I never noticed until tonight...

[Guest BoboBrazil]

I thought this would be about RVD no selling the half crab after being in it for like a minute by immediately doing kicks and running.

[Guest Mole]

I never thought RVD was good or bad. I disagreed with him being main event talent though. This just proved it to me.

 

X-Pac puts over people now though.

First off, anyone who has Ja Rule in their sig can't be taken TOO seriously. Secondly, RVD should me main eventing if he is built up properly, which could be done with no problem. Third off, X-Pac used to put people over, then beat them again at a PPV.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I thought X-Pac was well known for using the win on Raw method. Where he would lose on the PPV with a few hundred thousand, then the next night on Raw with millions watching win a rematch in what turned out to be the real blowoff.

[Guest TheGame2705]

First off, anyone who has Ja Rule in their sig can't be taken TOO seriously. Secondly, RVD should me main eventing if he is built up properly, which could be done with no problem. Third off, X-Pac used to put people over, then beat them again at a PPV.

First off you proved to me you're as big of an idiot as I thought you were....if you read the sig, it's a diss on Ja-Rule an ad for somewhere else....secondly, if RVD should be built in the main event than The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels should too, but I see alot of complaining about those two. Thirdly, X-Pac put over AJ Styles who has no kliq affiliation whatsoever and put him over in an interview along with others.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

No Undertaker hasn't been in a good match in a long time and HBK just isn't as entertaining as he used to be.

[Guest TheGame2705]

But I thought it didn't matter if they had really good matches as long as they were over with the fans?

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

I've thought over the last few weeks that RVD hasn't been looking too motivated. I don't blame him though. He's the most over face on the Raw roster and he's been thrown into the craptacular tag division while the ME continues to wallow in filth.

 

RVD is just another example of someone getting over when it wasn't in company plans so they pulled the rug out from under him.

I agree with you 100%, WWE is making RVD loose his smile but as unmotivated as he is he still gets #1 babyface pops and still entertains me.

[Guest El Satanico]

But I thought it didn't matter if they had really good matches as long as they were over with the fans?

But Undertaker and HBK aren't over that much. Undertaker like HHH gets pops for his entrance, but then the crowd dies on him. HBK just simply isn't over that much.

 

Neither are anywhere near as over as RVD so where's your point?

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

I wouldn't say that Undertaker is nowhere near over as RVD. Some people like to overestimate RVD's popularity. He gets a decent pop when he comes to the ring, they pop for his two or three moves he does every match, but do they really care about him? I wonder if anybody, outside of ECW fans, really care about RVD.

 

He's over, but he's not carry the company over. You know when somebody's ready to be elevated. He's not as over as Rock in 98, Austin in 97, Bret Hart in 92, or Shawn Micheals in 95. He was that over back in the summer of 2001, but that boat has sailed.

 

They should turn him heel, he's always be more popular when the fans aren't supposed to cheer him.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

I just thought of something that I'm sure many of you have thought before, or just flat-out KNOW:

The commentators don't put over RVD's flashy moves properly.

 

Think about it. In ECW, Joey Styles used to reiterate the fact that most of the flips and spins were to add velocity to the move, AND to one-up his opponent by pretty much saying "I can do all this flippity-floppity shit, AND kick your ass at the same time." What does he get in WWE? "What an unorthodox wrestler."

 

Just saying...

 

RVD's promo's aren't that good because, honestly, what does he have to work with? He mostly gets 30 seconds, or to just chime in with "I'm R-V-D" at the end of an interview with him and Kane. You can't really be that good by doing that. Besides, he's always been better at the wiseass promo's. The promo's he did in ECW with Sabu and Fonzie were pretty good ("**sneeze**HAKUSHI" - RVD; "Bless you" - Fonzie).

 

RVD just needs some motivation. Stick him an ANGLE with Lance Storm, and let them both go all-out, even if only for 6 minutes tops. Guaranteed that the matches would be at least fun to watch, if not all that good.

 

And as for X-Pac not putting anybody over...you're right. Sean Waltman did not put anybody over during his last year in the WWF/WWE. But the moment he got to TNA, what did he do? Put on a pair of good matches with AJ Styles, and put Styles over both in promo's and in the ring.

[The Dames 0]

And as for X-Pac not putting anybody over...you're right. Sean Waltman did not put anybody over during his last year in the WWF/WWE. But the moment he got to TNA, what did he do? Put on a pair of good matches with AJ Styles, and put Styles over both in promo's and in the ring.

Not to mention put over Low-Ki by actually apologizing to him on camera for comments he made the week prior when trying to look like a bad ass and then telling him he was his favorite X Star.

 

Dames

[Guest The Hamburglar]

RVD is shite. Nuff said. Wait, actually, I do want to know what this "charisma" thing is. Is that the whole thing where RVD never gives any indication that a win or loss means anything to him? Is it the part where he is unable to work an entertaining storyline with anyone? Is is the way in which no heel facing him can work up any heel heat because the stupid fuck won't sell or make decently-timed comebacks? Charisma, what a strange quality.

[NYU 0]

RVD is shite. Nuff said. Wait, actually, I do want to know what this "charisma" thing is. Is that the whole thing where RVD never gives any indication that a win or loss means anything to him? Is it the part where he is unable to work an entertaining storyline with anyone? Is is the way in which no heel facing him can work up any heel heat because the stupid fuck won't sell or make decently-timed comebacks? Charisma, what a strange quality.

I hope we're not talking about the RVD/Benoit SummerSlam match there, because that's only been done a thousand times. Benoit was SO not over by that time that he could have had a returning Steve Austin in the Crossface for 10 minutes, and nobody would have given a fuck. If fans don't care about a guy, 1 wrestler really can't make them care. As for entertaining storylines, when was the last time RVD really had one ? If you want to call this tag team with Kane a storyline, I think it's pretty damn entertaining. But if we're looking for a match storyline, that was September against HHH. Fucking 5 months ago was the last time RVD had a storyline, and guess what - I thought the promos there were pretty damn entertaining too.

 

RVD has charisma, as seen in ECW, but it will never be seen if Vince refuses to allow it to shine.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

RVD was worse in ECW. The extra stalling made him a worker of sheer heinousity. Yes, the RVD/Benoit match didn't work because Benoit wasn't over and not at all because the crowds don't care jack shit about anything RVD does other then his routine crappy offense. RVD/HHH was not entertaining, it too was boring, and not just because of Triple H. Van Dam's promos are diabolical. Him being champion would be no better than Triple H. Balls to politics, its shittyness that irritates me, and RVD has that in spades. Vince hasn't done anything to RVD, its just that RVD's act is now being exposed for the stale bore that it is.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

And as for X-Pac not putting anybody over...you're right. Sean Waltman did not put anybody over during his last year in the WWF/WWE. But the moment he got to TNA, what did he do? Put on a pair of good matches with AJ Styles, and put Styles over both in promo's and in the ring.

He's putting people over cause this is kind of his last shot right now. He's toasted his WWE bridge and if he wants to stay known to U.S. wrestling fans he has to go to TNA and do jobs when he needs to.

 

I doubt he walked in and said "ready to job."

 

I couldn't stand Pac his last couple years in the WWF, all he did was go over on Kane and Buh Buh, and anyone else over 300 lbs. It got to be a joke after a while.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I think his face character's pretty stale, honestly. He's got a type of anti-hero charisma to him, where if he's a cocky heel, he'd be much more over than as the Cool Guy face. Tagging him with Kane is absolutely killing his heat, though. The fact that they're feuding with the heatless Storm/Regal team just compounds it.

[Guest NoCalMike]

When RVD is given something important and meaningful to do he is plenty over. When you are a singles wrestler thrown together with Kane to form a tag team that basically doesn't do anything, of course people aren't gonna care. RVD makes me beg of the question, why the hell did they get rid of the I-C title, which helps elevate mid-carders into contenders?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

RVD does suck. Most people here are just in denial about it. Sure, he has a unique style... but he doesn't change or mix things up, just doing the same spots over and over again. Not to mention the fact that he doesnt seem to know how to sell properly (Edge gets crucified here for not selling a shoulder injury, but RVD slides) I'm sure he's fun to watch live, but he hasn't impressed me with his in ring work in a looooong time.

 

What I don't understand is the pure hatred for HHH's ring work but love for RVD's. HHH is slow and lumbering... but at least he's pretty crisp when he executes basic moves. RVD, while fast and agile, looks incredibly sloppy to me. HHH is as slow and lumbering on the microphone as he is in the ring, but he is far superior to RVD, whom I refer to as the George W. Bush of mic workers. He comes off sounding like an idiot. The only time I've ever been impressed with RVD on the microphone was his nice tirade after his match with Lance Storm (another bad match between the two) at Barely Legal

[NYU 0]

I love how people here state opinions like they're facts. Personally, I think RVD is one of the best wrestlers on the RAW brand today. Just because his moves aren't technically sound doesn't mean that his moves aren't good. If it brings the fans into the match and basically has a purpose, then it's successful. Benoit could do every single arm bar in existence, but it will all suck if no one gives a god damn

 

.....HHH's moves are crisp ? Since when ? Sure, maybe he could do the Pedigree and that high knee pretty well, but what else ? That tag match was awful last night and that can be pretty much attributed to Triple H. That Rumble match against Steiner ? That wasn't crispness you saw there, but staleness. HHH has sucked in the ring for nearly a year now and, in my opinion, is in no way better than RVD. Besides HBK, go over all the *** and up matches HHH has had. I can give you a pretty lengthy list of RVD *** matches....including against the Undertaker, who HHH wrestled in the Worst Match of 2002.

 

And by the way, selling is EXTREMELY overrated. If a certain body part is being punished in order to bring the match to a logical conclusion, then sure, it's relevant. But if Benoit (yes, the Summerslam match again) works on RVD's arm for the entire match, but the match ends with a Five-Star, then selling is pretty much irrelevant. It doesn't add to the finish, but takes away from the match with a whole bunch of rest holds that mean shit. Take last night with RVD/Storm. Storm hit the Half-Crab and worked on RVD's leg for that one time, then nothing else. Why sell it continuously if it doesn't fit into the flow of the match anymore ? People are pretty hard on wrestlers for not selling, but selling a body part for a whole match doesn't mean a whole lot if it doesn't factor into an ending.

 

I find RVD great. I think Booker T sucks. Does this mean I'm in "denial" over what others think ?

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Take last night with RVD/Storm. Storm hit the Half-Crab and worked on RVD's leg for that one time, then nothing else. Why sell it continuously if it doesn't fit into the flow of the match anymore

Forget continuously, he could start by selling it at all. As soon as he got out of the half-crab, he got up & ran off the ropes, w/out so much as a shaking of the leg.

[Guest geniusMoment]

The key to liking RVD is simple: Do you like spot wrestling?

I am not saying RVD is as bad as Sabu but lets face that spot style was what got him over in ECW, mainly his matches with Sabu and The Eliminators.

I enjoy spot wrestling, hell I own almost every ECW tape so I don't just enjoy spot wrestling its my favorite type of wrestling.

RVD just can't go all out in WWE, watch his match with Bam Bam from 1998 when he won the television title, its just one great spot after another.

All I need to be happy is for The Eliminators, Sabu and RVD to all be in the same promotion.

[NYU 0]

Take last night with RVD/Storm. Storm hit the Half-Crab and worked on RVD's leg for that one time, then nothing else. Why sell it continuously if it doesn't fit into the flow of the match anymore

Forget continuously, he could start by selling it at all. As soon as he got out of the half-crab, he got up & ran off the ropes, w/out so much as a shaking of the leg.

.....so ? Storm didn't lead up to the Half-Crab with a few chop-blocks or quick stomps to the leg or something. It was a move out of nowhere, so Storm didn't hit it on a weakened leg. He slapped the half-crab on a perfectly strong leg. So when RVD got up, the effects weren't that bad. Maybe he could shake the leg a little, but I don't see where the big sin in all that is.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

>>I love how people here state opinions like they're facts. Personally, I think RVD is one of the best wrestlers on the RAW brand today. Just because his moves aren't technically sound doesn't mean that his moves aren't good. If it brings the fans into the match and basically has a purpose, then it's successful. Benoit could do every single arm bar in existence, but it will all suck if no one gives a god damn<<

 

He repeats the same moves over and over and over again. When I first saw him, I thought it was awesome. Now, several years later, I'm just not all that amazed when I see the rolling thunder. Sorry

 

>>.....HHH's moves are crisp ? Since when ? Sure, maybe he could do the Pedigree and that high knee pretty well, but what else ? That tag match was awful last night and that can be pretty much attributed to Triple H. That Rumble match against Steiner ? That wasn't crispness you saw there, but staleness. HHH has sucked in the ring for nearly a year now and, in my opinion, is in no way better than RVD. Besides HBK, go over all the *** and up matches HHH has had. I can give you a pretty lengthy list of RVD *** matches....including against the Undertaker, who HHH wrestled in the Worst Match of 2002.<<

 

HHH isn't exciting in the ring. I'm not a pro HHH fan. I can't stand the motherfucker. But I am just as entertained by his matches as RVD's. And Undertaker/HHH worst match of 2002 as well as RVD's multiple *** matches? I love how people here state opinions like they're facts.

 

>>And by the way, selling is EXTREMELY overrated.<<

 

Yes, selling is EXTREMELY overrated... when it applies to a smark darling like RVD. But damn everyone else to hell if they do the same thing

[NYU 0]

Again, I just don't care about selling. Whether it's RVD, Edge, or Angle doing the non-selling, I don't care. It just doesn't factor into my interest.

 

And the RVD/HHH/*** theory, I believe, isn't just my opinion. The HHH/Taker match was practically universally hated while the RVD/Taker match was thought to be pretty decent, while I thought it was better than average. I'll admit RVD's style is probably an acquired taste but I pay attention when he wrestles, and that's all that matters to me. I maintain my opinion that he's better than nearly every guy on Raw (excluding Jericho), and I think the ragging on him for not selling is pretty friggin ridiculous.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I am an old school mark. I believe the best part of a wrestling match is the story that that match tells. And if you can't learn the art of selling, in my opinion, the story just isn't as interesting or realistic. That's why selling is such a big deal to me. I don't HATE RVD. I just find him incredibly stale. I think they should turn him heel, teach him how to throw a good fake punch, develop a new moveset, get him a manager that can get real heat on the mic and see where it goes from there.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Selling's not important?

 

Are you more of a spot wrestling fan, then? Because if a guy's not selling, then there's really no point to any wrestler using any sort of strategic attack, nor is there a reason for anyone to a frogsplash or piledriver when a clothesline or a dropkick would do.

 

If so, cool, that's your prerogative, but I too watch wrestling for the stories and the character work, and how a wrestler acts during a match physically is one of the biggest revelatory keys of what essentially amounts to a theatrical-style performance. If no one acts like what's happening hurts or matters, what's the point?

 

As far as RVD goes, I used to enjoy watching him, but I get tired of the same spots strung together in generally the same order. His matches seem to follow a pretty dull formula lately, and regardless of whether or not he's motivated or if being involved with Kane is sucking him down, I just haven't enjoyed seeing him. I used to tune into Raw just to see RVD; now I don't. Until he gets a character shift or starts changing things up, I don't think I'm going to get interested again.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Complete continuous selling is perhaps a little over-rated, yes, but RVD doesn't sell period. He has no idea in how to pace a match and isn't even a good spot machine. His offense is stale and his strikes have always been pathetic. There is no longer anything remotely interesting in his matches, and this has nothing to do with how he's been booked. And although I think Booker is heavily over-rated as a worker he's still leagues above RVD.

 

And really, final word on the Benoit/RVD Summerslam match. One of the competitors went on to have numerous good to great matches chock full of crowd heat and hasn't stopped since. The other has not. Who's to blame for the poor quality of the match-up?

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I'm sick to death of him, and have been for a while. I have to bring up the benoit match, because it's the best example of how bad a wrestler rob really is. Just made benoit's offense look like shit, but that's the problem with a top rope finisher. When he first came into wwe, he improved dramatically, but is back to his craptacular ecw style now. I'll certainly admit lack of motivation is a huge factor, as with all the raw guys. Storm, regal, the dudleys, christian etc have become shells of their former selves, and it's not entirely their fault.

[Guest Brian]

He never improved. He cut-back. He had to wrestle his long match in a condensed form with less spots to blow. And it helped hm out drastically.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I personally think RVD is OK, but i see where a lot of people get annoyed with his work. I love psychology and proper selling in a match. RVD is a good bumb machine but he cant see for shit. I dont care if LAnce Storm didnt previously work on his leg before he put on the half crab, but he had it locked in for a pretty long time. Can RVD at least limp just a tad or favor his leg a little bit instead of frigggin immediately running to the ropes for the Rolling Thunder and jumping all over the place. Another thing, he does the same exact spots in the same damn exact order......it gets really old really quick. For instance RVD has to do that jumping top rope kick at least 2-3 times in the same match. Can we get a little variety? And, the enzigiri miss into the reverse kick has to be done in EVERY single match. YOu can bet your life that these moves will be included in an RVD match. Rolling thunder, standing moonsault splash, enzigiri miss into reverse kick, 2 0r 3 top rope jumping kicks, standing reverse jumping leg drop, and of course the catch the leg into leg lariat.........he needs to incorporate some variety and learn how to talk on the mic. I know everyone here hates HHH, including me, but, at least when hes motivated he incorporates psychology and sells well in a match for his opponent. Did you guys ever think that WWE head people see what RVD really is and dont wanna put their title on a guy like him until he shows variety or improvement instead of the universal "HHH is holding him down" for every talent that doesnt get pushed?