More Middle East turmoil

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

No, that wouldn't satisfy Hamas.

 

It would take at LEAST right of return for Hamas to recognize Israel, and there's no way in hell Israel is allowing for that.

 

Yeah but maybe if Palestinians were given their own independent state and were allowed to live in conditions appreciably better than those of a giant prison camp perhaps popular support for radical groups like Hamas would drop somewhat?

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Seriously dudes, click that link (and if you have time, read the full report). It's astounding.

 

Poverty and Dependency on Food Aid

 

• *Number of people living in absolute poverty in Gaza in 2008: 80%

*Number of people living in absolute poverty in Gaza in 2006: 63%

*In 2007, households were spending 62% of their income on food.

*In 2004, households were spending 37% of their income on food.

*As of March 2008, there were over 1.1 million people—three quarters of Gaza—who are dependent on food aid. In less than ten years, the numbers of families who depending on UNRWA food aid has increased ten-fold

[EricMM 0]

in 08 they're living in poverty because Israel has sanctions put on them because their govt. is hostile towards Israel.

 

Your point?

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Your point?

 

That's it's a complete humanitarian crisis and quasi-immoral and support for Hamas (and other groups) isn't going to go away until either a) living conditions in Gaza improve or b) all the Arabs die.

[BruiserKC 0]

Your point?

 

That's it's a complete humanitarian crisis and quasi-immoral and support for Hamas (and other groups) isn't going to go away until either a) living conditions in Gaza improve or b) all the Arabs die.

 

Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel as a legal country hurts their cause and in reality the only way it gets resolved for them is either...

 

a) Hamas is wiped out or

 

b) They push Israel to live in the Mediterranean at the bottom of the sea.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Intel analyst form Center for Strategic and Intl. Studies:

 

If Israel has a credible ceasefire plan that could really secure Gaza, it is not apparent. If Israel has a plan that could credibly destroy and replace Hamas, it is not apparent. If Israel has any plan to help the Gazans and move them back towards peace, it is not apparent. If Israel has any plan to use US or other friendly influence productively, it not apparent.

 

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/15059

 

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Israel bans Arab parties from running in upcoming elections

 

By The Associated Press

 

The Central Elections Committee on Monday banned Arab political parties from running in next month's parliamentary elections, drawing accusations of racism by an Arab lawmaker who said he would challenge the decision in the country's Supreme Court.

 

The ruling, made by the body that oversees the elections, reflected the heightened tensions between Israel's Jewish majority and Arab minority caused by Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Israeli Arabs have held a series of demonstrations against the offensive.

 

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054867.html

 

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting.

-Gaza War correspondent Joe the Plumber

 

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/11/joe-plumber-media/

 

[Mike wanna be 0]

Clarify for me, someone:

Despite the fact that 80% of them live in poverty...they still support the government that is apparently the exact reason they are impoverished? Why aren't they revolting or something if conditions are that bad?

[EricMM 0]

The reason they're impoverished is that they're Blockaded.

 

They blame Israel for that.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Clarify for me, someone:

Despite the fact that 80% of them live in poverty...they still support the government that is apparently the exact reason they are impoverished? Why aren't they revolting or something if conditions are that bad?

 

No, actually Hamas provides social services that people desperately need. They weren't "the government" until very recently, and it's not like life for Palestinians has suddenly become desperate in the last couple of years.

 

[Mike wanna be 0]

So Hamas doesn't trust Israel to open the borders and won't stop firing rockets into Israel until they are opened...but Israel won't open the borders because they don't trust Hamas?

 

Fuck it, let them go, last man standing wins. Pick a side, fight to the death, maybe then there'll be some peace for a little while.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

So Hamas doesn't trust Israel to open the borders and won't stop firing rockets into Israel until they are opened...but Israel won't open the borders because they don't trust Hamas?

 

Fuck it, let them go, last man standing wins. Pick a side, fight to the death, maybe then there'll be some peace for a little while.

 

Seems like that would be better than this never ending self fulfilling prophecy thing they're stuck in at this point.

[cbacon 0]

1100 Palestinians dead, about 300 of them children. The CBC reported children in Gaza being found starving beside their dead mothers.

 

14 dead Israelis.

 

"First and foremost, those rocket attacks have to stop."

[bob_barron 0]

1100 Palestinians dead, about 300 of them children. The CBC reported children in Gaza being found starving beside their dead mothers.

 

14 dead Israelis.

 

"First and foremost, those rocket attacks have to stop."

 

Awesome, way to go Israel! That's Persian Gulf war level ass-kicking.

[EricMM 0]

Would it be better of 300 Israeli children died?

 

Fairer?

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Well, not. But Hamas is hardly equipped to inflict that kind of damage and so that's a totally irrelevant question.

 

Israel also apparently shelled the UN headquarters in Gaza. Whoops.

[EricMM 0]

The fact remains that Hamas is equipped to do damage, and has, and does, and currently will.

 

Israel must, to protect its people, change that to won't.

 

How could they do otherwise?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, not. But Hamas is hardly equipped to inflict that kind of damage and so that's a totally irrelevant question.

 

Israel also apparently shelled the UN headquarters in Gaza. Whoops.

 

Yeah, well, when the UN doesn't go out of their not to employ Hamas operatives, stuff like that is going to happen.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Israel must, to protect its people, change that to won't.

 

How could they do otherwise?

 

And the best way to go about that is by engaging in what is essentially collective punishment?

 

And again, in addition to being of questionable morality and legality, this sort of "strategy" doesn't work. They killed a thousand Lebanese civilians in '06 and made refugees out of thousands more and yet Hezbollah isn't any weaker now than it was two years ago. Why should it work any better this time?

 

Oh and:

 

Hamas’s militants fired more than a dozen rockets into Israel, including four longer-range ones that landed near the cities of Beersheba and Ashdod, sending a message of menace but causing no injuries. Three rockets were also fired from Lebanon into northern Israel, and Israel returned fire to the source.

 

Also on Wednesday, nine Israeli human rights groups called for an investigation into whether Israeli officials had committed war crimes in Gaza. The groups say that tens of thousands of civilians in Gaza have nowhere to flee, the Gaza health system has collapsed, many people are without electricity and running water, and some are beyond the reach of rescue teams.

 

“This kind of fighting constitutes a blatant violation of the laws of warfare and raises the suspicion, which we ask be investigated, of the commission of war crimes,” the groups said in a news conference on the 19th day of the war.

 

Welp

[Nightwing 0]

1100 Palestinians dead, about 300 of them children. The CBC reported children in Gaza being found starving beside their dead mothers.

 

14 dead Israelis.

 

"First and foremost, those rocket attacks have to stop."

 

Don't you have some cops to "legally resist"? And where are you quoting that number from, because I've seen anything from 1,200 to 600, and none of them name the amount of children, nor the amount of combatants.

 

I agree that we need to get Israel to stop this. This is exactly the type of thing the UN was designed to handle, but never does. I'm at a loss, though, at a way to bring them back to the table without putting some sort of UN Security Force onto the ground in Gaza to keep both sides under control. It's not like the Israelis wouldn't be looking to deal, especially in a two-state solution, considering they're going to be the minority in their own country if they don't by 2020.

[Guest]

Israel declared a unilateral ceasefire a few days ago. They destroyed almost all of Hamas' weaponry, so unilateral is all that's needed. When Hamas restocks they will probably start firing again, but they called a ceasefire too. If you don't have weapons it kinda goes without saying that you won't fire.

[Nightwing 0]

What if they need to control their own citizens? I mean, when you say they destroyed all their weaponry, what about police station houses and such? I mean, doesn't that only make things worse? I'm not arguing that they shouldn't have destroyed their weapons, but that there needs to be some sort of non-Israeli/Arab security force on the ground to keep things in order.

[Guest]

Hamas uses police stations to fire their weapons into Israel. The police also comprise their security force, and many of them also are part of the Hamas military wing.

 

but that there needs to be some sort of non-Israeli/Arab security force on the ground to keep things in order.

I agree with this. However, if that security force sees Hamas launching rockets, what then should they do?

[Nightwing 0]

Hamas uses police stations to fire their weapons into Israel. The police also comprise their security force, and many of them also are part of the Hamas military wing.

 

but that there needs to be some sort of non-Israeli/Arab security force on the ground to keep things in order.

I agree with this. However, if that security force sees Hamas launching rockets, what then should they do?

 

I totally understand, I'm just saying that there needs to be intervention. It's part of the reason that Israel is making the situation worse: You might be killing an enemy combatant... but you're also killing someone who fulfills the same role as a cop, which makes things even more out of control since there is basically no civil protection when they are done. It's just how fucked up the situation is and why we need to intervene.