Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 7

[Guest JMA]

I'd say Buffy started to go downhill when season four started. There was no high-school, no Angel, no Cordy, and soon no Oz. The only episode that saves season four is "Hush." Of course, my favorite season is still season one.

[Guest fazzle]

The biggest problem with post-highschool was that they started having too many "throw it at the wall, see what sticks" characters, IMO.

[The Dames 0]

Like who, Fazzle?

[Guest Ripper]

Season 4 was incredibly strong up until Hush. After that, you got "Superstar", the Faith 2-parter, arguably "A new Man" and "Restless" as the strong eps.

 

One of the things that seperated this show from others was the supporting cast. But after hush, Giles, Xander, and willow, though they did have SOME developments in their own rights, were nothing more than hanger ons there to tell buffy that things would work out with Riley. Riley wasn't well recieved because there was just too much of the guy. Angel had this mysterious quality. he would get one or two scenes in a show and disappear, always leaving you wanting more. He gradually was shoved to the forefront and it made for a great character. The Riley/Buffy relationship was automatically shoved to the front and it was all B/R all the time. It made the deepest show on television one dimensional. I still like the season a whole lot, but it did have its issues.

 

In retrospect, that was the problem with the beganing of season 5. It was all riley and buffy and thier problems until Finn got on that copter. Then we got great shows from then on out...unless you are fazzle who said that it wasn't good...but i disagree.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

2 (I started watching the show right at the start of Angel turning and it never was better than the 2nd half of this season)

3

5 (for it's 2nd half)

1

4

6

7 (couldn't even watch the whole season. )

 

I don't get how anybody could really like season 7 either. For me the show started to fall off in season 4 (though, looking back on it, that's a masterpiece compared to 6 & 7) with half the cast leaving and Joss with other things to do. Season 5 was where it became an entirely different show, though a bunch of great episodes in the 2nd half redeemed that season for me. Six and seven, I just don't get how people can favor those over the early ones. Grown up? Everybody acts like children. Character heavy? Serious? Seriously, by the time season 7 ground to a halt (about six or seven eps in, if I recall) I thought that WWE Creative had taken over the show. Complete with Buffy in Triple-H's spot for the pointless, monotonous, twenty minute promo every week "You must all listen to me now, I'm the star and I am speaking and you're all useless anyway! This is a war, people are going to die! Not in this episode, or the next, or the ten after that, but by the time Joss gets back we may be able to spare a few moments to kill Anya! Now back to me talking!" I just didn't find it entertaining, all of the old characters behaved illogically and out of character (in the minute or two of screentime they'd get each week) and the deus ex amulet at the end was the laziest writing possible. Did I mention I didn't like season 7?

[Guest Ripper]

I still don't get how people DIDN'T like season 6. I mean, it was the natrual progression and the only REAL way to deal with the events of the previous season. Dawn went from being the most important thing in the world to being just a little girl thus the want to get attention and being a whiney brat, you know like a REAL 14 year old acts. Xander and ANyas relationship...you KNEW it was a trainwreak waiting to happen, and the character traits of Xander and his growing up in a horrible home environment came to a head. Willow and her obsession with power, which contrary to what the seasons critics say did NOT come out of nowhere when Giles had been warning her about it for 4 YEARS, finally came to a head, and did so in a sensible way and followed her character traits of dealing with supreme emotion badly (she shut down when she saw the guys she knew in the AV room in season 1, lost it when she found out about the Xander/Cordiella thing, went to magic to get over Xander, tried to do horrible things to Oz and Vuruca through Magic, turned to the dark magic when Tara was brainsucked...what would she, knowing her character, do after Tara was killed in frount of her...cry and say go get him Buffy?) Buffy was taken from Heaven, and though you didn't see it, you had to see the hurt that it would cause her to finally be done with her duty and have no more fights only to be pulled back into it (her is this hell scene was heartbreaking) thus disappointing her greatly.

 

Say what you want about season six, but to call it stupid and say the characters didn't act like themselves is simply not true. You might not care for the direction the show took, but it was actually a very believable one that stayed with the true nature of the characters that had been given 5 years of growth.

 

Now season 7 was a love/hate season with very little middle ground. I personally thought that the writing and acting was too good to just look away from and every episode that Drew Goodard wrote went into among the best ever. Sure, there were some spots that weren't explained and some of the supporting characters were pushed into the background, but in the end, it came together nicely for me, if not what I really wanted. And sure, the amulet was a reach, but Spike had to Shanshu and I have no problems with that being the method.

[Guest fazzle]

Like who, Fazzle?

Riley being the most obvious, but I also feel that Dawn and Andrew were just "throw them out and hope the people like them" characters. With Andrew succeeding much more than Dawn, obviously. Plus all the SiTs were random characters just thrown in with hopes of making the people care about them with no real reason. Season 6 didn't really have any that I can think of.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

Alright, I didn't like six either. The show in the last few years just turned into this weepy, pointless soap opera where everybody was sad and issue-y and I can't stomach those sorts of shows and didn't appreciate Buffy turning into one.

[The Dames 0]

God, I hate Riley.

 

Dawn or the SiT's didn't bother me nearly as much as he did.

 

Dames

[Guest TUS_02]

Submitted before I finished the post... WHOOPS

[Guest TUS_02]

THe last 4 or 5 episodes of Season 6 leave me in awe and amazement.. kinda like Innocence (and the one before that, I can NEVER remember that), Passion, and Becomming 1 and 2. Xander is probably my favorite character in any show ever only because I see so much of myself in him (minus the whole having crushes on Praying Mantis's, becoming Hyena's, engaged to a Vegence Demon, etc...) and his development through-out the series is outstanding and I ALWAYS had a soft spot for the Willow/Xander relationship and I was teary eyed during Grave (I think that's it, the last ep of Season 6.)

 

I can honestly say that there's a Season that I don't have much bad to say about it.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

God, I hate Riley.

 

Dawn or the SiT's didn't bother me nearly as much as he did.

 

Dames

Nuts to that. Dawn, Rona, and Kennedy were far more annoying them GI Joe

[Guest Ripper]

Like who, Fazzle?

Riley being the most obvious, but I also feel that Dawn and Andrew were just "throw them out and hope the people like them" characters. With Andrew succeeding much more than Dawn, obviously. Plus all the SiTs were random characters just thrown in with hopes of making the people care about them with no real reason. Season 6 didn't really have any that I can think of.

I have to disagree about Dawn. Dawn character was planned for 2 years so we know she wasn't thrown in. I call Dawn the greatest plot device in television history. The problem was that after season 5, she really wasn't needed anymore(although I do like how she represented how much Buffy had changed ie. willing to die for her before, not willing to give a shit about her in the next season.) Andrew, I would agree with, they just threw him in. But at the same time, after all he had been through, I really couldn't expect Xander to be the all comedy all the time guy anymore. The characters had been through 6 years of death and darkness, so it is understandable that their quirkiness and carefree view of life was gone. Andrew was the one that kept that aspect of the show in(and to some extent, Anya).

 

I don't know. Maybe its because I like natural change as long as it is done in a sensible way. It is just to damn unbelievable that after all they went through, things would stay the same between the 3 of them. The went from 3 kids whose entire world was each other to 3 adults who still loved each other but developed lives of their own, and understandably so. If the show had stayed Xander pining for Buffy, Willow pining for Xander and Buffy being all agnsty with Angel, I would have not liked the show as much.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

I’m in line with Ripper on this one. Season 6 and 7 undoubtedly have ups and downs, but I’d much rather have that than another few years of high-school style Buffy. I wouldn’t be interested in the show if the characters didn’t change, if the writers didn’t take risks. Sometimes the risks fail, but sometimes they pay off huge. In the world of the show, I feel like we absolutely needed to see these characters growing up and changing, because everything’s so hyper-crazy and frequently dangerous that they’re going to grow up fast and hard. Seasons 5 and 6 are the epitome of that, as far as I see.

 

I also don’t really buy the “extra characters” argument for season 6. Definitely for season 7—even Joss has admitted that the SiTs didn’t go over nearly as well as he’d hoped—even if I think Robin Wood was one of the best aspects of the show’s final year. But not season 6. If you look there, you can see that, aside from bringing back Warren and Jonathan and adding Andrew in small supporting roles, you’ve got Clem and Rack showing up in minor roles in maybe 4 episodes each, and that’s about it. Season 6 was more about the central ensemble than…well, I’d say pretty much anything since the first season. It was just at this point that Tara, Anya, and Dawn were the supporting characters, not Cordelia, Angel, and Giles. And I was fine with that.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

I still don't get how people DIDN'T like season 6.  I mean, it was the natrual progression and the only REAL way to deal with the events of the previous season.  Dawn went from being the most important thing in the world to being just a little girl thus the want to get attention and being a whiney brat, you know like a REAL 14 year old acts.  Xander and ANyas relationship...you KNEW it was a trainwreak waiting to happen, and the character traits of Xander and his growing up in a horrible home environment came to a head.  Willow and her obsession with power, which contrary to what the seasons critics say did NOT come out of nowhere when Giles had been warning her about it for 4 YEARS, finally came to a head, and did so in a sensible way and followed her character traits of dealing with supreme emotion badly (she shut down when she saw the guys she knew in the AV room in season 1, lost it when she found out about the Xander/Cordiella thing, went to magic to get over Xander, tried to do horrible things to Oz and Vuruca through Magic, turned to the dark magic when Tara was brainsucked...what would she, knowing her character, do after Tara was killed in frount of her...cry and say go get him Buffy?)  Buffy was taken from Heaven, and though you didn't see it, you had to see the hurt that it would cause her to finally be done with her duty and have no more fights only to be pulled back into it (her  is this hell scene was heartbreaking) thus disappointing her greatly. 

But see, the problem I have with this defence of Season Six is twofold. Firstly, the Willow scenario you're talking about does indeed make sense, but that's not what ended up on screen. What ended up on screen was the utterly ridiculous unsubtle "magic crack" that tured Willow into a junkie. Why they did this when they had set up this wonderful power-obsession storyline that you have so well identified is beyond me. The magic crack effectively absolved the Willow we'd seen for six years from any blame, which hardly makes for entertaining drama.

 

The second problem is that all your other points are valid, but unfortunately were executed in a very boring, and indeed irritating way. Just because Dawn's shift into whiny brat was natural does not make it entertaining. Ditto Depressed! Buffy. Or the Anya/Xander stuff. Its not really the what of Season Six thats the problem, its the how. For me and many others, the writers delivered their messages without the wit, skill and vibrancy of previous Buffy seasons.

 

And I must say, the condemnation of all of season 1 and a lot of season 2 as throw-away episodes is highly disturbing. Buffy, as I see it, was never designed as a story arc-centric show. These so-called throw-away episodes were vital in establishing characters and themes. And most of them were entertaining to boot.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

And I must say, the condemnation of all of season 1 and a lot of season 2 as throw-away episodes is highly disturbing. Buffy, as I see it, was never designed as a story arc-centric show. These so-called throw-away episodes were vital in establishing characters and themes. And most of them were entertaining to boot.

That still doesn't make me want to watch those episodes and if the show continued to be those "throw away episodes" I probably wouldn't have continued to watch it. Because a lot of those "throw away" episodes bore me or annoy me.

 

I'm glad it became a story arc based show because that's easier to watch.

[Guest Ripper]

Hell, I still find the last scene in Double Meat Palace to be one of the most touching and well acted scenes in the shows history (with Buffy breaking down in Tara's lap) and I STILL don't like that show. I just can't watch Killed By Death because of the kickass Xander/Angel scene. It still isn't intresting. I can't watch Go Fish just for the um...the ...well...okay..what was good in that show again.

 

And to the Willow/crack thing that people have so much trouble about. That was extremely well written if a little heavy handed on the drug thing. But Tara left her. The only thing that had kept Willow from using magic to do any and everything before then was Tara(and it was set up wonderfully in season 5 and 6 that Tara was the voice of reason about the magic and Willow was the naive one). After Tara left, she hooked up with Amy and did what she wanted and when she wanted. And she enjoyed the power of controlling the people at the club. It was the most fun she had in a while. So when she discovered that it wore out, of course she would jump at a chance to feel more power. So in came Rack. It made perfect sense honestly. She was addicted to the POWER of it all and saw a avenue to get more power. Plus, that whole thing spanned 2 episodes, so I don't see how that ruins the season.

 

I personally loved the Xander/Anya dynamic in season 6. Before then they would show up, Anya would make a sex joke and that would pretty much be it. They weren't really a couple. The real coupling of the two started in the season 6 premiere and carried from there and I found them alot more intresting for it. And yes, I admit, the Dawn thing wasn't fun to watch. But once again, it magnified Buffy's unhappiness with being there which was the theme of the season.

[Guest Ripper]

And I must say, the condemnation of all of season 1 and a lot of season 2 as throw-away episodes is highly disturbing.  Buffy, as I see it, was never designed as a story arc-centric show.  These so-called throw-away episodes were vital in establishing characters and themes.  And most of them were entertaining to boot.

That still doesn't make me want to watch those episodes and if the show continued to be those "throw away episodes" I probably wouldn't have continued to watch it. Because a lot of those "throw away" episodes bore me or annoy me.

 

I'm glad it became a story arc based show because that's easier to watch.

That's definately how I feel. I mean, some of the throwaway shows worked out perfectly and were great shows on their own (The Zeppo and Dopplegangland jump to mind) but usually (especially in season two) it seemed they knew what story they wanted to tell and needed to stretch it out over a few more episodes. The character development and the contribution to the overall arch was there just to remind you of what they were going to do when they got back on track.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Side note. Two of season 1's better eps are on FX tomorrow. "Out of Sight, Out of Mind," and "Prophecy Girl "

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Hell, I still find the last scene in Double Meat Palace to be one of the most touching and well acted scenes in the shows history (with Buffy breaking down in Tara's lap) and I STILL don't like that show. I just can't watch Killed By Death because of the kickass Xander/Angel scene. It still isn't intresting. I can't watch Go Fish just for the um...the ...well...okay..what was good in that show again.

Ummm Ripper I hate to break this to you, but the Buffy/Tara scene is NOT in Doublemeat Palace. It's in the next episode "Dead Things"

[Guest Ripper]

SEE!! That show is so horrible that it is warping my mind. I was wondering why I had seen that scene so many times because Dead Things kicks ass and I have watched it more than once.

 

Well, we all make mistakes so I guess I can own up to mine. I made a mis....

 

LOOK, A BEAR!!!

 

[runs away while thread looks for bear]

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Once again proving that there is NOTHING remotly good about "The Doublemeat Palace"

[Guest Mole]

I agree with Ripper on all of that, I wish I could write more than I am going to, but I have to be at dinner at 6.

 

The one thing I disagree is that I didn't like Principal Wood at all. I just didn't like him, he should of been a bad guy of some sorts.

 

I'll get back to this later tonight.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Well there is the scene where Amy gives Willow a magic boost and the scenes with Halfrek paying Anya a visit in "Doublemeat Palace"

 

So the storyline of the season was furthered some.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

What the??? FX messed up and is showing "I Robot You Jane" again!!!

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

LOOK, A BEAR!!!

 

[runs away while thread looks for bear]

You made a bear! Undo it, undo it!

[Guest fazzle]

Once again proving that there is NOTHING remotly good about "The Doublemeat Palace"

Except the giant penis.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Are all of you getting a repeat of "I Robot You Jane" on FX right now? They showed that yesterday!

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Once again proving that there is NOTHING remotly good about "The Doublemeat Palace"

Except the giant penis.

And Spike railing Buffy against the side of the Doublemeat, though that can really fall under what you mentioned, too.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

"To read makes our speaking English good"

-Xander, I Robot You Jane

 

line just aired...felt I had to report it