Tough Enough future in doubt

[Guest papacita]

Goldberg can establish himself as a badass without touching anyone, somethine I don't think Benoit can do.

I think that has to do more with his look than any type of charisma.

[Guest Redhawk]

There's a difference between a standing O and a pop. A standing O is when you are compelled to stand and clap out of respect whether you like the guy or not. A pop is all the people who like the guy reacting to him.

 

I think I reacted more cause sigs like that tick me off. There's no call for that. I don't see anyone bashing the Goldberg fans in their sig. Bashing Goldberg yes, but not those who like him so why bash those who hate him in your sig. It's arrogant.

Isn't it also arrogant for them to bash Goldberg? I don't see what's wrong with it. A lot of people in here hate on Goldberg for stupid reasons and I just call them on it.

 

But getting back on topic...how come no one has linked this to HHH yet? I was just waiting for it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Call them on it in a thread. I think people have good reasons for bashing him. Plus it is arrogant to ever flat out tell anyone to stop having their opinion.

 

If I may quote: "Basically speaking, stop hating"

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I don't think anyone cares enough about Tough Enough to blame HHH for wanting it gone.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Maybe as a person who doesn't mind the Goldberg likers it just got to me that you have that in your sig, but I know who you were directing that at so I somewhat understand why you wrote it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Oh and just a fair warning to ya. Your sig could be seen as flame baiting since you carry it into every folder/thread you go into.

 

Personally I don't think it is, but I don't know the rules enough to tell if it is by mod standards. Don't want you getting in trouble or anything.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

You know what. None of that matters. Let's just move on.

 

This is one of the few times I agree with HHH. It's time for Tough Enough to end.

[Guest Choken One]

TE was a good idea...It showed the Non-Believers just how hard they train for this job but when It got saddled with the Reality Crap...It was pure shit.

 

In the first season...They sought WRESTLERS...on Season Two...They sought Good Lookers...On Season Three they sought Conflicts...

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I liked season 1...but after that the kids started bugging me more and more.

[Agent_Bond34 0]

Tough Enough might not be aired again?

 

Oh well, no big deal....

 

[Guest ViciousFish]

I really liked the entire premise of Tough Enough but by season 2 and 3 there was episodes on a 'wrestling show' that had 5 minutes or less of actual ring time.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I still wish they would revamp the thing. Take it off Mtv and put it on TNN and completely remove Mtv from the process.

 

Only give out shots to people in Indy Feds and Wrestling Schools.

 

And have them living in dumpy conditions or something less luxurious.

[Guest ViciousFish]

I'd give up everything I own to go to TE. I'd never make it as a wrestler and probably end up yelling back at DeMott but that house is better than anything I have ever, or will ever live in.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Only give out shots to people in Indy Feds and Wrestling Schools.

 

And have them living in dumpy conditions or something less luxurious.

Damn right. And when they're near the end put them on an indy show in front of a mean crowd of about 30, like the real indies.

[Guest Choken One]

I'm all for that...

 

Have 8 Guys...No Girls Sorry.

 

Have them already be involved in School (but not people like Chris Daniels I.E Established Indy stars).

 

This way you already got 8 dedicated Newcomers...Give them a Small 4 bedroom house in NYC. Nothing special...Just the basic materials...Kitchen, Tv, Sofa, CPU and Shower.

 

Have them on the road during the weekends (they train Tues-Friday at an normal Wrestling School.

 

Keep the "Game" aspect by having Incintives...which keeps the casual fans intrigued.

 

Don't treat them like 16 year olds on a School Trip...

 

Just have Big Hand them the Key to house after a Session and They can get whatever info via E-Mail.

 

Give them 6 Months...You can still edit it down to 13 Eps if you want...

 

Have a Cut every 4 Weeks...Move the show from MTV thursday to TNN on Monday at 8:30 (Yeah, That means No Star Trek but they can put on one of their other "premerie" sitcoms/cartoon on at 800 and have Monday as their Thursday to NBC)...

 

Only four Trainers

 

Al Snow-The Head Trainer/Leader/Motivator

Dean Melenko-Pyschology and Mat Skills

Tommy Dreamer-Vetern whom helps adjust to life on the road

Arn Anderson-Interview and Brawl skills

 

Offer only ONE contract...

 

Have Random Drug Testing (makes them look more respectable)...

[Guest Kid Kablam]

since when does MTV know what's Hip? It misses every boat by like 6 months...

agreed, the last time they did anything of relevance was when they had Daria.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

He's over because he has charisma, more charisma than a certain Mr. Chris Benoit

 

I know this is off topic but I'd have to disagree with that. He can't cut any better a promo than Benoit can and I've never seen Goldberg get a standing ovation.

 

And I can hate on whomever I please the guy still gets stale very quickly.

 

Sorry......carry on.

Goldberg has had tons of standing ovations, Maybe not after a match, but whenever his music plays people stand up and clap. That's a standing O in my book. In fact, a bunch of wrestlers get standing ovations all the time.

 

And Benoit has to wrestle a great match to get over. Goldberg gets over just by walking down the ramp. That's charisma. Goldberg can establish himself as a badass without touching anyone, somethine I don't think Benoit can do.

Bullcrap. Goldberg was your run of the mill wrestler until WCW gave hims his undefeated streak. Don't tell me that Goldberg made it on his own. Benoit had to overcome A) The fact that he is short and "Small" B) He wrestled a style foreign to American audiences

C) He began his career in a system that didn't put a premium on mic skills

 

Now Benoit over came all of this, and Benoit is a lot more intense in the ring, which to me is a form of charisma, his promos have gotten way better (altough Angle helped a lot by being a foil). Without his "look" Goldberg would be shit (even moreso than he already is).

[Guest Trivia247]

thats like th fourth link so far getting removed from the WWE.... Was like Steven Richards, then Hogans then someone elses now this.

[Guest wildpegasus]

To RedHawk: You want to know the main reason Goldberg is so popular? Because he's intense. The same exact reason why Benoit is over. Basically, Goldberg is just a bigger version of Benoit's gimmick minus the wrestling ability. To dismiss Benoit while applauding Golberg is completely ludicrous since they basically have the same gimmick. Add some battle music which gets everyone pumped up and that's what gives you the pops for Goldberg.

[Guest TheArchiteck]

I'm all for that...

 

Have 8 Guys...No Girls Sorry.

 

Have them already be involved in School (but not people like Chris Daniels I.E Established Indy stars).

 

This way you already got 8 dedicated Newcomers...Give them a Small 4 bedroom house in NYC. Nothing special...Just the basic materials...Kitchen, Tv, Sofa, CPU and Shower.

 

Have them on the road during the weekends (they train Tues-Friday at an normal Wrestling School.

 

Keep the "Game" aspect by having Incintives...which keeps the casual fans intrigued.

 

Don't treat them like 16 year olds on a School Trip...

 

Just have Big Hand them the Key to house after a Session and They can get whatever info via E-Mail.

 

Give them 6 Months...You can still edit it down to 13 Eps if you want...

 

Have a Cut every 4 Weeks...Move the show from MTV thursday to TNN on Monday at 8:30 (Yeah, That means No Star Trek but they can put on one of their other "premerie" sitcoms/cartoon on at 800 and have Monday as their Thursday to NBC)...

 

Only four Trainers

 

Al Snow-The Head Trainer/Leader/Motivator

Dean Melenko-Pyschology and Mat Skills

Tommy Dreamer-Vetern whom helps adjust to life on the road

Arn Anderson-Interview and Brawl skills

 

Offer only ONE contract...

 

Have Random Drug Testing (makes them look more respectable)...

Sounds good to me.

[Guest RenegadeX28]

I liked the TE series very much, with my favorite being TE3. That show really did what the title mentioned....TOUGH ENOUGH. The winners of that TE worked really hard for the contracts, and hopefully when Matt and Eric re-debut on WWE TV, they willl have gotten way better because of training.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I just thought it was stupid to have more than one series. Maven can have 'tough enough guy' as his gimmick, but why the hell do you need anyone else like that? The only good things to come out of TE were Al Snow on TV and Chris Nowinski.

[Mrnoitaull 0]

They should have a "Tough Enough Battle Royale" at Wrestlemania XX, with 20 of the Tough Enough alums (no winners allowed) going at it. Darryl from TE1, Scott from TE3, Jake from TE2...all the cool ones.

think that would be a good time to give Josh his shine in the ring ... I though he should've won seeing as though we had no cruiserweights at the time ( regards to TE1).plus he's pretty good I think but I guess that's over with now that we have Brain and all....

[Guest Anglesault]

And have them living in dumpy conditions or something less luxurious.

Why on earth.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

Well, Mick Foley and Perry saturn had to live in their cars eating peanut butter when getting into the business, they make it look like you start out with a millionaire lifestyle in the first place.

[Guest creativename]

1) Bret Hart was on his last legs, anyway; GET OVER IT. Besides, no one hates on Owen Hart for fucking up Steve Austin.

 

Since we're discussing this guy's sig, I'll jump in.

 

Redhawk, if you say you're gonna "call people" on stuff, you really should do it with logic that isn't so absurd. It makes you look silly. This is like argument #1 people come up with when defending Goldberg injuring Bret, and it's just as easy to dismiss as it was years ago. This is wrestling, accidents happen; in fact, the Owendriver could have killed/paralyzed Austin, which is far worse than Goldberg giving Bret a concussion. However, Owen injurying Austin was a fluke, in an otherwise safe career. Goldberg is infamous for being sloppy and injuring people in the ring. Him seriously injuring somebody was probably just a matter of time. It's far easier to forgive a fluke like Owen, than it is to forgive what Goldberg did.

 

The only question is whether you blame Goldberg, or WCW for letting such a green/sloppy guy wrestle. Many choose to do the latter.

[Guest SP-1]

TE might be finished?

 

*Thinks about munching on a Cheez-It*

 

Huh. How 'bout that.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, Mick Foley and Perry saturn had to live in their cars eating peanut butter when getting into the business,

 

Yes...?

 

The whole premise is that these people (If you do it with actual wrestlers) were deemed good enough by the WWF and they won something by proving to be better than the other people who fought. I see no reason to move them from one shitbox to another shitbox, the only difference being this new shitbox has even less room and more restrictions due to a camera crew. Wow, what incentive.

[David Blazenwing 0]

Maven is the only TE winner that's EVER going to actually get anywhere career-wise. Sure, Nidia's on TV, but the Women's title is on RAW and she has maybe 2 matches a month... all the other winners are trapped in OVW limbo

 

BTW, I said WINNERS of TE, before any of you go on a Chris Nowinski rant

[Guest Redhawk]

The only question is whether you blame Goldberg, or WCW for letting such a green/sloppy guy wrestle. Many choose to do the latter.

 

One time I asked in a thread, "Can someone logically (w/o just saying 'He sucks') explain why you hate Goldberg so much?" The second-most common answer I got was, "He retired Bret Hart." So I think most Goldberg-haters do blame Bill, not WCW. And who else has Goldberg injured if he's so sloppy? More people than RVD?

 

You want to know the main reason Goldberg is so popular? Because he's intense. The same exact reason why Benoit is over. Basically, Goldberg is just a bigger version of Benoit's gimmick minus the wrestling ability. To dismiss Benoit while applauding Golberg is completely ludicrous since they basically have the same gimmick. Add some battle music which gets everyone pumped up and that's what gives you the pops for Goldberg.

 

I didn't dismiss Benoit, I just said Goldberg has more natural charisma. And, fact is, your look has a lot to do with your charisma, since charisma is closely linked to "aura."

 

Yes, Goldberg and Benoit are both built on being intense, but so is HHH. So going by your logic you could also say HHH and Benoit have the same gimmick. But you wouldn't say that, would you? Benoit's character has more of a controlled intensity, a focused business-like thing. Goldberg almost barks at you: He's like a psycho middle linebacker-type.

 

I would measure it like this: In WCW, Goldberg started at the bottom as a nobody, then started to get bigger pops and more fan support as he continued to squash people and act intense and mysterious (remember, he never talked at first). When he came to WWE, he was automatically over without doing anything.

 

Chris Benoit, on the other hand, started as a nobody in WCW, and got over after putting on a string of great matches. When he came to WWF (consider also that he jumped within a couple of weeks, while Goldberg took 3 years), he was NOT automatically over. He needed to prove himself with (non-smark) fans all over again.

 

Plus, it's obvious that Benoit is lacking something in the charisma department. Otherwise, why would someone who's such a great wrestler never be "given the ball?" And I'm not even talking titles. It took Chris Jericho a long time to win the WWF title and never won the WCW title, but he's been given the ball in big-time feuds or been called upon to carry a show or carry an entertaining feud, like he's carrying RAW now. Goldberg was given the ball to carry an entire company in WCW. Kurt Angle, just one year into his career, was given the ball and has been given the ball regularly. Benoit's been around longer than all of those guys, yet he has never been given the ball. In every big feud he's had he's been the secondary guy, just called upon to bring it in the ring and not much else. I don't see Benoit merchandise flying off the shelves like I've seen Goldberg, Jericho and Angle merchandise. Fans know Benoit as "that guy who's a good wrestler," but other than that he bores them.