The Return of Hal Jordon as Green Lantern

[Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior]

Thanks Stevie

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Mr. Z, has Batman forgiven Jordan yet? And if your response is " buy it yourself" can you please tell me what issue it is? Thanks for responding, Stevie

I'm not sure, they didn't guage individual reactions.

 

My guess? He may not HATE him any longer... but he'll never, ever, trust him again.

[Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior]

I know he'll never trust him. Did Bats ever fully trust Jean-Paul when he became the "Agent of the Bat" after knightsend?

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Sorry to chime in on this so late, but having recently heard about this myself, I just have to say "fuck Hal Jordan". I don't want to hear the "oh, you just grew up with Kyle as GL" excuse because Jordan(as well as Stewart and Gardner) was THE GL when I was growing up and I avoided the title like the plague because Jordan was so damned BORING. Hell, Hal going nuts and the introduction of Kyle sucked me into buying GL for the first time in like 5 years and I find Kyle to infinitely more interesting than Hal ever was. While I haven't picked up an issue in a long time(monatary reasons, unfortunately), needless to say, if I was still reading the book regularly, I'd drop it(although it doesn't mean much anyway since they're restarting the title and won't let it at least make 200 issues).

 

DC caving into those no-life fanboys from H.E.A.T. makes me physically ill. I just hope that they'll at least give Kyle his own title instead of killing him off because he's a damn good character who shouldn't be wasted in a "back-up" role for a useless, old fart who needed to be offed anyway.

[Guest JMA]

I've got nothing against Kyle, but the whole "Emerald Twilight" story was such BS. Can you imagine the outrage if the Powers That Be had made Superman or Batman turn evil and then die? There would be massive boycotts from the fan community. But Hal was a "disposable hero" in that the PTB felt they could replace him with a younger, "hipper" version. Kyle's not a bad character by ANY stretch of the imagination, but ET will always taint his legacy as GL. If he was brought in in a way that didn't defame Hal's character, he might've been more accepted by the fan community.

 

I also disagree with the statement that all HEAT members are "no-life fanboys." It's a gross generalization. I'm not a member of HEAT, but I do know of some people that are. I never found Hal to be "boring," either. He was too often portrayed as "old" by DC (remember the grey hair?). The good thing is that those grey marks are gone with the new Hal. Maybe now he can be portrayed in a way fitting his character.

 

And I didn't really grow up with Hal, either. I'm nineteen years old and didn't get into Green Lantern until later on. I do find it kind of odd that many of the people who put down those who complained about Hal dying are now the ones complaining themselves. But they shouldn't be. I'm almost positive that Kyle will be given a fitting exit from the book.

 

They can't fuck up his legacy any worse than they did Hal's.

 

Like it or not...he's back

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

I've got nothing against Kyle, but the whole "Emerald Twilight" story was such BS.

Exactly how was it BS? Coast City got oblitherated and Hal was supposed to feel all happy about it? About the only thing I had a problem with was that they went through it too fast and should have just had Hal go slowly insane and then finally snap.

 

Can you imagine the outrage if the Powers That Be had made Superman or Batman turn evil and then die? There would be massive boycotts from the fan community.

Superman and Batman won't be as close to being completely dropped as a DC title like GL was in the 90's before Kyle took over.

 

Maybe now he can be portrayed in a way fitting his character.

I don't see how considering that no one will trust him ever again and if he reverts back to 60-70-80's-era Hal, I could see the book failing again.

 

I do find it kind of odd that many of the people who put down those who complained about Hal dying are now the ones complaining themselves.

I'm complaining about DC copping out and bowing down like lil bitches. They invested 10 years in Kyle and didn't even give him a decent creative team, but they go and get one of the better ones to revive a character that almost killed the book originally before Rayner was brought in. And what's even funnier is that if the book fails again with Useless Hal, no one will say anything outside of those who said bringing him back was a dumb move to begin with.

 

They can't fuck up his legacy any worse than they did Hal's.

Well, they won't even let him get to 200 issues, so I doubt they give a damn about Rayner's legacy.

[Sass 0]

Winnick killed off whatever hope Rayner had at remaining as GL. Rayner never had a chance since day one. Everyone knew that one day DC would go back and resurrect Hal, it was just all a matter of when the sales for GL would plummet so badly that Rayner would be called a "sales poison" and be replaced.

 

Welcome back Mr.Jordan, hopefully your stay will be better this time around.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I've got nothing against Kyle, but the whole "Emerald Twilight" story was such BS.

Exactly how was it BS? Coast City got oblitherated and Hal was supposed to feel all happy about it? About the only thing I had a problem with was that they went through it too fast and should have just had Hal go slowly insane and then finally snap.

 

It was BS because a hero for decades was basically turned into an evil, murdering, bastard in three issues.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Ummm... I already addressed that, Zsasz. I'm asking for another reason.

[Guest JMA]

Exactly how was it BS? Coast City got oblitherated and Hal was supposed to feel all happy about it? About the only thing I had a problem with was that they went through it too fast and should have just had Hal go slowly insane and then finally snap.

The ONLY reason Coast City was destroyed was to put over the lame-ass Cyborg Superman. I find it to be absolutely pathetic that Hal Jordan's journey into darkness was instigated by a fucking Reed Richards rip-off (check his backstory if you don't know what I'm referring to). To get slightly off-topic for a moment, I HATED the Death/Return of Superman storyline. The only good things to come out of it were Steel and Superboy/Kon-El. Doomsday and the Cyborg are probably my least favorite villains in the current DCU.

 

But back to Hal. Even if Coast City was destroyed I doubt Hal would've gone crazy. Think about it, this is a man who without a doubt had the strongest will on Earth (and one of the strongest in the universe). Next, take into account that a number of Hal's loved ones weren't there when the city was destroyed. Regardless, Hal slaughtering his friends and allies with seemingly no remorse was very out of character. I could ALMOST see him taking out the Guardians, but even that is extremely unlikely.

 

Hal is probably the most recognizable character to ever be called "Green Lantern." All the things that are associated in the mainstream about the character were associated with the Hal era (test pilot, the Corps, fearless, green power battery, weakness to yellow, enemy was Sinestro, ect). Hal wasn't driven insane because it was a good story idea. He was driven insane so that DC could bring in a younger, "hipper" Green Lantern to replace him AND to have a huge crossover.

 

People calling Hal "boring" doesn't click with me. Many of these people also think Superman is boring because he's "too powerful." They fail to realize that he's SUPPOSED to be powerful. Hal is not a character who is known for clever catch-phrases or for having high school-esque problems. He's traditionally been straight-laced and no-nonsense. This doesn't mean he didn't have a sense of humor (because his did) but he never really took it to his job as GL. But, particularly post-Crisis, he did take a lot of chances that other GLs wouldn't have. Does this make the other GLs even more "boring" than Hal?

 

I honestly can't see why someone would read GL if they don't like Hal. Even if the reader likes Kyle more (which many do) they should still realize that almost all the concepts in GL came from Hal Jordan's run. To disrespect his character is to disrespect the whole concept.

 

Should Kyle have reached the 200th issue? I wouldn't have had a problem with that, but it's not going to happen. And I still don't believe Kyle will be taken out in a way that disrespects his character (though I may be wrong). I don't think DC would be dumb enough to alienate another group of GL fans. I can guarantee, though, that Kyle's send-off won't be as bad as Hal's. That would be next to impossible.

 

That's about all I have to say about the subject.

[Steviekick 0]

I was thinking about this earlier, and this is really a cop out by DC. After the changeover, GL will fall back to its usual mediocrity. That pisses me off; I'm a fan of the concept and pretty much any character who has wielded the ring.

 

If DC really cared about GL, they would have bothered to get A-list talent involved with the title years ago. Imagine how kick ass a Mark Waid/Jim Lee GL would have been.

[Guest duck420]

at least its not guy gardner

[Steviekick 0]

I love the whole Guy Gardner character, but he should NEVER be the main focus of a title. Great team member or supporting character.

[Guest netslob]

what bothers me is when they bring back a dead character. i HATE that. if a character is dead, HE/SHE SHOULD STAY DEAD. it defeats the whole purpose of killing them in the first place. with Hal, they should've just let him lie after he re-ignited the sun, not brought him back as the Spectre, just let him die and be done with it. end of story, that's all she wrote, let Kyle live up to the legacy. but if DC wants to pander to one certain group, well, they can knock themselves out. i haven't bought a GL books in years, anyhow.

[Guest JMA]

what bothers me is when they bring back a dead character.  i HATE that.  if a character is dead, HE/SHE SHOULD STAY DEAD.  it defeats the whole purpose of killing them in the first place.  with Hal, they should've just let him lie after he re-ignited the sun, not brought him back as the Spectre, just let him die and be done with it.  end of story, that's all she wrote, let Kyle live up to the legacy.  but if DC wants to pander to one certain group, well, they can knock themselves out.  i haven't bought a GL books in years, anyhow.

The problem is, there are well-written, meaningful deaths, and then there are the others. Some deaths which were handled well would be The Flash (Barry Allen), Supergirl (Kara Zor-El), and the Pre-Crisis Superman (only an imaginary story). They all died heroes. Hal didn't die a hero. He died an anti-hero trying to find redemption. Not a very fitting end for "The Greatest Green Lantern Of All." Hal was taken down as far as any hero could go. They made him a mass-murderer for crying out loud!

 

Wally West (the current Flash) never really received much backlash when Barry died. Why? Because he was Barry's sidekick as Kid Flash and Barry died a true hero. If the Powers That Be HAD to kill Hal they could've done it in a much better way.

[Guest netslob]

not the point. he's dead. that means "No take-backs". death is final. the end. no going back.

[Guest JMA]

not the point. he's dead. that means "No take-backs". death is final. the end. no going back.

Oh, but it is the point. I'm of the belief that if a story is bad, to hell with it. And that's what ET was -- a bad story. It's just too bad that Kyle never got a proper origin to cement his status as GL. Did they expect Hal fans to not take their anger out on the character?

[Steviekick 0]

I thought parts of ET were cool, but they really didn't justify Hal going nuts and killing everyone over the course of three issues. That should have taken at least six.

 

I thought how Kyle wound up with the ring was actually cool. He just wound up with an incredibly random responsibility.

[SuperJerk 0]

Hal's heel turn was more because the Guardians wouldn't let him use his power to resurrect the city, than because it was destroyed.

 

"Emerald Twighlight" was an excellent story.

 

Kyle Rayner was perfectly fine as GL until they had him "loose faith in humanity" (after Terry was attacked) and exile himself to outer space. That's when I quit reading.

[Steviekick 0]

The writing in GL turned to shit once Kyle went to space.

[Guest JMA]

Hal's heel turn was more because the Guardians wouldn't let him use his power to resurrect the city, than because it was destroyed.

 

"Emerald Twighlight" was an excellent story.

Other people in the DCU have lost their home PLANETS and haven't gone insane. Having Hal go crazy because of this was juvenile. Killing innocents to bring back the lives of innocents is very flawed reasoning. "Emerald Twillight," much like the "Death Of Superman," was a gimmick.

 

But none of this really matters anymore. Hal is coming back.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Yeah, and the book will fail again once DC stops bringing in the big time creative teams used to hype his return.

 

I wonder what'll happen when the bottom drops out like it did in the mid-90's... will they kill Hal off again or just let the title drown on it's own?

[Steviekick 0]

Once the series bombs with Hal, they'll just kill off the title for a few ears. They can't re-kill Hal, as that would admit to total failure.

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, and the book will fail again once DC stops bringing in the big time creative teams used to hype his return.

And if you're wrong? Let's see what happens before making those kind of predictions.

I wonder what'll happen when the bottom drops out like it did in the mid-90's... will they kill Hal off again or just let the title drown on it's own?

You're assuming that the book will fail. Many unpopular titles are kept around, despite the wishes of the fans. It's a lot like wrestling promoters constantly pushing people, hoping that they'll get over. The good news is that Hal has a very large fanbase, so I don't see the book failing. There's also the fact that he's been gone for so long. Some readers will read just for that fact.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Yeah, he had that very same fanbase in 90's and it almost got the book cancelled. If you're going to use the "sit back and watch" approach and the "he STILL has a huge fanbase" approach despite the fact all those things were said back when DC almost decided to scrap the series, then I have every right to say that they'll end up doing the same thing that they did back then which is FAIL.

 

Also, since you've tied wrestling into this, I'll lay out a comparison that seems pretty dead-on: Hal Jordan is like Hulk Hogan. Fine in small doses(like as Spectre), but he's useless in the long run if you give him the title because the act is TIRED.

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, he had that very same fanbase in 90's and it almost got the book cancelled. If you're going to use the "sit back and watch" approach and the "he STILL has a huge fanbase" approach despite the fact all those things were said back when DC almost decided to scrap the series, then I have every right to say that they'll end up doing the same thing that they did back then which is FAIL.

The thing is, Kyle's GL book is being cancelled as well. That puts him in the same boat as Hal, doesn't it? Personally, I've never disliked Kyle. I just disliked what they did to Hal to bring him in. Things could've been handled a whole lot better than they were. As it is, Kyle's run was always linked to ET, which turned off the more hardcore fans. If Hal had had a Barry Allen-type death, well, things might've been different. But to be fair to Kyle, he has been written poorly in the past (and, indeed, in the present). Most writers seem to portray him as a cool teenager or Hal Lite. It also didn't help when Winnick put so much focus on Terry Berg. I like Terry in a Jimmy Olsen kind of way, but I don't think fans want to read an arc about him.

 

If I believed in Conspiracy Theories, I would think that ET and Hal dying were part of a grand schme to make readers pine for him and then cash in upon his return. But I don't, so that doesn't really matter. Incidently, Kyle fans have started their own version of HEAT. It's called KEEP (Kyle Earth's Emerald Protector). Hopefully, DC has learned their lesson and won't ruin Kyle's legacy like they did Hal's. I wouldn't wish that on any fan. If Hal DOES fail (a big "if", IMO) I think they would bring John back to the title before Kyle.

 

Also, since you've tied wrestling into this, I'll lay out a comparison that seems pretty dead-on: Hal Jordan is like Hulk Hogan. Fine in small doses(like as Spectre), but he's useless in the long run if you give him the title because the act is TIRED.

Does this mean Kyle is Randy Orton? I kid, I kid. In any case, I was using wrestling to make a point about unpopular books not being cancelled. And there are quite a few of them.

[Guest SpiderFan]

Personally, I wouldn't mind 2 GL books. Have one with Hal, and one with Kyle. One could focus more on the space and universe exploration part of GL, and one could focus on Earth related stories.

 

If DC can pump out almost 10 Bat books a month, they can easily put out two GL titles.

[Guest SP-1]

DC's apparently been saying that they want to make GL into the 3rd big franchise (behind Supes and Bats). Bringing Hal back, while still maintaining Kyle, John, and the Corps could do just that if DC plays their cards right. Green Lantern is so much bigger than your normal superhero concept. If the Corps were re-formed, if Hal was recognized as old school and a leader for this New Corps . . . things could be interesting.

 

I'm admittedly more of a Kyle fan than a Hal fan. BUT, I recognize Hal's very vocal fanbase, and the romantic aspect of "The Man" returning to the primary role, being restored from his fall from grace (as it were) is something that greatly interests me. I hope DC can pull off something similar.

[Steviekick 0]

To me, the whole thing wreaks of suckiness. I'm going to stop bitching until I find out exactly what they are planning on doing.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Yeah, he had that very same fanbase in 90's and it almost got the book cancelled. If you're going to use the "sit back and watch" approach and the "he STILL has a huge fanbase" approach despite the fact all those things were said back when DC almost decided to scrap the series, then I have every right to say that they'll end up doing the same thing that they did back then which is FAIL.

The thing is, Kyle's GL book is being cancelled as well. That puts him in the same boat as Hal, doesn't it?

There's a difference, though: Kyle's book is being cancelled for Hal's return(which *is* due to low sales, but still a copout).

 

Incidently, Kyle fans have started their own version of HEAT. It's called KEEP (Kyle Earth's Emerald Protector). Hopefully, DC has learned their lesson and won't ruin Kyle's legacy like they did Hal's. I wouldn't wish that on any fan.

I disagree with forming groups over comic characters being written/killed off and this would be no exception despite my wanting Kyle to remain THE Green Lantern. As for DC not fucking up Rayner's legacy, I doubt they give a damn because if they did, we wouldn't even be discussing this to begin with.