Oh Yuna.....

[Guest Thoth]

A lot of old RPG's are better than FF, too.

 

Valkyrie Profile - Best RPG of all time

Xenogears

Xenosaga

Star Ocean 2

Persona

Dragon Warrior 7 (Arguable, some people just don't like DW)

Kingdom Hearts

[Guest Sakura]

FF VIII is like the best game ever.

 

Flashy FMV enhances the story and mood, like a lot. Seeing Aeris die in CG is better than seeing a little sprite get stabbed.

[Guest Star Ocean 3]

FMV enhances the experience, but the games Thoth mentioned like Valkyrie Profile and DW7 excell in more important areas than the FFs do. (gameplay)

[Yuna_Firerose 0]

Kingdom Hearts

You're kidding...right? How in the hell could Kingdom Hearts ever be considered a greater game than any FF? To me, Kingdom Hearts was only good for a few rentals, and after that, it's playability just dwindled away. Sure it was fun seeing some of the Disney villains, but the game was just too.....kiddy for me. Not to mention the battle system was annoying as hell.

 

Persona

A while back I so wanted to get Persona 2: Eternal Punishment but it was just too expensive. From the clips I saw, which weren't many, the J-Pop in there was totally kick-ass.

[Guest Sakura]

FMV enhances the experience, but the games Thoth mentioned like Valkyrie Profile and DW7 excell in more important areas than the FFs do. (gameplay)

Experience > Gameplay.

 

No RPG has "great gameplay" if you ask me(though some are better than others). Turn based battles, random battles, picking stuff from menus, buying weapons, raising stats, ect. that stuff is not very exciting.

 

I play RPGs for epic, engaging experiences and storylines.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

To me, the presentation (graphics) is almost as important as the gameplay. If the opening has blocky or jaggy graphics, I start thinking "Man if they made THIS look bad what about the rest of the game?" That kills my interest quick.

 

Hey Sakura if a lot of the RPG experience doesn't appeal to you, you might want to give Dark Cloud 2 a try. I've just gotten started and although the cel-shaded graphics look cartoony, the gameplay is great thus far (only about 3 hours in). All enemies are seen before they are fought (except for boss battles) and all fights are real time. There are the requisite RPG "buy this, look at that menu" interface, but all in all it's a good game with good graphics, very good voice acting, and a couple of interesting little extras (the "idea" concept and the Georama[??] world building).

[Guest Star Ocean 3]

FMV enhances the experience, but the games Thoth mentioned like Valkyrie Profile and DW7 excell in more important areas than the FFs do. (gameplay)

Experience > Gameplay.

 

No RPG has "great gameplay" if you ask me(though some are better than others). Turn based battles, random battles, picking stuff from menus, buying weapons, raising stats, ect. that stuff is not very exciting.

 

I play RPGs for epic, engaging experiences and storylines.

I don't see the point of playing RPGs if you don't like any of that stuff. Why suffer through those battles and menus just for some FMV?

 

There is no experience without gameplay, which makes a game like Star Ocean 3 better than FFX, because it has the long cutscenes and all that, and is still more fun to actually play.

[Guest Renegade]

Kingdom Hearts

You're kidding...right? How in the hell could Kingdom Hearts ever be considered a greater game than any FF? To me, Kingdom Hearts was only good for a few rentals, and after that, it's playability just dwindled away. Sure it was fun seeing some of the Disney villains, but the game was just too.....kiddy for me. Not to mention the battle system was annoying as hell.

Good for a few rentals? Bullshit! Unless you can clock in a good 10 hours per rental since the game has a 30 hour length and thats excluding the secrets.

 

The battle system is the best and most creative thing that square have done with their lazy asses since Vagrant story. How does the playability "dwindle away" exactly? Was the ability to use new moves in a 3D battle field too confusing?

 

Too kiddy? I guess it is to some extent, but the game manages to brilliantly handle and deliver its simplistic disney driven story, supported by some of the finest voice acting to grace any game.

[Yuna_Firerose 0]

Kingdom Hearts

You're kidding...right? How in the hell could Kingdom Hearts ever be considered a greater game than any FF? To me, Kingdom Hearts was only good for a few rentals, and after that, it's playability just dwindled away. Sure it was fun seeing some of the Disney villains, but the game was just too.....kiddy for me. Not to mention the battle system was annoying as hell.

Good for a few rentals? Bullshit! Unless you can clock in a good 10 hours per rental since the game has a 30 hour length and thats excluding the secrets.

 

The battle system is the best and most creative thing that square have done with their lazy asses since Vagrant story. How does the playability "dwindle away" exactly? Was the ability to use new moves in a 3D battle field too confusing?

 

Too kiddy? I guess it is to some extent, but the game manages to brilliantly handle and deliver its simplistic disney driven story, supported by some of the finest voice acting to grace any game.

The battle system is creative, I'll admit, and the voice acting is/was tremendous. The problem I had with the battle system is that, during those heavy battles within the first few hours of the game, it became mindless button mashing. Like the boss battle in the first town...I forget the name of the town, but it was the boss that spun around a lot. I'm sure you know what I mean. Anyway, there was just so much going on during that, that it became very confusing. Plus, it's hard to keep track of your teammates during battle.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I don't see the point of playing RPGs if you don't like any of that stuff. Why suffer through those battles and menus just for some FMV?

 

There is no experience without gameplay, which makes a game like Star Ocean 3 better than FFX, because it has the long cutscenes and all that, and is still more fun to actually play.

Oh for fuck's sakes, we aren't staring a war about Experience vs Gameplay again are we? WHY? FUCK WHY?

 

Outside of the remodeled after remodeled ATB or CTB system and the main plotline, RPGs haven't really been able to offer a different style of gameplay or experience.

 

Sure, you can add all the puzzles, riddles, monster hunting, beast murdering, villian slaying, etc., you want, but when it comes down to it, the core of the game is still the same. You still fight your enemies with you party of adventurers (hell, even this is predictable in most cases from 3-5 [odd ocassion more]) hacking and slashing them away with the almighty forged/God like/upgraded weapon whie tossing in a magic spell of super coolness (that if was real, would wipe out a town or countryside, but never do) here or there. You still end up having to hunt down the antagonist through a rigid line of direction where the monsters seemingly increase in intensity as you progress, even if the final dungeon is like next door of your home. Nothing ever changes with the core of the gameplay, as what really can you do with it? More or less spice it up greatly and complicate it to add to difficulty. So no offense Star Ocean 3, but you can't really bitch about gameplay in an RPG as there is only ATB or CTB. You can never have an RPG with real time as each single enemy/person/animated object would need an identity and a personality of it's own, and not just "oh it's just your generic slime that can't think for itself, yet slimes are the bane of the RPG realm and can raid the homes of the Humans/Worens/Windians/Mermaids/etc.". The more there is to spice up the core, the better we RPGamers call the gameplay, even though there really is no difference besides the bonuses or complication that are added to the gameplay.

 

The storyline/plot is pretty simple as it's the protagonist saving world/object/lover interest/self from the antagonist. Not that we don't like it that way, but really, how often do we see a break from this tried and true formula? Hardly at all. And even then when that break happens, it'll receive the implications that not stopping the antagonist will result in him using a new found power/weapon/etc. to really complete one of the afforment objectives. The only differences that makes these stories wonderfully unique and brilliant isn't the core of the plot, but in it's telling and it's imagination that goes into the world and people that the story is built on.

 

Now with the first two things mentioned, I must concede to you Star Ocean 3 (or anyone else who agrees with Star Ocean 3) that Final Fantasy series is not the be all end all to the RPG stream. Hell, I can name my top three games and not one of them is a Final Fantasy (one is made by Square though, the other Enix, and the last produced by Working Designs). Yet, Star Ocean 3 (or anyone else), you must concede that great gameplay doesn't make a good RPG either. If I recall, Star Ocean 2 was a great RPG for gameplay, but in terms of storyline it really came up quite weak.

 

Hell, let me take Thoth's list and I'll even discribe what I mean.

 

Valkyrie Profile - Best RPG of all time

Hardly the best RPG of all time (one of the greatest RPGs to be given little praise, yes) at least to me. Although you were given a mission to seek out the necessary souls to help Heaveny place (I forget the name, shut up) each character was given a little backstory and not really much depth to them, and although you saw the world as it was, how much time had passed from one victim/new recruit to your next? If anything the world evolved with every new member you recruited, dungeon you did and frankly, I really knew even less about where I'm defending and recruiting from. Not a major problem, but still one to raise some concerns. Battle system really is quite standard albeit for the combo attacks.

 

Scaled experience (altogether packaged) is about worth a 7 for being a good game. The graphics and everything do make up for a wonderfully well told story, just its backstory is pretty much non-existant.

 

Xenogears

As much as I like this game I'll have to state right now that localization and translation didn't help this game. Add to the fact that evem the creators admit that the game was no where complete to what they had planned, and this doesn't help the game out at all. All the characters should have an Anima (if you think about it, they should have), many of the dungeons were cut out (related to the Animas), and at times, the storyine just about killed the game as it was too much info given off to digest (disk two anyone?). The gameplay, while having a unique and interesting battle system is quite plain and ordinary, although magic was really irrelevant for the game. Gears were neat to have, but really wasn't any different from controlling yourself

 

The graphics really aren't too good in terms of character sprites (in the world and in the battle) and even the anime sequences look bland. Everything else looks like standard PSX. Rating is a 6 for being above average.

 

 

Xenosaga

Shoddy storyline really. I say it's good, but nothing great. Sure KOS-MOS is a fantastic character to behold, but everytime she whips out some awesome technique for killing Gnosis, Shion keeps saying "I didn't build that feature into her" almost. Inconsistancies killed this game. Shion CREATED KOS-MOS and yet knows less than we do about her. How about MOMO and her dad? Anyone get that far yet? Let's just say the headaches started to get really bad when I was trying to figure it all out. I'm not even touching chaos; cause damn, nothing was explained about him (excuse me, a little was, but even then nothing too earth shattering). Gameplay again is stardard, if not the tedious boost system (I hardly used it) and Gears (I NEVER used them unless storyline related).

 

I can't really bitch about the graphics or experience, but I must say that I felt like I was playing an interactive movie more than a game. Rating is a 7 for being good.

 

 

Star Ocean 2

I'll admit that the gameplay is great, but that's about it to this game. Storyline wise it was very choppy and eck. Due to translation problems as they left some of them in as it was told in Japanese and frankly a lot of things in Japanese, we have in English no meaning or phrase for it. Add to that sometimes things seemingly came out in left field and really weren't quite believable when they did, as proof with Rena. Ack, it just wasn't that great.

 

Graphically this game was just like Xenosaga, except the sprites only looked bad on the world map. Thusly rates 6 for being above average.

 

 

Persona

I just realized... I haven't played this game. Actually, I don't even know what it's about... That's quite sad that I've played 110+ RPGs (I think I'm at 117 in total), know most of the names by heart, and I know for a fact that I haven't played this. Damn, I'll just move on then.

 

 

Dragon Warrior 7 (Arguable, some people just don't like DW)

Dammit. this is one of my top three games. About the only thing in this game that is shoddy is the graphic details in the world, as it really looks quite on the border of just being better than SNES, but just a little off of PSX. In terms of gameplay, it's near the equivelent of being downright scary (you try getting all the monster hearts, and everything) as you must plot and plan your quest ahead of time, save up your cash and pray to God you've leveled up enough.

 

Scale rating is 8 for being a great game. The difficulty on this game is borderline insane even for a DQ game.

 

 

Kingdom Hearts

Ah. Kingdom Hearts. The storyline is wonderfully well done and the whole basis of it is sound and not much you pick at (Aeris to Aerith? Can we keep consistancy people?). Gameplay wise was as close to real time as you could possibly get, unique in that you really did feel like you were travelling this journey. Lastly the experience is a beautiful ride of wonder, excitment and adventure. Not really much you can bitch about.

 

Scale rating is 9. Almost near perfect, excet some flaws like translation errs, button mashing became a problem in some cases (mobbing was just a flaw in general) and the problem of continually thinking of most of the sub characters in their natural habitat.

 

 

Oh, Star Ocean 3, I won't concede how great your namesake is until it's localized here. I hate importing since my Japanese is about that of a 4 year old child.

[Guest Sakura]

I don't see the point of playing RPGs if you don't like any of that stuff. Why suffer through those battles and menus just for some FMV?

 

There is no experience without gameplay, which makes a game like Star Ocean 3 better than FFX, because it has the long cutscenes and all that, and is still more fun to actually play.

I don't "suffer" through it. Well, outside leveling up in a few games. It's not that turn based battles and what not are bad, it's just not the reason I play.

 

You can have the experience without deep, complicated gameplay. FFX has a pretty simple system and is really linear and it still ruled. I was totally into that game's story and characters and played through it twice so far. Will probably again before X-2 comes out.

 

I don't play just for the FMV. FMV is just one feature I like. The experience = a mix of great story, the cool cutscenes, character design, boss design, soundtrack(so underrated as an important feature!), basically all of the production value stuff.

[Guest Renegade]

Scale rating is 9. Almost near perfect, excet some flaws like translation errs, button mashing became a problem in some cases (mobbing was just a flaw in general) and the problem of continually thinking of most of the sub characters in their natural habitat.

Button mashing was never a problem for me, what was a problem for me was not being able to skip cutscenes.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

Scale rating is 9. Almost near perfect, excet some flaws like translation errs, button mashing became a problem in some cases (mobbing was just a flaw in general) and the problem of continually thinking of most of the sub characters in their natural habitat.

Button mashing was never a problem for me, what was a problem for me was not being able to skip cutscenes.

Well there is that I guess. Xenosaga at least gave you the option.

[Rendclaw 0]

I liked Parasite Eve in that it was just different enough from FF to make it a welcome respite.. I haven't even started to play FFX... hell I don;t have the time to devote, I still never finished VII, never mind playing VIII, and I started IX, but lost interest quickly.

 

I should finish Parasite Eve and go through Parasite Eve 2... I hope they make a PE3 at some point.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I liked Parasite Eve in that it was just different enough from FF to make it a welcome respite..

 

Was quite a good game. The original that is.

 

I haven't even started to play FFX... hell I don;t have the time to devote, I still never finished VII, never mind playing VIII, and I started IX, but lost interest quickly.

 

Final Fantasy X is good, worth the finishing. Don't bother with VII as it'll most likely be remade. VIII is just nasty game. IX is a good game, but you could see every thing coming a mile away.

 

I should finish Parasite Eve and go through Parasite Eve 2... I hope they make a PE3 at some point.

 

ACK~! PE2 just sucks. It's a RE clone, and if they do makea PE3, it'll have to go back to the way the original went in terms of gameplay.

[Guest Renegade]

I should finish Parasite Eve and go through Parasite Eve 2... I hope they make a PE3 at some point.

 

ACK~! PE2 just sucks. It's a RE clone, and if they do makea PE3, it'll have to go back to the way the original went in terms of gameplay.

I concur.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

Heh... I don't think they'll make one though.

[Guest Star Ocean 3]

I don't "suffer" through it. Well, outside leveling up in a few games. It's not that turn based battles and what not are bad, it's just not the reason I play.

 

You said that stuff was not exiciting, I just assumed the opposite, that they were boring.

 

I don't play just for the FMV. FMV is just one feature I like. The experience = a mix of great story, the cool cutscenes, character design, boss design, soundtrack(so underrated as an important feature!), basically all of the production value stuff.

 

That's the best point you made, not enough people realize how good some of these soundtracks are. I suggest you FFX fans check out the brilliance of FFX Piano Collections.

[Guest Sakura]

Oh, one thing that IS exciting: boss battles. Lots of those can be really fun and intense.

 

 

BTW, I am like not hating on games like Breath of Fire, Star Ocean, Dragon Warrior, or any other "old school" style games. They're just not my preference.

 

I liked Lunar: SSSC though.

[Guest Star Ocean 3]

The first Lunar is one of the best. The atmosphere and characters are just awesome. The second, however...didn't do as well.

[Guest Sakura]

I only played the second for like 5 seconds.

 

I love Nash in Lunar 1!

[Yuna_Firerose 0]

I agree that Silver Star Story was quite a fun game. 'Course I'm a fan of anime games in general.

[Guest Renegade]

I stumbled across a pal copy of Star ocean 2 for about 15 bucks. Since a pal version of the game is considered to be quite rare I decided to pick it up. I have no intention of keeping it since I was quite saddened by the crap translation and cliche ridden plot. Although the music was good and the battle system was interesting to say the least, kind of reminded me of the Tales battle system which IMO is the second best RPG battle system (after Zelda/KH).