Has anyone else considered that it's not terrorism

[Guest RobJohnstone]

"As the mountains rose and the ocean basins sank after the Flood (Psalm 104:5-8, Gen. 8:1), the waters rushed off the rising mountains into the new ocean basins. This rapid-erosion through still-soft, unprotected sediments formed the topography we still see today, in places like the Grand Canyon."

 

--Rob

[Guest EricMM]

But... For crying out loud... What... I mean... No...

 

Just because someone typed it out does not make it true. Was this person a scientist? I doubt it. Haven't you learned a DAMN THING about geology?

 

Do you realize how much of an unintelligent parrot you are?

 

Science proves that the earth is billions of years old!

 

Science proves evolution!

 

Religion proves nothing!

 

If all Christians tried to insist that the rest of the world had to subscribe to the exact words of the bible, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE CHRISTIANITY because intelligent people would choose the truth over the false. There is a LOT of value in religion but it contains no SCIENCE...

 

Just try to understand the truth...

 

Take your head out of the sand, because if the only place you can find bliss is ignorance, YOU. ARE. FUCKED.

 

People trumpeting ignorance as truth is part of the problem all throughout the world. It pains me to say this, but you are a small part of that problem! When you have children, what will you teach them, that the earth is seven thousand years old? That's not religious preference that is IGNORANCE!!!!!

[Guest Cancer Marney]

...

 

Johnstone, I really have nothing more to say to you. Your proof is yet another Just So story? Fine. Just... fine.

 

Fine.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

no no no no NO, I'm not even done with this nonsense. Remember a while back when I said the young earth theory was my second favorite thing to argue about when it came to christianity and the bible?

 

Well, my friend, you've just stumbled upon numero uno, the great flood.

 

Shall I start with the impossibility of all that water being on the planet, all that water somehow GOING somewhere, or how a pair of all the worlds' species couldn't fit on a boat of its dementions...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Of Mountains and Seas

 

Ok, considering that "the great flood" covered all of the land on the planet, a planet only a few thousand years old, we can assume that this water covered Mt. Everest, the world's tallest peak, which is 29,028 ft (8,848 m) high. That's just to cover the tippy-top of said peak. Five and a half miles of rain, planet-wide, in the time span of 960 hours. (40 x 24 hours)

 

That's 30.2 feet of water per hour.

 

Or 6 inches of rain per minute.

 

Care to guess the temperature at that altitude?

 

How about the concentration of oxygen in that part of the atmosphere?

 

I'll spare exact statistics at this point and say very very cold, and almost no oxygen.

 

Explorers need to carry tanks of air to even climb that peak for god's sake. Do you think they had that luxury in biblical times? of course not. Let alone the survival of all the animals that were subjected to those conditions. Did god create some magical bubble of air and warmth for Noah and co? If so, forget about that whole "Passive god" idea that was brought up earlier, THAT would require some pretty amazing divine intervention.

 

I'm not drowning

 

Now, let's forgo all logical thought and assume our bible pals are floating about just below a jet liner's cruising altitude on a raging sea. The miles and miles of H2O below them had to come from someplace, and it had to go somewhere. Now, why is it that I'm sitting here in the midwest and am not submerged in approximately 5.5 miles of freezing brine? Did it all just evaporate? Why isn't it in our atmosphere right now?

 

A floating zoo, barn, and garden

 

What was the fate of plant life? Did Noah bring all sorts of trees on the ark as well? Since you don't believe evolution exists either, how in the fuck can you possibly think all those fuzzy critters and all those leafy trees fit on a boat of these dimensions, According to Genesis 6:15:

 

135 meters long (300 cubits), 22.5 meters wide (50 cubits), and 13.5 meters high (30 cubits). That's 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high.

 

A craft that size isn't large enough to support the life of 2 OF EVERY ANIMAL ON EARTH, taking into account space for food, cleanliness factors, animals eating each other, freezing, and gasping for breath, for 40 days and 40 nights, not to mention animals on different continents not being able to even reach the ark in the first place. Besides, they land on Ararat, Noah turns the critters loose, how did they get home?

 

Sleep with the Fishes

 

Now, the seas are teeming with all forms of sea life. We know the oceans are salty, and rainfall is fresh water. This isn't anything new, next time it rains, go outside and taste some rainwater. Go ahead. Taste some. It's fresh! 5.5 miles of fresh water and the water in the ocean would mix into a brackish mess, effectively killing all sea animals, both fresh water and salt. Let's also consider the immense pressure the sudden addition of that much water would be subjected to all sea life. Well, taking a look at our oceans teeming with life, something is obviously fishy there. (Dig the pun.)

 

LAND, HO!

 

The floating menagerie crash landed on Mount Ararat, allegedly, and Ararat's two peaks, named Great Peak and Little Peak, are 16,916 feet, and 12,840 feet respectively. Conditions aren't much friendlier there. Certainly not nice enough to start a vineyard, at any rate.

 

Forget about even bringing the Grand Canyon into this, which is a whole new can of worms I'll be glad to make you eat if you really want. Hopefully this will be enough to give you heartburn.

 

Listen to reason.

 

-Agent of Oblivion.

[Guest EricMM]

Me: 4! 4!!! It's 4!!!

RJS: 2+2=5! 5!!!!

Me: 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RJS: The Bible says 2+2=5. I have FAITH that 2+2=5.

Me: Baka...

 

RJS you may think you're being logical, but we're all hearing 2+2=5. do some research. Use that brain god gave you (thru millions of years of evolution )

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I could care less about what you ass's think. I cannot prove my theories and that is fine. I let faith do that for me. But, you can't prove yours either so I guess we will be talking about this for a while.

 

--Rob

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Chrissakes, Johnstone. The expression is "I couldn't care less." If you could care less, you do care what we "ass's [sic]" think, and I don't believe that's what you wanted to say. I know you hate logic, but at least try to make sense as far as grammar goes.

 

Man, that gets on my nerves.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Is this a God v. No God discussion? I came in on it late.

 

You all realize this will go on forever as there isn't enough proof on either side to be correct. I side with science myself, not as much hearsay involved.

 

Kotzenjunge

Still Can't Explain a Lot of Science

[Guest DrTom]

But, you can't prove yours either so I guess we will be talking about this for a while.

Science has provided ample proof that the earth is much, much older than 6000 years, that the Grand Canyon wasn't formed by the Biblical Great Flood, and that the likelihood of such a flood happening is exceedingly remote. Science can't answer all the questions about the origins of the universe and why we're here, but it's still a rather young discipline, and I'll take "to be determined" over derivative mythology anyday.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Yes, and the best part about science is that the more it develops, the faster it develops. Each new discovery leads to ten more it seems.

 

Kotzenjunge

Likes Science

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

All I could think of reading the posts about the ark was Eddie Izzard's bit with Noah played by Sean Connery in his schpeed boat, and the evil ducks.

 

There are a million and one objections science throws up against religion, but I don't think there's much point arguing with people like RJ, really, as they don't take a logical stand on even their own position, let alone the scientists.

[Guest DrTom]

All I could think of reading the posts about the ark was Eddie Izzard's bit with Noah played by Sean Connery in his schpeed boat, and the evil ducks.

Heh, I thought of that, too. I wonder if Noah really did have the long-eared animals lined up on the sides of the boat...

[Guest HecateRose]

Science may continue to develop, but until we are able to teach about evolution in schools to some degree (I understand why many people object to discussing it in humans, but there are other animals that have evolved that we can study) we won't be allowing our nation to develop new scientists to further the investigation. If you can't really discuss evolution until college (and even some colleges don't teach it very well) we will not advance at a sufficient rate. This is just my opinion, and I do not fully discount the possibility of their being a God/ Goddess/ Giant All-Knowing Platypus/ etc. but we will never know all we can know about Earth until we can teach evolution on some level

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I could care less about what you ass's think. I cannot prove my theories and that is fine. I let faith do that for me. But, you can't prove yours either so I guess we will be talking about this for a while.

 

--Rob

What the fuck are you even talking about? That post didn't answer any questions or even reply to any facts I put forth in my post, it's just you jamming your head in the sand like an ostrich. Do you honestly believe a boat too small to hold the animals that couldn't get to the boat in the first place could survive on a raging sea that couldn't occur in a part of the atmosphere where humans need oxygen tanks to breathe? Seriously, I want a yes or no answer. If the answer is yes, I think you're a fucking idiot, and I won't apologize for that.

[Guest Ace309]

Science may continue to develop, but until we are able to teach about evolution in schools to some degree (I understand why many people object to discussing it in humans, but there are other animals that have evolved that we can study) we won't be allowing our nation to develop new scientists to further the investigation. If you can't really discuss evolution until college (and even some colleges don't teach it very well) we will not advance at a sufficient rate. This is just my opinion, and I do not fully discount the possibility of their being a God/ Goddess/ Giant All-Knowing Platypus/ etc. but we will never know all we can know about Earth until we can teach evolution on some level

 

Um... as far as I know, evolution is taught in every state's biology curriculum. Even in Kansas, it was simply de-emphasized.

[Guest HecateRose]

Most schools run by the Department of Defense (ie the schools that most militart dependant children attend) banned evolution, so did most schools in Texas. Most of my schooling was through DoD schools, maybe that's why I see it that way

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I know we still teach evolution in Canada.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Sigh. You are all stupid. Life has we know it is a gigantic computer simulation.

 

"God" is just a user who found how to hack the system. God's a hacker.

PH34r G0o| 4 He C7nTR015 u5 A11

 

 

The universe is written in God Code.

[Guest EricMM]

I could care less about what you ass's think. I cannot prove my theories and that is fine. I let faith do that for me. But, you can't prove yours either so I guess we will be talking about this for a while.

 

I just wanted to remark on this statement.

 

We already proved that the universe/earth is millions of years old.

 

We proved the flood was impossible.

 

Unless you can explain how all that water could disappear, or how you could fit all the animals on a boat, or anything like that, pick up a book and learn.

 

Religious stories are meant to instill values, not history, and not science.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<I could care less about what you ass's think. I cannot prove my theories and that is fine. I let faith do that for me. But, you can't prove yours either so I guess we will be talking about this for a while.>>>

 

Groan. You asked for proof of evolution, you got it, and then you disappeared. Now you try to offer proof of a great flood, you get shredded by AoO, and you respond by calling us asses. The bottom line is that you can't defend your positions, because your positions are indefensible. Just give it up and go away.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Ok, I have done some research involving my arguement of creation over evolution. Something I cannot grasp is symbiosis.

 

Symbiosis- the intimate living together of two dissimilar organisms in a mutually beneficial relationship

 

An example would be the Nile crocodile. It allows a small bird called the Egyptian plover to enter it's mouth to clean it's teeth of harmful bacteria. If the plover does not remove these intruders, the crocodile can be seriously harmed. The parasites are the Plover bird's sole source of nutrition.

 

Now saying this, these two "species" would have needed to evolve at the smae time in order to survive. Of course these are not the only 2. The yucca mouth and the yucca plant have the same relation ship as well as bees and flowers.

 

Can someone who believes in evolution explain to me how this occured, thanks

 

--Rob

[Guest MrRant]

Ok, I have done some research involving my arguement of creation over evolution. Something I cannot grasp is symbiosis.

 

Symbiosis- the intimate living together of two dissimilar organisms in a mutually beneficial relationship

 

An example would be the Nile crocodile. It allows a small bird called the Egyptian plover to enter it's mouth to clean it's teeth of harmful bacteria. If the plover does not remove these intruders, the crocodile can be seriously harmed. The parasites are the Plover bird's sole source of nutrition.

 

Now saying this, these two "species" would have needed to evolve at the smae time in order to survive. Of course these are not the only 2. The yucca mouth and the yucca plant have the same relation ship as well as bees and flowers.

 

Can someone who believes in evolution explain to me how this occured, thanks

 

--Rob

As far as the croc and the bird go. The parasite may be a recent development (on a Earthly scale) that could have been brought on by changing enviromental conditions.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

but there are hundreds of symbiotic relationships. It just doesn't hold the evolution theory up.

 

--Rob

[Guest MrRant]

And there have been 100's of enviromental changes that have occured over the thousands upon thousands of years. Polar Bears weren't just born with white coats you know because there happens to be snow in the Arctic... they evolved into them from the eviroment changing. White makes it easier for them to hunt prey because it makes them harder to see.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I understand that, but they still would have had to evolve at the smae EXACT time to survive. Without one the other cannot live. I just think with so many cases of a perfect situation that this could happen, in sperate occurance on different "species".

 

--Rob

[Guest MrRant]

They would live it would depend on how long. Flowers can also transfer pollen by air/animals brushing against them. Bee's just happen to help the process and get something in return.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

well bee's and flowers are not examples of 100% symbiotic "species". But the Nile alligator and the plover are. Also the yucca mouth and yucca are.

 

--Rob

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Symbiotic relationships are ways of nature having organisms that fill niches, and without it this planet would fall apart. Just ask the millions of bacteria that live in and on you.

 

Also, parallel as well as convergent and divergent evolution can take place. Since nature is one big catching-up process with the leaders of the pack setting the tone for the race, often species DO develop almost simultaneously, dependent on how much the other species' development affects their own.

 

For your example of the crocodile and the bird, if the bacteria developed some kind of aversion to the crocodile, the bird would find an alternate source of food or die, and its metabolic processes would change to fit this. Nothing ever evolves at the EXACT same time, since mutation is different for every single offspring on the planet of any species.

 

Kotzenjunge

Would Go Deeper Into This if it Wasn't So Late

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Ok that still does not convince me but how about this. How is it that most species have "evolved" into male and female species. Like I stated before, the world is to perfect not to have a designer or a CREATOR. You need a male and a female to reproduce. If you mutation is your answer I can't even comprehend you assumptions. Let's think of this more as science vs. reason.

 

--Rob