EVIL~! alkeiper

The LA Dodgers have won three straight since trading their heart and soul.

The supplements McGwire took were legal. As for Bonds, Sheffield and Sosa, there is no solid proof of their drug use, and Bonds would have made the Hall if he retired five years ago.

Its worth noting that I'm just about the last person to let sportsmanship exclude a player from the Hall. To me, it depends whether the behaviour effected the player and his team's performance on the field.

For Cobb, its a case of the good (.367 lifetime batting average) outweighing the bad. The HOF guidelines don't say that being a model citizen is a requirement. Its just a consideration. Players who would have a serious strike against them in HOF arguments would be Albert Belle, Dick Allen, and Hal Chase, among others.

I can see it being a "tie breaker" to certain voters. That's very possible, although I would think those who would count the cocaine use about Keith Hernandez already have preconceived notions about his HOF worthiness. In any case, Hernandez has never earned more than 52 HOF votes, so he is not even close. Hernandez garnered just 22 votes last year. He needed 19 just to stay on the ballot.

Yes it would. The question is how much stock you put into it. A similar problem presents itself with Tim Raines and Dave Parker. I do not believe it keeps any of these men out of the Hall of Fame on its own, but it deserves consideration.

Depends on what they do with the format. I'm honestly concerned the current format is unsuitable for selecting any candidates. That won't last, because no candidates = no interest in the Hall. If the new veterans committee fails to elect a candidate within three elections, they'll change it.

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball? It depends on how sympathetic a writer you can find. I am sure more than a few suggested Mattingly was the best player in baseball in the mid-80s. Mattingly never led the league in Win Shares, but no player consistantly beat him, except perhaps Wade Boggs. 2. Was he the best player on his team? Yes. From 1984-89, Mattingly was the best player on the New York Yankees. 3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position? For two years in 1985-86, Mattingly was the best first baseman in baseball. Afterwards, he was eclipsed by Will Clark in the majors, and Mark McGwire in the American League. 4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races? In 1985, Mattingly slugged .611, .737, and .684 in the last three months as the Yankees fell two games short of the AL East crown. Mattingly's huge second half performance earned him the MVP award. In 1988, Mattingly hit .328 in Spetember in another close pennant race. Mattingly was a slow starter, hitting 272/341/395 in April over his career. 5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? No. Mattingly retired at the age of 34. 6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No. 7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? No, of the ten most similar players, two are in the Hall, four are ineligible (and unlikely), and four are out. 8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? Very close. Mattingly scores 23 on the Black Ink test, 111 on the Gray Ink test, and meets 34% of HOF Standards. 9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? Mattingly won nine consecutive Gold Gloves. 10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? Mattingly is one of three strong First Basemen, along with Keith Hernandez and Dick Allen. It is a close call. 11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? Mattingly won the MVP award in 1985, finished 2nd in 1986, and in the top ten in 1984 and '87. 12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? Mattingly played in six All-Star games. 13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant? In his prime years of 1985 and '86, yes. Otherwise, I doubt it. 14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Mattingly is responsible for baseball's most lasting image of George Steinbrenner, who insisted Mattingly shave off his sideburns. 15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider? Yes. Conclusion: Mattingly provides an interesting case. He was very good during his prime, but his prime was incredibly short. I expected to reject Mattingly out of hand, but that is hard to do. Ultimately, I cannot endorse him. Keith Hernandez had a longer career, and an equal OPS+, and he's not in. Dick Allen was twice the hitter, dominated a few years, longer, and he is not in. I would not be surprised to see a future veterans' committee elect Mattingly, but I don't see it at the present time.

'Sault will be happy to know I pulled Don Mattingly's name for the next Keltner List.

I don't hate him. I just hate when ballplayers are willing to hurt themselves just to prove that they're trying. If he had a shot at that ball, great. Don't rip up your knee trying to put on a show. Mickey Mantle forever relayed a story about Pete Rose attempting a similar catch in spring training, and thus earning the nickname "Charlie Hustle". I imagine he was trying the same thing Byrnes tried.

Given the state of some ESPN commentators, a quiet game wouldn't be a bad idea once in a while.

I'll say the same thing I say which any "Athletes you hate...." thread. If you have ten or more athletics on your list, the problem is you.

I meant two weeks.

A quick check on retrosheet and baseball-reference.com indicates 33 2/3 scoreless postseason innings for Ford, and 34 1/3 for Mariano Rivera.

I'm sure I'll remember others, but Orel Hershiser's record of 59 scoreless innings definately deserves mention. Hershiser compiled a 5-0 record in September, without giving up a single run.

Its a good series just because they are two division leaders. I don't think there's another series this week that compares simply in terms of quality teams.

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball? Doubtful. 2. Was he the best player on his team? No. In fact, Kaat was only one of the top three players on his team twice, on the 1966 Twins (behind Harmon Killebrew and Tony Oliva) and the 1975 White Sox (behind Goose Gossage). 3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position? Kaat led the American league in Win Shares just once, in 1966. Unfortunately, he did not win a Cy Young as baseball gave just one award for both leagues at that time, and Sandy Koufax won unanimously. MLB awarded split Cy Youngs beginning the next season. 4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races? Yes. Kaat compiled a 12-4 record in the second half when the Minnesota Twins won the AL pennant in 1965. Kaat also finished 4-0 in September/October as the Twins won the AL West in 1970. In 1976, however, Kaat finished 4-12 in the second half as the Philadelphia Phillies won the NL East. Kaat compiled an 0-4 record in September the following season as the Phillies again won the NL East. This time, he did not even pitch in the postseason. Over his career (where records are available), Kaat finished 35-43 in August, 43-31 in September, and 2-2 in October. 5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? Yes. Kaat pitched until he was 44 years old. 6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No. 7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? Seven of Kaat's ten most similar players are in the Hall of Fame. The only exceptions are Tommy John, Bert Blyleven, and Frank Tanana. 8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? Kaat scores 19 on the Black Ink test, 128 on the Gray Ink test, and meets 44% of HOF Standards. 9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? Kaat won the Gold Glove almost every year. 10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? I doubt it. 11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? Kaat finished in the top 10 of MVP voting just once, but its rare for pitchers to receive recognition. He only finished in the running for Cy Young once, finishing fourth in 1975. 12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? Kaat played in three All-Star games, a low total. 13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant? Doubtful. Kaat only topped 20 win shares four times, and never earned more than 26. The Twins teams he reached the playoffs with were some of the deepest pitching staffs in baseball history. 14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Kaat was one of the first pitchers to utilize their 10-5 trading rights, rejecting a trade to California. 15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider? Yes. Conclusion: Jim Kaat's career numbers are deserving. He won 283 games, a very good total. But Kaat compiled these numbers because he played in a great era for starters, and because he stuck around. Kaat never got close to a Cy Young award. He only led the league in wins once. He NEVER finished in the top 5 in ERA. Kaat was hardly a dominant pitcher in his time, and I can't see supporting his case for induction.

If its any consulation, its doubtful Lieber will start come the postseason.

Between Jermaine Dye just now and Bobby Crosby, the Athletics are playing great defense tonight.

Speak of the Devil, its 4-4 in the Bronx.

And for fun, since we're on a roll...... Cabrera: 243/294/338. 5 HR, 32 RBI, 28 BB. Rich Aurilia: 246/308/345. 4 HR, 32 RBI, 24 BB. Cabrera cost the Sox Nomar, Aurilia costs the Padres some scrub from A ball.

The Yankees signed John Olerud today. I felt like pointing this out..... Olerud: 245/354/360. 5 HR, 22 RBI, 40 BB, 3 Gold Gloves. Mientkiewicz: 253/344/367. 5 HR, 25 RBI, 38 BB, 1 Gold Glove. Similar seasons. The difference? The Sox traded Nomar for Mientkiewicz, and Olerud was dumped by the worst team in the league, and available for next to nothing.

I added Grich, Johnson and O'Neill. I will review just about any HOF candidates you guys wish, except Pete Rose and Joe Jackson.

Ok guys. We are NOT having a single thread to cover a two day sporting event.

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball? Probably not. Thurman Munson won the MVP award in 1976, but he was far from the best candidate. Voters love RBI hitters on pennant winners. George Brett was a more deserving player that season. 2. Was he the best player on his team? In 1974 he tied Bobby Murcer for the team lead in Win Shares. Otherwise he was never the best player on his team. He was the third best player on the '77 squad, and eighth best on the '78 squad. 3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position? Munson was a comtemporary of Johnny Bench, so obviously he wasn't the best catcher in baseball. In the American League, he was perhaps the best catcher in the early 70s, but Fisk took over in 1977. 4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races? In 1976, the Yankees won the AL East and Munson won the MVP. He hit .233 in August and .291 in September. He drew one walk in September, garnering a LOWER OBP than batting average. In 1977, Munson hit 362/380/533 in September as the Yankees won the division by 2.5 games. In 1978, Munson slugged .340 and .311 in August and September respectively as the Yankees stormed from 14 games out to beat the Red Sox. 5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? No, given the circumstances. But let's assume the plane crash didn't happen. Munson slugged .373 in 1978, and .374 in 1979. Munson was clearly on the decline at the age of 32. 6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? Not by a longshot. 7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? None of Munson's most similar players are in the Hall. 8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? No. Munson scored zero on the Black Ink test, 46 on the Gray Ink test, and meets just 29.5% of HOF standards. 9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? If you believe in chemestry, he was the "captain" of two World Series teams. He also won three Gold Gloves. 10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? No. That honor goes to either Ted Simmons or Joe Torre. 11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? Munson won one MVP award, and finished seventh in 1975 and 1977. 12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? Munson played in seven All-Star games. 13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant? Probably not. The Yankees didn't win until they signed Catfish Hunter. 14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? None apparent. 15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider? Generally. He was considered a mean player by some of his teammates, but that did not appear to effect his play. Conclusion: Munson wasn't really the best catcher in the league even during his prime, so its hard to buy into the argument that he would make the Hall if the tragedy was avoided. His career was in decline at the time of the accident. Munson hit 113 home runs, but hit just nine in his last season and a half. Munson would have been lucky to reach 150 home runs. He never led the league in any offensive category. I do not want to disparage the image of a deceased player, but Munson was not a Hall of Fame quality player.