Tim Cooke

"I don't know. I watched the thing and it just didn't work for me. I almost felt like it got extra praise because it went 40+ minutes...but I thought a lot of it was just slow. I was pretty bored for a good part of that 40 minutes...and I haven't gotten bored at many other RoH matches...none that I can remember. I just kept waiting for something to happen." I hate matches that go long for the sake of going long. Off the top of my head: 9/3/94 Kobashi vs. Williams 1/24/95 Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue 5/7/95 Toyota vs. K. Inoue This was a fine length at 40 for 3 falls. What was slow to you? The actual build were they developed storylines and characters? This match was Flair/Steamboat of 2003 with a far more state of the art moveset and frankly, better selling from London. I get tremendously bored at a lot of ROH matches that are either spotfests or just guys hitting moves for no specific reasons. Tim

"It's predictable booking to the umpth degree. That's illogical booking. Wrestling is supposed to be primarily unpredictable." Illogical booking is booking that doesn't make sense and evoke a response from the crowd. Russo is famous for having "unpredictable booking" though almost all of it didn't make sense and it ended up being predictable. After watching both the 2000 and 2003 Jim Cornette shoots yesterday and this morning, simple, straight forward, thought provoking booking kills a "swerve" anyday. Tim

I Quit or Texas Death Match would be my choices. Last Man Standing, Clockwork Orange, or something to that extent would not make me happy. Tim

500 and 900. But then again, he isn't a typical WWE "Super star." I guess you suck if you aren't WWE Superstar material and don't wrestle in front of 1000's. Wonderful. Tim

Seems to have plenty of charisma and big time feel when I have seen him live various times. I guess I am just not totally focused on ring attire over other ingredients. Tim

" It's amazing how people cream for these guys and yet they HAVE to be the most charismatic void people to ever step into the ring... Seriously...Walters and AM.Drag look like those fucking Jobbers on Superstars in 1987." It's amazing how morons like you see one clipped match and judge on that. Yikes... Tim

QUOTE (Nevermortal @ Nov 15 2003, 09:18 PM) QUOTE (Michrome @ Nov 15 2003, 02:29 PM) Ok, you liked it more...care to explain why? Nope. So now the question is: why did you even give your opinion? ----------- My thoughts exactly, though not unexpected. Tim

Regarding crowds- A bad match gets no heat. A good match will get good heat, regardless if there are 50, 1000, or 13,000 in the building. Tim

"I just saw it a couple days ago for the first time...and I was pretty underwhelmed by it (London/Dragon)." Care to give any details? ------ Benoit vs. Angle was excellent live but upon further viewings, it is no different than their previous encounters, minus the first five minutes of Benoit building to the Sharpshooter. The ending sequence of reversals could be compared to Misawa vs. Kobashi from 6/99. It was technically sound yet it was the same old thing. Oh, and Misawa/Kobashi had better moves and selling, but that is for another time. Maybe a better comparison would be a UWFI "spot fest" where the only high spots are the cross armbreaker spots. Takada/Yamazaki from 4/94 does a reversal section that is cool the first time but once you see other Takada/Yamazaki matches and other matches in the style, you see that their is so much more to work. Tim

"Do you still think that London v. AJ from Night of Grudges is better then London v. Dragon at Epic Encounter?" No. At one point I did, but after numerous viewings, it just isn't what Danielson/London is. Styles/London is still fantastics and one of 4 ROH matches from 2003 that I would give ****+ but it isn't better in my eyes. "And just being curious- What do you think of Homicide v. Corino from 8.16? Do you think it ranks up there with other ROH MOTYC from this year?" ****, but seems to slip downwards sometimes into the ***3/4 range. Homicide KILLS me with his bad selling, especially since he brings a lot of charisma and moves to his matches. But for a babyface, he needs to sell better. Tim

Rudo = " " Tim = no " " “Watched Dragon/London 2/3 falls again - on mute - and there is no way this is MOTY. There's a lot of smart work in it, but there's also a lot of very stupid stuff as well.” Hmmm. There is stupid stuff in Misawa/Kawada 6/3/94 (wrong man winning) but that doesn’t mean it isn’t the best men’s singles match ever. ”HeY! Dragon is tired! No wait! Dragon is fresh! No! Tired! No!!! FRESH!” From memory, London controls early with the side headlock, Dragon takes over with some offense control, and London wins the fall by reversing the top rope move. Care to list where there is a bad transition? ”London's leg is hurt! Look at him SELL~! POWERBOMB! SSP!” Desperation finisher. Once again, for every time Kawada’s leg was hurt from 12/93 to 6/94, he was still able to hit the powerbomb. He hit it twice on 6/3/94 even though Misawa spent an extended segment working over the leg. ”Hey! A headlock! Going nowhere! And another headlock! Also going nowhere! HEY~! A HEADLOCK! GOING NOWHERE!” Called the babyface doing what he needs to control the pace of the match. This match was no Kawada/Tsuruta (10/24/91) but it was trying to establish the same principles. Of course they didn’t get near the level of Tsuruta/Kawada but then again, no one is saying they are at the level of two of the finest. *snip multiple pin falls paragraph due to no specifics* *snip again – see above* ”They over-played the top-rope-battle spot, they must have done that over half-a-dozen times, each ending with "stupid" Dragon falling to the mat.” I *might* agree with you if they hadn’t built that spot up on 12/7/02. That was an important spot on 12/7 because after 3 exchanges, London hit the finisher and was able to get the win. Here, he needs 2 falls instead of one and they play off the previous spots. It may have been a little overdone but I see it more as smartly working a key spot from a previous match and showing its importance. “There was a spot where London and Dragon were copying eachothers moves... for whatever reason... I think they probably thought it would be "fun" to do.” Examples? London hit 7-8 moves the whole match. The “dreaded” headlock, leg lariat from second rope, shooting star press….christ, my mind can’t even think of more than that right now though I know he did more. So where is the copying each others moves? ”Now, correct me if I am wrong, but was American Dragon playing the "cagey veteran"?? Cause I kinda got that feeling. American "4 years in the business" Dragon playing the well-travelled vet doesn't quite work for me.” I didn’t get that impression at all. I got that Danielson was a guy who the company was built around, always has good matches, and is technically sound. London is the up start babyface who everyone loves and has progressed rapidly but his 12/7 win over Danielson only proved that *any one* can get a fluke win. As far as the pacing goes, I think with 2/3 falls they did a fine job. It may have run a tad long but it isn’t like 10/22/94 Kawada vs. Williams where they desperately needed 10 minutes shaven off to even keep it at a “great level.” All in all, the work is just as smart as Benoit’s work was in the Rumble match. Benoit taking the first five minutes and building to the sharpshooter, which then got a HUGE pop when he finally locked it on, is called killing time wisely. The sharpshooter never appeared again nor did the leg selling of Angle, but it was still smart work. After that, I felt the match took a tumble down hill, especially the silly reversals at the end.

"Tim, waiting for a certain argument to be brought forth." *DING DING DING* "Winner" Give me your specific problems with the match and I will give you some answers. After showing this match to some of the people who I believe have the best minds for wrestling analysis (matches), they still have it as their MOTY. But do give me what you don't like about it. I will do my best to explain and if after that you still don't like it, what can I say. Tim

Keep on trolling Rudo, seems like a decent gimmick for yee. Tim, waiting for a certain argument to be brought forth.

Top 10 US: Stan Hanson Vader Ric Flair Barry Windham Hulk Hogan Midnight Express (Cornette/Eaton/Condrey/Lane) Tommy Rogers Harley Race Terry Funk Steve Austin

The 10/16 Baltimore, 9/6 Boston, and 6/28 Philly shows were all WEAKER than 11/28, not too mention 3/15 Boston and almost every show prior to 11/9/02. Wah wah wah. Tim, who went to Baltimore ROH just to make sure they would come back and it paid off, now with Cornette coming!

There is something called objectivity and subjectivity. If I had the tape with me, I would watch the match again and break it down but I don't. But ****1/2 is a MOTYC. That match was NOT a MOTYC. Oh and I also liked Rock/Hogan. Very smartly worked match that got the heat it deserved for being worked so smartly. Tim

I liked the angle at the end of the show but B-Boy vs. Rave ****1/2? That's as crazy as the inflated ratings for the Shelley/Jacobs IWA-MS stuff from 7/19/03. Tim

Should be pointed out that this is NOT for the Pride show but for the Inoki show. Pride hasn't announced anything. Tim

His New Japan and AAA work is all better then his ECW, WCW, and WWF work. His best US work came from WCW. Tim

Rey and Juvi had the following singles matches on AAA TV: 11/30/94 (aired 1/95) 4/21/95 (aired 5/28/95) 6/16/95 (aired 7/28/95) 2/12/96 (Cage) 8/96 (Cage vs. Car) They also had a Raw Footage match in 1994 from AAA. Also have a handheld from 12/10/95. And the 3/16/96 Handheld. Art Barr NEVER seconded Rey. He was a heel from 5/93 to his death. So I haven't a clue what match you are talking about. From memory, the 8/96 match did go around 8 minutes. Tim

Then Kazaa has the wrong date. And Barr died in 12/94. So you obviously have the wrong match. Tim

The only people hearing about the Luger "buzz" are those on the internet since TNA has little, if any, mainstream attention. And about Rock in 2000 not being a draw or at least having to give credit to HHH. 2000 PPV's: Rumble: Trips vs. Foley (Streetfight) - Trips isn't known as the huge risk taker in these types of matches. Credit Foley and the Royal Rumble for selling the PPV. No Way Out: Trips vs. Foley (Hell in a Cell) - Once again, Trips isn't know to take huge bumps off a HIAC. FOley is. Credit Foley, the retirement stip, and the HIAC stip. WrestleMania: Credit a stacked card and a star studded 4 way main event. Backlash: Rock (face) going after HHH (heel) title. Babyface chasing the title is AT LEAST 50% of the draw and with the Rock's merchandise figures from that time period totally making Trips look like crap, I *might* listen to arguments for Trips drawing. Judgement Day: Credit Rock (40%), Trips (20%) and Stipulation 40% of the Iron Man Match. King of the Ring: Pass Fully Loaded: Rock/Benoit headlines. Trips plays second fiddle to Rock. Rock was the CLEAR draw at this point. And from here on out, any little drawing power Trips had is fading away fast. ---------------------- I have watched Velocity for 3 straight weeks due to Paul London. Is he a national draw? Hell no. But is he a personal draw? Yes. Does that mean he will make any money since I like him? Nope. Tim

4/21 and 5/21 are the SAME matches. I don't know of a clipped version of 4/21. Their best singles match was 3/16/96 in Tijuana. www.bobbarnett.com has it. ****3/4 Tim

Great show. Silva/Yoshida and Nogueria/CroCop were the 2 best fights. Sak's win was a great moment though it is clear he is on his last legs. Show of the year, by far. Tim

"This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason." Quote of the year! By the way, there is no such things as Lucharesu either. But that is for another time. Tim