Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Rudo, we're only up to the episode where they're interrogating Angelus here in Britain, and I can already see that the Beast wouldn't have worked as a whole-season bad guy. He was cool as hell, but you just can't stretch that sort of ultimate physical power villain storyline out for any long period of time. You do, you end up with Glory, who despite being a God spent nearly a whole season arsing around doing nothing, because they couldn't realistically have Buffy fight her. The Beast is far more cool for being a short-term thing, allowing us all to remember him with fondness. I rank that fight in Rain of Fire one of the best things I've ever seen on Angel, mostly for the sheer bad-assness of the Beast. And yeah, I'm all spoiled up, which means that I don't get to be surprised by Evil Cordy. On the plus side, this means that I don't tear my hair out at the sheer gheyness of her character, and instead can appreciate her evil scheming ways. And I'm going to stand up for Connor. The poor fucker is nowhere near as annoying as Dawn, and he's had much much worse shit happen to him. Let's see, born of two vampires, the mother who killed herself in childbirth, the whole being taken to the most hellish of hell dimensions and being raised by psychotic vengeance-obsessed madman thing, said madman being apparently killed by father he's been brought up to hate, having to adapt to life in real world and then being cruelly emotionally manipulated by his mother surrogate? I feel sorry for the little bastard. Anyways, his fight scenes are cool, and his scenes with Angel are good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted April 9, 2003 I don't dislike Dawn at all...but Connor fuckin' bugs me. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Well, what has happened to Dawn; she found out all her memories of life aren't true because she isn't real, her mom died, her sister died, she has no super powers and gets her ass beat all the time, has had one of her good friends died (Tara), and is just a plain old cunt. I'd say both are the same, but both are annoying as fuck. Only thing Dawn as going for her is that she can be cute, kind of like Buffy can be cute at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted April 9, 2003 What bugs me most about Connor is that he's manipulated so easily. I feel like just slapping the shit out of him and telling him to open his damn eyes sometimes. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EQ Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Hey Dames... go easy on Connor. He's one of my favorites on Angel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted April 9, 2003 You bastard...since when! Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EQ Report post Posted April 9, 2003 The sarcasm was dripping off my fingers as I typed out that post Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Oh...I know. You did that to piss me off from MILES AWAY. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EQ Report post Posted April 9, 2003 For everyone else on the board, in reality, I hate Connor with a passion and I hope they kill him off. I hated him since the first time I saw him (which was after he was already grown up) and then when I went back and watched everything in order, I hated the unborn baby brewing within Darla. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted April 9, 2003 This may sound stupid, but in a conversation that EQ and I had the other day, at the end of last week's Angel, he dropped to his knees and said "You're beautiful." Don't you think they should have gotten someone who IS hot to play that girl then? Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EQ Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Definately... especially considering the type of girls we've seen on Angel in the past Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Dawn and Conner are such crybabies...they pissed on my plans for a Conner-Annointed One swerve. It wouldn't break my heart to see them both die...at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 9, 2003 How do you guys know that her name is Jasmine? You've been SPOILERIFFIC~! haven't you? If I wanted to be spoileriffic I would say that Jasmine is... Is... Is... Shit, why can't I type spoilers? It seems as if the brass have started to use voodoo as well as spoiler tags...WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END?~! I can't believe just how dark the show has gotten. The murder of that innocent girl was just disturbing, in combination with the creepy score and slow-motion cam. Don't forget about the whole Wes/Lilah relationship as well as Fred/Gunn and Connor/Cordy which aalll are dark and fucked up. It's great to see someone not do the right thing - kinda like Giles and Ben. It really makes you take notice. Rudo, we're only up to the episode where they're interrogating Angelus here in Britain, and I can already see that the Beast wouldn't have worked as a whole-season bad guy. Say what? He was cool as hell, but you just can't stretch that sort of ultimate physical power villain storyline out for any long period of time. Here's the thing - they built him up SOOOOOOO much, he took out the whole wolfram and heart building and FUCKED UP A.I. in one of the best fight sequences in the shows history. He also beat the living fuck outta faith. The ring of fire was fantastic, everything about the beast ROCKED. And then they kill him off like he's a bit player. Dat, my friends, is whack. They could have carried the beast over until the season finale all the while building up Jasmine. You do, you end up with Glory, who despite being a God spent nearly a whole season arsing around doing nothing, because they couldn't realistically have Buffy fight her. Don't be hatin on Glory, Glory ruled house. Buffy alone couldn't beat her, but she had the war hammer and the orb thingie and buffy bot and spike and the gang - the whole season was based around the final fight - which Buffy ended up winning. They could have done the same thing with the beast. The Beast is far more cool for being a short-term thing, allowing us all to remember him with fondness. I rank that fight in Rain of Fire one of the best things I've ever seen on Angel, mostly for the sheer bad-assness of the Beast. But he was killed off so anti-climatically and they could have done a lot more stuff with him. The built him up just to have Angelus off him and then have Angel turn good - he was merely a transition, a plot device - dat's whack!. And I'm going to stand up for Connor. The poor fucker is nowhere near as annoying as Dawn, and he's had much much worse shit happen to him. Let's see, born of two vampires, the mother who killed herself in childbirth, the whole being taken to the most hellish of hell dimensions and being raised by psychotic vengeance-obsessed madman thing, said madman being apparently killed by father he's been brought up to hate, having to adapt to life in real world and then being cruelly emotionally manipulated by his mother surrogate? I feel sorry for the little bastard. Anyways, his fight scenes are cool, and his scenes with Angel are good. They need to go in deeper with Connor and the whole 'growing up in a hell dimension. Connor, to you, is fine and he will get better when faith comes. But when he starts getting manipulated by Cordy to da max he will annoy the fuck out of you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 9, 2003 The actress playing Jasmine certainly wouldn't be my first pick - but I haven't seen her act yet so I'll give her (and Joss) the benefit of the doubt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Plus, if they had someone really attractive and Angel said "You're beautiful" it wouldn't be that much of a stretch and the.. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Hypnotising power of Jasmine wouldn't get over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 9, 2003 This was a few pages ago, but I finally got it loaded and I thought it was funny. Yes, this show has gotten pretty dark. But I love shows like that, it makes them that much better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 10, 2003 Well that episode was...different. I like it though, with everyone just fallin in love with Jasmine. Fred is the perfect person to notice what she really looks like, and bah gawd is she ugly. And what is up with Jasmine killing all the Vamps and shit? I can't come up with a reason for that one. Even though she isn't all that pretty, I think that is one of the points. She isn't pretty at all, but everyone still falls for her. If that makes sense... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cavi Report post Posted April 10, 2003 I enjoyed that ep. A lot of Fred in it, so that obviously garners a <thumbs up> from me. I always get a kick out of Angel when is acting all calm and nice like he was tonight (got a laugh when he first mentioned worshipping her in front of the others). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest fazzle Report post Posted April 10, 2003 I don't understand all the Connor hate here. Sure, he isn't the best character around, but how can all the hatred go his way when Fred is RIGHT THERE? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 10, 2003 I really enjoyed this episode, but I couldn't help feel that I've seen it before - they didn't really stray away from the "everyone is infected" formula but it is all to hype up Jasmine, so it's all good. I almost forgot about the Beast for a second or two... Almost... I like Jasmine, played to perfection, and I like the fact that they used the "what is good and evil?" from the last episode and made it a theme in this one. Molestomp, I know where you live. Ok, I don't really know where you live, but when I do find out, you better say your prayers...TO JESUS... because it's gonna be rainin fire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 10, 2003 Molestomp, I know where you live. Ok, I don't really know where you live, but when I do find out, you better say your prayers...TO JESUS... because it's gonna be rainin fire. Haha, ohh noo. I actually got it from this picture, which someone had in their sig. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 10, 2003 ah t-shirt hell, Music in A Minor indeed... The Beast did it for... well, who knows? He just did it and he did it with style! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 10, 2003 The Beast was the man, and will be back! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 10, 2003 THAT'S THE SPIRIT! Just like Jesus. Where's the motherfuckin Ressurection of the beast? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 10, 2003 Jasmine, will bring him back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 11, 2003 That's what I'm thinkin, yep, that's what I'm thinkin indeed. The Beast is BACK. Y-E-P. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 11, 2003 I'm 50/50 on this new thing. While I'm not against the whole Jasmine thing, I don't know if I like it. They spent way too much of the episode with everyone being all friendly and whatnot. You knew she was going to be bad from the start...wish they would have cut the to chase sooner. The first half was pretty boring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 11, 2003 I enjoyed the first half since it was such a departure. The great thing about this episode is that it leaves you questioning the validity of Jasmine. We know she is evil because we have been taught to look at her as evil... but she hasn't done a single evil deed yet. She has been compassionate, understanding, soft and gentle. She doesn't want people to worshop her, she only wants love. Her character has been consistent which makes us doubt our preconcieved notion. This all follows along the justification Cordy gave to Connor about killing the Young Girl "What is Good and what is Evil?" and how Connor was taught by A.I. to believe what G&E are rather than find out and decide for himself. The same thing with us and Jasmine. It looks like she is doing good, she is making people happy, she has brought together Connor and Angel and Fred and Gunn and Wes - she has come to bring light to the darkness. Even though we have been taught to believe her to be Evil, is she? From 99% of that eps I'd say no. BUT. 4 Things about the show tilt us away from that. -The Man Attacking Jasmine -Angel Beating him senseless and Fred washing the shirt until she bled. -Fred seeing the "dead" face. -Angel not turning into Angelus (which means it's not true love) Just enough to place doubt in our minds about her intentions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 11, 2003 It's not about true love...it's about a moment of true happieness, so maybe the fact that he didn't change lets you know that she isn't legit. And what was with Angel wearing white? That was the weirdest part for me. 4 episodes left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 11, 2003 Actually Rudo, you got the love this wrong with Angel turning into Angelus. He loved Buffy, we know that. But he turns into Angelus when he feels TRUE happiness, not when he is in love. Basically, he isn't feeling TRUE happiness with Jasmine. However, in the episode, I think it was called "Forever", when that actress gives him that drug that makes him feel really happy and 'turned' into Angelus again. Whatever, from scenes from next week, we know that Angel realizes what Jasmine is, and looks for Fred. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
