Seperation of Church and State

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Salon.com is part of the leftist media, and since these quotes incriminate Pat Buchanan undeniably, they should be ignored.

 

-- Rob.

[Guest JMA]

I find Buchanon to be just another simple hate-monger. He hates gays, liked segragation, thinks women should be second class citizens, and wishes everyone was the same as him. Truly a dispicable human being. BTW, Bill Press rules.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

You know, I was gonna say something about "Don't even bother continuing", but, quite frankly, I find this whole thing hilarious after a while. He says something, doesn't back it up, it's challenged, he declares it propaganda, you back up the source, he calls you gay, childish/15, hypocritical, blind, hellbound, etc. I'm just waiting for him to try and call someone a yak.

 

Oh, and, if I may, completely at random, flip to a page in a Buchanan book, The Death of the West, pg 88. Honestly, I'm just opening the book, at random, and grabbing a paragraph on page 88.

 

"Millions of Western women now share the feminists' hostility to marriage and motherhood. Millions have adopted the movement's agenda and have no intention of getting married, and no desire to have children. Their embrace of Marcuse's Pleasure Principle, thie tours of duty in the sexual revolution, mean marriages put off. And, as our divorce and birthrates show, even the marriages entered into are less stable and less fruitful. In the depopulating nations of Europe, even in the old Catholic countries, use of contraceptives is almost universal. Contraception, sterilization, abortion, and euthanasia are the four horsemen of the "culture of death" against which the Holy Father will inveigh to the end of his days. The pill and condom have become the hammer and sickle of the cultural revolution."

 

If you think I just made this up, or stole it from a propaganda site, than, by looking at the next page, I happened to find "Political Correctness is cultural Marxism", which is one of your quotes.

 

Now, considering that I randomly grabbed a paragraph, I'm not going to attack this full force, as I don't know what he's going on about. However, at one point, he says contraception is one of the Four Horsemen, and the condom is part of the hammer and sickle of our little death culture.

 

I'm sorry, with STD rates in general nowadays, that's just insane. And kind of frightening, because I really did just pick out the page at random, and that managed to pop up? I think his callousness to life threatening diseases could be one of the 10 things I hope you disagree with.

[Guest JMA]

I wonder how Bill Press keeps from throwing up on Buchanan every day. What a crazy bigot.

 

[Guest bob_barron]

Rob E, isn't it bedtime? You are like 15 right?

 

--Rob

This is coming from the same guy who whined about people calling him names.

 

Don't be upset that someone much younger then you made you look like an idiot

[Guest Ace309]

Bob, it's clear that Johnstone can't debate. I think the thread stands as evidence of that.

 

("The thread is liberal propaganda.")

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Salon.com is part of the leftist media, and since these quotes incriminate Pat Buchanan undeniably, they should be ignored.

 

-- Rob.

Okay then, I'll give you the link where I found the rest of my quotable quotables that weren't Salon.

 

Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting, a group that researches for bias in newsmakers (and, being an MSNBC co-host, Pat would fall under that group quite nicely.) Since media bias is such an important topic to you, why don't you go check it out?

 

Their complete list of Buchananisms is at:

http://www.fair.org/current/buchanan-bigot.html

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

JotW:

 

I wasn't being serious, I was replying as Rob would.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Jobber:

 

FAIR is an evil leftist organization that is comitted to the proliferization of Cummunissm in the United States of America, They Are evil liberals and they want to have me killed with their desth rays. Damn fair. Damn them all. Damn them to hell. Damn them to fucking hell bitches bitches Tatu is evcil. Biiiiitch!

 

(I typed most of this with my eyes shut and really fast)

 

and I am kidding, I love Tatu!

[Guest JMA]

The perfect punishment for Buchanan would be for him to share an apartment with gays, liberals, blacks, feminists, and atheists. Say, can we get him to be the replacement of the next Real World cast member kicked out? Just imagine it...

 

Teen #1: "This is the story..."

 

Teen #2: "...of six average people..."

 

Teen #3: "and one hard nosed conservative..."

 

Teen #4: "...living in one apartment."

 

Teen #5: "To find out what happens when people..."

 

Teen #6: "...stop being polite..."

 

Pat Buchanan: "...and start being real."

 

Hilarity follows.

[Guest hardyz1]

I'm ashamed to share the beautiful state of Pennsylvania with RobJohnstone.

 

This is an early candidate for Thread of the Year. And it's gonna take something big to overtake it.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Teen #3: "and one hard nosed conservative..."

Stop calling Buchanan a conservative. He hates most of the main stream conservatives like Cristol, and Barnes. Who he says hijacked the Weekly Standard.

 

By the way Fair and Accuracy is a liberal group. It doesn't mean anything here, I just felt like mentioning it.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

You know, I was gonna say something about "Don't even bother continuing", but, quite frankly, I find this whole thing hilarious after a while. He says something, doesn't back it up, it's challenged, he declares it propaganda, you back up the source, he calls you gay, childish/15, hypocritical, blind, hellbound, etc. I'm just waiting for him to try and call someone a yak.

 

Oh, and, if I may, completely at random, flip to a page in a Buchanan book, The Death of the West, pg 88. Honestly, I'm just opening the book, at random, and grabbing a paragraph on page 88.

 

"Millions of Western women now share the feminists' hostility to marriage and motherhood. Millions have adopted the movement's agenda and have no intention of getting married, and no desire to have children. Their embrace of Marcuse's Pleasure Principle, thie tours of duty in the sexual revolution, mean marriages put off. And, as our divorce and birthrates show, even the marriages entered into are less stable and less fruitful. In the depopulating nations of Europe, even in the old Catholic countries, use of contraceptives is almost universal. Contraception, sterilization, abortion, and euthanasia are the four horsemen of the "culture of death" against which the Holy Father will inveigh to the end of his days. The pill and condom have become the hammer and sickle of the cultural revolution."

 

If you think I just made this up, or stole it from a propaganda site, than, by looking at the next page, I happened to find "Political Correctness is cultural Marxism", which is one of your quotes.

 

Now, considering that I randomly grabbed a paragraph, I'm not going to attack this full force, as I don't know what he's going on about. However, at one point, he says contraception is one of the Four Horsemen, and the condom is part of the hammer and sickle of our little death culture.

 

I'm sorry, with STD rates in general nowadays, that's just insane. And kind of frightening, because I really did just pick out the page at random, and that managed to pop up? I think his callousness to life threatening diseases could be one of the 10 things I hope you disagree with.

You know, I thought it pointless to continue this arguement because there is no way I can win at 12 against one, I find myself backed into a corner more times than none. I will comment on this quote though. Buchanan was talking about how we are not populating ourselves like other nations or religions are. Example, (btw, I do not have the book in front of me but i will find some links after I write this post to try to uphold this) the average children born in america per women now is 2.3 or something to that affect. Since we had nothing to back up the baby booms of yesterday, our population is declining, as well as most europeon countries. The only nations that seem to be increasing is nations under islamic faith. Most islamic countries do not use birth control, nor have they had a sexual revolution. They have stuck to old world values and have an average rate of 6 children or so. If you think about it, this could cause a problem to the rest of the world in the future. While their population increases while others decrease, they inturn would need more land to live on. No one will just give them land, they will take it. You can see how this will become a problem considering that as the stats go today, they will overpopulate us in 100 years or so. Today alot of these nations are hostile as it is (iraq,iran,PLO,libya). Imagine how hostile they could be with the acual power to take us out man to man. Along with birth rates going down, average country age is going up as well. Today the highest country's average age belongs to japan with something along the mid-40's. I believ ours is in the mid 30's. Now because of the baby boom periods, if the average age is going up, and so many poor people in america, what percent of our population will be working, and what percent too old to work? So once again, we are not populating ourselves quick enough, the country is getting older, as well as the world. So the point is a country as large and as powerful as ours probably couldn't survive under those conditions. That is why buchanan spoke against not being married, using birth control and such. Because of things like sex before getting married, gay population on the rise, abortion, birth control, and sterilization, we cannot survive and the next generation or the generation after that will not know america or the world as we know it today. As for abortion, why do it anyway, there are tons of great couples out there who cannot have children due to medical reasons who would love to open their doors to a child or more. It is also immoral to kill a living human, even if it hasn't come to "full form"yet. So I hope I cleared up what buchanan was talking about here for you. I would like to close by saying this sexual revolution we started experiencing around the late 60's is a bad thing and it just adds to more things that make our society look more roman. Remember Caligola? Later

 

Cite:

 

http://www.coe.int/t/e/social_cohesion/pop..._-_Volume_I.pdf

 

--Rob

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

So what's the solution using that logic? Breed like rats? Overpopulate ourselves and deplete our own resources out of fear of a third world menace whose only "advantage" is sheer numbers?

 

That means nothing against a highly mechanized and specialized military. You can take 1000 people armed with sticks and obsolete weapons, and they will lose to the 100 trained marksmen with machine guns and assault rifles every single time. We're not going to look around us in a few years and suddenly find ourselves with a small population, and boatloads of raging arabs approaching.

 

Besides, we have a higher birth rate than mortality rate, so out population is growing as it is. For someone that dislikes things like welfare and social security, how in the hell do you expect to react to a three-fold increase in birth rates, which is basically what you're proposing to "keep up" with the third world. Eliminating (or reducing) the use of birth control, and contraceptives would lead to AIDS and other STD outbreaks that will completely negate the efforts made to curb those problems. The idea is asinine.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

"That means nothing against a highly mechanized and specialized military. You can take 1000 people armed with sticks and obsolete weapons, and they will lose to the 100 trained marksmen with machine guns and assault rifles every single time. We're not going to look around us in a few years and suddenly find ourselves with a small population, and boatloads of raging arabs approaching."

 

The fundimental islamics have prove they can take out more than 6,000 people by sacrificing only 24, and if that is the logic they will use, with people willing to give themselves to "Allah" while using our own technology against us. It also didn't help for Clinton to give balistics technology to hostile korea, who knows if they would sell that to islamic fundamentals. You can see where this may be a problem.

 

"Eliminating (or reducing) the use of birth control, and contraceptives would lead to AIDS and other STD outbreaks that will completely negate the efforts made to curb those problems. The idea is asinine."

 

Practicing safe sex could be a solution. Hell maybe get checked up before you go have sex, you and your partner. If people were smart about it, we would not have such high std rates. As for AIDS, it can be somewhat controlled sexually by using these tactics but it can also be spread by blood transfusions and such so using these tactics wouldn't work as an absolute.

 

--Rob

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

In the 9/11 scenario, populations are irrelevant anyway, it's madmen killing themselves and bringing as many innocent people as possible with them. Them having more people or us having more people doesn't matter.

 

As for the second point...

 

"A man means a girl in a bar. They have a few drinks, a nice conversation, one thing leads to another and they head back to his place. Then he says 'excuse me, Susan, but before we go any further I insist we go to the doctor and get ourselves tested for STDs.'"

 

Talk about romantic and spontaneous..let's be realistic here. There's no stopping sex. NONE. It's been the human race's thing for all of existence, so it might as well be as safe as possible, with as few surprise children as possible. And yes, safe sex is a solution, but that totally contradicts the quasi-point regarding population you made earlier...so which is it? Less disease, or more kids?

[Guest RobJohnstone]

"Talk about romantic and spontaneous..let's be realistic here. There's no stopping sex. NONE. It's been the human race's thing for all of existence, so it might as well be as safe as possible, with as few surprise children as possible. And yes, safe sex is a solution, but that totally contradicts the quasi-point regarding population you made earlier...so which is it? Less disease, or more kids?"

 

Maybe if susan wasn't a whore you gave it out on the first date, barely knowing the dude, they would have time to get tested. That's just my point, why not get to know someone before sleeping with them? Just a thought. Could also be described as safesex. Probably could lower the rape victims in this country.

 

--Rob

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Sure could, but it's not very likely that that would happen that way. People hook up, and they have sex, there's no stopping that. Might as well have as much on the market as possible to keep another unwanted kid in the world, or another carrier of disease in the population. Besides, what does this have to do with the original population argument?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

JotW:

 

I wasn't being serious, I was replying as Rob would.

Call it the hour that I was replying, but for some reason I actually thought you were Rob replying to me. O_o***

 

Besides, I've had enough people go on about Salon being part of the liberal media before that I was holding that as a Trump card. Darn you and your sarcasm for making me pull my Trump card early!

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

By the way Fair and Accuracy is a liberal group. It doesn't mean anything here, I just felt like mentioning it.

Then they obviously wouldn't have much to complain about, by the picture of the media landscape those on the other side paint for me.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

why not get to know someone before sleeping with them? Just a thought. Could also be described as safesex. Probably could lower the rape victims in this country.

For many reasons. One of which is because you can't control how people will act in these situations. Such as, "people will have sex for reasons other than to make a baby. One of these situations may include pleasure."

 

I could "get to know" someone for years and then find out after the sex finally occurs that they actually have an STD and they conveniently forgot to tell me.

 

A condom could, COULD be a lifesaver in that situation. And condom's aren't 100% foolproof either, so I don't see people going extinct anytime for the expense of the condom industry.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

why not get to know someone before sleeping with them?  Just a thought.  Could also be described as safesex.  Probably could lower the rape victims in this country.

For many reasons. One of which is because you can't control how people will act in these situations. Such as, "people will have sex for reasons other than to make a baby. One of these situations may include pleasure."

 

I could "get to know" someone for years and then find out after the sex finally occurs that they actually have an STD and they conveniently forgot to tell me.

 

A condom could, COULD be a lifesaver in that situation. And condom's aren't 100% foolproof either, so I don't see people going extinct anytime for the expense of the condom industry.

I was just explaining what buchanan stated in that paragraph. It's just a theory, who knows what will happen. Wouldn;t it be better though for people to get to know each other, go to the docter, get checked up and then have sex. I mean since lives are now on the line, that seems to be the only smart thing to do. Don't you think?

 

--Rob

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Wouldn;t it be better though for people to get to know each other, go to the docter, get checked up and then have sex. I mean since lives are now on the line, that seems to be the only smart thing to do. Don't you think?

It would be nice also if people were more truthful and honest.

 

Unfortunately, that won't happen anytime soon either. And while sex was more taboo in the past, that definitely doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Sure, there was nothing absurd these days like 15 year old moms and the like, but I still don't know what can be done about it.

 

Law and politics does what it can (such as rape laws, age of consent, etc) but the only way you're going to go back to The Good Old Days is by either making a time machine or changing things into some kind of Orwellian society. Thought Police ahoy.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Well I guess if people want to risk their lives by not getting a check-up, or by not knowing their partner, they deserve what they get. Ignorance and Stupidity will be their downfall.

[Guest Ace309]

I was just explaining what buchanan stated in that paragraph. It's just a theory, who knows what will happen.

 

I love how the backpeddling starts as soon as your position looks shakey. "No, see, this position I'm defending isn't MINE. It's Buchanan's. Do not interpret my defense of it as a... defense... of it."

 

We have people who do that in philosophy debates. They're usually the same people who insist that full logical refutations are simple bashing, and that simple bashing constitutes a strong argument. We call them freshmen.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

If you look at how this started, that is what I was doing.

 

"I will comment on this quote though. Buchanan was talking about how we are not populating ourselves like other nations or religions are."

 

You see

 

--Rob

[Guest DrTom]

The fundimental islamics have prove they can take out more than 6,000 people by sacrificing only 24...

Presuming you're talking about September 11th, it was more like 3000 and 19. Anyway, Israel showed they could send quite a fre million Arabs running for the hills (sand dunes?) with a force of less than 10,000. So yes, the industrialized military will beat the savages with sticks and rocks if they actually meet on a real battlefield.

[Guest Brian]

The counter to that is Vietnam though.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Indeed.

 

--Rob

[Guest The Hamburglar]

If the crazed Islamic expansion that Rob ever predicts ever comes to fruition(pure bollocks I know), you would simply sit back and watch as a combination of China, Russia and India crushed them back down. America is on a different landmass for fuck's sake. That's what separates America from previous empires, its both big, productive and very far away from anywhere else. I firmly believe that the next serious geo-political event will occur in Asia between Asian nations. Who can seriously challenge America on a geographical level? Canada? Brazil, Mexico? Americans don't need to populate shit, the powerful will always hold sway over the multitude.