Has anyone else considered that it's not terrorism

[Guest RobJohnstone]

How about this

 

http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/top.htm

[Guest KoR Fungus]

Someone else can address that site, which simply brings up the same exact points that you were making a few pages back. My question to you is, where is your proof of creation? You have offered only (bad) arguments against evolution, but neither this site nor anything else you've offered up offers any evidence at all in favor of creation. None at all.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<My thoughts are if one does not believe that there is a god, then one must believe that we are not equal.>>>

 

So you're saying that:

 

You believe in God and believe that all people are equal.

Therefore if you don't believe in God, you don't believe that all people are equal.

 

I would recommend that you go to your local university and retake Logic 1.

 

And citing the Bible as a source of tolerance and equality is a joke. The Bible says that your God destroyed entire civilizations for not believing in him, and people have been using biblical passages to justify torture, racism and homophobia for centuries.

[Guest EricMM]

Remember when someone said that you disbelieve logical reasons why evolution exists and believe idiocy in favor of your opinions?

 

That site is such bunk.

 

1) Archeology (sp) is not an exact science, nor is it perfect, nor is it easy. If we could magically make every single fossil ever created (which would NOT represent even a fraction of every bone ever since fossils aren't common) it would be much easier to prove evolution, but since they're all BURIED all over the damn place, they're very hard to find.

 

2) The hell do they even MEAN with "Higher Order" in their second point? Evolution is rarely huge changes. They are gradual adaptations to the environment. We evolved opposable thumbs which allowed us to be better monkeys. We evolved upright movement because we were no longer in the trees, but wandering around the plains and having a vantage point of 5 feet up instead of 2 feet up allowed us to be much more aware. if you don't think our bodies evolved as quadrapeds, ask everyone who has ever had chronic back problems how they feel. Our spines are designed to be horizontal, we changed that and now our spines get squashed. It's not pleasant.

 

Evolution is slow and imperfect but it's CLEAR. Why do all mammals seem to have 4 limbs, 2 eyes, 2 lungs, a spine, live birth, and everything else? Because we all came from the some 4 limbed 2 eyed 2 lunged creature.

 

I hope you never try to make anyone as stupid as you insist on being.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Someone else can address that site, which simply brings up the same exact points that you were making a few pages back. My question to you is, where is your proof of creation? You have offered only (bad) arguments against evolution, but neither this site nor anything else you've offered up offers any evidence at all in favor of creation. None at all.

OK dude,like I said before, you can't prove either theory, so I won't even try to prove creation, but, please don't pawn evolution on me as fact.

 

--Rob

[Guest DrTom]

please don't pawn evolution on me as fact.

Unfortunately for you, it is. Your blind disbelief of it, despite many people's better efforts to explain it to you, doesn't change its veracity, nor does it change the fact that evolution is accepted as fact among credible scientists the world over. If you want to believe in creation because of your religion, that's fine. But if you don't want us to "pawn evolution" on you as if it were fact, then don't imply that we're pariahs (or racists, even, for chrissakes) for accepting it.

 

Btw, a question about your religion (and if you don't want to answer, don't.): I believe you mentioned that you're a non-Catholic Christian, right? Were you raised in the faith, or are you born-again?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

are you born-again?

Good question, Tom. That would explain so much.

 

I can't believe it didn't occur to me.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Ug. Sorry I'm a bit late. I only have one quick thing to say. I've actually looked through that site before, and a whole lot of it is along the lines of that whole "Hitler followed evolution!" lines: Pure emotion. I mean, at one point, it said, and I quote,"If we all come from the same ancestor, we would all be murderers and cannibals by the simple act of killing a cow." Well.....yea, that would be true, if you want to take it to a fairly ridicules degree. But it doesn't prove or dis-prove anything. I don't have a problem with many creationism or anti-evolution sites, but pick one that sticks more toward facts and less towards "You evolutionary pigs are so below us! Racists! Cannibals! You are inferior!" That particular site, like KOR Fungus pointed out, is just bad. If you go too far down that road, you'll only hurt your case here.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I am not born again.

 

--Rob

[Guest Goodear]

You won't, because it's a false dichotomy. Even the Pope said that evolution has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt to be "more than a theory." The only thing with which he takes issue is the idea of an evolution of the soul, and science says nothing, nothing at all about the soul.

You know, I could care less what the pope thinks. I am not roman catholic but christian. It starts along the same lines but I believe catholics go about it the wrong way. Christians do not acknowledge the pope, atleast not the ones of which I have been around. I am not going to bash the catholic religion so I will just leave it at that.

 

--Rob

Well my mind isn't quite large enought to process that statement. My mind wants to make sense of it... but can't... hurts to much.

Like when the Pope tells you masturbation is bad, and you say "What the fuck do I care what the Pope says?" Except replace "masturbation" with "evolution" and "bad" with "good".

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I am not born again.

You didn't fully answer the question. Were you raised in the faith, and to which denomination do you subscribe? Again, if you don't want to answer, that's fine, but say so explicitly.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

i'm sorry marney, what the fuck does that have to do with anything. Do I ask you shit about your life? Riiiight

 

--Rob

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I think it has a lot to do with your arguments because they are predicated on a need to believe and a need to find some kind of confirmation of that belief. You refuse to listen to logic and you constantly try to denigrate science in the hope that this will somehow bolster your faith. You seem physically incapable of even entertaining the idea of questioning the Bible. I want to know why. You seem to lack confidence in your own professed beliefs and you're trying to make up for that by tearing down everything which, in your mind, might undermine it. To me that's a sign of the weakness of your faith, rather than its strength. You aren't willing to test it. Instead, you want to hide your faith and shelter it behind a wall of ignorance an hundred and forty and four cubits. What are you so afraid of?

 

Typically, converts have an inferiority complex and a desire to "prove" themselves in the faith. Born-again converts tend to be even more self-righteous and holier-than-thou due to the religious experience that changes their worldview. Some become evangelists for the cause. Most normal people, on the other hand, are embarrassed to share the faith with such lunatics.

 

You seem to fit this profile perfectly. Which is why Tom asked his question, and which is why I repeated it. I shall do so again now as I have explained in detail why I want to know. If you don't want to answer, instead of trying to evade the question or implying that it's irrelevant, just say so.

 

1) Are you a convert?

2) To which denomination do you subscribe?

[Guest RobJohnstone]

denomination??? I am not a convert.

 

--Rob

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Hey, Marney, you religious? Just curious. If so, what branch are you? (By branch, that doesn't mean nessessarily a denomination in Christianity. Anything from Amish to "I'll believe it when I see it" counts to me.)

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

And I hate to show up too much on one page, but about the whole Hitler being an evolutionist, here's something I picked up. (This is at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Han.../2437/nazis.htm, if anyone cares to look at that site. I'm just taking one part from this page, though, I haven't been able to see the whole site)

"Hitler's goal was the "purification" of the "Aryan race" through the elimination of "subhumans", which included Jews, gypsies, Asians, black Africans, and everyone else who was not a white Aryan. Despite the creationists claims that this was based on Darwinain evolutionary theory, Hitler's own writings give quite a different story. The ICR claims that "Hitler used the German word for evolution (Entwicklung) over and over again in his book." (ICR Impact, "The Ascent of Racism", Paul Humber Feb 1987) Like so many of ICR's claims, this one is simply not true---a quick scan of several online English translations of Mein Kampf shows only ONE use of the word "evolution", in a context which does not refer at all to biological evolution, but instead to the development of political ideas in Germany: "This evolution has not yet taken the shape of a conscious intention and movement to restore the political power and independence of our nation."

 

 

Had ICR made even a cursory reading of Mein Kampf, they would have seen a quite different source for Hitler's racist inspiration than the one they would have us believe. White Aryans, Hitler writes, are the special creations of God, the "highest image of the Lord", put here specifically to rule over the "subhuman" races: "Human culture and civilization on this continent are inseparably bound up with the presence of the Aryan. If he dies out or declines, the dark veils of an age without culture will again descend on this globe. The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." (all quotes from Hitler, Mein Kampf, online version) Actions which aid the "subhumans" at the expense of the Aryan master race, Hitler declared, were an offense against God: " It is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."

 

 

Rather than basing his racism on any evolutionary theory, Hitler based it squarely on his view of white Aryans as the favored people of God. In fact, Hitler solemnly declares that his program of removing Jews and other "subhumans" from the earth is a divine task forced upon him by the Lord Almighty: "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproductionof our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purityof our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that ourpeople may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe."

 

 

Hitler concludes: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord," adding "Compared to the absurd catchword about safeguarding law and order, thus laying a peaceable groundwork for mutual swindles, the task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission." For Hitler, removing the subhumans from earth was not a matter of biology or evolution---it was a divine mandate from God Himself, the "work of the Lord", a "truly high mission". "

 

Anyway, take from that what you will.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Yeah I wondered what he was talking about too. Hitler was a devout creationist.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Hey, Marney, you religious... If so, what branch are you?

Yeah, a little unwillingly so. Sort of Catholic. I usually go to the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception at least once a week, sometimes more often.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

denomination???

Denomination, yes, like Roman Catholic, Jesuit, Episcopal, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Quaker, Anglican, or what.

 

I didn't mention the Mormons because we've had it checked on and they are from Mars...

[Guest HecateRose]

Hell, even I knew what you meant by denomination, and I never was part of any "standard" religion

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Yeah, but you're, like, intelligent and stuff. When you talk to RobJohnstone you have to go a lot slower.

[Guest HecateRose]

Point taken

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Darn five syllable words. Stop talking all high and mighty, ladies.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

My favorite part of that site was how his "Evidence" also included a global flood. That right there should completely disqualify this.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

The whole problem with this debate is that is too sides that won't see eye to eye. But one side uses logic to prove it self and the other uses the common tatic called "Dodge Under Mind-numbing Bullshit. Assume Stupid Shit" Or "Dumbass" for short. I am not calling anyone dumb. I am calling the way of debating this dumb. To dodge all real questions and throw stupid shit that people who believe neo-Darwin(The Pope, 90% of America, big chuck of the world) are racist because Hilter used the word Evolution in "Mein Kampf".

 

The whole route of creationism is short answers as to where we came from. And it does so in story form. I mean the bible is good for historical stuff like the first three kings of the Jewish land. But for shit like the Great Flood making the Grand Cannon(when it was written 2600 BEFORE THEY KNEW THE CANNON EXISTED!!!) Is just story bullshit.(Which makes god a killer of millions because they "sinned"). And for this story to be true, everyone is related and that means everyone is doing incest("sinning" again). If Adam and Eve were the first two humans explain how everyone changed into the current races that people are?

 

Kinda off rant: You know whats odd about the Christian faith? The fact that the guy who founded it(Jesus Christ) himself made him self to be the son of god with the powers of demi god. Yet, in Roman times they blasted them form making such the notion about their gods.

 

And another quick question: Why does everyone make Christ out to be looking like a guy from England? If he was born and rasied in the area around Isreal, wouldn't he look like arabs do now? Since thats the look of people from the area?

[Guest HecateRose]

I saw a show once on the discovery channel where they tried to figure out what Jesus would look like, they studied information, such as fossils and such, from the area and made a model of what they thought he would look like, and, to say the least, he wasn't your typical looking white male

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

I'm still baffled at the "denomination? I didn't convert!" remark. Also the dragging of the "Riiiight" that I hate oh-so-much into this.

 

Idea: Let's all just say "You're wrong" and stop talking to him. I'll begin.

 

You're wrong.

 

Kotzenjunge

Finds Rob's Sig Picture Laughable. Fossils? What are those?

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Kinda off rant: You know whats odd about the Christian faith? The fact that the guy who founded it(Jesus Christ) himself made him self to be the son of god with the powers of demi god. Yet, in Roman times they blasted them form making such the notion about their gods.

 

And another quick question: Why does everyone make Christ out to be looking like a guy from England? If he was born and rasied in the area around Isreal, wouldn't he look like arabs do now? Since thats the look of people from the area?

 

First of all, Jesus was Jewish. It was Paul who founded the Christian religion as we know it. Even Peter believed that you had to be Jewish first in order to be Christian. And the Romans weren't upset because the Christians didn't worship the Roman gods. They were upset because they didn't take an oath to the Emperor. The persecutions didn't really start until Nero decided he needed a scapegoat for the fire in Rome (67 AD).

 

In the oldest known images of Jesus he was actually portrayed as a Roman (short hair, clean shaven, etc.) Regardless, he was probably white. The Greeks were the main influence in the region until the Arabs took over around 700 or so. I don't know the New Testament by heart, does it mention anywhere that he had Greek heritage? It would seem the likeliest.

[Guest J*ingus]

Supposedly, he was a direct blood descendant from David. IF true, that would make him definitely Middle Eastern in his heritage.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Wouldn't it be odd if Jesus was a midget?