Hogan question

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Would have just directly replied to the post in question, but I figured this required it's own thread.

 

In the WM19 thread, Brian said in reference to Hogan's retirement:

Hopefully he never comes back

 

Why the hell do people say things like this? I guess since a lot of people on this board see Ric Flair as the be-all end-all of pro wrestlers, there's a lot of people who hate Hogan, but people make ignorant statements like the above without seeing what the guy brings to the table for the average WWF mark (doesn't read dirtsheets, loves WWF, hated/ignored WCW, etc.)

 

Back in the 80s when wrestling was like a cartoon, Hogan was like a new version of Popeye. The guy just kept on goin', and although people eventually got tired of his act, there's still some fond memories of it so long after the fact. Throw in the fact that the whole retroism going around the past five years makes Hogan kinda cool, and he's a great PR piece of sorts.

 

Go to any particular fan meet, and you can find twenty-somethings wearing loud tacky Hulk shirts many years departed from their childhood. Guys and girls alike mark out and gush as Hogan autographs, shakes hands, hugs, poses for photos, whatever. You don't get this kind of experience with an overpushed rookie like Brock Lesnar. You don't get it with Benoit (although I guess you could if they tried, as Bret had quite a fandom.) People don't sit and fondly remember the hosses, either.

 

While nobody expects Hogan to put on a MOTYC, the guy still has a presence with marks that can last for a couple years (the length of his contract) at least. To just pay the guy to sit around at home or dump his contract earlier because he's not a Workrate Machine is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Guest alfdogg]

Thoughts?

I think it's not a good idea to start a thread calling Brian or any other mod ignorant outside of flaming.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

You missed the point. I wasn't calling him out, I was saying his comments are echoed by a wide variety of posters on this board. If you didn't see the sentence after that quote, I said "Why the hell do people say things like this?" I didn't say just him.

 

 

READ. COMPREHEND. POST.

[Guest alfdogg]

Why do people say things like that?

 

Maybe because PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT WRESTLERS THAN YOU DO.

 

You don't have to start a fucking rant on people for not liking what you like. That was MY point.

[Guest Mik at Cornell]

I agree with Jobber of the Week. My friends love Hogan. The only reason my friends agreed to travel 7 hours to see Wrestlemania was to see Hogan. People shouldn't just write him off, sure he can't work for shit but he offers a hell of a lot.

 

As for alfdog's comment, the mods are people not Gods. If you outright flame them, fine you are wrong, but if you say an opinion different than theirs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and if you were banned for it it would be a pathetic abuse of power. I think the mods do a fine job right now, but people shouldn't be kissing their ass and afraid to voice opinions different than theirs.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Sorry. I guess I'm not allowed to pick people's brains and find out why they think certain things. And by the way, I only watched WWF 99-on so I'm not exactly a Hogan fan or anything, I've just heard the Horror Stories from the WCW locker room and how he's supposedly behaving himself nowadays.

 

*shrug*

 

Sorry. Didn't mean to make anybody think. Won't happen again, Chief. I promise. You can go back to your mindless "HHH sux" and "hoss~!@" and "undertweener likes dik" posts now.

[Guest alfdogg]

As for alfdog's comment, the mods are people not Gods. If you outright flame them, fine you are wrong, but if you say an opinion different than theirs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and if you were banned for it it would be a pathetic abuse of power. I think the mods do a fine job right now, but people shouldn't be kissing their ass and afraid to voice opinions different than theirs.

I didn't say they were Gods, and I didn't say he should be banned. I would appreciate it if you didn't twist my words.

 

You can express a difference of opinion without calling the other person ignorant was my point.

[Guest Ozymandias]

Hogan has NOTHING to offer as a wrestler or as a character. Both of his personas (face and heel) are completely burnt-out and he just isn't talented enough to come up with something different. He is HORRIBLY dated and the only thing that could have saved him - a WWF return - already happened and the charm of that is gone now, there is nothing left that could give his character freshness. I won't even get into his decompsing body and unwatchable wrestling (even by mark standards).

 

 

Hogan has zero left to offer. Sorry.

[Guest alfdogg]

HHH sux

 

hoss~!@

 

undertweener likes dik

 

Thank you.

[Chunk 0]

i think the reaction that Hulk got at WM speaks for itself. If the fans turned against Rock then surely there must be a huge number of hulk fans left out there.

 

even though his wrestling is poor, i find the guy to be often entertaining, and at the end of the day that beats a lot of the guys on the roster. Id rather watch Hulk than: Buh Buh, Dvon, Rikishi or Howard Finkle go off on one at LIllian Garcia.

 

ChUnK!

[Guest benoitrules2000]

Hogan is old, decrepid, and can barely walk.

 

His schtick is tired and the fact that he's even employed is beyond ridiculous and in the end he's only taking up space, money and tv time that could be going to the next generation of young up and comers.

 

I find it ridiculous when someone actually tries to defend the manipulation this man has exerted to get where he is.

Nostalgia runs are all well and good, but the wwe just can't seem to realize that that's not gonna do shit for the business to bring back old tired versions of once great wrestlers(nwo, hogan).

 

I think it's truly time to hang up your boots when you can barely fucking walk, let alone actually get off the ground to execute a legdrop.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

[Guest bob_barron]

I was digging Hogan's nostalgia run. Except for the month he had the title I've thought it was fun.

 

He tapped out to the anklelock.

He did the mega-job and got Brock Lesnar over.

He worked in the midcard with guys like Edge, Storm and Christian.

He also gets great pops and makes the crowd happy.

 

I think Hogan v. Vince will be a fun match and will draw.

[Guest benoitrules2000]

He hasn't given a rub to anyone for all the jobs he's done.

Lesnar is NOT over and hogan just needs to leave or die, whichever comes first.

 

If i sound like i'm being irrational, then i can't help that i despise everything about him now.

 

You can say all you want about him being a legend but the FACT is that he DOESN'T draw anymore, you even admitted his title reign tanked.

If he's not worth being the champion then what good is he to the company?

 

He'll just keep taking up space and ruining opportunities for the youngsters.

The marks are tired of him for god's sake, just pack it in.

[Guest jester]

I never liked Hogan, even when he clearly was a draw. Even as a total mark, I noticed how he seemed to know all of three moves. Compared to guys like Savage, whose feet actually left the mat on occasion, I found him boring to watch. That is, when he actually wrestled, which he rarely seemed to do. And being a Canadian, his all-American shtick did nothing for me.

 

Today I do think he has some value, but I don't want to see him take up too much time. And it was bloody fucking stupid to have him no-sell Lesnar's offense during the hulk-up. People say Lesnar is being booked as a monster heel, NO HE ISN'T. That may be the intention, but monster heels don't go down from one punch from UT or a superkick from MIcheals. And the layout Hogan, even when he is hulking up.

 

Got a little off topic and into more Lesnar bashing there, sorry. But generally, that's why I don't like Hogan. Making money or no for WWE, I can live without seeing him.

[Guest bob_barron]

I never was a big Hogan fan either- I started watching in 92 and liked Savage and when he went to WCW I marked for Sting and Flair.

 

Saying Hogan needs to leave or die- ummmm okay.

 

Sure his title reign sucked but he was also feuding with Undertaker.

 

The fans feel special seeing Hogan- he has this aura about him.

 

I saw him live and the crowd exploded and loved the guy- He was good as a midcard attraction.

 

I don't think he should be main eventing but having him in the midcard working with the young guys was a great idea.

 

Oh and Hogan totally got Brock over. Did you see SummSlam?

[Guest bob_barron]

About Hogan-

 

Triple H never tapped to the anklelock.

Taker never tapped to the anklelock.

Rock never tapped to the anklelock.

Austin did tap but under really screwy circumstances.

 

Hogan did.

[Guest jester]

I didn't see Summerslam, but from what I hear that crowd shouldn't be taken as an indication of Brock's overness. After all, they were cheering him at several points, probably because of the anti-Rock backlash. This suggests to me that Brock isn't fully established as a heel, even after beating up Hogan.

 

Who, once again, should have been beaten to a pulp by Brock during the stupid bloody Hulk up. Brock should have grabbed his finger, broken it off, and shoved up his stupid orange---

 

Sorry, I just strongly dislike Hogan.

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

I hated it when Hogan was Champion, but in his last role as mid-card nostalgia/comedy act, I quite enjoyed it.

Especially his comparison of Mr. Nanny to the Scorpion King and his threatening to do a Swanton Bomb!

[Guest TheHulkster]

While I don't think he should be world champion, saying he has nothing to offer is going a bit too far. If Hogan comes back at the Survivor Series to face Lesnar at the Garden, it would have much more heat than Lesnar Vs anyone else except for the Rock, Austin, or Goldberg. That would be good for Lesnar because he needs all the heat he can get. This is one way Hogan is useful. Like it or not, he's a heat magnet, and thats what American Wrestling has been about for about 20 years now since the WWF rose to power, getting heat.

[Guest Zero_Cool]

Hogan is best in the mid-card, no doubt in my mind. Hell, pair him up with Hurricane and Shannon Moore and you get them both over...plus, Hurricane/Hogan segments could be freaking hilarious.

[Guest Brian]

Hogan's title run proved he's no draw. He drove away the WWE's biggest demographic. He can hardly wrestle. Most of the dream matches are gone as he's interacted with all the big names. He has no rub to give. What's the point of him coming back? The Worm was a good mid-card attraction, the stinkface is a good mid-card attraction, Road Dogg's spiel is a good mid-card attraction. But they don't directly affect ticket sales, and neither does Hogan; well, he did drive more people away than to the WWE. Maybe Hogan's worth one more job to Lesnar but not on pay per view, you'd have to stack up a card to make it worth it because after last try no one wants to see Hogan win.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh please, there is no correlation between Hogan's reign and a drop in ratings. The Wwf's ratings 'boom' ended in 2000 and started to decline in late 2000-2001, which was a result of a stale product, no new stars, insulting storylines, etc. No one man can drive viewers away, and if one man can, he'd have to do A LOT more than what Hogan did. His title reign was neither a success nor a failure, but just another hole in the Wwf's swiss cheese of suckage - in other words, the fans were already leaving before Hogan was champ.

 

Hogan is still good for say a 6 man tag at a big PPV or somethin, but no real big storylines, no wasted TV time, but just as a special attraction that would take up about 10 minutes of time just for 'entertainment' purposes, ala Jumbo/Baba AJ comedy matches from mid-late 90s. The fans enjoyed them, it offered a change in pace and variety - or even a piss break, and no one got hurt in the process.

 

Terry Taylor:

 

Hulk Hogan – Simply the biggest name in the history of the business. At one time was the most recognized person in the world. Hulk brought wrestling out of the dark alleys and made it have crossover appeal. Hulk also allowed every other talent to make the most they could. He made it possible for wrestlers to earn millions of dollars. He raised the bar in every way.

 

It would be wrong for me to exclude this fact. While Hulk made every town, every appearance, every morning drive radio show, every prime time TV show – which created good will that all wrestlers enjoyed. He did something very few people know about. Hulk saw a “Make a Wish” kid every night for 10 years. Think about this, a dying child’s last wish is to meet their hero Hulk Hogan. Hulk NEVER said, “No”. The emotional wear and tear on Hulk had to be incredible. These kids saw Hulk once – which gave them peace as they passed on. Hulk had to shoulder the emotional burden of knowing these kids loved him and traveled many miles under brutal conditions and in horrible pain hanging on long enough to see Hulk Hogan. That grind would have killed anyone else and I am a huge Hulk supporter. If that doesn’t put Hulk’s legacy and our problems in perspective – nothing ever will. I thank him for what he did for all of us.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Outside of a Wrestlemania rematch against Rock or retirement match against Vince, a revenge title match against Lesnar at a PPV is about all Hogan has left in terms of being a major impact.

[Guest Comeback Apple]

Sorry. Didn't mean to make anybody think. Won't happen again, Chief. I promise. You can go back to your mindless "HHH sux" and "hoss~!@" and "undertweener likes dik" posts now.

You are pretty awesome. Proportionately, at least.

 

 

Hogan has NOTHING to offer as a wrestler or as a character. Both of his personas (face and heel) are completely burnt-out and he just isn't talented enough to come up with something different.

They're burned out when no one cares. Not just you.

 

He is HORRIBLY dated and the only thing that could have saved him - a WWF return - already happened and the charm of that is gone now, there is nothing left that could give his character freshness.

The charm is gone! Because you said so! Itisallsoclearnow!

 

I won't even get into his decompsing body and unwatchable wrestling (even by mark standards).

If you went into his decomposing body, you may be able to obtain his essence for your own use!

 

Hogan has zero left to offer. Sorry.

Unless everyone suddenly get sick of him between the Lesnar match and his return, I'd say you're wrong. But I think I already said that.

 

 

]He hasn't given a rub to anyone for all the jobs he's done. Lesnar is NOT over and hogan just needs to leave or die, whichever comes first.

Is it really Hogan's fault no one cares about Brock Lesnar?

 

If i sound like i'm being irrational, then i can't help that i despise everything about him now.

You sound like it becasue you ARE!

 

If he's not worth being the champion then what good is he to the company?

Putting guys over and making the crowd happy!

 

He'll just keep taking up space and ruining opportunities for the youngsters.

I don't really see how he's ruining opportunities. Besides, he's not going to be around much longer, y'know.

 

 

About Hogan-

 

Triple H never tapped to the anklelock.

Taker never tapped to the anklelock.

No, but Undertaker tapped to some non-established chokehold or something. And then he tried to act like it never happened and went on talking about how Angle wasn't in his league. What a puss, eh?

 

 

 

Maybe Hogan's worth one more job to Lesnar but not on pay per view, you'd have to stack up a card to make it worth it because after last try no one wants to see Hogan win.

Maybe no one wants him to have another reign, but don't tell me no one'd like to see Hogan kick Brock Lesnar's head into the parking lot and legdrop him into outer space!

[Guest Rabbi_wilson13]

How can you possibly say Hogan isn't a draw or isn't worth something?

 

Who made Wrestlemania?

 

Hulk Hogan.

 

Now I'm not a big Hogan fan. I love Ric Flair ten times more than him, and still patiently await the day a Jericho/Benoit/Angle/Guerrero match headlines a PPV, but to say he has no value or no worth and you want him to die or go away? That is being ignorant, because if its against Lesnar, or against a young gun with a solid feud, Hogan is worth something. But just like any other commodity or wrestler, you must use him right.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I'm not going to be as aggressive as Comeback, since I'm just sitting back and gauging all the opinions here, but people who say Hogan has no draw whatsoever forgot how quite a few were pissed when he was withdrawn from the Australia tour.

 

Granted, these are people who rarely see live WWE wrestling period, but this was a show where almost all the other main event talent was visiting, too.

[Guest Brian]

Hogan's jobbed far too much since he's come back for his job to mean anything. He's lost to everyone. The only rematch he has of any value is against Lesnar. Making WrestleMania years back and now are two different time periods.

 

I like the quote of Taylor telling the wrestling myth. Didn't everyone read when Meltzer posted that and shot it all down. But while the first paragraph is all myth, the second is commendable. But Hogan is forty eight now, and things he did twenty years ago have very little foundation.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I didn't read it, please elaborate. Was Hogan NOT a key figure in Wrestlings Rise?

[Guest Brian]

But that was twenty years ago. And while he made wrestling popular in the mainstream, wrestling had already moved out of the crevaces of society by then. NWA, IWA Georgia, Portland, etc. had all run big drawing shows. Wrestling had been on National TV for years before than.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh you were talking about THAT myth - I thought you were talking about the 'Hogan popularizing wrestling' myth - as if he wasn't on the cover of sports illustrated or something. Big shows were run before Hogan, that's for sure. But the paydays weren't as big until after Hogan.