RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Ever since going to OSWI 4, I've been waiting for another Super Card of Single, No Gi, Bouts to come along; as that last OSWI was freakin awesome to watch and hooked me on the So-On grap scene. Tournaments are fun for a while, but they are exhausting to watch and I have yet to get through a full day of em, whereas these Super Cards feature just one match going on and you actually know who is fighting who rather than half-a-dozen matches going on at once, in different weights and experience divisions and whatnot and in different rounds and all the confusion that tournaments bring. In other words, it's a lot more fun. If you live in the GTA, you gotta check it out. Oh yeah, and there's a lil something called BOCEK VS HOLANDA. How often do you get to see two black belts compete in Canada? Last year Holanda beat Rob "Spider" Di Cenzo, a Nova Uniao guy like Bocek, by Kimura after being dominated for the majority of the match. Can Bocek avenge Nova Unioas loss, or will Holanda squeak out another win? So, so-far, the card is shaping up as so... "The Canadian Submission Expo", (via The UG.) Saturday, September 29, 2007. Martingrove Collegiate 50 Winterton Drive. Toronto, Ontario. Doors Open 6 PM This event will take place after the Bravado Open BJJ Tournament simular to last year. a film crew will be in to tape the show and submit to the fightnetwork. Any Martial Arts clubs or supply stores wanting to advertise during the taping can contact me by the email above. the card to Date: Main Event : Mark Bocek (Team Bocek/Nova Uniao) VS Fabio Holanda ( BTT Canada) No-gi. Donald Park (RGDA/OHIO,USA) VS Patricio Canales (BTT Canada) GI Marco Costa (Franco/Behring) VS J.W. Wright(RGDA/St.Louis,MO) No-gi Frank Marques (Team Bocek/Kombat Arts) VS Wade Shanley (Ronin MMA/BTT Canada) Anthony Romita (RGDA Canada) VS Matt Page (Therien JJ) The Blue Absolute Final and the Pur/Brn/Blk Absolute Finals will also be on the card.10 to 12 matches in all,waiting until after UFC 74 and the Mundials to name the other matches in mind. More info to come................... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Rudo and I will most definitely be in the house for this one and seeing as how starvenger is one of the only other TSM'ers in the area who could make the trip the onus is on him to show up. We're counting on ya, star. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Holanda is gonna get raped. Alot of the belts for Canadian grappling are handed out too easily and are undeserving, so I can't really put any stock in the absolute belt divisions. A teammate who was a blue belt (admittedly he should be higher, just hasn't done gi in awhile) competed in a gi competition and raped a three striped-brown belt. That's fucking embarrassing. To make things worse, later that day he schooled him in no gi as well. Behring, Schilling and Holanda are the worst at this belt-giving. I'm amazed that people are fans of local submission grappling. That boggles my mind. Do you guys want me to come by and drop off an autographed picture of myself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Can't guarantee anything, as the kid countdown would be at T-minus 14 days, so pretty much anything can happen from around mid-September until the expected date (Oct 12, if you're wondering). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Pffff. MMA is likely legal where you live. Don't bitch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Still 100% more shows then I get in Ontario. Doesn't KOTC do Calgary shows? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Can't guarantee anything, as the kid countdown would be at T-minus 14 days, so pretty much anything can happen from around mid-September until the expected date (Oct 12, if you're wondering). Bring wifey. Tell her she'll see a bunch of hot young dudes with their shirts off rolling around. And seriously, what could make an already-awesome show more awesome then a live birth? Answer: Nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 Holanda is gonna get raped. Alot of the belts for Canadian grappling are handed out too easily and are undeserving, so I can't really put any stock in the absolute belt divisions. A teammate who was a blue belt (admittedly he should be higher, just hasn't done gi in awhile) competed in a gi competition and raped a three striped-brown belt. That's fucking embarrassing. To make things worse, later that day he schooled him in no gi as well. Behring, Schilling and Holanda are the worst at this belt-giving. I'm amazed that people are fans of local submission grappling. That boggles my mind. Do you guys want me to come by and drop off an autographed picture of myself? Only if you promise to cry after I tear it up and piss on the pieces! Bocek has made similar comments in regards to giving out belts and seems to be extra strict as a result. A lot of the time it's just doing it for the money, where if a guy doesn't get a belt he doesn't feel like he's made any progress and will stop paying for lessons; thinking it is a waste of time. Events like these help establish, at least for me, who the ones to watch are, and as an extension, which clubs are producing the best talent and are repping the state of the art in canadian grappling. And hey, this ain't Soccer or anything, so I don't think it's unrealistic to think that in less than a decade we'll be seeing Canada being a major player on the international grappling circuit. Brazil has had 80 years to develop its scene, America has their wrestling program and attracted BJJ a bit earlier than us, and in Japan it's more ingrained into their culture whereas Canada just has hockey fights. But over the past decade it's been getting ready to be placed on the burner. It's a good time to be a fan because there's like this perfect storm brewing on the horizon where the right pieces are coming together and it's just a matter of time before it hits land. As much as getting a great coach is beneficial to the development of the scene, just as important are having a lot of great sparring and training partners to help push you to develop and I think right now we're starting to see a lot of that in gyms across the region. I'm seeing guys that are white belts and are doing some insane stuff where I'm like "dude, you are not a fucking white belt". And with no-gi and MMA, it's like this whole new thing where the book is being written as we speak, so there's still a chance for catch-up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 I agree with a lot of that. I can tell that a lot of gyms are pretty much in the development stages and some guys are becoming stars while others are well on their way. The best guys are mostly at the lower weights though, I think that's normal however. Everywhere I go it's rare for the bigger guys to use anything more than the basics and their size and strength advantages. I think this is a result of there simply not being as many big people in Canada as there are in the US. Other than a few exceptions I don't think Canadians will dominate MMA or Sub Grappling above the MW division. There just isn't a talent pool for it. Some of the guys I train with have killed the NAGA's and Arnold's so yeah, matter of time. If you guys wanna look smart in front of everyone else you know, mention Misha Cirkunov before he becomes a star. It's only a matter of time with that guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 If you guys wanna look smart in front of everyone else you know, mention Misha Cirkunov before he becomes a star. It's only a matter of time with that guy. Do you even have to throw in the "if"? Can I just say "Dude, you gotta see this guy named Cirk. The dude is a monster on the mat. Unreal skills. With that dude, there is no guard. Only passing when on top, and subs and sweeps from the bottom. Fucker once choked a dude out with the dudes own shin - we called it the blow-go-plata cause the dude was a step away from sucking his own cock." The thing is, in regards to heavyweights, most guys who are between 6'0 and, say, 6'3, who "should" walk around over 200 lbs, if they are in lean, physical shape can easily drop 20 lbs lower and maintain a ton of strength and size. So any of the guys who are in that range and are over 200lbs, odds are they aren't in that same class of conditioning. Having said that, some of the time all you need are the basics in offense if you are big and strong enough to handle your opponents and avoid their subs. In no-gi, it's even more beneficial to be big because you can slip out of sub attempts easier because they don't have the gi to hold on to. But in the gym, if all you are facing are guys who are 30 pounds lighter than you, you aren't going to develop at a suitable rate of speed. To a point you will, but it won't be enough if you are in the heavyweight division taking on a big brazilian dude who is used to facing other big brazilian dudes. You're gonna get tooled because you just aren't used to dealing with someone being able to handle what would normally be your superior power. Or you go against Marcelo Garcia and he climbs your back like a monkey and castigates you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 He tapped Forrest like three or four times when they rolled, and Randy Couture couldn't take him down from the clinch, but when he came close Misha took his back. Most importantly he once tapped me. ME! At that point was when I realized he was the goods. That's the thing with heavyweights, that's why training partners after a certain point are on the same level of importance as coaches. It's why Andrei Arlovski lost to Sylvia twice, because Tim had guys like Rothwell, Whitehead, and a bunch of other big cornhuskers while AA had Stephan Bonnar. It should be pointed out though that if you're lean you can't cut 20 lbs like that. Most of the weight cutting is done weeks out, through diet. If you're already really lean, than I don't know how you can cut that much that quick without severe side effects. Guys like Georges walk into the sauna only needing to shed like 5-10 lbs. To use Misha as an example, he competes at 205. He walks around at about 208. He simply doesn't have much weight to cut at all, he's extremely lean. He also said he's never clinched up with someone stronger than him at his weight, so going as low as possible would probably be for worse rather than better. A lot of the big guys try to compensate by trying to be slick as opposed to powering through someone, but at a point even this can be a hinderance to your development because you shouldn't perform despite your size/strength, your skill should complement it. A lot of guys have this mindset that they just want to win at any costs. The big guys learn enough to get to that point for the most part, they just rely on physical attributes. That's why the lighter weights have the most skill, because in the gym they're forced to find ways to beat these other bigger dudes, and they have to compensate for their lack of size. With all that being said however, you have some big guys who aren't so stubborn. These are the guys that go the furthest obviously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2007 When I say "should" be 200 lbs. I mean in regards to conventional weight/bmi standards. I'm talking about guys who are over six feet and walk around at a buck eighty, rather than making a severe cut down. We could talk all day why heavyweights aren't as skilled as guys a hundred pounds lighter, from demographics to physiology, but I think eventually the division will catch up with the rest, and when that happens... oh boy. One of the big reasons I find this stuff so interesting, MMA and BJJ specifically, is that it very much is an evolutionary system that is progressing so fast and the reasons for it are just as interesting. BJJ/MMA very much is something that lives and dies in competition, whereas a lot of TMA are so coddling that it limits growth and you don't get to truly see what specific thing works and doesn't (and what is seen as something that "works" may not actually work at all in a legit fight). Submission grappling in particular has an advantage in allowing it's practitioners to practice and spar at a high percentage of effort and aggression, whereas striking arts have to worry about protecting the opponent/partner a lot more. And that's why I love the fact that there are so many tournaments and shit going on now, it seems there are at least a half-dozen big time competitions in the GTA alone in a year, and clubs are forming identities and reps which I think is a positive, so when these meets happen the competitive spirit is all the more intense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2007 BMI is a joke but I won't argue with you on that. I think since Boxing hasn't had heavyweights catch up in terms of skill, I don't see why it should in MMA, especially when certain skills in grappling tend to flourish more at lighter weights. Even in BJJ, the difference between a guy like Jacare and a guy who is a middleweight in MMA is much greater than the skill between Roger Gracie and another heavyweight. It's simply a matter of physics, big guys have trouble pulling off certain "finesse" moves as effectively as smaller guys. Can they do a flying armbar? I guess, but it's a lot less common for a reason. BJJ as an art is constantly evolving since it's only been open to the general public for so long. Guys are trying and coming up with new shit everyday. Whether any of that fancy guard shit works in mma when you're getting pounded in the fact is a different story though. See Trigg vs. Charuto as an example of why bending your knees towards your face while on the bottom may be frustrating in grappling but in MMA it's a godsend. The only thing I don't like about the Canadian grappling and MMA scene in general is how gay a lot of the people are. Not the people involved, but go to the TUF canada forums and you will see a bunch of cheerleading. I don't know, maybe I'm just a cynic, but it comes across as really facetious and fair-weathered. And gay. Why haven't you decided to start training Rudo? Even if just to compete in a bunch of grappling tourneys? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2007 I think a reason why the lighter classes are more skilled is simple demographics where more of the population is at that height and weight, which means a bigger talent pool to take from. I'm not going to hang my hat on this point, but I think it is food for thought. But over time that can somewhat even out to where there will be enough big guys grappling to help push each other to develop. To find new moves and techniques, new approaches, and new training methods that will allow fighters to use their size to their full potential. It's natural selection, and grappling IMO is more varied than boxing in that it's possible for greater changes in styles where a dominant heavyweight style will emerge, weed out others, and spread. Maybe I don't understand the nuances of boxing enough, but I don't see that sort of flexibility in style. Comparing boxing to grappling doesn't fly, for me. I just think boxing is at a point to where you can't really change up the style any more and it's more a matter of conditioning and strategy than anything. I think there is a greater degree of flexibility in grappling. The learning curve is greater for heavyweights because they can get by on natural strengths and don't necessitate invention. But eventually for grappling, and even MMA, that is going to dissipate because, as we discussed, inevitably there are going to be big guys who go beyond that and combine skill and size which will prompt other big guys to adapt and adopt. I don't think Big Man Jiu Jitsu has been fully explored, especially without a Gi. The Gi is a great equalizer when it comes to a lil guy fighting a big guy, and with No Gi the grips get taken away. These aren't really fully formed thoughts, but I think the idea is solid enough. Where's Lei Tong to bitch smack reality back into me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 Can't guarantee anything, as the kid countdown would be at T-minus 14 days, so pretty much anything can happen from around mid-September until the expected date (Oct 12, if you're wondering). Bring wifey. Tell her she'll see a bunch of hot young dudes with their shirts off rolling around. And seriously, what could make an already-awesome show more awesome then a live birth? Answer: Nothing. Yeah, but that would take away from the grappling. Plus, she's not into MMA. I'm pretty sure she'd enjoy roller derby, but that's neither here nor there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 Your pregnant wife is so gay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 Your pregnant wife is so gay. If she was, I'd be bragging about threesomes in the LSD forums. No, she likes all the high octane violent stuff, provided it isn't two guys in tights/boardshorts rolling around on the mat... hmmm, maybe I should ease her in with some K-1... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lei Tong 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 Where's Lei Tong to bitch smack reality back into me? Holding his achy body after his second night back in the jitz scene. *prepares an Epsom salt bath* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 I have no idea what that is but it sounds Azn. You some otaku or something? Misha was supposed to compete on this card but he has friends fighting on the same day somewhere else so he's not going. His scheduled opponent? Patrick Cote. Talk about a slaughter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lei Tong 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 Cote once subbed MacDonald. In some Highlander fahsion, that must mean something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2007 Wouldn't that have passed off to Travis Lutter after Lutter tapped Cote out? Which, of course, means that Anderson Silva is one with all living things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Well Bocek vs. Holanda is off. Any inside info, YPOV? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2007 After his loss to Edgar, Bocek was quite literally MIA, no one could find anything out about him. He didn't show up at Sam Zakula's place or anything even though Sam helped train him for it. I can only think that his confidence is still shaken and that he's focusing on his MMA if he still hasn't really done a whole lot. Holanda is probably focusing on his MMA career too, though he's got bigger issues than just his skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 24, 2007 • The submission grappling superfight between Mark Bocek and Fabio Holanda scheduled for next Saturday night at the Submission Expo at Martingrove Collegiate has been cancelled due to Holanda’s inability to make the 155-pound weight, according to Bocek’s management. Bocek and Holanda are widely considered Canada’s best Brazilian jiu-jitsu competitors. No other date has been discussed for a make-up bout. --tfn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted September 24, 2007 It's a week out and he's already given up on making the weight? I guarantee he never had the intention of competing in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 24, 2007 It's weird because they changed the date to the day-after (Sunday), so when they changed it back and called off Bocek/Holanda I thought was more in regards to travel schedules than anything. It doesn't seem like Frank Marques is competing either, which sucks cause I wanted to see him go. I think there's something like half a dozen fights now, the main event being a gi match featuring Andrew McInnis. Dammit, why couldn't it have been no gi?! Oh well, still looking forward to it. Also, I noticed that Misha (who YPOV pimped) is an instructor over at Kombat Fitness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
