It just dawned on me...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I'd like to break down your "Nash is NOT a name" theory:

 

1) Ok, I agree

2) Yeah, thanks for telling me something new...

3) So were ALOT of people, some ofther smark creamers as Jericho and Benoit. And mark faves such as Savage, Flair, Sting, and Hogan,

4) Alot of name talents (see: Flair, Ric) were on the Roster at the same time. Is he not a name for the same reason.

Oh, Lord;

 

3) Yeah, and do you see any of those guys helping TV ratings or PPV Buy Rates at all? No, none of them had any affect in the long run, and that proves the point I was trying to make regardless. The difference between Benoit and Nash is that Benoit can actually wrestle, so therefor they can build him into a big name. Nash doesn't have that upside to him, because frankly, he can't wrestle. Many people would be happy just hearing him talk, but his promos have been even less imspired than usuall lately, so I doubt it's helping. Smart or mark favorite, none of them are "big names" or else they would have kept ratings higher in WCW and would be helping ratings in the WWE now. duh.

4) Flair isn't a name past nostalgia value. Like I just mentioned, Flair didn't help ratings in the long run.

 

So no, you didn't break anything down. It still stands that Nash isn't a name. Neither are the other guys you mention, but unlike him, some of them could become a name with work. That's what counts.

[Guest Nezbyte]

And how do you KNOW Nash cant either? Fuck, some net marks are so bias.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Look at his track record.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Now that the Clique is together on-screen and there is no more Big Show, let the good times roll.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

And how do you KNOW Nash cant either? Fuck, some net marks are so bias.

1) He injurred himself after working three matches. Maybe it was bad luck, but I doubt it.

 

2) Before he was injurred, he nearly killed Rock on a number of occasions. When you lack the athletic ability to fall down, I think it's safe to say you can't wrestle.

 

Can you please explain to me how your blatant denile in the face of facts alludes to my bias, please?

[Guest M Nyland]

When you lack the athletic ability to fall down, I think it's safe to say you can't wrestle.

Maybe he didn't want to hurt his hair?

[Guest Choken One]

Actully, Show is still a member of the NWO. It was just tough love.

 

My take on Kevin Nash is this, In the mid-90's he gave a few solid performences (Slam '94, Rumble '95, Series '95, GoodFriends) granted he had his clunkers (Every other match) but he still gave effort.

 

Nash kept trying even in WCW until Hall left the first time and that's when he realized that He was Set for life.

 

Is Kevin Nash a name value superstar? Yes. Not at the level of Hogan, Hart, Austin, Flair, Rock, HHH but more known then Beniot, Regal, and Jericho by a large majority. Is he deserving of the spot he has?

 

Yes, Take a look at today's young future stars. Shawn Stasiak, Mark Jindrak, Randy Orton, Sean O' Haire all have the same look...6'4 short hair...Short tights...No personality whatsoever.

 

Kevin Nash has an different look then the young boys. He still looks like he can kick your ass...when the likes of Sean o Haire looks like the Gay bartender in your local nightspot.

[Guest M Nyland]

...when the likes of Sean o Haire looks like the Gay bartender in your local nightspot.

no....that's Billy Gunn...and that was in 1996...I think the last time I checked it was X-pac....because when they say he sucks............well fill in the blank...

[Guest bob_barron]

Anyone else notice that when HBK mentioned Nash's name he got a big pop?

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Nash has done more damage to North American wrestling than any other wrestler.

 

Yes, even more than Warrior.

[Guest Nezbyte]

Nash has done more damage to North American wrestling than any other wrestler.

 

Yes, even more than Warrior.

How?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Is Kevin Nash a name value superstar? Yes. Not at the level of Hogan, Hart, Austin, Flair, Rock, HHH but more known then Beniot, Regal, and Jericho by a large majority. Is he deserving of the spot he has?

 

Yes, Take a look at today's young future stars. Shawn Stasiak, Mark Jindrak, Randy Orton, Sean O' Haire all have the same look...6'4 short hair...Short tights...No personality whatsoever.

 

Kevin Nash has an different look then the young boys. He still looks like he can kick your ass...when the likes of Sean o Haire looks like the Gay bartender in your local nightspot.

No, because if he was a superstar WCW wouldn't have died. Any superstar draw should be able to carry a company or at least try, and Nash did neither. For all the talk of his charisma, when's the last time he cut a good promo? Aside from the nWo motivational speech, everything from him on the microphone has sucked.

 

Not to mention that he can't wrestle. I don't see how Stasiak, Jindrak, Ortan, and O'Haire are future stars, either. Stasiak is lucky to get sqashed these days, Ortan is curtain jerker from the get-go, Jindrak is in the developmentals and O'Haire is on heat. If you want to talk future stars at least mention someone who's actually being given a fair shake at stardome, like John Cena or Brock Lesnar.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Nash has done more damage to North American wrestling than any other wrestler.  

 

Yes, even more than Warrior.

How?

Lets see: Lowest drawing WWF champion of all time, and once he was done lossing all of Vince's money he gave him the finger and jumped ship.

 

After trying to kick the last pit of dirt on the WWF's grave, he helped create a political environment in WCW that caused it to become completely out of control and pulled politcal power plays that limited the push of rising stars like Jericho and allowed such debacles as the Fingerpoke of Doom to occur by conspiring with Hogan. Ultimately, he signed the death warrant by becoming head booker and putting the world title on himself, a move that killed Golberg's career and tanked the ratings to irreversable levles as he was nearly as bad a draw as WCW champion as he had been as WWF champion. Despite the company's woes, he did nothing to help salvage things and ultimately mailed it in while the company's future was being decided.

 

There.

[Guest Nezbyte]

Nash has done more damage to North American wrestling than any other wrestler.  

 

Yes, even more than Warrior.

How?

Lets see: Lowest drawing WWF champion of all time, and once he was done lossing all of Vince's money he gave him the finger and jumped ship.

 

After trying to kick the last pit of dirt on the WWF's grave, he helped create a political environment in WCW that caused it to become completely out of control and pulled politcal power plays that limited the push of rising stars like Jericho and allowed such debacles as the Fingerpoke of Doom to occur by conspiring with Hogan. Ultimately, he signed the death warrant by becoming head booker and putting the world title on himself, a move that killed Golberg's career and tanked the ratings to irreversable levles as he was nearly as bad a draw as WCW champion as he had been as WWF champion. Despite the company's woes, he did nothing to help salvage things and ultimately mailed it in while the company's future was being decided.

 

There.

How did that damage NA's wrestling? It killed wCw, yes, but it didnt do fuck all to the indys. Well, minus all the help it gave. Indys are where it's at, man, indys.

[Guest Choken One]

Why do you Think I didn't mention CENA and Brock? Because they have different looks and potential.

 

 

It wasn't Nash's fault. Completly. Ric Flair could not save WCW, Steve Austin coulden't save WCW at the point they were in at that time. It stems from the Revolving door of Management WCW had for 3 years. TNT/Time Warner lack of intrest in the company hurt it. Horrible booking.

 

It wasn't Nash all the time..WCW lost 4 of its young superstars and It's World Champions in one confusing week and what did the Head Booker want to do? Put the title on a guy with NO personality and skills and only had one move...A punch. WCW put about 10 green rookies and threw them together when there was no discinsion other then thier outfits.

 

Don't Blame Kevin Nash entirely for WCW's problems.

 

 

It wasn't completly Nash's fault that WWF lost money in 1995, but even if they gave Bret the title, Business would still be horrible because the aftermath of the Steroid trials still lingered.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

How did that damage NA's wrestling? It killed wCw, yes, but it didnt do fuck all to the indys. Well, minus all the help it gave. Indys are where it's at, man, indys.

I'm pretty sure he's only talking about major promotions there, bud. None of the indies ever took advantage enough to become major players, did they, so that's neither here nor there.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Why do you Think I didn't mention CENA and Brock? Because they have different looks and potential.

 

 

It wasn't Nash's fault. Completly. Ric Flair could not save WCW, Steve Austin coulden't save WCW at the point they were in at that time. It stems from the Revolving door of Management WCW had for 3 years. TNT/Time Warner lack of intrest in the company hurt it. Horrible booking.

 

It wasn't Nash all the time..WCW lost 4 of its young superstars and It's World Champions in one confusing week and what did the Head Booker want to do? Put the title on a guy with NO personality and skills and only had one move...A punch. WCW put about 10 green rookies and threw them together when there was no discinsion other then thier outfits.

 

Don't Blame Kevin Nash entirely for WCW's problems.

 

 

It wasn't completly Nash's fault that WWF lost money in 1995, but even if they gave Bret the title, Business would still be horrible because the aftermath of the Steroid trials still lingered.

You aren't making sense. First you listed a group of nothings as "today's future stars" and then when I name some that actually have a chance at becoming the stars of tomorrow, you say they have different looks and potential? If you want to make sense of this for me, go right on ahead.

 

Austin might have had an easier time saving WCW had he not been burried the second Hogan made his debut. And Flair has saved WCW more times than one can count, so don't even bark up that tree. Not to mention Bischoff was constantly trying to burry the guy and came pretty close to firing him at one point. Not to mention that Nash came up with the "Horsemen Parody" that mocked Anderson, Flair's friend, and basically killed any motivation Flair had to even bother with WCW.

 

Yeah, horrible booking. Like the Fingerpoke of Doom, and Nash getting the world title. I covered that already. Why do you think the Radicalz left to begin with? It was Sullivan who let them go, but all four of them have stated in interviews that they hated the politics of WCW, and Nash was the highest offender in creating that environment. By the time the title started being traded by Sid, Jarett, and Savage, Nash had already killed the ratings beyond repair, and continued to kill them with his consant push. And I don't blame him entirely for them, but he did more to hurt that company than any other wrestler that worked there, by far.

 

And the Bret/Backlund feud was actually starting to generate interest before Backlund was squashed by Nash and Bret was put in a feud with Jerry Lawler's dentist. I hate to play "what if", but Bret was a proven champion who could provide stability, so I highly doubt things would have turned out as bad had they given him the title. He certainly drew better in his world title runs than Nash has ever drawn for any world title run, and that's proof enough for me.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

In the RAW thread, I was expressing my feelings about how Booker T will most likely get buried by the NWO. Does anyone doubt that now that Triple H is in the NWO? Triple H went over three guys the last time he was on Smackdown, and I have trouble seeing him being given a new gimmick just so that he can put people over. He wouldn't put the Rock over during their feud and now we he's going to put Booker T over? I guess now that the Clique has the same interests, people will still give their two cents about how Triple H is holding people down, but Kevin Nash will still wriggle off the hook.

[Guest Nater]

Didnt the NWO/Goldberg era of WCW dominate in ratings over WWF? or am i mistaken here?

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

To tell you the truth, bringing up the fact that WCW was beating the WWF in ratings doesn't support any relevant point that can be made. Maybe I'm wrong, but you can look around and see that there's no WCW. The fact of the matter is, Goldberg's name value lies in the fact that he hasn't been in the WWF yet. I doubt that his presence will boost interest anywhere other than the WWF, and his impact there could be minimal as well. An argument could also be made that the NWO/Goldberg era was winning the ratings before the WWF had anyone with name value and the argument could also be made that the NWO/Goldberg era was beaten in the ratings by the WWF.

[Guest papacita]

The 96/97 nWo era beat out the New Generation WWF.

 

The nWo/Goldberg era got its ass handed to it by WWF Attitude.

[Guest benoitrules2000]

First of all, all i ever hear about nash from smarks on this board is how much he sucks so i was quite taken aback by the point of this thread.

And even more taken aback by the majority of people who seem to still like him.

I've been a nash mark since i was 11 and i make no excuses for the shitty ring work he's been doing, but he has brilliant charisma and that's why i wil always be a nash mark regardless of what he does.

 

I first marked for him in the wwf as diesel but when i turned on the tv one morning to watch some fed i'd never heard of called wcw(I'm aussie, we were starved of wrestling.)It happened to be the bash at the beach and everything i saw from nash then on will make me a mark for him forever.

I had no idea the guy could talk due to his silent but strong diesel gimmick.

 

Oh and...about nash tanking the wwf in 95, look who they had him feud with, sid and FREAKIN MABEL!!!

Nash was never one to be accused of being a brilliant wrestler but he could be carried to great matches(Micheals and hart)so the booking team with their generally shitty product and pushing pieces of shit like sid and FREAKIN MABEL to the moon sure as hell contributed their part to the disaster that was wwf 95.

 

sorry for the rant.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I know I'm late to this thread, but I love the "Nash booked himself into the main event circle while Goldust is earning his way into the fans' hearts after years of being a boring washup! Yay Goldust!" posts.

 

Do you think Goldust WOULDN'T book himself higher up if he had the power? I mean, take a look at who his Dad is...

 

Daddy booked himself over Ric Flair one night. And he thought it was so swell, he booked it AGAIN.

[Guest gwf0704]

It just seems to me that no matter what point is made on Nash, good or bad, the haters just wont listen. They hear what is said (figuratively speaking) but they dont listen. And to say Nash is the one who killed WCW alone because he was booker, well I think Kevin Nash/Disco Inferno and the rest had a hand too. Also to say WWE didnt have any big talent at the time I'm sure HBK and DX are happy to hear that......

[Guest Goodear]

IDo you think Goldust WOULDN'T book himself higher up if he had the power? I mean, take a look at who his Dad is...

 

Daddy booked himself over Ric Flair one night. And he thought it was so swell, he booked it AGAIN.

 

Dusty was really, REALLY over at the time. It isn't such a horrible idea to have him go over Flair and it is not like Flair didn't get the strap back in less than 3 months anyway. It added to Flair's stupid streak of belts, he probably loved it.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

It just seems to me that no matter what point is made on Nash, good or bad, the haters just wont listen. They hear what is said (figuratively speaking) but they dont listen.

 

I'm lending you my ears. Tell me what it is that people aren't listening to.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

What do you have to say now?

[Guest gwf0704]

What do you have to say now?

Me?? Well what I mean to say is that some people just hate Nash so much that they don't care what other peoples opinions are. They think they are right and that everyone else is wrong. One such opinion is when people say that Kevin Nash is not over, yet when his name is mentioned or he speaks the crowd reacts. But haters just see this as some weird side effect of the promo or match he is in. Another is stating that he cant wrestle. That depends on what you call wrestling. Is it catch as can moves? Is it submission holds? Reversals and armlocks? Or just punching and kicking and slamming? Hey, different styles is what makes wrestling interesting. I like seeing a good Benoit v Malenko match as well as any purist, but I also dont mind seeing drag out fights either. Just because Nash cant execute a spinning toe hold doesnt mean he is not a wresterl. The only true wrestlers are in the NCAA.

 

And sorry I did not answer sooner but I dont spend every day on the board as I have to work and attend to other things. Peace.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I wasn't neccesarily addressing you, but it's good to see someone stand up for the man that they believe in. Your points are well taken, but they are the wrong ones. I don't expect him to do moonsaults and other shit like that, but the guy has "headlined Wrestlemanias" but can't even take an over the top rope bump. There's a difference between blowing spots and being a brawler. I was going to tape RAW because I was expecting him to give me some blown spots or half assed moves to laugh at.

[Guest gwf0704]

Well my favorite wrestlters are really Rob Van Damm and Chris Benoit as I only like Nash for the charisma. But I get somewhat irritated by smarks who feel all wrestlers should be like Benoit and dont appreciate the fact that different wrestlers, either by body size or style, have to wrestle differently. I addressed it better on the Nash thread asking that all Nash discussion be in it. And I do agree with you sometimes but I tend to disagreee with you mostly, but hey, thats life....