Heels/Faces and a general WTF

[Boxer 0]

Ok, first off, WTF? I stopped watching WCW around after the fingerpoke, but thanks to youtube, etc...... I've been watching all the stuff I missed.

 

This time is EXTREMELY confusing to me. Let's start off with some stars.

 

Sting: Why is he a heel? He was never over as a heel and I then I see he turns face a few weeks later. Why, WHY, did they make him heel?

 

Luger: Unless I'm wrong, was his heel run a straight period of all of 1999 and not just a heel than face, than heel turn?

 

Hogan: Was there really a need for Hogan to turn face? Why exactly did he turn again? I thought the nWo reformed after the fingerpoke kept him heel?

 

Bret Hart: Didn't he like turn face and heel a few times during this year? They could've ran with him in 1999, especially after all the Hogan stuff, but did he spend most of 1999 teaming with Hogan? How did these guys go from SO hated to So loved?

 

Sid: What was he? I have a hard time following if he was heel or face?

 

DDP: So he turned heel by cheating after winning the WCW title. Why? It went against EVERYTHINg he believed in, being the people's champion. Someone?

 

Flair: was it 1999 or 2000 when he went to the mental institution? Was this the year he turned heel and face multiple times?

 

Goldberg: Where was he? Injured? Was there another streak he was working on?

 

Those are just a few guys I'm wondering about.

 

In 1998 basically the heels were faces and the faces were heel. Why did WCW go so ass-backwards in 1999?

 

What was Hall and Nash doing for most of 1999 until nWo elite reformed?

 

Benoit, Malenko, Jericho, Eddie, etc............ what were they doing? I know Jericho jumped mid-way in 99, but was it really hard to push the others? The revolution, what was up with that?

 

Man, this confusion is just making it hard to watch all this stuff, I can see why WCW went to hell.

 

I leave with one thought, did Nash book all this shit?

 

If anyone can answer any of these questions, it is MUCH appreciated.

[Richard 0]

Sting was turned heel because whoever was booking at the time wanted to swerve us. I thought it made sense from a storyline perspective, but the problem was nobody was going to cheer Hogan over him.

 

Luger turned heel during the fingerpoke incident and was injured soon after. He came back a few months later to play Sting against Hogan, which he ended up doing. Then he and Sting ended feuding at the end of the year.

 

Hogan and Flair had a "double-turn" at Uncensored, though Hogan was more of a tweener until he got injured. Then he came back, and ended up allied with Sting and Goldberg against Nash (who turned heel for some reason, Sid, and Rick Steiner).

 

Bret was injured for most of the first few months of the year, but was a heel the whole time. He turned face after Owen's death, returned in the fall and pretty much wrote the wave of sympathy until his nonsensical but totally predictable heel turn when the NWO reformed.

 

Sid debuted as a heel to help Savage. Then he was allied with Rick Steiner and the Outsiders until Sid turned face and feuded with Nash. He remained a face until his aborted feud with Hogan in the spring of '00.

 

DDP turned heel because Nash wanted to win the belt as a face.

 

Yes this was the year Flair went to the loony bin. He turned heel at Uncensored and I think he went face again sometime in the fall before disappearing for awhile.

 

Goldberg was around in the upper midcard.

 

WCW went ass-backwards because it's WCW.

 

Hall was out most of the year. Nash went from face Wolfpac leader to heel NWO elite to top face to heel in order to fight Hogan to retired to Hall's manager to active wrestler.

 

Benoit and Malenko were Horsemen, turning heel when Flair did. They turned face again to set up a young vs. old storyline that primarily pushed Buff Bagwell. Then they formed the Revolution with Shane Douglas and Saturn. The group soon turned heel as Benoit went solo and feuded with the Filthy Animals which included Eddie Guerrero who was out much of the year due to a car crash.

 

 

So in summary: injuries, Bischoff leaving WCW in the hands of Nash, and Russo having too much freedom added up to a year of crap.

 

 

 

 

[JST 0]

Props to Richard for bringing forward reasonable answers, but a thread like this invites chaos.

[Boxer 0]

Sting was turned heel because whoever was booking at the time wanted to swerve us. I thought it made sense from a storyline perspective, but the problem was nobody was going to cheer Hogan over him.

 

Luger turned heel during the fingerpoke incident and was injured soon after. He came back a few months later to play Sting against Hogan, which he ended up doing. Then he and Sting ended feuding at the end of the year.

 

Hogan and Flair had a "double-turn" at Uncensored, though Hogan was more of a tweener until he got injured. Then he came back, and ended up allied with Sting and Goldberg against Nash (who turned heel for some reason, Sid, and Rick Steiner).

 

Bret was injured for most of the first few months of the year, but was a heel the whole time. He turned face after Owen's death, returned in the fall and pretty much wrote the wave of sympathy until his nonsensical but totally predictable heel turn when the NWO reformed.

 

Sid debuted as a heel to help Savage. Then he was allied with Rick Steiner and the Outsiders until Sid turned face and feuded with Nash. He remained a face until his aborted feud with Hogan in the spring of '00.

 

DDP turned heel because Nash wanted to win the belt as a face.

 

Yes this was the year Flair went to the loony bin. He turned heel at Uncensored and I think he went face again sometime in the fall before disappearing for awhile.

 

Goldberg was around in the upper midcard.

 

WCW went ass-backwards because it's WCW.

 

Hall was out most of the year. Nash went from face Wolfpac leader to heel NWO elite to top face to heel in order to fight Hogan to retired to Hall's manager to active wrestler.

 

Benoit and Malenko were Horsemen, turning heel when Flair did. They turned face again to set up a young vs. old storyline that primarily pushed Buff Bagwell. Then they formed the Revolution with Shane Douglas and Saturn. The group soon turned heel as Benoit went solo and feuded with the Filthy Animals which included Eddie Guerrero who was out much of the year due to a car crash.

 

 

So in summary: injuries, Bischoff leaving WCW in the hands of Nash, and Russo having too much freedom added up to a year of crap.

 

Thank you, thank you very much. At least now with a working understanding, this stuff can be easier to digest.

[cabbageboy 0]

Oh man I gotta chime in on this one given my previous threads about WCW in 1999 in the past. Richard already gave a good answer but I'll elaborate on some of it further.

 

Hogan/Sting: Hogan pseudo turned face at Uncensored 1999, though in storyline it made zero sense. Unlike Bret/Austin there was no shades of gray that led to Flair going heel and Hogan turning face. Hogan got hurt at the next PPV so this was put on hold until he got back in July 1999, where he went back to the red and yellow look.

 

Sting's "heel" turn was something no one bought at all because even in storyline terms his motives made total sense. Luger was messing with him and Hogan, trying to say Hogan was the Hummer driver, so Sting eventually kicked Hogan's ass. It didn't work since no one bought Hogan in that act in 1999 and Sting was too ingrained as a face in the minds of fans.

 

Bret Hart didn't do much in the first part of 1999. He had a forgettable heel US title run, then eventually Owen's death put him on the sidelines for quite a while. He also did the Goldberg angle. Eventually he came back as a face, had the Benoit match on Nitro as a tribute to Owen, won the world title during the Russo era, then turned heel AGAIN at the end of the year.

 

Sid was a heel doing a win streak angle and debuted during the Hummer angle fiasco. Eventually he started getting pops or something and once he feuded again with Nash he just ended up as a face.

 

DDP had a horrible heel turn. He had been off TV after Steiner injured him, then came back with no heat left and turned heel. He didn't really cheat to win the title exactly. I personally think this dead end angle led to fans tuning out in droves.

 

As far as Goldberg goes....you got me there. After May I don't recall what he was doing until he came back to face DDP in September. Was he filming Universal Soldier 2?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

DDP won the world title at Spring Stampede 1999 in a Fatal Four Way consisting of himself, Hogan, Sting, and Flair after nailing Flair with the Diamond Cutter (Randy Savage made his return after a 4 month hiatus by being the special guest referee for the match and turned on Flair before DDP won the match because of Savage's hatred for Flair).

 

Shortly afterwards, DDP turned heel by cheating to retain the title when he was defending it against Goldberg on Nitro. The match ended in a no-contest. DDP stayed with his cheating ways until losing the title to Nash at Slamboree.

 

 

As for Hogan, IIRC he was started to get cheered so him and Flair did the lame double turn at Uncensored. He took time after Spring Stampede either because of surgery for his knee injuries or probably to film a movie (Shadow Warriors II or Muppets In Space, I can't remember which). He won the title from Savage again on the night of his return and went back to sporting the red and yellow of Hulkamania the following month on Nitro following a backstage segment talk with his son, Nick, who asked him to wear the classic colors again.

[DarKnight 0]

As far as WCW in 1999 goes, yeah, they were all fucked up. There were way too many guys doing heel and face turns every week, and some guys would just disappear for about half the year, like Goldberg, Bret, and Scott Hall. The thing thats really hilarious about the fingerpoke angle that no one remembers, was that was the show where Luger turned heel, and pretty much stayed heel for the rest of the company's existence. I guess the fingerpoke angle just overshadowed his heel turn that much, huh?

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't recall much that Luger did after he turned heel though, so it was kind of a wash until he got involved with Flair more and also the Hummer angle later in the year.

 

I don't recall Hogan getting cheered at all in early 1999. The guy just did a friggin Fingerpoke angle with Nash, had screwed Flair numerous times, had David turn on his dad, etc. Where was this booking that led to him turning face? He seemed like a pretty big douche if you ask me. They were going for Austin/Bret but didn't consider a few things:

 

1. Austin and Bret were a lot younger and had a vastly better match.

2. The previous booking of Austin/Bret planted the seeds of Bret veering to the heel side while Austin was started to get cheers. Hogan was simply a flat out heel asshole, while Flair was fighting the NWO odds. There was no real reason to turn those guys aside from their egos wanting it.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I don't recall Hogan getting cheered at all in early 1999. The guy just did a friggin Fingerpoke angle with Nash, had screwed Flair numerous times, had David turn on his dad, etc. Where was this booking that led to him turning face? He seemed like a pretty big douche if you ask me.

 

It wasn't booking at all. I'm pretty sure the crowd (forgot which city it was) just wanted to cheer for Hogan again so that WCW just went with it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hogan and the rest of the top heels were getting cheered all the time in 1999. They all either had booking power or heavy influence over those who did, and made themselves out to be cool heels, while the babyfaces were made out to be impotent, ineffective and as pathetic as possible. Why wouldn't the heels get cheered?

[cabbageboy 0]

I seem to recall the Superbrawl 1999 crowd being pro NWO but I just chalked that up to it being in Oakland and didn't think of it as a long term trend. What I mean is there were no booking steps taken to get Hogan into a face position or Flair into a heel position. They just....did it. In the month leading up to that Uncensored double turn Flair had his own son turn on him and join the NWO, was buried in the desert and beaten every week, etc. Hogan had done nothing to imply he was going face and Flair had done little to turn heel. Even if crowds were reacting a certain way at times you have to plant seeds in the booking.

[Richard 0]

I think Nash and Bagwell were the only two members of the main NWO group to not miss a significant amount of time. That caused the group to disband anti-climatically until Starrcade. I don't know how Nash turned face, but I think Buff finally split from Steiner well after people stopped caring. Then Rick Steiner turned and joined his brother for some reason.

 

Sometime I'll look though old show reports and try to make sense of it all. Even Bret's feud with Will Sasso. You forgot didn't you?

 

 

[Youth N Asia 0]

There is no sense or logic in questioning WCW from 99 to 01. We all know that each and every one of us could have booked every single thing better. And that is not sarcasm.

[cabbageboy 0]

That Bret/Sasso stuff was just a cheesy TV thing for a couple weeks and had no real importance. Ignore for your own sanity.

 

Now that I think about it I have zero recollection of how the Steiners got back together or why Bagwell went face. That entire angle from 1998 was so horrid that I tried to wipe it from memory. I think eventually Bagwell just turned face and Rick Steiner simply made up with his brother....was there more to it than that?

[Steviekick 0]

I think your right; I remember Bagwell kinda going off on his own and the Steiners teaming up together again. I looked over on OWW and basically it said that the two Steiners feuded for a while, Rick disappeared and then reappeared to help Scott win the TV title.