March 01, 1999

 

 

Really though, Scott Hall has been my favorite wrestler from the time he debuted as Razor Ramon.