May 5th

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Hey guys, you wanna hurt them?

 

Ratings only matter if you have a Neilsen box. So just stop going to live shows, and stop buying those PPV DVDs and those Best Of _____ collections they put out, no matter how much Best Of Bret or Best Of Mysterio may interest you.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I know DH, which is why I said "The rest of this thread should be used to discuss means of getting our point across to the WWE. We have one month to plan and we have enough smart people here to think of some really effective means of protest."

 

The workers won't do a thing. If they haven't been able to mass together and form a union after 20 years ESPECIALLY after the death of Owen Hart then they are too afraid and selfish to do anything now.

 

There are several things we can do to get our point across:

 

-Email, Call and Send Letters to the WWE (it won't be very effective but it will open a line of communication and at least present our point). This can include wrestlers, writers, etc.

 

-Email, Call and Send Letters to the WWE shareholders and sponsors. We can make light of recent WWE scandals with GGW and the Katie Vick incident. This may not be very effective but it still is pressure.

 

-The more people involved, the more effective it will be. Even if we get 10 people on this board, there are probably 10 people on 10 other boards who agree - if not more than 10. If they can convince their friends, family, etc. to take action. This could come in the form of letters saying "I have stopped watching the WWE" - if the WWE gets 100 of these then they might blink. That's a start. That's better than putting our heads in the sand.

 

-The WWE does monitor messageboards, something can be done in this regard.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Do you think they have the Killer Angle, know it, and just simply refuse to pull the trigger on it?

 

This isn't as simple as putting the belt on one guy and strapping a rocket to his back. If that was the case, GBerg could have saved WCW.

 

If the answer was right in front of them (like it was with WCW) and they just refused to act to maintain status quo, that's one thing. But in this case, I think they're trying everything they can.

[Guest Downhome]

I know DH, which is why I said "The rest of this thread should be used to discuss means of getting our point across to the WWE. We have one month to plan and we have enough smart people here to think of some really effective means of protest."

 

The workers won't do a thing. If they haven't been able to mass together and form a union after 20 years ESPECIALLY after the death of Owen Hart then they are too afraid and selfish to do anything now.

 

There are several things we can do to get our point across:

 

-Email, Call and Send Letters to the WWE (it won't be very effective but it will open a line of communication and at least present our point). This can include wrestlers, writers, etc.

 

-Email, Call and Send Letters to the WWE shareholders and sponsors. We can make light of recent WWE scandals with GGW and the Katie Vick incident. This may not be very effective but it still is pressure.

 

-The more people involved, the more effective it will be. Even if we get 10 people on this board, there are probably 10 people on 10 other boards who agree - if not more than 10. If they can convince their friends, family, etc. to take action. This could come in the form of letters saying "I have stopped watching the WWE" - if the WWE gets 100 of these then they might blink. That's a start. That's better than putting our heads in the sand.

 

-The WWE does monitor messageboards, something can be done in this regard.

I'm sure WWE ALREADY gets 100 letters from people saying that they have or will stop watching, that is nothing new. Also, sure people in WWE may read message boards but if they haven't done anything by now after reading some of the stuff that goes on, nothing that is said on them in the future will change their minds.

 

The fact is that the net fans make up a MINUTE percentage of WWE's fans. We on the net may feel important, but when it comes down to it, we are not. There are millions out there in casual viewer land who watch the show as it is, enjoys it, and that's enough for them. Untill you can get the casual viewers to stop tuning in (those with "the boxes") and you can get them all to stop going to the shows, and untill you can get them all to stop cheering for certain things, nothing will change.

 

Of course those in WWE will not do anything, they are afraid to loose their job, and you can not blame them. I still think this...

 

...untill a company rises up and is actual COMPETITION for WWE, nothing will change as many of us want. Many people, even if they were not fans of the company, never realized how much WCW truly meant to the industry, even at the times when it was at it's worse.

 

I'm all for getting something done, but petty things such as these will not work.

[Guest Downhome]

Do you think they have the Killer Angle, know it, and just simply refuse to pull the trigger on it?

 

This isn't as simple as putting the belt on one guy and strapping a rocket to his back. If that was the case, GBerg could have saved WCW.

 

If the answer was right in front of them (like it was with WCW) and they just refused to act to maintain status quo, that's one thing. But in this case, I think they're trying everything they can.

I think had they not f'd up the WCW vs WWF vs ECW angle, we would not be in the posistion we are in now. We have almost all of that old WCW talent, it's just, we have them too late. That angle could have been huge, could have been a success, and could have helped the industry be on top for many years to come.

 

This doesn't have anything to do with anything really, I'm just saying, lol.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Maybe, but you can't go back really. Blame Bagwell for getting the most invincibly over angle in the history of man and sticking a knife into it's Achilles Heel.

 

With WCW, the answer was easier:

 

1997: Hey guys, stop pushing Hogan!

1998: Hey guys, stop pushing the old men!

1999: Hey guys, stop pushing Nash!

2000: Hey guys, ditch Russo quick!

2001: Aw fuck it....

 

Shit like Piper, Hogan, and Flair should never be main eventing in 1999. WWE started heading down this path quickly with Hogan's month-long title win, but quickly came to their senses and started doing it right when they put Hogan in the midcard.

 

With WWE, the answer isn't so clear. They have nearly every friggin' piece of talent, and could sign almost whoever they please. The angles are rather limp, but that's a downside of the creative team. Rather than spending big money paychecks on Nash and Goldberg, they might want to go seek out some of the people who used to be helping out on the Creative end. And I don't mean Russo.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I'm sure WWE ALREADY gets 100 letters from people saying that they have or will stop watching, that is nothing new.

 

So they will get 100 more. That makes 200.

 

Also, sure people in WWE may read message boards but if they haven't done anything by now after reading some of the stuff that goes on, nothing that is said on them in the future will change their minds.

 

Have they read anything like what Brian is proposing? Have we (those who want change) ever did something like this?

 

The fact is that the net fans make up a MINUTE percentage of WWE's fans. We on the net may feel important, but when it comes down to it, we are not.

 

Then it's time to test that theory.

 

There are millions out there in casual viewer land who watch the show as it is, enjoys it, and that's enough for them.

 

Look at the rate of decline DH. Look at the numbers. House shows are being cancelled because they don't have enough sales to cover the cost. For two straight quarters they have posted a LOSS on their balance sheets and in their annual report. If the casual fans are happy then why is this happening?

 

Untill you can get the casual viewers to stop tuning in (those with "the boxes") and you can get them all to stop going to the shows, and untill you can get them all to stop cheering for certain things, nothing will change.

 

They are tuning out - or are you blind to the ratings drop too? "Nothing will change" if you don't force change either.

 

Of course those in WWE will not do anything, they are afraid to loose their job, and you can not blame them. I still think this...

 

I can blame them - they are spineless cowards. All it would take to force change is for them to say to Vince before a Wrestlemania or Summerslam or big PPV "We are not going out to perform until you do this.."

 

...untill a company rises up and is actual COMPETITION for WWE, nothing will change as many of us want.

 

That company will never rise up in the WWE monopolized world - it's up to their fans to get change.

 

I'm all for getting something done, but petty things such as these will not work.

 

No you're not. You're perfectly content with the WWE insulting your intelligence, giving half-assed effort, and simply not caring about its fans because your low standards allows you to.

[Guest Downhome]

Do not tell me what I am or am not. I would love a change, better storylines, more exposure for certain people just as much as any of you people.

 

You can do what you want, but a boycott of net fans is not the way to do it. I do not think you'll get many casual fans to do so, simply because they do not take this shit as serious as many of you guys do.

 

It's up to those inside of the industry to get things on a better track. Both those in WWE, and those in other indy feds and the such.

 

I really do want a change, trust me. I do however feel it's slowly starting to change, but this is where we disagree, and is why I've started to like the product now, more than I have in 1-2 years. It will take hundreds of thousands of people to ever even get Vince's attention, not 100-200, those types of numbers mean nothing.

 

I respect you for your desire to attempt to get something done, but it's not up to you. No matter what you say, HHH will still be in his posistion. Hell, he'll more than likely end up owning part of the company one day. Again, untill those in the industry decide to do something, things will not drasticly change as you want. Let me toss this question out there, for everyone here...

 

...what exactly would you like to have happen? What do you wish to gain by doing what you propose?

 

I'm not trying to start anything, so do not take it like that. I am seriously asking this question, and it's a question that needs to be answered by all, if you want to even think about doing anything.

 

What is your ultimate goal?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

You know, look at the era:

 

* They have some over guys, but they have a lot of stupid angles

 

* There's a war going on and people really don't care about pro wrestling right now.

 

* Money is being lost when it really shouldn't be

 

1991 was a lot like this, too. By the time 92 came around, they did a good crowd for WM but Hulk's retirement didn't happen, Ric Flair only had a brief stayover, and people were losing their interest in Hulk. In 93, well let's just not talk about WM 9.

 

It took freakin' YEARS, but they finally managed to phase the old guard out and bring some young talent in. And even then they weren't doing well for a while because of WCW's ratings.

 

The point of this? I don't know what you want, and neither do they. Creative could use a huge shakeup, yes, but I don't think they can change the nation's pulse at the minute. A lot of people in general just don't care about pro wrestling. A lot of money that used to be spent on going to house shows isn't being spent when the economy is going down the crapper and that money is saved in case someone loses their job.

 

We are going to have to sit through some utterly terrible Undertaker matches before the Undertaker realizes he ain't what he used to be and makes his departure. We will probably never be free of the Clique in one form or another, because a worker getting into a relationship with their boss is practically guaranteed to happen in ANY workplace where a young woman has near-abosolute power.

 

While flushing WCW vs WWF and having old ghosts like HBK going over Jericho is driving in the wrong direction, I doubt that even if Raw was like SmackDown (which, since the Al Wilson angle ended, has been pretty damn solid if you can forgive the old "20 minute promo" spot that has moved from the start of the show to the main event), people may not spend money on the product.

 

RavishingRickRudo, you seem to believe they can fix their own problem. I have to doubt you on that.

[Guest Downhome]

Which is exactly why I think it will be years again before things really change this time. That was a great post JotW. While I am LOVING the HBK/Jericho angle, I know that if it doesn't end with Jericho looking even better that it's all for lost, but in the end, I'm still satisfied with it. It's the constant battle between the smark and the mark inside of me. For not, the mark is winning here lately.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I think had they not f'd up the WCW vs WWF vs ECW angle, we would not be in the posistion we are in now. We have almost all of that old WCW talent, it's just, we have them too late. That angle could have been huge, could have been a success, and could have helped the industry be on top for many years to come.

That definitely gets my vote for the angle that started the mass WWF/E disdain. You have this dream angle, that is sure to make WWF millions, and all that potential is squandered just to appease McMahon's ego and drive it into the ground that everyone should only expect the stars McMahon created himself to get truly glorified.

 

Truly frustrating to watch, especially how it was the first big angle after Benoit/Austin from Edmonton got me back to watching every week (often with anticipation).

[Guest Downhome]

I think had they not f'd up the WCW vs WWF vs ECW angle, we would not be in the posistion we are in now. We have almost all of that old WCW talent, it's just, we have them too late. That angle could have been huge, could have been a success, and could have helped the industry be on top for many years to come.

That definitely gets my vote for the angle that started the mass WWF/E disdain. You have this dream angle, that is sure to make WWF millions, and all that potential is squandered just to appease McMahon's ego and drive it into the ground that everyone should only expect the stars McMahon created himself to get truly glorified.

 

Truly frustrating to watch, especially how it was the first big angle after Benoit/Austin from Edmonton got me back to watching every week (often with anticipation).

The moment that Vince McMahon's face showed up on that "historic" Monday Night Nitro, I knew right then and there that dark days were upon us, lol. Sure I marked out for what was happening, but even then I knew it wasn't a good thing at all. I say that that moment on that Nitro, is the moment that the industry was truly damaged.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Do not tell me what I am or am not. I would love a change, better storylines, more exposure for certain people just as much as any of you people.

 

Well I just did tell you. If you do want change you would at least try to do something about it - you have shown no willingness to do so.

 

You can do what you want, but a boycott of net fans is not the way to do it. I do not think you'll get many casual fans to do so, simply because they do not take this shit as serious as many of you guys do.

 

Fans are Fans. It's time for the WWE to realize this.

 

It's up to those inside of the industry to get things on a better track. Both those in WWE, and those in other indy feds and the such.

 

That won't happen.

 

I really do want a change, trust me. I do however feel it's slowly starting to change, but this is where we disagree, and is why I've started to like the product now, more than I have in 1-2 years.

 

They just brought back Sable. At WM they had the miller light cat fight girls. They did GGW. Where do you see the changes?

 

It will take hundreds of thousands of people to ever even get Vince's attention, not 100-200, those types of numbers mean nothing.

 

Again, it's time to test that theory.

 

I respect you for your desire to attempt to get something done, but it's not up to you.

 

There are people who say that about every revolution. I am not powerless, but my power is very very small. The more people, the more power. Are you familiar with revolutions? I'm not trying to romanticize what has been said in this thread, but that is what this is.

 

No matter what you say, HHH will still be in his posistion. Hell, he'll more than likely end up owning part of the company one day. Again, untill those in the industry decide to do something, things will not drasticly change as you want.

 

Then let it be a two front war. Let the fans speak out and the wrestlers use the fans' words as support to their own arguments. To just say "You can't do anything" doesn't help at all. We still must try if we really want change.

 

Let me toss this question out there, for everyone here...

 

...what exactly would you like to have happen? What do you wish to gain by doing what you propose?

 

Change.

 

I'm not trying to start anything, so do not take it like that. I am seriously asking this question, and it's a question that needs to be answered by all, if you want to even think about doing anything.

 

Why are you here DH? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. This thread (hopefully) is the start of *something* and the end of *nothing*. But you keep with your *nothing*, if you're happy with it, you keep on doing it.

 

What is your ultimate goal?

 

Change.

 

Read this: http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/news/wre...t.asp?aID=17064

[Guest Downhome]

Do not tell me what I am or am not. I would love a change, better storylines, more exposure for certain people just as much as any of you people.

 

Well I just did tell you. If you do want change you would at least try to do something about it - you have shown no willingness to do so.

 

You can do what you want, but a boycott of net fans is not the way to do it. I do not think you'll get many casual fans to do so, simply because they do not take this shit as serious as many of you guys do.

 

Fans are Fans. It's time for the WWE to realize this.

 

It's up to those inside of the industry to get things on a better track. Both those in WWE, and those in other indy feds and the such.

 

That won't happen.

 

I really do want a change, trust me. I do however feel it's slowly starting to change, but this is where we disagree, and is why I've started to like the product now, more than I have in 1-2 years.

 

They just brought back Sable. At WM they had the miller light cat fight girls. They did GGW. Where do you see the changes?

 

It will take hundreds of thousands of people to ever even get Vince's attention, not 100-200, those types of numbers mean nothing.

 

Again, it's time to test that theory.

 

I respect you for your desire to attempt to get something done, but it's not up to you.

 

There are people who say that about every revolution. I am not powerless, but my power is very very small. The more people, the more power. Are you familiar with revolutions? I'm not trying to romanticize what has been said in this thread, but that is what this is.

 

No matter what you say, HHH will still be in his posistion. Hell, he'll more than likely end up owning part of the company one day. Again, untill those in the industry decide to do something, things will not drasticly change as you want.

 

Then let it be a two front war. Let the fans speak out and the wrestlers use the fans' words as support to their own arguments. To just say "You can't do anything" doesn't help at all. We still must try if we really want change.

 

Let me toss this question out there, for everyone here...

 

...what exactly would you like to have happen? What do you wish to gain by doing what you propose?

 

Change.

 

I'm not trying to start anything, so do not take it like that. I am seriously asking this question, and it's a question that needs to be answered by all, if you want to even think about doing anything.

 

Why are you here DH? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. This thread (hopefully) is the start of *something* and the end of *nothing*. But you keep with your *nothing*, if you're happy with it, you keep on doing it.

 

What is your ultimate goal?

 

Change.

 

Read this: http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/news/wre...t.asp?aID=17064

You are making me sick, you have no right to say what I do and do not want, much less to say I'm a PROBLEM. I have taken no shots at you, and I expect you to be mature enough to not do so to me. Just because we do not agree on everything, gives you no right to act like an elitist ass hole to me.

 

I want change, but I know what will not work. There is nothing that you can do that will change Vince McMahon, period. At least not on the terms of which you have presented. By saying you want change, that is not really helping anyone.

 

You need to have a goal, what types of change you want needs to be specific. Are you going to write WWE and say "we want change"? Why don't you lay out here what you want to change, what you want to happen, and where you want to go from here?

 

Do not resort to taking shots at me again, if you can not discuss this without doing so, then grow up. I'm willing to help, but I will not do so when you act like an ass.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

They just brought back Sable. At WM they had the miller light cat fight girls. They did GGW. Where do you see the changes?

Oh come on. You're picking on the most pathetic stuff.

 

We don't know yet what they're planning to do with Sable. She is far and away from the women's title while on SmackDown, so I think she is mostly harmless.

 

They probably MADE money from the Catfight girls. It's not like those are celebrities in huge demand with giant appearance fees. Hell, Miller probably GAVE WWE money for calling them "The Miller Lite Catfight Girls" and marketing the beer. And while they weren't bound to be anything more than slightly amusing, I doubt anyone decided NOT to buy the show specifically because of the Catfight Girls.

[Guest Downhome]

Also, the saying "fans are fans" is simply not true. There are the fans who sit at home, watch the show and enjoy it or not without any knowledge at all about what goes on backstage. Then there are the net fans who think they do know things, hear what goes on backstage, and the such and sometimes base their decisions on what they do or do not like on that.

 

There is a distint diference, to think differently is simply being blind.

[Guest Downhome]

One thing that would be a great place to start trying to change things, is trying to help another company get a TV deal. If this energy focused on being negative towards WWE and the such was focused on getting TNA or someone a TV deal, now THAT could be a starting point to a change for the industry.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Well, that article was an intriguing read. This passage really struck me:

 

Are you proud to be a WWF fan? Do you wear that "Just Bring It" shirt to school/work/etc everyday? Do you use wrestling catchphrases like 'layin the smackdown' and 'suckkkaaa' on a date? Whenever there is someone insulting the WWF and its fans, do you stand up for em? I don't think many of you do. I know I don't. Wrestling is no longer 'cool' and wrestling fans are seen as incompetent white trash who like to see grown men in their underwear hit each other with chairs. We are Jerry Springer guests. We are looked down upon. I read some posts on message boards and I constantly hear "What do you expect, IT'S WRESTLING!" As even wrestling fans look at the product in that way. We have accepted that wrestling is stupid fluff that is unable to provide intelligent storylines - if I use the word 'art' to describe wrestling I would get laughed at. That's the wrestling world Vince McMahon created - that genius!

 

Ouch. Painfully accurate.

[Guest TheGame2705]

This quite possibly is the STUPIDEST thing I have EVER heard in my life. I would stop watching wrestling if Vince started booking like a smark.

 

Things smarks NEED to realize:

-Booker T as seen before cannot get any heat in his interview except for the initial 5 seconds of seeing him and when he says "SUCCKKKKAA!!!". Most fans in his matches only watch for the Spinaroonie. Booker hurt his leg being pedigreed for crying out loud. If you put the belt on this man it solves NOTHING. Realize that.

Chris Jericho is nowhere near the depths of despair like most of you seem to think. Everyone talks about how Shawn Michaels is Satan because he beat Jericho. Tell me again who left the ring being helped by the ref and holding his balls?

Rob Van Dam is the same sloppy, flippy floppy wrestler who doesn't look like he gives a crap about anything which is what you all hate about Jeff Hardy. The man shows NO emotion or concern in ANY of his interviews and his matches are usually nothing to piss yourselves about.

Boycott RAW. I'll laugh my motherfucking ass off if it's the night Booker wins the crap title or if Jericho beats Shawn clean in an impromptu match because then if they somehow see a decrease in ratings they'll think it's because of that.

 

 

It's one thing to say you enjoy Booker or RVD and just wanna see them get pushed but if you say they deserve it, that's a whole other issue. And it's one thing to say you think Jericho didn't look strong in a segment and another to say "Jericho will NEVER ever recover from this. He's done he might as well retire."

[Guest Downhome]

Another thing which could be very effective is, well, something along these lines. At just about EVERY WWE show, instead of some of you guys going to the WWE shows, try to put together a protest outside of the arena where the show is being held, PEACEFULLY.

 

Try to get a lot of people together to actually stand outside, really get noticed, letting everyone know both by letting them see and hear what it is exactly that you want. Again, it would take a lot of time, and a lot of people, but if something like THIS could be put together for just about every WWE show, it would be a lot more effective than simply by writing a letter.

[Guest Downhome]

This quite possibly is the STUPIDEST thing I have EVER heard in my life. I would stop watching wrestling if Vince started booking like a smark.

 

Things smarks NEED to realize:

-Booker T as seen before cannot get any heat in his interview except for the initial 5 seconds of seeing him and when he says "SUCCKKKKAA!!!". Most fans in his matches only watch for the Spinaroonie. Booker hurt his leg being pedigreed for crying out loud. If you put the belt on this man it solves NOTHING. Realize that.

Chris Jericho is nowhere near the depths of despair like most of you seem to think. Everyone talks about how Shawn Michaels is Satan because he beat Jericho. Tell me again who left the ring being helped by the ref and holding his balls?

Rob Van Dam is the same sloppy, flippy floppy wrestler who doesn't look like he gives a crap about anything which is what you all hate about Jeff Hardy. The man shows NO emotion or concern in ANY of his interviews and his matches are usually nothing to piss yourselves about.

Boycott RAW. I'll laugh my motherfucking ass off if it's the night Booker wins the crap title or if Jericho beats Shawn clean in an impromptu match because then if they somehow see a decrease in ratings they'll think it's because of that.

 

 

It's one thing to say you enjoy Booker or RVD and just wanna see them get pushed but if you say they deserve it, that's a whole other issue. And it's one thing to say you think Jericho didn't look strong in a segment and another to say "Jericho will NEVER ever recover from this. He's done he might as well retire."

Since you will more than likely be beaten up for this post, I will say that I agree with just about everything you posted and I'll leave it at that.

[Guest TheGame2705]

What will they do? Have signs that say "Down with HHHitler"? "I'd rather fuck a corpse than watch Train"?

 

You guys have to realize that wrestlers like anyone else HAVE FEELINGS. Saying slanderous or otherwise just plain cruel things about wrestlers just makes YOU look like the idiot, not them, not Vince.

 

Actually...I hope you guys SUCCEED. I hope WWE programming is CANCELLED. Then you guys can't complain. It'll be great. Then I can bet alot of you will complain there's no wrestling to watch.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You are making me sick, you have no right to say what I do and do not want, much less to say I'm a PROBLEM.

 

Ok, I have no right to say it... but I am. You're low standards and acceptance of your powerlessness is a problem. The very fact that you are speaking out against taking action is a problem because there could be much more productive things taking place in this thread.

 

I have taken no shots at you, and I expect

you to be mature enough to not do so to me.

 

I haven't resorted to name calling yet, and what I have said about you I believe to be very true. Do you have low standards? Yep. Do you feel that doing nothing is the best solution? Yep.

 

Just because we do not agree on everything, gives you no right to act like an elitist ass hole to me.

 

Oh Downhome, where is this maturity that you spoke of just a few lines above? If being "elitist" is wanting something better, then that's me. Damn me and my high standards (which aren't high, they are perfectly reasonable.)

 

I want change, but I know what will not work.

 

How do you know? It hasn't really been done before.

 

There is nothing that you can do that will change Vince McMahon, period.

 

I am starting to get a strange feeling that you work for the WWE Downhome. Doing nothing guarantees you nothing. Even by doing something there is always the chance - no matter how slim it is - for change.

 

At least not on the terms of which you have presented. By saying you want change, that is not really helping anyone.

 

"Change" is a broad statement, but it is the same statement echo'd in all revolutions. It is suitable motivation though.

 

You need to have a goal, what types of change you want needs to be specific. Are you going to write WWE and say "we want change"? Why don't you lay out here what you want to change, what you want to happen, and where you want to go from here?

 

This is just the beginning. The first thing I'd like to know is how many people are on board, then we can move on from there.

 

Do not resort to taking shots at me again, if you can not discuss this without doing so, then grow up. I'm willing to help, but I will not do so when you act like an ass.

 

You're getting awfully worked up over this - me thinks doth protest a lil too much. If you want to help, then help.

[Guest Downhome]

What will they do? Have signs that say "Down with HHHitler"? "I'd rather fuck a corpse than watch Train"?

 

You guys have to realize that wrestlers like anyone else HAVE FEELINGS. Saying slanderous or otherwise just plain cruel things about wrestlers just makes YOU look like the idiot, not them, not Vince.

 

Actually...I hope you guys SUCCEED. I hope WWE programming is CANCELLED. Then you guys can't complain. It'll be great. Then I can bet alot of you will complain there's no wrestling to watch.

I am simply trying to think of something that could actually work or the such for their cause, that is all. As much as I also would like for a few things to change, I am content with watching the current batch of angles play out and the such.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Ouch. Painfully accurate.

The people he describes in the opening are always stupid.

 

Hey guys, I liked the Power Rangers, up until Lightspeed Rescue anyway. I can hear the wrestling know-it-alls laughing at me and calling me a geek right now.

 

Some years, Power Rangers was incredibly pathetic in terms of plot (such as the original show, which depended on Japanese footage), some years it was painful to watch (Power Rangers Turbo), and some years the storylines were well-written with enough continuity and drama to match your average TV show (Power Rangers in Space.) They also eventually started spending an impressive amount of money on CGI and special effects and less Japanese footage.

 

It never mattered though, because each show had guys in spandex suits running around beating people in embarassing costumes and putting together giant plastic robots to stomp on cardboard cities. These themes were constant even at it's heights.

 

The same can be said for wrestling. No matter how great you think Chris Benoit is, no matter how much you appreciate Bret Hart as a performer, no matter how many people you list off Kurt Angle's accomplishments to, the fact of the matter is that guy with all the muscles and the itty-bitty shorts just won the match by sticking the other guy's head into his crotch and jumping into the air.

 

 

The other issue in this arguement is that most the people who say "This is because Vince McMahon ruined wrestling" never were around before Vince McMahon started influencing wrestling. Bruno Sammartino could really pack a house back in the day, but it's not like anyone talked about him over a business dinner with their co-workers.

[Guest Downhome]

I really don't see why you come and get all pissy with me, I said I DO want change. I simply am able to recognize what will work and what will not.

 

I ask again, what do you want to change? By doing this, what do you hope to acomplish? By stating this loud and clear at the begining of something like this, it makes everything else much easier to write out, as in means you should take, what you will need, etc...

 

I'm trying to work with you with various ideas and the such, but you are apparently not willing to cooperate with me. Stop with the asuming what I do or do not think, and answer my question and recognize my sugestions.

[Guest Downhome]

Ouch. Painfully accurate.

The people he describes in the opening are always stupid.

 

Hey guys, I liked the Power Rangers, up until Lightspeed Rescue anyway. I can hear the wrestling know-it-alls laughing at me and calling me a geek right now.

 

Some years, Power Rangers was incredibly pathetic in terms of plot (such as the original show, which depended on Japanese footage), some years it was painful to watch (Power Rangers Turbo), and some years the storylines were well-written with enough continuity and drama to match your average TV show (Power Rangers in Space.) They also eventually started spending an impressive amount of money on CGI and special effects and less Japanese footage.

 

It never mattered though, because each show had guys in spandex suits running around beating people in embarassing costumes and putting together giant plastic robots to stomp on cardboard cities. These themes were constant even at it's heights.

 

The same can be said for wrestling. No matter how great you think Chris Benoit is, no matter how much you appreciate Bret Hart as a performer, no matter how many people you list off Kurt Angle's accomplishments to, the fact of the matter is that guy with all the muscles and the itty-bitty shorts just won the match by sticking the other guy's head into his crotch and jumping into the air.

 

 

The other issue in this arguement is that most the people who say "This is because Vince McMahon ruined wrestling" never were around before Vince McMahon started influencing wrestling. Bruno Sammartino could really pack a house back in the day, but it's not like anyone talked about him over a business dinner with their co-workers.

Do you think anything needs to be changed, or are you ok with the way things are going?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh come on. You're picking on the most pathetic stuff.

 

I am picking stuff that is accurate of Vince McMahons view of wrestling. He still thinks that what worked in 1999 will work now - even after he has been proved wrong time and time again.

 

We don't know yet what they're planning to do with Sable. She is far and away from the women's title while on SmackDown, so I think she is mostly harmless.

 

People said that Al Wilson was harmless too. Looking back, the time they spent on that (horrible) storyline could have been used to push the cruiserweight division or establish a new star.

 

They probably MADE money from the Catfight girls. It's not like those are celebrities in huge demand with giant appearance fees. Hell, Miller probably GAVE WWE money for calling them "The Miller Lite Catfight Girls" and marketing the beer. And while they weren't bound to be anything more than slightly amusing, I doubt anyone decided NOT to buy the show specifically because of the Catfight Girls.

 

They used time on their programs to promote the Catfight Girls - they were advertised to be on the show - to think that McMahon believes that = buyrates is just amazing. The sponsorship is another story.

 

Also, the saying "fans are fans" is simply not true. There are the fans who sit at home, watch the show and enjoy it or not without any knowledge at all about what goes on backstage. Then there are the net fans who think they do know things, hear what goes on backstage, and the such and sometimes base their decisions on what they do or do not like on that.

 

There is a distint diference, to think differently is simply being blind.

 

Ok, so if I pay $25 for a DVD and a casual fan pays $25 for a DVD the money we give is different? A fan is a fan.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

The same can be said for wrestling. No matter how great you think Chris Benoit is, no matter how much you appreciate Bret Hart as a performer, no matter how many people you list off Kurt Angle's accomplishments to, the fact of the matter is that guy with all the muscles and the itty-bitty shorts just won the match by sticking the other guy's head into his crotch and jumping into the air.

 

 

The other issue in this arguement is that most the people who say "This is because Vince McMahon ruined wrestling" never were around before Vince McMahon started influencing wrestling. Bruno Sammartino could really pack a house back in the day, but it's not like anyone talked about him over a business dinner with their co-workers.

Okay, in the first paragraph you have a point, but regarding the second: considering the brainfarts McMahon has had in the last two years, you have to consider questions like this: did necrophelia sell any tickets? PPV buys? Did Kiss My Ass Club encourage attendance (and not from those that were going to events regardless)? I doubt it, and even if it did, would it offset the inevitable embarassment that came with it? Would you proclaim proudly "I watch HHH throw spaghetti at a camera! I love it when McMahon drops his drawers and makes men kiss his ass!"?

 

If anything, stupid shit like that is what I would like to see jettissoned for good.

[Guest Downhome]

Ok, so if I pay $25 for a DVD and a casual fan pays $25 for a DVD the money we give is different? A fan is a fan.

 

There is a huge difference in the fans that do not know what goes on and do not care, and those that follow everything all of the time. I'm sure Vince, when he listens to fans at all, would much rather listen to the fans that do not take politics into effect when saying what they want or not.