Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 7

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I know that's what I was thinking...and why the very end when the demon restores his soul is one of my "holy shit" moments in the List thread.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

bump for my post to appear

[Guest DawnBTVS]

What would be the creepiest Buffy demon/villian in your opinions? I'm watching "Hush" right now and The Gentlemen still take the cake. The scene with the one Gentlemen passing by as Olivia(?) looks out is SO damn creepy/unexpected. Damn smiles...*shudders*

[Guest Mole]

Yes, the Gentlemen were very creepy. Even the cast was freaked out when they saw them on the set, they are soooo scary looking. That evil smile makes them even more creepy.

 

I HATE FX, I think they cut out the part when Spike drinks the blood and it looks he bit Anya. Xander than goes to beat up Spike. DARR.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I thought it happened earlier in the episode.

Edited May 23, 2003 by Mole

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

FX is bad like that. They even cut out the awesome slo-mo four-shot of Spike, Dru, Darla, and Angel in "Fool For Love." And all just to get in one extra commercial break...

 

Only 2 and a half weeks till the season 4 DVDs are out, and you can have all the silent antics you need, Mole.

 

I'm also going to say that, duh, of course Spike wanted his soul. It was a good swerve at the time cause we were all caught up in it, but in hindsight there's no tacit reason for him to get the chip out. Buffy writers are pretty good at that misdirection stuff.

[Guest Mole]

Yeah, I haven't seen half of the episodes of season 4. I am only watching "Hush" because I have seen it before. I am not going to watch "Doomed", I want to wait for the DVD set to watch it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Doomed is a great episode...especially the end where Spike is making his speech about getting out there and fighting demons.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Giles - "It's the end of the world"

Everyone - "AGAIN!?"

 

Hahahahhaha great line.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

The best shot of the Gentlemen is when Olivia is looking out the window at one a couple houses over...then one just passes right in front of her. I jumped the first time I saw that.

[Guest Cavi]

Refresh my memory on that, is it when Angel first got his soul back and Darla treats him like shit?

Yeah, when they are in China during the Boxer Rebellion, Angel pretends he still doesn't have a soul. Darla figures it out since he only feeds off of murderers and the like. She brings him an infant and tells him to kill it. He doesn't and flees with it.

[Guest Mole]

Refresh my memory on that, is it when Angel first got his soul back and Darla treats him like shit?

Yeah, when they are in China during the Boxer Rebellion, Angel pretends he still doesn't have a soul. Darla figures it out since he only feeds off of murderers and the like. She brings him an infant and tells him to kill it. He doesn't and flees with it.

What episode was that? And from what season?

 

My favorite line from "Hush" was when Willow said to Giles on the writing board "Hi Giles" it was classic.

Edited May 24, 2003 by Mole

[Guest Cavi]

What episode was that? And from what season?

The part with the baby and him running off is from the episode "Darla", Angel Season Two. The Boxer Rebellion stuff is shown in "Fool For Love", Buffy Season Five, as well though. The episodes were back to back. Spike-centric on Buffy, Angel/Darla-centric on Angel.

Edited May 24, 2003 by Cavi

[The Dames 0]

I LOVE the continuity of the show. In Season 1 of Buffy, Angel sees Darla for the first time in "Angel" and says "Last time I saw you, it was kimonos.", which is then shown on Angel 5 YEARS LATER.

 

Dames

[Guest Youth N Asia]

TV Guide Online Interview with Joss 5/21/03

 

[From TVGuideOnline.com]

 

Buffy Postmortem: Is Spike Dead?

by Michael Ausiello

 

As far as series finales go, Buffy the Vampire Slayer's was a doozy. We laughed, we cried, we hurled large objects at the TV in utter despair. But darnit if the show's creator, Joss Whedon, didn't leave us wanting more... closure, that is. For example, why of all the Scoobies did Anya (Emma Caulfield) have to die? And what's the deal with Spike (James Marsters), who bit the dust just days after making a date with Angel this fall? For answers to those questions and more, read on...

 

TV Guide Online: I have a bone to pick with you: When last we spoke, you claimed that "no decision" had been made about bringing Spike over to Angel next season. Then, days later, the WB announced that, well, Spike would be making his way to Angel next season. Why did you lie to me, man?

Joss Whedon: It wasn't until the last minute that it was actually decided that he was going to be a regular on the show. When I spoke to you, a) it was true that we didn't know his status, and b) he was about to die on Buffy, so the less about him being on Angel in the press beforehand, the better.

 

TVGO: Fair enough. But couldn't the WB hold off on announcing it?

Whedon: There was no f---ing way. They were very excited about James. They have a shiny blond thing to show people, and they're gonna do it.

 

TVGO: So, how do you plan to resurrect Spike?

Whedon: That's a conversation I'm going to be having with the Angel writers very soon.

 

TVGO: There's always Shanshu (the ancient prophecy introduced during Angel's first season that says once a soulful vampire fulfills his destiny, he becomes human).

Whedon: It's not quite that simple, although a lot of people have been making reference to that. But that's an interpretation, and ultimately could become the interpretation if we decide to go that way. I have some other ideas. The trick is how to bring him back without losing the integrity of what he did... the sacrifice. If it's just, "Hey, I'm back!" then that whole moment at the end of Buffy is kind of lame now. Like Buffy returning from the dead, it's going to be something that we're going to have to earn and play the ramifications of, possibly without making it so depressing.

 

TVGO: Will you pair him with a new special someone?

Whedon: I'm still trying to figure out how to bring him back to life. I don't think he's the kind of guy that would be like, "Well, that was a fun time with Buffy... " I don't think he feels a sense of resolve or resolution about the relationship. I think he feels that he was ready to sacrifice himself for her, and it was a beautiful thing, but... it wasn't like he's cured of loving Buffy any more than Angel is.

 

TVGO: Now that Buffy is free to do whatever she likes, how will you explain why she doesn't make a beeline for Angel?

Whedon: Well, I think I did in the episode. She said very specifically she doesn't want to go and find a boyfriend. She wants to go and find herself — spend some time becoming a grown-up and finding out who she is, and then she can stop to find out who fits with that. That was the point of the whole cookie dough speech. Her internal search isn't for a boyfriend, it's for herself. And then if true love fits into that, that would be the best thing ever. But if she instantly went off and attached herself to Angel, she'd be throwing away everything she'd just been given, which is her freedom. It would be the last thing she would do. Well, not the last thing. She wouldn't do it until sweeps.

 

TVGO: November sweeps?

Whedon: I don't know if necessarily it will be November, but she has stated time and again that she's perfectly willing to come on and make an appearance, assuming schedules work out. Nothing's definite, but it's as sure a shot as one could hope for.

 

TVGO: Why was Anya marked for death?

Whedon: I wanted to kill somebody, and I wanted to do it brutally and suddenly and never really pay it off. I wanted a death that was a real middle-of-the-battle death — the opposite of the Spike death, [which was] perfect, noble. And Emma had made it clear that she really was not interested in coming back. I think things with Fox weren't great and she felt ill-used — not by the show. She had a good time making the show, I think. But she was ready to move on. But it was tough [killing her off]. The last shot before we wrapped her was that shot where she gets sliced. And it's very weird to play your death and go, "Okay, I'm done."

 

TVGO: No one seemed to be too broken up about it.

Whedon: I had a lot to wrap up, so I let Xander (Nicholas Brendon) have a moment of closure about her, just enough to get him to the point where he could rejoin the group for a moment of, well, "We won." You have to get yourself to a good place if you want the show to go out on an uplifting moment, which I did. So I used shorthand.

 

TVGO: Had you known that Eliza Dushku was going to pass on the spinoff, would you have killed off Faith?

Whedon: No, I doubt it. There's a certain element where the loss becomes unacceptable for a happy ending, and the idea that she's been the primary Slayer behind Buffy, it felt like she should be in that mix.

 

TVGO: Given Eliza's decision, do you regret not making Dawn (Michelle Trachtenberg) a Slayer?

Whedon: No, I don't think Dawn was meant to be a Slayer — both mythologically and emotionally. Dawn plays a different part than that. I don't think we necessarily got to explore all the aspects of Dawn's character that I would have liked to have, because she kind of got swept up in the larger story. But being a Slayer was never one of them. That's not to say you couldn't build a spinoff around Michelle — she's an interesting actress, and the same goes for a lot of the players. But I wouldn't just necessarily take someone and make them a Slayer. I don't think that would really fly.

 

TVGO: Today is the first day of life after Buffy. How are you holding up?

Whedon: I'm doing just fine, because it's like Day 13 of trying to get my 5-month-old to sleep, so I just go from one problem to the next. (Pauses) Your sense of closure never comes when you think it's going to. It'll happen two weeks from Monday. I'll suddenly go, "Good Lord. My entire life has changed."

[Guest Cavi]

Whedon: I wanted to kill somebody, and I wanted to do it brutally and suddenly and never really pay it off.

Ouch, dude. Ouch.

 

Poor Anya

 

Cool short interview though.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Solid. I'm very excited about Angel for next year. This year was a bit of a rushed disappointment, but with the Wolfram & Hart/Team Angel union as well as the infinite possibilities they have with Spike, the universe should be ripe for storytelling. More importantly, it looks like Joss is going to be able to focus much more closely on this show next year, which should make up somewhat for the departure of David Greenwalt.

 

But it is a little odd that...

 

(And I'm putting this in a spoiler tag because, you know, it's speculation and buzz and stuff, but I guess it could possibly qualify, but I really wouldn't worry too much since it's just casting stuff...)

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

...Angel's regulars will probably be down to one woman, since Charisma Carpenter may not be coming back full-time. Angel's not the same show Buffy is and never really has been that female-centric, but it strikes me as funny that the only surviving show in the Jossverse is going to be dudes, dudes, dudes. Maybe it just means we'll get more sweet sweet dead Lilah...

[Guest Mole]

What episode was that? And from what season?

The part with the baby and him running off is from the episode "Darla", Angel Season Two. The Boxer Rebellion stuff is shown in "Fool For Love", Buffy Season Five, as well though. The episodes were back to back. Spike-centric on Buffy, Angel/Darla-centric on Angel.

I've never seen any episodes of Angel from season 2 or 3, but that is sweet they did back-to-back episodes about their past.

 

I can't wait for season 2 for Angel, I should just buy a region free DVD player, but I can't.

 

Good interview by Joss.

[Guest Madmartigan21]

I've got to disagree with you there, MadMartigan.  Spike never blatantly said that he wanted to get the chip removed in order to hurt her...just that he wanted to change.  He was upset over everything that had happened, especially the rape attempt and he had enough contempt for his own actions that he went out with the intentions of trying to be a better man. 

 

Dames

 

No he never blatanly stated it, but he more than implied it. He specifically mentioned the chip being his problem, more than once as you are about to read.

 

Yeah, except Spike said plenty of times later he went to get his soul. Even the FE in Mayor Wilkins form said asked him did he think he would just get his soul back and every thing would be fine. Him not asking specifically was just for a shock to the viewer. He wanted a soul.

 

That's right he said it LATER. As in after the insanity or lack of continuity on the part of the writers had skewered his memory.

 

Obviously Spike wanted his sould back. He knew very well he didn't need his chip removed to hurt Buffy. He had been able to hurt her with the chip all season long.

 

I am about to present evidence to the contrary that Spike "obviously" wanted his soul back. If that was his case, then why not just go the whole nine yards and become human again?

 

Yeah...they only made us think during the end of season 6 that Spike was going to get the chip out as a swerve for what actually happens.

 

The writing staff was already looking at Spike the way we would come to see him this year. He COULD NOT do bad to Buffy. The fact that he almost did sent him off not to finish her off...but to make sure the demon in him wouldn't let that happen again.

 

They made us think that because its almost directly stated. Ladies and gentleman of the jury I present my evidence from the shooting scripts. In case you think the portions which are posted below are unfarily taken out of context, links to the entire scripts will be placed accordingly. What I believe to be the most pertinent of information will be in bold.

 

 

From Seeing Red

Complete Script

 

SPIKE

Why do I feel this way?

 

CLEM

(shrugs)

Love's a funny thing.

 

SPIKE

Is that what this is?

 

CLEM

Well, I don't know. Drinking,

breaking stuff -- how's your appetite?

You been eating?

 

SPIKE

I can feel it. Squirming inside my

head.

 

CLEM

Love?

 

SPIKE

The chip. Little Jiminy Cricket,

gnawing bits and chunks.

 

Spike puts his fingers to his heads probing harshly as if he's going to gouge the chip out with his bare hands. Clem eyes him with concern.

 

CLEM

(re: Spike's head)

Maybe a wet cloth...?

 

SPIKE

Everything used to be so clear.

Slayer. Vampire. Vampire kills

Slayer, sucks her dry, picks his

teeth with her bones.

 

CLEM

(queasy)

Metaphorically?

 

SPIKE

That's how it's always been. I've

tasted the life of two Slayers. But

with Buffy...

(hating himself)

This isn't the way it's supposed to

be. It's the chip. Steel and wires

and silicon. It won't let me be a

monster. And I can't be a man. I'm

nothing.

 

Spike's self-loathing hits an all time low. Clem gives him an encouraging pat on the shoulder.

 

CLEM

Hey. Come on now, Mr. Negative. You

never know what's just around the

corner. Things change.

 

Spike considers that, his wheels turning.

 

SPIKE

They do.

(a beat)

If you make them.

 

Clem grins, slapping him on the back happily.

 

CLEM

There you go! Bright side! Chin up!

 

SPIKE

She thinks she knows me. She thinks

she knows who I am. What I'm capable

of. She has no idea. I wasn't always

this way. It won't be easy, but I

can be like I was. Before they

castrated me. Before...

(a beat)

Then she'll see who I really am.

 

Spike smiles darkly, his eyes dancing with secret schemes. He grabs a nearby duffle bag - starts throwing stuff into it. Clem totally misses Spike's sinister intent.

 

...

 

Spike roars up on his bike, loaded with his gear. He pauses, taking in the lights of Sunnydale off in the distance. He takes a drag off his cigarette, flicks it to the asphalt.

 

SPIKE

Get nice and comfy Slayer. I'll be

back. And when I do... it's all

gonna change.

 

 

 

From Villains

Complete Script

 

VOICE

You seek me, vampire?

 

Spike actually looks a bit unnerved. But he covers with his usual bravado.

 

SPIKE

You do the finger paintings? Nice

work.

 

We can almost make out something lurking in the darkness, but not quite. We only see hints of a demon tail and red, burning eyes... Glistening fangs... What little we see gives the impression of something truly horrible.

 

VOICE

Answer me.

 

SPIKE

Yeah. I seek you.

 

VOICE

Something about a woman. The slayer-

 

Now Spike's expression darkens. Anger rising.

 

SPIKE

Thinks she's better than me. Ever

since I got this bleeding chip in my

head, I haven't been right.

Everything's gone to hell-

 

VOICE

And you want to return. To your

former self...

 

SPIKE

Yeah. ***

 

The voice laughs darkly.

 

SPIKE (cont'd)

What?

 

VOICE

Look what she's reduced you to.

 

SPIKE

It's this bloody chip, not-

 

VOICE

(angrier now)

You were a legendary dark warrior -

and you let yourself be castrated.

Now you have the audacity to crawl in

here and demand restoration?

 

SPIKE

I'm still a warrior-

 

VOICE

You're a pathetic excuse for a demon-

 

SPIKE

Yeah? I'll show you who's pathetic.

Give me your best shot, Lurky.

 

VOICE

You'd never endure the trials

required to grant your request-

 

SPIKE

Do your worst. But when I win, I

want what I came here for.

(darkly)

Bitch is going to see a change.

 

 

*** The demon asks Spike, "And you want to return. To your former self..." To which Spike responds in the affirmative. Since when was Spike a vampire with a soul before that. Why would Spike answer yes to that question, when he was never like that before?

 

 

From Grave Part 1

Complete Script

 

SPIKE (cont'd)

Got any more ruddy tests, ya ponce?

I'll take anything you throw at me.

If it'll get me what I need to take

care of the Slayer, give her what's

coming to her, *** you just bring it on.

Bring on the whole--

 

*** Now obviously this was not said in the context or tone of "I'll take care of her by supporting her and making sure she gets that house with the white picket fence I know she's always wanted. Golly gee, I know this will make her love me!" It was said with an intent to show the evil he possessed.

 

 

From Grave Part 2

Complete Script

 

SPIKE (cont'd)

So, give me what I want. Make me

what I was... *** so Buffy can get what

she deserves.

 

 

*** Again, Spike was never a vampire with a soul before this. Why would he say "Make me what I was?"

 

I think I've presented some pretty strong evidence to support my claim.

 

Thoughts?

[Guest Mole]

If that was his case, then why not just go the whole nine yards and become human again?

 

I don't think he has the power to make him human. That is something the Powers to Be make, or someone with VERY VERY VERY high power. This genie dude was powerful, not that powerful.

 

Yes, Spike wanted the chip out, not his soul. I knew that was the case, but you just got the evidence to back it up. Thanks Mad.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Uh, you didn't get anything.

 

David Fury and Joss Whedon themselves have stated several times that Spike wanted to get his soul back. You can read the actual episodes either way you like, but given Spike's history, the events of season 6 and their consequences as already outlined by Dames and BPS, seeing that he wants his soul is a lot easier than you make it out to be.

 

All the things you cited, with Spike affirming himself, blathering about the chip--watch the episodes to see that it's cocksure bravado Spike talking about this, perhaps not entirely coming to terms with the fact that he knows what he really wants is a lot deeper than just the chip. We've seen this type of behavior from Spike throughout his entire tenure on the show--you get a nice, condensed version of his approach to problem solving in "Lover's Walk," and an extended version of it in his season 5 storyline, wherein he has the dreams about Buffy, thinks it doesn't mean anything, tries to solve his problems by screwing the Buffybot...it's typical Spike.

 

He wanted his soul back, if not overtly, and he knew that the chip didn't matter at this point in his relationship with Buffy. That's that as far as I see it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

What I always gathered was that the demon that gave him his soul back was granting his "true" wish cause it could see what he really wanted.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I think that Spike/soul deal still leaves it up as 50/50 for the viewer.

[Guest Mole]

I still think Spike wanted the chipped removed, not his soul. Like Youth said, 50/50 shot on what it could be.

 

Edwin, show me when Joss said he wanted his soul, not his chip out. If you show that, then I will be proven wrong.

[Guest Mole]

Who do you guys think is the best actor on Buffy?

 

I'd go with James and Alyson.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I can't say anyone other then James right now...he owned season 7.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Who do you guys think is the best actor on Buffy?

 

I'd go with James and Alyson.

James Marsters.

 

I've always thought he was a good actor.

[Guest DawnBTVS]

Sarah and James(Coming through in Season 7).

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Dawn I must say that is a hot pic of Alyson Hannigan in your sig.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Dawn I must say that is a hot pic of Alyson Hannigan in your sig.

I concur...I haven't seen that one online before.

[Guest DawnBTVS]

Dawn I must say that is a hot pic of Alyson Hannigan in your sig.

I concur...I haven't seen that one online before.

It's one of my favorite pics of her Also another fav. is the one with the zebra and her looking up(Had her in my 1st IZ sig). I'll try and find a link to the pic for you Y N' A.

 

Alyson Pic from Sig