Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 7

[Guest Ripper]

"And lastly, I agree with the Scoobies and SIT's turning their backs on Buffy. She was making a rash decision that they believed would end up killing them all, and in the end it might have. Buffy is no match for Caleb, hardly knows anything about him, and yet still wants to take him on without any info or research. She needed to be kicked out so she could gain a new perspective."

 

 

The only problem with the theory of research-apalooza is that they don't know when the big attack is coming. Everything in Sunnydale feels it so it must be close. They aren't blessed with the 3 episodes left thing, so they can only go on whats going on around them. Caleb finally came to town, every other living thing feels the evil and high tails it. All signs point to the big bang is coming now. So they can sit around with a bunch of girls that have never even fought or go get them field tested so they will be ready for the final battle. Buffy's actions may have been rash...but they are actually the best ones...despite the consequences. If they had reserched Caleb before, they would have found out he was a mysoginistic preacher/serial killer. They still wouldn't have known about his Glory-esque strength and the outcome might have pretty much been the same. Or they would have just sat around waiting for him and he would have come a knocking with 1000's of uber-vamps...you know, the same kind as the ONE that kicking buffy's ass. Toss them to a bunch of cereal eating, toilet clogging, kata doing chicks that aren't battle tested and you're in for a slaughter...which is probably coming now that they kicked the only person willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING for the good of the world. Everyone else is living under the illusion that there is a plan that will end with none of the SiT's losing their lives, and no one getting hurt. Well, I'm sorry but but thats not gonna happen. Caleb and company are going to keep playing rough and somebody is gonna lose an eye...(Ok, that wasn't funny but hey, I'm off my game) They are in war and there are going to be some casualities if they want to win(they are outnumbered). Buffy has been the only one playing with guts while everyone else wants to hold the girls hands and tell them its going to be ok.

 

For some reason, I still wasn't pissed at Dawn last night. She wasn't whiney when she was being ignored and kept focus. She also did what she thought the HAD to do, not what she WANTED to do...as evident when she wanted to beat the ever loving crap out of Rona a few seconds after she had done it.

 

BTW, Andrew...Spike...onion blossom....one of the great moments in Buffy History.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Whether the SIT's were justified or not doesn't matter - they still did it and I hates em for it! (Which is the whole point... DAMN FRUSTRATION! DAMN JOSS! DAMN STORYLINE!) Their deaths will be all the sweeter. Buffy shoulda kicked someones ass right then and there and say "hey, who's gonna stop me" and then everyone would fall in-line. If faith tried to flex, Buffy would all be like "Bitch, don't make me go upside yo head again".

 

Giles just got fed up with Buffys arrogance; he still see's her as the pupil and she told him that there is nothing left to be taught. He has been the one collecting all the SIT's so he probably has the best relationship with them and to see Buffy carelessly put them all on-the-line for no real reason, it hurts him. When Giles talked about sacrifices, they were not needless sacrifices. It wasn't like "let's throw em all out there and if they die, they die" it was "the balance of the world rests on this". Much more calculated.

 

Anya I can almost see, since an earlier eps. had her and Buffy going at it and Xander did get hurt. But still, that was a stretch for her to come out and just be all bitchy.

 

Xander, I can see a lil more than Anyas, because he was always in buffys corner and he was proven wrong and lost an eye for it - so that must have been a pretty big burn.

 

Dawn just doesn't make sense at all...

 

It all doesn't make Buffy getting kicked out of her own house right, though. IT'S HER FREAKIN HOUSE! Hows about all youze move?!

 

In any case, the eps. was very successful in manipulating the viewers emotions.

[Guest Mole]

Buffy was being a big bitch though. She would of led the SiTs into the Vineyard and they would of gotten their asses handed to them.

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

Yeah, I don't understand why Buffy gets kicked out of the house. Doesn't she own the place?

 

Still, I think Giles etc were somewhat justified in their caution. Buffy didnt have a plan or any way to beat Caleb. Just "Let's go fight Caleb...again". Last time they did that two girls died and Xander went all Blackbeard. Like any of the SiTs want to go through that again. Like others have said, that makes perfect sense.

 

Anya/Giles/Wood I can understand too, as that's as much reluctance to go back without some plan as pent-up anger towards Buffy for past actions (stabbing Anya in the chest, telling Giles she doesn't need him anymore, giving Wood the "mission" line, etc).

 

Willow though...I mean, I figured she'd agree with Buffy for sure. Xander's iffy because he's a Cyclops now, but Willow I figure would have agreed with Buffy. And Dawn makes no sense.

 

But generally I agree with Anya etc here. Buffy hasn't shown that she can do anything beyond get punched in the face by Caleb. I mean, when she fought big bads before, she did have a plan. Graduation Day part II definately had some good planning on the Scooby side, the big Glory fight did too. This isn't some lame Mummy Girl that doesn't necessarily need much of a plan, Caleb is a big deal, and should really be fought when they have some kind of advantage.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Buffy get's her ass kicked by Caleb only to return home to hear all about how she got her ass kicked by Caleb... by a bunch of people who's asses she could easily kick.... that's gotta fucking suck.

[Guest Ripper]

But Buffy's words were "If you want to stratagize and come up with a plan for it, then lets do it...But we need to find out what is in that vineyard" or something to that effect. She was open to, and even suggesting that they come up with a plan, but the plan should be on how to find out what is in that vineyard.

 

She didn't say, "Hey, mount up and lets go." She was ready for the plan. The others are acting like if they don't go back to the vineyard they never have to face Caleb again. Buffy was saying that in the end, Caleb is hiding something there...protecting something. And you know what...it makes sense. I still don't see what they all think is going to happen. If they don't find out what Caleb is hiding there do they think they have a BETTER shot at living. We don't know what he has with him now, but we do know that when he comes out he's gonna have a shit load of Bringers and Uber-vamps with him. Right now it is Caleb/Bringers vs Buffy/Scoobies/Wood/SiT's...the odds are in there favor now and won't be for long.

 

My main problem with all of this is that Buffy and Spike are still the only ones going out on patrol...the only ones fighting the monsters of the week while the SiT's...the ARMY that Buffy is(was) going to have to lead against the apocalypse sit at home, eat her food and second guess her. I say they need some more Bringer fights under their belts or they are just going to be one punk ass army.

[Guest the pinjockey]

What was the name of last night's ep.? I need to go find it on Kazaa.

[Guest BorneAgain]

But Buffy's words were "If you want to stratagize and come up with a plan for it, then lets do it...But we need to find out what is in that vineyard" or something to that effect. She was open to, and even suggesting that they come up with a plan, but the plan should be on how to find out what is in that vineyard.

 

She didn't say, "Hey, mount up and lets go."  She was ready for the plan. The others are acting like if they don't go back to the vineyard they never have to face Caleb again. Buffy was saying that in the end, Caleb is hiding something there...protecting something.  And you know what...it makes sense.  I still don't see what they all think is going to happen.  If they don't find out what Caleb is hiding there do they think they have a BETTER shot at living.  We don't know what he has with him now, but we do know that when he comes out he's gonna have a shit load of Bringers and Uber-vamps with him.  Right now it is Caleb/Bringers vs Buffy/Scoobies/Wood/SiT's...the odds are in there favor now and won't be for long.

Exactly. She wasn't suggesting that they blindly charge into the Vineyard, fists flying. No, the only thing that Buffy said was that they need to find out what Caleb's hiding. The SIT's seem to believe that if they just sit tight and wait that everything will turn out okay. What gets me is that the Scoobies seem to think the same thing. Didn't the events with Glory, the Mayor, and Angelus teach them that sometimes action has to be taken? And since when has the Scooby Gang cared about risk? After all both Xander and Giles risked their lives to stop Evil Willow and Willow nearly killed herself trying to bring back Buffy from the dead. It just seems like an odd 180 degree turn for them.

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

Wasn't Buffy totally backtracking once she got to the "strategize" line? I'm not sure, but I thought she basically wanted to go in, guns blazing, and then after meeting resistance she said that they could strategize.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Episode was called Empty Places, would be listed as 7x19

 

Is Caleb overshadowing The First? Seems like he's the big bad now, but it's really still The First evil

[Guest BorneAgain]

Wasn't Buffy totally backtracking once she got to the "strategize" line? I'm not sure, but I thought she basically wanted to go in, guns blazing, and then after meeting resistance she said that they could strategize.

I can't recall myself. Maybe after pinjockey or someone else downloads it, they can look at the scene and tell us.

[Guest TUS_02]

Using the whole series at a background, look at it like this...

 

When Buffy first found out about her "powers" there was no appocolypse about to happen, there was no uber-vamps there was none of this... Buffy had SEVEN YEARS to mature and grasp the whole concept of the vampire. She matured more in 7 years then most mid-aged people do their entire lives. Her strategy, while probably the right one, is not going to be listened to. Why? Because these SIT's have just found out about their power, and now the world's going to end REAL soon if they don't do anything about it. That's why there's all this second guessing going on. You remember being that age? You try grasping that concept.

 

This is great writing because both sides have great points.

[Guest Kingpk]

Episode was called Empty Places, would be listed as 7x19

 

Is Caleb overshadowing The First? Seems like he's the big bad now, but it's really still The First evil

To me, the First is using Caleb to deal physical harm to the group since it can't. It really only can cause mental harm. Caleb may be a really powerful person, we really don't know much on his backstory.

[Guest Mole]

Yes, The First is the big bad, Caleb is just one of its minions.

 

The final battle will come down to Buffy vs the First, not Caleb. Well, it should be atleast.

[The Dames 0]

What I think is absolutely fabulous about this episode is that since it's VERY open to discussion and interpretation, it'll be discussed long after the season is through. I bet it'll be resurrected once the DVD's are all out.

 

Dames

[Guest Mole]

End of Days for May 13th...sounds interesting.

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Faith deals with a time bomb and Buffy adds a powerful weapon to her arsenal in the penultimate episode, which sets up the series finale. Like King Arthur drawing Excalibur, Buffy retrieves a mystic scythe from a stone to combat evil — embodied here by the devilish priest Caleb. Since Caleb withstood the Slayer's prior assaults virtually unharmed, Buffy is surprised by his fear of the scythe and realizes the blade may give her an edge. Even with the lethal weapon, however, Buffy will be hard-pressed to slay Caleb, especially after Faith is incapacitated by an explosion. Luckily, Buffy's old guardian Angel (David Boreanaz) is in town for the climactic showdown.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I want to read...but I don't...must....resist!

[Guest Sakura]

I am starting to think Buffy is not going to actually fight the First. I could be wrong but I just don't see why they would bring in Caleb so late into the game if it wasn't to use him for the final battle.

 

They still seem to be fixed on the "The First is not something you can fight" thing and there's only 3 episodes left. I think the idea is that The First is not something that can be killed. You can't end evil. It is always going to be there just as there will always be good.

 

Normally it is supposed to be lurking in the shadows creating evil in mankind and maintaining a balance between good and evil. Buffy coming back from the dead has screwed up the slayer line, and therefor the balance of good/evil, and has allowed The First a window of opportunity to come out of it's hole and attempt to actually do something on it's own. It's the same thing that went down in Admends. Angel's return from hell allowed it to come out and try and convince him to kill himself. When it failed it went back to being dormant up until season 7.

 

I think they're going to force it back to doing it's job and staying out of their business. If they kill it there will be no more evil in the world. No more demons. No more Spike. No more Angel. No more need for the Slayer for that matter.

 

I think the final battle will be Buffy vs. Caleb and SITs/scoobies vs. Ubervamps. The SITs will defeat the Ubervamps, taking out it's army. Then Buffy will kill Caleb and take out it's ability to do any physical damage. That would leave it with no way to actually do anything other than talk and it's plan to tip the scales would be ruined. Then whatever is "for her" would somehow banish it to going back to minding it's own business, this time for good.

 

 

 

I can just totally see this ending. The First is gone from Sunnydale but there's still evil out there to take care of and Angel still has his own show.

 

I can like see the First in it's demonic form taunting her as it's being banished to the hellmouth. "You think you've won slayer?" and putting over how even though it failed there is always evil and that her job will never end.

[Guest Mole]

I want to read...but I don't...must....resist!

It is the same shit you post half of the time Youth. It is just a preview.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Oh...I still don't wanna read

[Guest Mole]

Oh okay.

[Guest Lil Naitch]

Willow though...I mean, I figured she'd agree with Buffy for sure. Xander's iffy because he's a Cyclops now, but Willow I figure would have agreed with Buffy. And Dawn makes no sense.

Xander is Willows best friend and former crush, and Dawn also had a big crush on Xander, if memory serves. I think that they upset at how he was hurt, and are therefore erring on the side of caution.

Man, come to think of it, the last time Xander really got hurt at all was waaaaayyy back in Seson 2 when Giles was kidnapped. Xander got his arm broken, but since then he's been realatively injury free.

[Guest Mole]

I believe he got hurt one other time, but I can't remember it.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Yeah, Xander's been pretty much untouched since that thing in season 2, and that wasn't even a big deal, but there might be no coming back from the eye.

[Guest Mole]

Well the show is done, so they had to do SOMETHNG to him.

[Guest Ripper]

Olaf broke his arm, the broken arm in season 2 and Ashanti stabbing him are the only times that Xander has had to go to the hospital...and they were all out patient!!!

 

Dawn's not trusting buffys state of mind was understandible, with Buffy being all bitchy at her earlier in the show when she was just trying to see if Xander was OK. Willow was hurt over Buffy's not staying by his side...like he had done for both of them before. Xander...well...the boy ain't got both eyes. Their confidence was shaken in her a little. Not enough for what happened at the end I don't think, but some.

 

The funny thing about Giles to me though is that he was actually wrong about spike and he will prove to be a ally they couldn't have done without. There were obviously other methods to curing his little trigger besides killing him. He screwed up. I think if he just owned up to it, she might forgive him more easily.

 

I would like to say how kick ass Faith was in the whole situation. She seemed to be the only one not wanting for herself to be the leader. She knows Buffy knows best but was just disagreeing with her. Then the others went all Intervention on her. I also like how Buffy didn't get all preachy and playing the blame game on Faith outside. She just accepted that if she wasn't going to be the leader, someone had to. The job still had to get done. That is what being a real leader is all about.

[Guest Mole]

I don't really see Faith much as a leader anyway. Whenever she was with Buffy in season 3, she always had Buffy/Giles tell her what to do before she went BAD.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Faith is going to lead everyone to their death and that'll teach em...at least Dawn and Rona (PLEASE!!!!)

 

Did Xander even have a cast after his deal with Olaf? Seems like it was forgotten about the next time.

[Guest Ripper]

Yeah, he had one. He had one on in "Checkpoint" when the counsel came along and got all assholish.

[Guest Mole]

He also had one in "Becoming" after the vampire snapped his arm.