WrestleMania Roundtable Part One: The Early Years (1985-1990)

[King Kamala 0]

Welcome folks to a new mini-series of roundtables where some of the wrestling folders' most respected posters will take a look back at WrestleManias through the years.

 

Let's introduce our participants;

 

Alkeiper: Expert in the only things that matter in life (baseball, pornography, and pro wrestling) and all around good guy.

Dandy: Top 32 poster of '08. Close personal friend of Matt Young.

Hunter's Torn Quad: Former moderator for the wrestling board. His knowledge of professional wrestling, especially on the historical side, is unmatched.

MilleniumMan831: WWE Legacy expert and '80s WWF connoisseur.

King Kamala Classic: Some jerk. Our leader for this journey through time.

 

WrestleMania

Alkeiper:I think Wrestlemania 1 gets a bad rap. Fans compare it to subsequent PPVs when the concept of a wall-to-wall supercard was not really established yet. You had big matches, but mostly it was about loading the top of the card. Wrestlemania 1 was about star power, and they loaded up on celebrities and big moments. The main event tag was more than passable for a celebrity match

Dandy: Good point, Al. Looking back, it might be seen as a disappointment. However, this was their first attempt at a huge show. It also doesn't hold up as well due to the wrestling style evolving into what it has become. Some of the big moves back then were bodyslams and backbrackers. If you saw a piledriver, it was quickly followed by paramedics draping a sheet over the guy. This entire thing was to officially kick off the Rock 'n' Wrestling experience. Hogan and Piper delivered, as I don't think there goal was to put on a mat clinic. Wrestlemania definitely achieved its goal.

Hunter’s Torn Quad: It's not always about how you start the race. Cosmetically speaking, WM I doesn't match up to future ones, either in terms of match quality, glitz or anything else, but at the time it was huge and that's all that matters It was your basic card with big, in terms of star power, main event. It might not have delivered the snowflakes, but it didn't have to, nor was it designed to. It was designed to kick off the period Rock 'n' Wrestling and it did it in grand fashion.

King Kamala Classic: I can understand the show's historical importance and I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far but at the same time I can also say that even by 1985 standards, the card is kind of dull wrestling-wise. It sort of has the feel of a bleh MSG show with some celebrities thrown out there. Presentation wise (outside of the aforementioned celebs)- I don't really think there's anything that differentiated it from the average MSG card actually. Like I think's been said the spectacular presentation that we associate with WrestleMania didn't really come into place until III. But yeah- one of those shows that I understands its importance but I don't really care for watching.

MillenniumMan831:Obviously, most of the matches just come and go, unlike most MSG shows, there seemed to be a healthy buzz the entire night. I had a friend over to watch No Way Out. He's a bare bones casual fan, but when he saw the WM1 recap package, he was amazed by the amount of celebrities "Holy Shit! This is all one event?!?" was the gist of it. Plus unlike Crockett, it was giving the fans what they wanted . . . Andre over Studd, Richter over Kai, Hogan/T over Piper/1derful. The image of T having Piper up in the fireman's carry w/ Hogan pointing to the heavens is pretty awesome

Alkeiper: I would say that rather than the beginning of Rock n Wrestling, this was the culmination

MillenniumMan831: I agree

King Kamala Classic: yeah I'd agree. I think it had been building up since Hogan beat Sheiky Baby.

Dandy I both agree and disagree Depending on how you view it. This was when it "arrived" on a national level as the entire event was basically "Here's the next big thing, America!" by Vince McMahon and his promotion.

Alkeiper. And Richter/Moolah was on MTV in the Summer of '84. THAT was the beginning, IMO

King Kamala Classic I think it became even more kid-oriented though after WrestleMania I

Dandy: I don't think "Rock 'n' Wrestling was adult-oriented. It was meant to tie in the celebrity aspect with carnival wrestling sideshow.

Hunter’s Torn Quad: It definitely turned almost entirely family friendly after WM 1

Dandy: Bundy trying to kill Hogan and was family-oriented?

Hunter’s Torn Quad: 'Almost'

MillenniumMan831: I'd say it was more family oriented than kid oriented

Dandy: They had day-time shows and a cartoon show...that had to have family-oriented programming. However, that was just diversification.

alkeiper so best match was probably Hogan/T vs. Piper/Orndorff

King Kamala Classic: yeah I'd probably agree the main event was the best.

alkeiper : As an aside, Blassie's post-match protestation that he didn't carry a cane deserves a mention as a great moment.

Dandy: I agree on the match. It had a big-time feel to it, and was very entertaining. Good promoting and star power won out.

MillenniumMan831: I still don't believe Buddy Rose was the Executioner

King Kamala Classic: Tito gets his first (and only) WrestleMania victory

MillenniumMan831: Poor Tito did have to overcome a lot of cheating by heels in subsequent years

Alkeiper: For worst match, I'll actually go with JYD/Valentine. Andre/Studd and Richter/Moolah weren't tremendous, but they had memorable moments

King Kamala Classic: I remember David Sammartino/Brutus Beefcake being kind of lousy and sort of long given the pace of the rest of the card.

Alkeiper: oh yeah, forgot Sammartino/Beefcake

 

MillenniumMan831 Nothing shouted out to me THIS MATCH SUCKS

King Kamala Classic: yeah, same. Nothing was particularly great, nothing was particularly lousy.Just kind of bleh, wrestling wise

 

WrestleMania 2

alkeiper: Wrestlemania 2 of course gave us the three arena format, obviously an attempt to top Jim Crockett running two arenas for Starrcade '85. What is forgotten is that closed circuit was still a viable entity in this era, so the idea of running multiple live shows was appealing. The fans would pay extra for a live show, and still see the closed circuit portion of the card.What failed here more than anything is that the NYC portion of the event failed to deliver, and gave us what is still WM's worst match in Mr T vs. Piper. Bulldogs v Dream Team was a very good match, JYD/Santana v the Funks is a forgotten gem. The battle royal was entertaining, and the Hogan/Bundy cage match was watchable.

Dandy: I don't know what you are smoking, Al, but Mr. T vs. Piper in a boxing match is not the worst Mania match ever. It should be put up against other non wrestling events at Mania, and the sumo match was way worse. To me, there were better matches, less jobbers, and a better main event due to it being a singles match, and in a CAGE no less. I can't believe that this was the only cage macth in Mania's history, as was stated on the recap a couple weeks ago. Al was spot on with the three different arenas aspect of live gate, merchandise, etc., and I liked that each arena had its own "main event." They were still toying with the format of Wrestlemania at this point, and they hadn't exactly caught lightning in a bottle yet. Pretty memorable event and a step up over the first Mania in my opinion.

Hunter’s Torn Quad: I think this WM was built around two things; the novelty of seeing a mini-card live and the rest of the show on closed circuit, and the idea that an injured Hulk Hogan is getting inside of a cage with a 400lbs monster who very well may squash him into a pancake. You had the celebrites, too, so there was the glitz there. But this was sold on the three locations deal, as well as the idea that the hero to millions is going into the fight of his life, injured, against a behemoth, inside of a cage, and he might not make it out in one piece, if at all. As a show, it was ok, but I don't know that it was considered a good follow up to the first one. Next

King Kamala Classic: I saw this show the first time via the Coliseum video and I absolutely hated it. Thought it was one of the worst WrestleManias ever but then a couple years back I watched the live version and it improved vastly. I think that Coliseum version has put WrestleMania 2 in the discussion of worst WrestleMania ever. It just feels really rushed and kind of odd. But yeah---the unedited version is a big improvement. I wouldn't call it a great show or even a good one but it's a step up from WrestleMania I wrestling wise. Both of the tag team matches are a hell of a lot of fun. Steamboat carries Hercules to a decent match. I'm a sucker for battle royals and the NFL/WWF battle royal is one of my favorites. Hogan/Bundy isn't a bad Hogan/fat guy formula match. Obviously they were still working out the kinks. The guest celebrity announcers in each city was a pretty lame idea. Oh man, Susan St. James may have been as bad as Art Donovan. The NYC portion as a whole was lame but overall an improvement over WrestleMania I.

 

MillenniumMan831: No way was Susan St James anywhere near as bad as Art Donovan , yeah they went balls to the wall on the celebrities, guest timekeepers, ring announcers, gatekeepers, and judges blitzed this 3hr WM. I didn't mind the format as a one time deal. Doesn't hurt to try. The NY version was crapola. Should have shaved a round off of Piper/T as that started to drag. The two tag matches were extremely fun and easy to watch as was seeing Adonis bump, flail, and flip around Los Angeles. The battle royal was hot w/ Fralic and Perry turning in some nice performances. The cage match didn't do wonders for me but I didn't hate it either. As a kid, I actually liked seeing Savage getting crapped on by Steele only for him to get a cheap win. Look at the hair on that torso.And St James having a feminine voice makes her miles ahead of Donovan w/ his loud piercing tone

alkeiper: I'll defend Piper vs. T as the worst match because it went on far longer than most bad matches. Nothing else to add really on this one.

King Kamala Classic: Was there really a need to bring T back again anyways? His star had fallen quite a bit from WrestleMania I to 2 and it wasn't like there were any resolved issues between the two I don't think

MillenniumMan831: Piper's post match interview was phenominal by the way. Aren't I the handsomest thing. T did work out well in WMI so it was natural to see if there was any milk left to draw out of him

Dandy I think they hoped for T to go into wrestling full time as a guy that had crossover appeal.Match of the night for me was the Main Event as a little kid, but that might change if I had a recent viewing of this show unedited.

King Kamala Classic: I like both of the tag team matches. Hard to pick a favorite between the two.

alkeiper: Bulldogs v Dream Team is my favorite match, the ending with the Bulldogs winning the titles puts it over the top

Dandy I don't remember thinking the flag match was anything better than horrible, so that would probably be my worst.

MillenniumMan831: Orndorff/Muraco was horrible given the starpower

King Kamala Classic: Savage/Steele is a rare crappy Savage match from the '80s so I'll pick that. George Welles-Jake Roberts was also a mighty lethargic squash. Man, I guess the whole NYC portion ties for worst match!

Dandy: What could Savage do in that situation, though? The whole premise with Steele was that he was as close to an ape as it got, and he didn't really understand wrestling.

King Kamala Classic: true

Alkeiper: I don't mind Savage/Steele. It was a bad match yes, but that feud has iconic status in wrestling lore

MillenniumMan831: I must also say . . . poor Velvet

alkeiper: and in its way, really established the Savage/Elizabeth dynamic

King Kamala Classic: yeah I never particularly cared for that match or feud but I was watching in retrospect.

 

alkeiper Piper/T HAS to be the worst match of the evening, it was one of those matches that exposes the business, badly

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Easily the worst.

WrestleMania III

alkeiper: Wrestlemania III. Whether it was 93000 or 78000, holy crap that's a big crowd. Considering the record attendance was somewhere around 43000 for Kerry Von Erich-Ric Flair, what WWE had done in the Silverdome and the year before at Exhibition Stadium in Toronto was truly impressive.. There is not much to say about the card that hasn't been said, but I'll defend Steamboat/Savage's status as a ***** classic.

Dandy: As a kid, the build-up to this show had me hook, line and sinker. I felt so betrayed that Andre turned his back on all us fans, and I couldn't see any chance of Hogan winning. There were a lot of good of things in this show, and a couple of bad things. However, the show as a whole was a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth. THIS was why Wrestlemania is what it is today.

Hunter’s Torn Quad: This WM more than any other gets looked back on with rose colored glasses. As a spectacle, it's the biggest one of 80s simply because of the huge crowd. However, apart from the quality of Steamboat/Savage and the spectacle of Hogan/Andre, this doen't have a whole lot going for it, other than the crowd. If you're looking for an example of a WM that's style over substance, this is it. It's a big show on the surface, but looking deeper, there wasn't really a whole lot to it. Then again, there didn't really need to be.

King Kamala Classic: Hmm...I agree and disagree with you there. There isn't a whole of greatness outside of Steamboat-Savage but I think the style almost makes up for the lack of substance with the rest of the show and with Savage/Steamboat and the main event (and I'd add Piper's "retirement" match to the list of spectacles), what else do you really need? The undercard isn't particularly memorable but nothing really overstays its welcome and as you said, the crowd helps a ton. The card is also really well paced. I would say it's far from the greatest WrestleMania but perhaps- the most important.

MillenniumMan831: WMIII is definitely the most eye-pleasing WM of all time. 12 Matches and none of them sucked. Sure only one classic but the card moved at a great clip. Everyone forgets but Danny Davis getting his ass kicked was a nice treat.. WMIII really made wrestling look sophisticated and in. A 5-star production that I would assume gave wrestling less of a hillbilly preception than in years past. Speaking of Hillbillies, someone had to mention Bundy nailing Beaver

King Kamala Classic: Match of the night for III is obvious..."The Birdman" Koko B. Ware Vs Butch Reed!

MillenniumMan831 I already referenced my favorite match

Alkeiper: Best is Savage/Steamboat of course. Worst on its own merits is obviously Hogan/Andre

King Kamala Classic: Hogan/Andre matches are pretty lousy as I've said on the board a couple of times

 

WrestleMania IV

alkeiper: Wrestlemania IV is all about the tournament. This show would have been a LOT better if they cut it down to an eight man field. This show really is a chore though. Savage/DiBiase is good stuff, but it takes nearly four hours to get there.

Hunter’s Torn Quad This was really bad. The matches weren't good, with only the tag title match and the main event being above average, and everything else sub-par or worse. The atmopshere was akin to that of a wake at times. Nobody seemed too interested in anything other than Hogan and it made a bad night worse. I'd say that, all things considered, this is easily one of the worst Wrestlemania's of the lot. Next

King Kamala Classic Yeah, I think I like this show a bit better than either of you two but that's primarily out of nostalgia (this was the first tape I "owned"). It's just very, very, very long and the crowd is very very dead. The matches involving Savage and DiBiase are mostly pretty good and the tag team match is also worthwhile. I'm also a sucker for battle royals and the one here is one of my favorites but yeah----not too many other highlight. Except of course the aforementioned Bob Uecker appearances. Andre choking him is the image I take away from this show for some reason.

MillenniumMan831: Bob Uecker had me begging for each match to hurry up and end so we could follow up on his conquest of Vanna. One of those nostalgia shows, but yikes that 1st round was no fun at all. Shave those 6 matches off, and this event probably gets looked at more fondly. Muraco/DiBiase is a bit underrated in my view. I remember the kid next to Trump halfass marking out at Demolition's win. Jesse getting a little choked up at Savage's title-winning celebration was a nice touch . . . unless that was just some saliva going down the wrong pipe

ConnMan520 (9:34:11 PM): Match of the night...Savage/DiBiase obviously. Worst match...Jake Roberts/Rick Rude. Man, that match was boring.

Alkeiper: and I agree with those match selections

Hunter’s Torn Quad As do I. Roberts/Rude was one long rest hold

MillenniumMan831 : A long rest hold and a whiffed kneelift

King Kamala Classic: Warrior/Hercules is pretty lousy too but I guess they had to stick Warrior on the card somehow.

MillenniumMan831: Muraco/Bravo was pretty pootsy too

alkeiper: We had Matilda attempting to hump Heenan instead of attacking him, but that seemed like a more suitable ending for the Brain anyway. Let me take this opportunity to segue to WM 5 by talking about the venue. The Trump Plaza really didn't seem suitable as a sporting venue in general, Wrestlemania or otherwise. It just looked like a gigantic prom hall, allowing Trump to buy the show or whatever occured was a mistake.

King Kamala Classic: I liked the look of Trump Plaza, the wrestlers climbing down the long steps but wow----those crowds sucked.

WrestleMania V

Alkeiper: WM 5 is all about Hogan/Savage, your enjoyment of this show will depend almost entirely on how you enjoy the Savage/Hogan/Elizabeth angle. Rockers/Twin Towers and Owen/Perfect are the only things I really enjoy from this show

Hunter’s Torn Quad I would agree with al, in that this WM is all about the main event. If you're into the angle, great. If not, you're in for a long night. As with the year before, the matches are generally sub-par and the atmosphere is terrible The only real highlights are the main event and the Rude/Warrior finish. Other than that, there isn't much this show has to offer. Next

King Kamala Classic: Yeah, I don't see why WrestleMania IV gets pegged as one of the worst and this one has a fairly decent reputation. V is nearly as long and nearly as crappy as IV. That being said, I do enjoy it a bit out of nostalgia. All of the matches al mentioned are a lot of fun.. Plus for some reason, the segment of Fuji running (and winning!) the WrestleMania V fun run (in his suit) in preparation for the 3 on 2 match always makes me laugh.

MillenniumMan831: Even though this WM is as long as IV, it doesn't drag quite as much. Probably since everyone wrestles once. Martel's heel turn was great even though he kind of bumbled through his promo a bit. Not all junk by any means but when you sit through 3.5 hours of wrestling w/ no wacky stipulations, you get burned out in a hurry. That said, the main event was stellar so that should keep V out of the garbage bin. Plus, I did mark out for Gorilla's disgust w/ Heenan bringing Lombardi out w/ him for his match. Chill out Gino, he was jobbing to Jim Powers two months ago.

King Kanmala Classic Best match...Savage/Hogan, Worst match...Andre/Jake easy

alkeiper What is everyone's opinion of Piper's Pit?

King Kamala Classic : it's a fun segment but it drags

MillenniumMan831 Downey did school Piper for the most part

Hunter’s Torn Quad: I remember watching it and wishing it would just end already

MillenniumMan831: I liked Downey's entrance tune. Don't blow no mo shmoke in mah face!

King Kamala ClassicRun DMC was also really extraneous and why the hell did Rockin' Robin sing The National Anthem?

MillenniumMan831 Cause Sherri wouldn't job to her? Nah, I dunno

alkeiper: yeah, Run DMC was a complete waste of time

King Kamala Classic: Just odd when you look at the list of anthem singers...Mean Gene, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Rockin' Robin. 3 out of 5 ain't bad. So...any final thoughts on the era of WrestleMania before we finish.

 

Final thoughts?

MillenniumMan831 : Quality notwithstanding whenever I pop in a tape of an old WM, it's likely to be one of the 1st 5 moreso than any other era

Hunter’s Torn Quad This era is one for the nostalgia buff only

Alkeiper A good start historically, remembered mostly through rose colored glasses. there are some hidden gems though

MillenniumMan831 I put my rose colored glasses on merrily

King Kamala Classic: I'm kind of the same. I wouldn't call any of these my favorites but thanks to my nostalgia, wouldn't call any of these the worst either. Actually IV is pretty bad! I can't defend that not being in The Bottom 5 or so. Other than that however, I find myself returning to these shows a lot even if wrestling-wise they don’t hold up to some of the more recent Manias.

 

 

Sorry the format is a bit hard to read. I'm a bit pressed for time as I'm going out of town this weekend but I hope you enjoy the content.

 

 

[Aero 0]

Having just finished watching all of these except the first one over the last two weeks or so, this was a fun read. My thoughts on the ones I watched:

 

WM 2: This was probably the first time I’ve watched it in probably a good 5+ years. That said, it wasn’t as bad as I was expecting. I thought it was more enjoyable than WM 1, anyway. Of all the celebrities, the best is easily guest-timekeeper “Where’s the beef?” old lady, but I was really disappointed that they didn’t have her say the catchphrase. No matter how much plodding action there tends to be in them, I always enjoy battle royals, so that match was fun to watch. The main event was better than I was expecting.

 

WM III: I agree that this WM, more so than any other, gets the rose-colored glasses treatment to the extreme. It’s still a fun show to watch, but the match quality is lacking outside of the obvious one, although I do really like the Bulldogs/Tito vs. Harts/Davis match. Bulldog’s tombstone on Davis is pretty crazy.

 

WM IV: It’s long and boring. Whereas I usually watch just about every WM in the months leading to each year’s WM, I do occasionally skip this one. An 8-man field would’ve worked much better, and I wish they actually had Steamboat advance for a rematch with Savage. Hogan’s pre-match interview with Mean Gene about Trump Towers (with Donald, his family, and all the Hulkamaniacs) falling into the fault line is my favorite Hogan promo ever. It’s just so ridiculous and over-the-top that it’s awesome. For what it’s worth, I like the look of Trump Plaza for WM, but yes, the crowd does suck at times. The same goes for V.

 

WM V: It’s easier to sit through than IV, but it’s still really boring for the most part. The main event and some undercard matches (basically all mentioned above) are decent, but that’s about it. I don’t mind the Piper’s Pit segment, and it has to be said: Brother Love’s Piper impression is spot-on.

 

 

 

They’re all good for nostalgia, but none of them would be in my top 5 WM list. WM III would be the only one that might even make the top 10, but then again, I only started watching wrestling in about 1991, so these shows don’t have as big of an impact or entertainment value on me as they would others. I can see why WM III has the reputation it does, though.

 

On a side note, I’m watching these on the DVD anthology sets, and I’ll just point out that no Demolition theme makes me sad. I realize it’s a very minor thing, but stupid stuff like that always annoys me. IIRC, I have edits to look forward to for Dusty, Boss Man, and Godwinns, among others probably.

[Guest]

My thoughts....

 

WM I: Well, I'll be watching this for the first time next month. I think I'll come back here and say what I think about it.

 

WM 2: Wretched. Piper/T is one of the more business exposing matches I've seen, so I'd agree with the general sentiment. The Bulldog/Dream Team match on this show isn't their best match. I don't plan on watching this Mania again for a while.

 

WM 3: Great spectacle, good card, nothing sucks. Davey's tombstone piledriver on Danny Davis is my favorite moment from the show. If this card wasn't paced correctly, I would've had problems with it. Whenever I watch WM 3, it feels much longer than it really is. Just imagine how I'd feel if it was paced poorly. Speaking of poorly paced cards....

 

WM 4: This one's a chore. I don't know why I like to watch it. The matchups were horrendous. Rude/Snake just about killed the entire show. There really isn't a whole lot that could've been done w/r/t match placement. Perhaps I would've stuck Warrior/Hercules before the main event. Stuck the tag match right after the first round matches, early enough that the crowd would've still been amped up (well, amped up as that crowd could get, which isn't too amped up). I don't know. This show is tough.

 

WM 5: Oh man, the Morton Downey segment drags. I don't know how anyone could like it. I love the Martel heel turn, and Rude winning the belt. This one's good for the era, but it's too long. Perhaps a six man tag would've been nice. Stick Bravo and Garvin onto the Bushwhacker match. Main event is obviously the highlight.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I'm starting my March to Mania countdown tomorrow (and now that it's up to 24 shows, I think I'll be cutting it really, really close if I even make it at all before Mania 25) and I have to say, there are a few blocks of shows that I usually FF my way through and don't look forward to - the 1-5 block (minus 3), the 11-13 block, and Mania 15-18 (minus 17, and I like parts of 18). 6-10 is one of my favourites though (my other being 19 and beyond - all of those shows are very good) so I'm looking forward to that roundtable.

 

Mania 1: It does what it accomplishes, but that doesn't make it something I really want to watch in 2009. I think the show is up on WWE 24/7 now (edit: Nope! Not until next week, so time to break out the VCR) along with an episode of All-American Wrestling that hyped the show. I think deep down this might be why I delayed my countdown until now when I know I should have started in February, but I think I'm going to skip the 24/7 version of the show; yes, my VHS tape won't even play on my HDTV ("No Signal" message) because of terrible tracking errors all of my Mania 1-13 tapes have, but you know what it has that I (assume) the Mania Anthology DVD version 24/7 will use? PRODUCTION CREDITS WITH "AXEL F"! Plus "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" and an instrumental version of "Easy Lover" to open the show. To be honest I think I'll watch the digitally cleaned up version on 24/7, then pop in my VHS for the "missing" stuff. On the plus side, while it may be a bit dull, it's the shortest Mania ever. And seriously, was Alfred Hayes "on the joy juice" during some of those segments? He seemed lost.

 

Mania 2: WWE 24/7 has done wonders for my appreciation of this show. Watching all the TNT episodes that hyped this up, getting some background on everything, it made me actually want to watch the show (the video segment on Raw a few weeks ago had the same effect). It has some good and some bad, but again, not a favourite.

 

Mania III: Quite the spectacle and a fun show to watch for all the reasons stated above. My favourite of the early editions.

 

Mania IV: I always get a kick out of how this show is labelled "too long" because it originally came on two tapes - it's about as long as Mania III and shorter than Mania V! That said, yes, it is long and fairly dull. I always thought it was too bad that Steamboat was in the doghouse for taking time off because, though I enjoyed Savage vs. Valentine (probably my 2nd favourite match on the show behind Savage/DiBiase), a face vs. face Savage vs. Steamboat match playing up on history where Savage gets the win and the two shake hands would have been good booking there.

 

V: A long show made passable with the powers of the fast-forward button, but I do enjoy Hogan/Savage.

 

Edit 2: Watching Mania 1 right now, totally forgot I'd be missing out on "Eye of the Tiger" if I watched this on 24/7.

[Kimaster1976 0]

Something that has always bothered me about WrestleMania IV is the Steamboat situation.

 

Obviously he was on his way out back to the NWA, and they were about to make Savage this huge babyface World Champion.

 

Well the one loose end in the Randy Savage story up to that point would have been Steamboat. Why not have Savage beat him clean in a rematch from III shake hands and end their rivalry forever as friends.

 

I am sure Steamboat would not have had a problem putting Savage over clean as he was heading out anyway. What makes Vince McMahon's decision not have the rematch is that within 1 year Steamboat would be the NWA World Champion, what better bragging rights for the fans than having WWF Champion Savage holding a recent victory or NWA Champion Steamboat?

[Diamonddust 0]

Something that has always bothered me about WrestleMania IV is the Steamboat situation.

 

Obviously he was on his way out back to the NWA, and they were about to make Savage this huge babyface World Champion.

 

Well the one loose end in the Randy Savage story up to that point would have been Steamboat. Why not have Savage beat him clean in a rematch from III shake hands and end their rivalry forever as friends.

 

I am sure Steamboat would not have had a problem putting Savage over clean as he was heading out anyway. What makes Vince McMahon's decision not have the rematch is that within 1 year Steamboat would be the NWA World Champion, what better bragging rights for the fans than having WWF Champion Savage holding a recent victory or NWA Champion Steamboat?

 

Steamboat himself thought as much (Returning the favor to Savage). He talks about it in his shoot interview.

[CanadianChris 0]

WM: History has clearly not been kind to this show. Production values are in the Dark Ages compared to today, and most of the matches are pretty meh. I mean, Santana, Steamboat and Bundy all wrestled in what were basically squash matches. That would never fly today. But, it accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish, and the main event is still pretty fun to watch.

 

WM2: Interesting idea, poor execution. I agree with Al that the Long Island portion was really bad. I've never seen the complete version, though, so it may be more watchable than the clipped Coliseum release.

 

WMIII: Still my favourite WM ever, and the best-looking of the early Manias. Everything was pretty much perfect from start to finish. Savage-Steamboat still holds up today as *****. Hogan-Andre is still an incredible spectacle, even if the match was poor by workrate standards (it was never supposed to be good with Andre in the shape he was in). I think this is where Gorilla and Jesse really hit their stride as an announcing team, too. Just a totally fun show.

 

WMIV: Sooooooo loooooong. I knew when I picked it up at the video store in 1988 and saw it was a double cassette that the show wasn't going to be fun to watch. It still isn't. Hogan-Andre had been done three times up to that point, and seeing it again just exposed how bad their match was -- there was none of the specialness that WM3 had, or even that The Main Event had. Savage-DiBiase was good, but they took far too long to tell the story, and by the time they got to the climax there was not enough time left for them to go out and have a REALLY good match.

 

WMV: The definition of a one-match show, but that match delivered and then some. You may have noticed that I'm a pretty huge Savage fan and that I was completely into this angle from start to finish, so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I have good memories of this show, just because of the main event. Not much else of note -- Warrior-Rude was pretty bad, Demos-Powers+Fuji was meh, Andre-Jake was horrible, Perfect-Owen was good but way too short. Count me among those who liked the overlong Piper's Pit. And I'm still baffled as to why they went back to Trump Plaza for a second straight year (I'm sure it was money, but it was such a non-descript venue that I'm disappointed it's held two Manias).

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Here's a question for everyone:

 

Worse National Anthem rendition - Mean Gene or Rockin' Robin?

 

"She better keep her day job, Gorilla!"

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Here's a ProTip for watching Mania V: You probably think you want to fast forward through The Bushwackers vs. The Rogeau's, but the commentary bits between Monsoon and Ventura are fairly amazing.

 

Gorilla on immigrants: "We already have all the tired and poor!"