Matches that are thought of WAY too highly...

[Guest Luke Cage]

Foley Undertaker HIAC. All I saw was Mick Foley falling onto/thru things.

TLC match from WM 2000. see above, insert various members of the teams involved.

Any HHH match...ever. I just don't get it, I never have and I never will.

[Guest Luke Cage]

Shane/Kurt at KOR 2001-Sure, it's good because it's a non-wrestler against the best pure wrestler on the roster...but all I saw was spot after spot after spot. The wrestling sequence just seemed out of place to me in the beginning.

The parts where Shane breifly out-wrestled Kurt Angle (taking him down, riding him, etc) clearly sticks out as bad psychology in that match because that NEVER should have happened. Every suplex that Shane performed, technical hold (blown Sharpshooter, Anklelock) really takes away from the match in my eyes.

 

Dames

Any time Shane stepped into the ring with a wrestler he should have gotten the stuffing kicked out of him and lost. 30-35 seconds to pinfall, tops.

[Guest papacita]

I don't think anyone would call Rock/Hogan a good match per se, just memorable for the whole aura surrounding it.

 

And I'd also like to say how much I loved the Rock/HHH Iron Man Match. I loved that spot where HHH hits Rock with the chair, gets DQ'd and then calmly pins him to go up a fall. That match was nice up until the McMahons got involved.

 

As for the most overrated match...I never really got all of the praise for the Jericho/Benoit/Power Trip Tag match from 2001. Not that I didn't like it, because I did, just didn't seem as great as everyone makes it out to be.

[Guest Breetai]

Rock-Austin WM17.

 

Most overrated match ever. ****-****1/4 maybe, but nowhere NEAR *****

[The Dames 0]

Shane/Kurt at KOR 2001-Sure, it's good because it's a non-wrestler against the best pure wrestler on the roster...but all I saw was spot after spot after spot. The wrestling sequence just seemed out of place to me in the beginning.

The parts where Shane breifly out-wrestled Kurt Angle (taking him down, riding him, etc) clearly sticks out as bad psychology in that match because that NEVER should have happened. Every suplex that Shane performed, technical hold (blown Sharpshooter, Anklelock) really takes away from the match in my eyes.

 

Dames

Any time Shane stepped into the ring with a wrestler he should have gotten the stuffing kicked out of him and lost. 30-35 seconds to pinfall, tops.

I wouldn't go that far. The whole point of it being a street fight was so that Shane could still look credible and do damage to Angle without having to make Shane look like a superior athlete in the least. In that context, I can buy Shane lasting a while, because he was fending off Angle's wrestling with "hardcore" weapon shots.

 

Dames

[Guest wildpegasus]

Most overrated by a landside:

 

Michaels vs Undertapper HITC: I finally got to see this match and man alive was I dissapointed. The Undertapper getting immediatly up after a superkick? That's not storytelling in the sense that the tapper was sussposed to be industructable in this match. That's just plain bad wrestling. The Bret-Owen cage match creamed this match in "Best ever WWF steel cage match" category.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

I'm going to get killed for this but i think that

 

Stone Cold vs. Benoit in Edmonton is way way overrated

 

I thought it was really dull and the fact that someone can withstand 10 german suplexes in a row and not get pinned is absurd. I thought their match on Raw after Survivor Series 2000 was much better.

[Guest ManKinnd]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the HHH/Austin 3 stages of hell, though I loved it, seems to be a favorite of "over-ratedness" on this board.

Oh well.

I never understood the greatness that was Savage/Steamboat. It looked to me like a decent old school match with some good near falls. Call it around ****. Steele interferring didn't help matters.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Austin vs. HHH 2/3 falls match

 

Seriously... this match is NOT all that and a bag of po-ta-to chips

 

Foley vs. Taker HIAC

 

Without the two bumps, this match is nothing, and I think it hurts Mick's credibility everytime he praises it as one of his best

 

Brock vs. Rock SummerSlam

 

I was on the Brock bandwagon before this match happened, but I just don't think it was all that great. The build was awesome, and the crowd turning on Rock was great too, but as a match... I just didn't feel it

 

And... this one is the one I doubt many people will agree with me on

 

Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin WM XIII

 

I've mentioned this several times... don't get me wrong, I love this match. I really do. But it's not a perfect 5 star match, and I'll tell you why as I've mentioned before. For a match to rate 5 stars in MY mind, the match must be perfect in basically every way. This match almost had "perfect" stamped on it until Bret works on Austin's leg for a good 5 minutes or more, and Austin sells it for like 30 seconds... and then it's sort of an on again off again sell job. Anyway, I love this match, but I would be lying if I said that I had to watch it a few times before I understood why everyone else loved it. It grew on me, but I wasn't blown away the first time I saw it

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the HHH/Austin 3 stages of hell, though I loved it, seems to be a favorite of "over-ratedness" on this board.

Oh well.

I never understood the greatness that was Savage/Steamboat. It looked to me like a decent old school match with some good near falls. Call it around ****. Steele interferring didn't help matters.

you beat me to it lol

 

I don't agree with Savage and Steamboat though... I love that match

[Guest BANKYWOOD]

I don't understand the Kurt Angle hate...never will. Explain it to poor 'ol Banky, he's slow...eh.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I don't understand the Kurt Angle hate...never will. Explain it to poor 'ol Banky, he's slow...eh.

I'm with you... but I've found that most of the people I know who hate Kurt or find he's "overrated" are the Purowhores, so it doesn't bother me all that much

[Guest godthedog]

Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin WM XIII

 

I've mentioned this several times... don't get me wrong, I love this match. I really do. But it's not a perfect 5 star match, and I'll tell you why as I've mentioned before. For a match to rate 5 stars in MY mind, the match must be perfect in basically every way. This match almost had "perfect" stamped on it until Bret works on Austin's leg for a good 5 minutes or more, and Austin sells it for like 30 seconds... and then it's sort of an on again off again sell job. Anyway, I love this match, but I would be lying if I said that I had to watch it a few times before I understood why everyone else loved it. It grew on me, but I wasn't blown away the first time I saw it

it's debatable.

 

when austin takes over on offense (with a chairshot, IIRC), he clearly hobbles around, trying to walk it off & get the feeling back in his leg; he keeps up the big selling for another minute or so, then walks better as the pain subsides. and the pain doesn't come back till bret starts working the leg again. that, to me, is brilliant selling; it's a hell of a lot more realistic than getting your arm worked 10 minutes into the match & proceeding to sell it the exact same way for the next 15 minutes.

 

and angle's overrated because his selling is subpar. and by "overrated," i mean "one of the best in the company right now, but nowhere close to being one of the greatest of all time." see unforgiven 2001, or any match when he's put in the crippler crossface more than once.

 

as soon as i saw the topic, i knew it would turn into bret/hbk v. trips/rock, and i've said my peace about that so many times that i'm sick of the whole thing. so i'll just say that bret/flair makes both of them its bitch, and that'll be the end of it.

[Guest bravesfan]

[RE: Rock/Austin WM X-7] Most overrated match ever. ****-****1/4 maybe, but nowhere NEAR *****

 

SK gave it ****3/4, which I think is about right, with the rating deducted for the excessive ending (although it meant ALOT in the grand scheme of turning Austin heel).

 

All in all, it's the best match-up between the two, considering they had to top their three high-profile meetings at RAW 11.98, Mania XV and Backlash 1999.

[Guest bravesfan]

EDIT: Double post.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Kurt Angle is a great wrestler, but his psychology is a TEENY-TINY bit flawed at some points. I remember at Summerslam with the Angle/Rey match where Angle worked on the back(?) to set up the ankle lock. It was a very fun match to watch, but that's what I noticed about Angle.

[Guest DawnBTVS]

The biggest one for me is the "wrestling" match on Raw between Austin and Flair. It was okay, **ish but basically a chopfest throughout.

[Guest WhenDanSaysJump]

Some of the 96 WCW Cruiser matches haven't stood the test of time as well as expected.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I don't understand the Kurt Angle hate...never will.  Explain it to poor 'ol Banky, he's slow...eh.

I'm with you... but I've found that most of the people I know who hate Kurt or find he's "overrated" are the Purowhores, so it doesn't bother me all that much

Angle is overrated for some very valid reasons.

 

1) Selling and Psychology- AustinHHH pointed out one such instance but there have been many others. One such instance that I can also recall is the Smackdown 4 Way between Angle, Eddy, Edge and Benoit. The final came down to Edge and Angle and even though Edge's selling was horrendous, it became clear that his leg was fucked up real good, prime for an anklelock. How does Angle finish? A top-rope Angle slam, thus killing any of Edge's selling and all the work that was put into it. Angle also has a tendancy to wrestle a match, then "snap", pull the straps down and use the anklelock with very little buildup.

 

2) Style- This is a knock against Angle and it isn't a knock. The guy has only wrestled the WWE style but it's also not his fault because that's what Vince dictates should be and it's very known that Angle is a company man. At the same time, his fault or not, one style is one style. I'd like to think that he could wrestle different styles if given a chance but I doubt it.

 

3) Body of work- This ties in with style. Angle's body of work is only wrestling one style and his best matches are all against Chris Benoit. I don't doubt that if given the chance, buildup and time he could deliver some truly killer matches but that hasn't been the case so far and so long as he continues to be in the WWE, it probably never will be. I'd put his best match at Royal Rumble 2003 with Benoit, about ****1/2 or so. Many point out his SummerSlam match with Austin, which I totally dug but I was mainly into Austin's A+ heel tactics and the finish of the match marred it.

 

4) Character- Angle is a goofball. Plain and simple. The man has never been taken seriously in his WWE tenure, part of which can be attributed to his promo style. The constant voice-raising, goofy lingo and head shaking can make for a funny promo when the time is right but it is a deathknell if he's ever trying to cut a serious promo and hype a match.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I dont understand how anyone can say Savage vs. Steamboat is overrated in any way. That match was one of the greatest of all time

 

Mankind vs. Undertaker HIAC is very overrated. The match was boring as hell with the exception of 2 monster sized bumps.

[Guest Choken One]

I'm Going to go with one that hasn't been mentioned...

 

 

Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat. Chi-Town Rumble.

 

It has been PRAISED for years...I'd give it ****1/4 and that's it.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I'm Going to go with one that hasn't been mentioned...

 

 

Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat. Chi-Town Rumble.

 

It has been PRAISED for years...I'd give it ****1/4 and that's it.

I give it ***** but I prefer their 2/3 falls match

[Guest humanoid92]

Rock/Angle No Way Out 2001

Shawn/Diesel Good Friends, Better Enemies

Austin/Dude Love Over The Edge 1998

 

I think all those matches are really good, but I've seen them all rated at ****1/2 and up, and I don't think any really crack ****

 

HHH/Taka RAW 2000

Austin/Angle RAW, January 2001

 

I'm sure I could think of more from Raw, but I don't see what's special about these. I've seen Angle/Austin rated at **** and up and while it is a real solid match, I don't see how it cracks ***1/4.

 

And finally Rock/Booker Summerslam 2001. I know Keith had it at ***3/4 but I really didn't think it was anything special at all.

[Guest webmasterofwrestlegame]

There is another aspect to this topic which I find quite important in determining exactly how good a match is, and that is the degree to which the wrestlers plan for the match beforehand.

 

For example, I believe it was Jericho or someone that was talking about how good matches were, and he asked Steamboat which he though was better - his match vs. Savage at WM3 or his Chi Town Rumble match vs. Flair. Steamboat simply replied that his match with Savage was planned move for move (around 220 I believe), while his match with Flair was constructed on the fly with only a few spots and the finish known. He then asked Jericho (or whomever) to decide.

 

To this end, I'm pretty much generalising, but most people on this board could put together a good match on paper (executing is another thing). Wrestlers that can construct a match of great quality 'on the fly' are worthy of having a 'great match' tag moreso than a planned, methodical match. Of course, just my opinion.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

Shawn Michaels v Bret Hart - WM XII

Shawn Michaels v Davey Boy Smith - KotR '96

Shawn Michaels v Vader - SummerSlam '96

Shawn Michaels v Sid - Survivor Series '96

[Guest Celtic Jobber]

The TLC match from Raw in Las Vegas last year, to me it was just a sub-par (possibly the worst ever) TLC match, but it ended up being voted the "best Raw Match of all time" on that horrible Tenth Anniversary show.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

Probably because it was only major match on Raw where all the participants were able to appear on that putrid event.

[Guest BANKYWOOD]

I don't understand the Kurt Angle hate...never will.  Explain it to poor 'ol Banky, he's slow...eh.

I'm with you... but I've found that most of the people I know who hate Kurt or find he's "overrated" are the Purowhores, so it doesn't bother me all that much

Angle is overrated for some very valid reasons.

 

1) Selling and Psychology- AustinHHH pointed out one such instance but there have been many others. One such instance that I can also recall is the Smackdown 4 Way between Angle, Eddy, Edge and Benoit. The final came down to Edge and Angle and even though Edge's selling was horrendous, it became clear that his leg was fucked up real good, prime for an anklelock. How does Angle finish? A top-rope Angle slam, thus killing any of Edge's selling and all the work that was put into it. Angle also has a tendancy to wrestle a match, then "snap", pull the straps down and use the anklelock with very little buildup.

 

2) Style- This is a knock against Angle and it isn't a knock. The guy has only wrestled the WWE style but it's also not his fault because that's what Vince dictates should be and it's very known that Angle is a company man. At the same time, his fault or not, one style is one style. I'd like to think that he could wrestle different styles if given a chance but I doubt it.

 

3) Body of work- This ties in with style. Angle's body of work is only wrestling one style and his best matches are all against Chris Benoit. I don't doubt that if given the chance, buildup and time he could deliver some truly killer matches but that hasn't been the case so far and so long as he continues to be in the WWE, it probably never will be. I'd put his best match at Royal Rumble 2003 with Benoit, about ****1/2 or so. Many point out his SummerSlam match with Austin, which I totally dug but I was mainly into Austin's A+ heel tactics and the finish of the match marred it.

 

4) Character- Angle is a goofball. Plain and simple. The man has never been taken seriously in his WWE tenure, part of which can be attributed to his promo style. The constant voice-raising, goofy lingo and head shaking can make for a funny promo when the time is right but it is a deathknell if he's ever trying to cut a serious promo and hype a match.

Finally, someone explains the hatred. I appreciate the assistance, and I do see exactly what you are saying.

[Zetterberg is God 0]

HHH/Taka RAW 2000

Austin/Angle RAW, January 2001

 

I'm sure I could think of more from Raw, but I don't see what's special about these. I've seen Angle/Austin rated at **** and up and while it is a real solid match, I don't see how it cracks ***1/4.

The reason why both these matches were good, in my opinion, was that I knew who would win, but at points, I almost thought Taka or Austin could have won. The suspense built up in both matches was awesome.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

It has to be the Rocky/HHH Summerslam 98 ladder match for me, I thought it was maybe *** at best and certainly nowhere near the **** mark