Mark's shoveling of BS on the front page.

[Guest treble charged]

Meh, why not Albert? Isn't it better to get a fresh face on a PPV every once in a while as opposed to the same guys over and over ad nauseum?

[Guest CanadianChick]

And I'm glad they are trying something new, but I don't think that it would be more impressive for Edge to beat Albert, a big man who was on Velocity less than 3 weeks ago and was a regular on the show, rather than Matt, who was a mid-carder on Smackdown. Why not push Matt to upper-mid card?(I am saying this assuming the reason ALbert is in a match with Edge is to help elevate him). Like I said before, why work harder and push someone who isn't very over when you have someone who is getting heat?

[Guest The Hamburglar]

I don't recall where the article said that it was all well and good for Albert to get the push. It just pointed out that the reasoning behind why he shouldn't get it has been shallow and shite. Albert ain't that bad a wrestler(he sells well for smaller guys), he just isn't interesting enough. Although his T&A skits with Test were funny. Albert should have a Fat Bastard gimmick where he goes around proclaiming to be dead sexy. He can then form a stable with the almighty AL WILSON and run wild on all.

[Guest Will Scarlet]

I agree with CanadianChick. I have little problem with Albert getting pushed, but it is the fact that he went from Velocity to upper midcarder too quickly that is making me so against it. One, because it screws over those who have actually worked hard and got over, and two, because such a rapid jump will probably mean said push will fail, thus making the whole push a waste of everyone's time.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Has this push failed yet? No, so PLEASE don't jump to conclusions. Hey, I don't like Albert anymore than the rest of you do, but I look at it this way: Albert injured Mysterio. Now, does it look better for Rey to be injured by a HUGE guy (a 'hoss', if you will), or by a medium sized guy who is more or less a cruiserweight? I'd say the bigger guy. Now, Edge is fueding with Albert. Now, when Edge beats Albert at the PPV (which I'm assuming he will, which I probably shouldn't, but oh well), does it look better for Edge to get revenge against someone who is much bigger than him, or against someone who is smaller than him and he has fought countless times in tag matches over the past 2 1/2 - 3 years? Again, I'd say the bigger guy.

 

So, maybe this all goes back to everyone's hostility towards Edge, and how they don't want him to look good, or anything, but Edge stands to gain more from a program with Albert than he does with Matt Hardy.

 

Feel free to discard this and make a bunch of 'HOSS' jokes, if you wish, as I'm sure that's what most of you will do.

 

 

Oh, and BTW, am I the only one who finds it funny that AndrewTS has that 'fluffer' line in his sig, yet right below it has a picture of a girl who he has likely never seen wrestle, yet is proclaiming her as the next Women's champ? (If, by any chance, you HAVE seen her wrestle, I will gladly eat my words.)

I said a few posts back that whether or not this will fail remains to be see.

 

The size argument is the same one used by guys who support JR and Vince's point. You don't have to BIG to give a decent chairshot. And considering Albert was sucking up Velocity a few weeks ago, and Big Show has lost to EVERYONE but Brock, they aren't credible. They've just been shoved into the main event picture without any build up whatsoever. Casual fans that I've talked to don't buy them, because they've said "didn't Jeff Hardy kick this guy's ass 2 weeks ago" when he suddenly was supposed to be Brock's next challenger.

 

To sum up, Size is NOT = to credibility. By your same logic a win over Viscera or Mark Henry or BASTION BOOGER would give you more credibility than, say, Triple H or HBK.

 

Waiting for the joke about them? Sorry, that's for another thread.

 

And the fact that Edge has fueded with Matt during their tag stints gives them a HISTORY to build on. Plus they know each other well. PLUS the matches will be infinitely better.

 

So, maybe this all goes back to everyone's hostility towards Edge, and how they don't want him to look good, or anything, but Edge stands to gain more from a program with Albert than he does with Matt Hardy.

 

"Everyone's hostility." In my case it's "HOSStility" thank you. And the Edge-hate is just a vocal minority. I think his character is blah, his mic skills need improvement, and his selling is spotty. You can say much the same thing about RVD, but I like them both. RVD more than Edge, though.

 

Yeah, Edge stands to gain a lot. He beats the hairy guy that everyone feels is a total joke. Oh, wait...nevermind. Albert's being built up for Taker. So it's a foregone conclusion that A-Train'll win or at least look strong. So he gains nothing. And Edge has been telling his Edgeheads he'll be going for the title soon. That sure as hell isn't now. A fued with Matt would have moved him further up the card regardless of the outcome of the blowoff, and could have pushed Edge further towards the big spot.

 

As for Gail, Eat up. I've downloaded video clips of her matches, and she'll mesh well with Molly in my opinion, although I prefer Molly's face wrestling style. I haven't seen tons of full matches since I have a slow connection, but I have seen some. And I said "future" not "next." Please learn how to read and comprehend, and not misinterpret. For example, Angle is a future 3-time WWE Champion (if you count the Show's title and the pre-split title as equal in status). However, until Sunday we don't know for certain if he is the NEXT WWE Champion.

 

And I can carry on serious discussions without jokes. However, humor helps many of us fend off the horribleness of the WWE's current direction.

[Guest treble charged]

Trying to figure out how Vince McMahon thinks isn't worth the trouble. He has his reasons for wanting to push Albert, whether the general public agrees with him, or not.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Trying to figure out how Vince McMahon thinks isn't worth the trouble.  He has his reasons for wanting to push Albert, whether the general public agrees with him, or not.

Okay, so you are saying that Vince has his reasons for pushing Albert. Thus you are admitting that was his decision to do so without a legitimate reason for doing so. Thus, you disagreed with the article, and are admitting I am right.

 

And if the general public doesn't agree...you know, the ones who buy tickets and PPVs, smarks and marks alike--don't agree, then it's a failure. He needs to give them what they want or find away to get what he wants over, or he'll lose more money and more fans.

 

Thank you, drive thru.

[Guest treble charged]

The size argument is the same one used by guys who support JR and Vince's point. You don't have to BIG to give a decent chairshot.

 

I never said that. However, you're telling me that to a normal fan, seeing Edge beat Matt Hardy is a better career move than him beating Albert? I don't buy that. They're both midcarders, and Edge is, theoretically, at least, higher up in the card them both of them. Sure, Matt is more over, but him losing to Edge does him no good, while if Albert loses to Edge, no one really cares. Personally, I think that an Edge win over HBK would do more for him than a win over Big Show would, so it's not like I'm buying into the old 'size = credibility' scheme.

 

Plus they know each other well. PLUS the matches will be infinitely better.

 

Well, duh.

 

Yeah, Edge stands to gain a lot. He beats the hairy guy that everyone feels is a total joke. Oh, wait...nevermind. Albert's being built up for Taker. So it's a foregone conclusion that A-Train'll win or at least look strong.

 

By 'everyone', do you mean this board? Have you talked to a lot of 'marks' and asked them what they think? A lot of people on this board may think he's a 'joke', but please don't speak for every wrestling fan, ok. And besides, if Albert is made to look strong, and Edge still gets the win, how does that not help Edge?

 

And I said "future" not "next." Please learn how to read and comprehend, and not misinterpret. For example, Angle is a future 3-time WWE Champion (if you count the Show's title and the pre-split title as equal in status). However, until Sunday we don't know for certain if he is the NEXT WWE Champion.

 

Big whoop. I don't see how that either hurts my argument or helps your's. And, I don't understand the second part of this. Do you know for a fact that Angle's going to win on Sunday?

 

Okay, so you are saying that Vince has his reasons for pushing Albert. Thus you are admitting that was his decision to do so without a legitimate reason for doing so. Thus, you disagreed with the article, and are admitting I am right.

 

Where did I say Vince didn't have a legitimate reason? All I said was that we didn't know what his reasons were. I fail to see how this wins the argument for you, too.

 

And if the general public doesn't agree...you know, the ones who buy tickets and PPVs, smarks and marks alike--don't agree, then it's a failure. He needs to give them what they want or find away to get what he wants over, or he'll lose more money and more fans.

 

I very much doubt that people will base their entire decision to order the PPV on the fact that Albert is wrestling on the show. I don't necessarily want to see Albert wrestle on the show, but I'm still going to watch it. Just take a piss break while he's on the TV and save yourself the trouble of watching him.

 

Hey, like I said, I'm not Albert's #1 fan, but some people are just SO blinded by the product today that they have to find something negative in everything. All I'm saying is just wait until after this blows up (if it does) before bitching about it.

[Guest treble charged]

Also, one more thing. Where did you find these Gail Kim matches? I'm interested in seeing her work, as well.

[Guest CanadianChick]

TC, your talking like Edge is going to win for sure. What if Albert wins to give him momentum to face Taker? Sure, it'd be a waste of half a year of building up Edge, but you never know, right?

[Guest dreamer420]

Mark's shoveling of BS on the front page

So much for having your own opinion I guess.

[Guest treble charged]

Losing a match isn't always the end of the world. Hogan lost at WrestleMania and became the biggest babyface in the company. Mick Foley lost the HIAC match vs. the Undertaker, and came out of that a bigger star than he ever had been. Now, I know that Edge isn't anywhere near as over as Hogan and Foley were/are, but it is possible to look strong/great while not actually getting the victory.

[Guest bob_barron]

I agree- all the commentators have to do his build him up and put him over in the losing cause and he'll be fine.

 

Look at Stone Cold- he became the biggest face in the company by losing

[Guest CanadianChick]

I don't mind Edge losing really, its Albert winning and being pushed into the upper-mid card/main event in a matter of three weeks. I find that absurd. Its not really the Albert part i mind, its the ridiculously fast push. Its very Big Show-ish.

[Guest Kingpk]

I still don't get why they're (planning to) put Albert against Taker when Big Show THREW HIM OFF THE SIDE OF THE STAGE, "INJURING" HIM. I mean, isn't the next logical (whoops, the dreaded "L" word. I'll let Vince get the dictionary for that one) step be to have a Show-Taker feud?

 

I mean, why just toss Albert in there?

[Guest dreamer420]

I don't mind Edge losing really, its Albert winning and being pushed into the upper-mid card/main event in a matter of three weeks. I find that absurd. Its not really the Albert part i mind, its the ridiculously fast push. Its very Big Show-ish.

After 3 years of jobbing to everyone and their brother had to eventually lead to a push for Albert. Personally I think he should have been fired after T&A broke up, but after sticking with the WWE that long and paying his dues the guy did deserve some kind of push.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Meh, why not Albert?  Isn't it better to get a fresh face on a PPV every once in a while as opposed to the same guys over and over ad nauseum?

God, I can't believe people still make this arguement anymore.

 

New talent is only worth pushing if it's talent that people *want* to see pushed. Albert has been in the WWE for what? Three years? I can't remeber a single time in this period when he was even marginally over, or the fans showed any interest in seeing him pushed.

 

I've never wrestled on a WWE pay per view before, but I doubt they would be entirely interested in booking me in there, even if I am technically "a fresh face."

 

"I still don't get why they're (planning to) put Albert against Taker when Big Show THREW HIM OFF THE SIDE OF THE STAGE, "INJURING" HIM. I mean, isn't the next logical (whoops, the dreaded "L" word. I'll let Vince get the dictionary for that one) step be to have a Show-Taker feud?"

 

You'd think that, wouldn't you? According to Meltzer's ridiculously convoluted explanation:

 

Matt was supposed to get the push against Rey/Edge.

Albert was supposed to get the push against Taker next year.

Vince moved to have Albert get Matt's push against Rey/Edge, while Matt got Albert's match on Velocity.

 

So I guess we're supposed to believe that part of the "plan" to have Albert face Taker was to have Albert continue wrestling on velocity? Also, continuing on that train of thought, since Albert got Matt's push against Rey/Edge, shouldn't that mean that Matt get's Albert's push against Taker, seeing as it was a _direct_ swap in pushes?

 

This keeps making even less sense the more they try to explain it. Way to go, Dave.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"New talent is only worth pushing if it's talent that people *want* to see pushed. "

 

You could have stopped right there and you would have already won the argument.

[Guest Takedown]

I think the bottom line that we should all be angry about is that Albert cannot put on a better match with Edge as Matt Hardy (or various other Smackdown superstars) could. Throw out "power wrestling", throw out what kind of style he has. The plain fact remains that a Matt Hardy vs Edge match at a Pay Per View will always be more entertaining to watch than an Albert vs Edge match. It's just not fun watching him wrestle, and added with the fact that he's been on the secondary show not doing much but beating up cruiserwieghts and jobbers, thus not making ANYONE care about him, the marks who watch to see their favorite face win won't be entertained either. If they want to push Albert, fine go ahead, but don't just shove him into the uppercard when there are people that are better fit for that spot. Someone who has proven charisma and wrestling skills. The title of that particular artcile shows itself to be pointless, "Albert isn't awful" No he's not awful, he's just an average big guy. Why put an average person in the uppercard when you could have someone better? Matt has been in matches nominated for MOTY, Albert has not, and it will be highly unlikely that he ever will be.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

This is WWE.

 

The question of who can put on a better match is not an issue with them.

 

What should be of issue to them is the fact that Matt is a more over heel than Albert.

 

But hey, RVD is at the World so who the fans cheer and boo has no bearing on their booking anymore I guess.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Mark's shoveling of BS on the front page

So much for having your own opinion I guess.

Hey, that's my opinion. And Mark set out to try to prove something, and failed miserably. Not a single point he's made about Albert other than his selling ability is a viable explanation for why Albert is supposedly worthy of this push.

 

I've simply asked for someone to show me this arguments actually stacking up and making sense, and maybe to provide reasons of your own. All I've gotten is "he's big," "sells well," and "okay for a big man." Although an "okay big man" is a euphemism for "I've seen far far shittier wrestlers."

 

Palumbo isn't doing anything, was more recently in the midcarder role, has a decent look, sells well, and has a far better workrate. Sure, he's smaller than Albert, but other than that, why isn't he more suitabl--

 

Oh yeah, he's not a WWE creation. Scratch that.

 

Treble: I asked a casual fan today his assessment of Albert. His response? "SHAVE YOUR BACK!! SHAVE YOUR BACK!! He's gay."

 

Another, CASUAL fan mind you, said "he sucks" which is a less wordy way of saying he agrees with us.

 

And Albert may not lose to Edge, since Vince wants him built up. And since Vince hasn't reasons like mic skills, good workrate, credibility or anything to back it up, I can't fathom what those reasons could be. Whatever they are, they likely aren't good.

 

Big whoop. I don't see how that either hurts my argument or helps your's. And, I don't understand the second part of this. Do you know for a fact that Angle's going to win on Sunday?

 

I was explaing the difference between "next" and "future." You claimed that I said Gail was the "next WWE Women's champion." I said "future" and not "next." Future as in "at some point at a later date." I didn't say Angle was going to win on Sunday. He could, so he isn't a definite "next WWE champion." Try to comprehend, please.

 

As for those video clips of her, it's right on her site: http://www.lafelina.com. There isn't a great deal there, but it's enough to conclude she can hang quite well with the WWE women who can wrestle.

 

Go here for some more, general information: http://www.thesmartmarks.com/forums/index....=1&t=22028&st=0

 

And you've yet to prove that Albert is deserving, just that Vince thought he was for some mysterious reason that no one here and not even you can figure out. That's not convincing in the least. I doesn't prove the article in question to be sensible, either.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I don't mean to caught up in an arguement over something that doesn't really reflect your arguement anyway, but when has Matt been involved in a MOTY this year?

 

The idea behind putting Matt in this angle turns me off, not because he doesn't deserve it, but because he's been booked to look like a joke for the past few months and suddenly having him pin Rey and then injure him the following week wouldn't change that. He got squashed by Lesnar and Show, get destroyed by Steiner at the pay per view, and then got thrown through a wall by Lesnar. It's not as if he's had the best showing and while having him snap on Rey would make sense, I think they've killed any chances of raising Matt above enhancement talent because all they ever seem to want to do with him is have him put over others.

 

I still think Edge should have turned on Rey to split up that tired team and give Edge the heel turn he's needed for the past six months.

[Guest AndrewTS]

This is WWE.

 

The question of who can put on a better match is not an issue with them.

 

What should be of issue to them is the fact that Matt is a more over heel than Albert.

 

But hey, RVD is at the World so who the fans cheer and boo has no bearing on their booking anymore I guess.

True, but I discussed the better aspects just to just try to cover all bases.

 

And while whipping out **** affairs means nothing to the WWE, when a wrestler puts on matches that bore the crowd and produces total apathy, than that's bad. If they aren't cheering the face on or booing the cheating heel then there's a problem.

[Guest treble charged]

I never attempted to show that Albert was deserving of his push, I just wanted to point out that him wrestling a PPV match isn't the end of the world, and that Edge benefits more wrestling him at Armageddon than he would wrestling Matt Hardy. The only way that I can think of where this would not be the case, would be in Matt and Edge had a ***** match that completely over shadowed anything done in the WWF over the past few years, something which I don't see happening.

[Guest Takedown]

Well okay, he was in TLC II, which was one of the choices for 2001 MOTY on WWF.com. I know it's overrated and overplayed, and was pretty much just a big series of sick bumps and spots, but the fact remains that he was in a MOTYC. Albert will never be, gimmick match or not.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I don't mean to caught up in an arguement over something that doesn't really reflect your arguement anyway, but when has Matt been involved in a MOTY this year?

 

The idea behind putting Matt in this angle turns me off, not because he doesn't deserve it, but because he's been booked to look like a joke for the past few months and suddenly having him pin Rey and then injure him the following week wouldn't change that. He got squashed by Lesnar and Show, get destroyed by Steiner at the pay per view, and then got thrown through a wall by Lesnar. It's not as if he's had the best showing and while having him snap on Rey would make sense, I think they've killed any chances of raising Matt above enhancement talent because all they ever seem to want to do with him is have him put over others.

 

I still think Edge should have turned on Rey to split up that tired team and give Edge the heel turn he's needed for the past six months.

a) I think that he was referring to MOTY of previous years.

 

b) the thing is, that is the exact same problem with Albert. Albert has been treated like a joke, wrstling jobbers on Velocity and such. The whole thing is unrealistic with Albert, althoug I do see your point with Matt

 

c) A heel turn would have been refreshing. It'd give new dyanmic to his chracter.

[Guest AndrewTS]

I don't mean to caught up in an arguement over something that doesn't really reflect your arguement anyway, but when has Matt been involved in a MOTY this year?

 

The idea behind putting Matt in this angle turns me off, not because he doesn't deserve it, but because he's been booked to look like a joke for the past few months and suddenly having him pin Rey and then injure him the following week wouldn't change that. He got squashed by Lesnar and Show, get destroyed by Steiner at the pay per view, and then got thrown through a wall by Lesnar. It's not as if he's had the best showing and while having him snap on Rey would make sense, I think they've killed any chances of raising Matt above enhancement talent because all they ever seem to want to do with him is have him put over others.

 

I still think Edge should have turned on Rey to split up that tired team and give Edge the heel turn he's needed for the past six months.

Matt's not been in a MOTY although we've seen when he's put up against other decent workers he can put on good matches. Although, they've put him against guys like Rikishi, Undertaker, and other guys which aren't conducive to good matches for ANYONE! He's had **-*** star matches.

However, the matches he'd had a chance to have have outshined Albert's. But ability is moot, like Bps said.

 

He's more over than Albert, IN SPITE of getting squashed. That in and of itself is questionable as to why he's been made to do that. However, this would have been a step towards making him more credible--instead he gets shunted down to Velocity. And someone who stays over can survive even a bad streak of being squashed and made to look bad.

 

The Edge heel turn is another possible route they could have taken, but that's moot. However, it seems that are we agreed that there are far better ways they could have handled this than to go the Albert route.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I never attempted to show that Albert was deserving of his push, I just wanted to point out that him wrestling a PPV match isn't the end of the world, and that Edge benefits more wrestling him at Armageddon than he would wrestling Matt Hardy.

 

How would Edge benafit from facing a guy no one has cared about in his three year run in the WWE? Matt Hardy is not a top priority for WWE Creative, but he's at least got the destinction of being disliked by the fans to the point that they would enjoy seeing Edge beat him. So even in the "he's the lesser of the two evils" sense, Albert doesn't work.

 

The only way that I can think of where this would not be the case, would be in Matt and Edge had a ***** match that completely over shadowed anything done in the WWF over the past few years, something which I don't see happening.

 

As bps21 just pointed out, match quality has little to do with this. What's important is whether Edge, or the WWE in general, benefits from pushing Albert, and in the end, they don't. Like I said before, I don't think either Matt or Albert should have gotten this push, because it's on too short of notice, but certainly giving Matt a push is more sensible than giving Albert one, simply because Matt has gotten himself over.

 

It's not the end of the world, but it's another wasted opportunity by the WWE and another terrible wrestler that no one wants to see getting a push. It's not catastrophic, just another reason why this company is falling appart.

[Guest AndrewTS]

I never attempted to show that Albert was deserving of his push, I just wanted to point out that him wrestling a PPV match isn't the end of the world, and that Edge benefits more wrestling him at Armageddon than he would wrestling Matt Hardy.  The only way that I can think of where this would not be the case, would be in Matt and Edge had a ***** match that completely over shadowed anything done in the WWF over the past few years, something which I don't see happening.

If Edge had a heel big man opponent that was built to be fed to him, and he took Hardy's spot, I wouldn't care.

 

Edge is going to be facing a heel big man opponent that was thrown into the mix in a snap decision. And that same heel big man opponent is being groomed to be fed to Taker. So Edge will probably lose. He'll likely get his heat back the following Smackdown, but he'll likely lose. To Albert. And although he should be fine since I don't think the WWE thinks his heat will evaporate, Edge has done nothing to really capitalize on the build up that HE has gotten. So they'll likely use him to build up Albert. The fans have largely been apathetic to Albert, so this more likely will hurt Edge. And the build up out of nowhere will cause fan backlash, and hurt Albert in the long run.

 

Oh, and opposed to the ***** match that Albert and Edge will put on?

[Guest CanadianChick]

Edge has done nothing to really capitalize on the build up that HE has gotten.

 

What do you mean by that?