Who wants to see Randy Orton pushed down our...

[Guest Anglesault]

Hey, at least WWE is pushing some of the younger talent, good for them.

They are just pushing young guys to push a young guy, without taking talent in account

[Guest razazteca]

Post counts are really meaningless, especially if a poster can, you know put some thought in a discussion.

 

Anglesault has over 10,000 posts... I think that says a lot

 

In the battle of words vs Foley, Randy looked outclassed by the superior Rassler, Foley. Randy looked like he was just repeating his lines that he memorizied a few hours earlier with HHH and Flair trying to keep Orton from losing his confidence.

 

I meant to say something related the other day, actually... You know the HHH / Foley "war of the words" on Raw, when Foley returned? Triple H came out with the same line he's been repeating for 3 1/2 years: "I retired Mick Foley."

 

Mick came right back with words from the heart, "...but you didn't KEEP me down." The difference between HHH's boring, repetitive "look how good I am" speech, and Foley's new, slightly bad ass, "don't fuck with me, son" attitude was incredible.

 

Nik

When Foley made the comment about the fake 4 Horsemen it seened like he meanted it. While Randy was like blah blah blah blah blah I look good blah blah blah blah blah I don't have to bump like a madman blah blah blah blah watch me take off my shirt while HHH acts gay pointing at my muscles.

[Guest Anglesault]

Amount of People HHH Put Over: 0

 

And now we have the situation we're at today - no new stars (which is to say, Benoit, Jericho still in the mid-card and Angle still a goof)

But that wasn't because of the push.

 

The push worked, like it or not. HHH is the asshole. Besides, if his quad injury had never happened and he was as good as he was in 2000/2001, then no one would have a problem with his current position in RAW.

I think what he meant was, in the end, heel pushes are meant to put a face over, so from that perspective, it bombed.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Amount of People HHH Put Over: 0

 

And now we have the situation we're at today - no new stars (which is to say, Benoit, Jericho still in the mid-card and Angle still a goof)

But that wasn't because of the push.

 

The push worked, like it or not. HHH is the asshole. Besides, if his quad injury had never happened and he was as good as he was in 2000/2001, then no one would have a problem with his current position in RAW.

I think what he meant was, in the end, heel pushes are meant to put a face over, so from that perspective, it bombed.

Well, if heel pushes are to get people OTHER THAN THE PERSON PUSHED over, then the WWE has done a PERFECT job with Kurt Angle thus far.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Exactly, they put all that hard work and effort in getting HHH over as a heel, and he didn't return the investment. Now they are doing it all over again and he hasn't returned that investment either (Booker).

[Guest GameCop]

I believe the "I don't want to be a wannable 4 horsemen" comment by Mick Foley may have been unscripted because HHH and Flair seemed very irked by it.

[Guest Anglesault]

The person being pushed and a new guy should both get over

 

ie. The ultimate goal of Angle's latest run was and should hav been to put Brock over at Wrestlemania. But you also have to build the heel up as the guy to beat.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

A heel is ultimately supposed to put over the face. It's like in Predator, they had it kill all the guys on the island to build it up as this huge badass. Now, if this was HHH, Predator would just kill Arnie, go back into Space, and come back a year later as the good guy. There is NO resolution.

[Guest razazteca]

believe the "I don't want to be a wannable 4 horsemen" comment by Mick Foley may have been unscripted because HHH and Flair seemed very irked by it.

 

Its called selling something that Randy Orton is clueless about.

[Guest Choken One]

There is an difference between HHH 1999 and Orton TODAY.

 

Triple H was already an established Upper Card player by the time WWE went with the GOD push Version One.

 

Keep in mind, Hunts and Stephanie weren't a item just yet so that means VINCE initally wanted to shove Triple H.

 

Triple H getting the GOD push wasn't offensive because he paid his dues by being a solid performer and being a major Merch mover with DX.

 

At first the Fans weren't buying the former Blue Blood/Frat Boy as this ASS KICKING cerebal assassian but they did...thanks to in part of Foley and HHH good work.

 

However, What has Randy Orton done to justify this GOD push? He came in and got no reaction as WWE went for the Blue Chipper V.2 gimmick with him and that bombed and Orton hurt his shoulder.

 

Orton gets this nice heel midcard gimmick with RNN. Nice little thing that keeps him in the scene while he was injured.

 

He comes back and is put with Flair and Hunt and Batista. He doesn't get over and hurts his ankle this time.

 

They keep him around as an occasional attacker and then he gets healed and he comes back and is all the SUDDEN the FUTURE of the company? it's not just flair and HHH putting him over but the FACE announcer conceding to that statement...

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh I agree, HHH deserved* his God push V. 1.0, my problem is with the fact that he didn't put anyone over with it and got another one in 02.

 

I am torn on this issue. I 'like' Orton (which is to say I don't hate him) but this push is so manufactured and there doesn't really seem to be a reason for it other than "he's young, he looks good, and he's a 3rd Gen. wrestler" rather than "he works hard, he has good matches, he has good promos, and he deserves it"

 

(*This could be debated also, but HHH did work** hard for his push)

 

(**By that I mean "roided up good" )

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I hate it when someone gets called "the future" with very little justification...

 

Yep.

 

Just annoys me.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

You can't blame Randy Orton. After all, he is a 3rd Generation Superstar.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

You can't blame Orton at all. It's not like he marched in after his foot healed and said, "Hey Vince, I'm the son of Bob Orton Jr., and my granddaddy is the original Bob Orton. I look good and am a 3rd generation wrestler. Put me in the top heel group, have the top heel and his manger put me over, have me duel with Mick Foley in a battle of words, and let me go over two legends in the next six months or I walk damnit!"

 

Vince decided this on his own. And at least in his own round-about way, HHH is TRYING to put someone over. I doubt Orton is going to say, this;

 

Orton - Trips, Vince, hey, thanks for thinking about me, but I'm going to go ahead and let you trade me to Smackdown for Benoit so those smarks on the net can cream their pants as he runs over HBK and Foley instead of me. Also, since I'm a heel and not on the level of Benoit, I'll just go on and take a job jobbing on Velocity so I can pay my dues.

 

HHH - ...-uh

 

Vince - Randy, YOU'RE FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRED!

 

Flair - Whooooooo!

[Guest Anglesault]

You can blame Randy for not being good.

[Guest OnlyMe]

uh... FBP... who's blaming Orton for his push?

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Orton getting a "GOD" push? What show have you guys been watching? He isn't getting that type of push at all. Right now he's pretty much being worked in slowly.

 

Wrestling Maven isn't what I call getting a "GOD" push.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

<<<You can't blame Orton at all. It's not like he marched in after his foot healed and said, "Hey Vince, I'm the son of Bob Orton Jr., and my granddaddy is the original Bob Orton. I look good and am a 3rd generation wrestler.>>>

 

If things can work out for the Rock, I'm sure things can work out for Randy. The guy has potential, just give him a chance. His matches last year weren't bad either.

[Guest Anglesault]

Orton getting a "GOD" push? What show have you guys been watching? He isn't getting that type of push at all. Right now he's pretty much being worked in slowly.

 

Wrestling Maven isn't what I call getting a "GOD" push.

Going over Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels (something Jericho wasn't allowed to do) in the span of two months is.

[Guest Anglesault]

If things can work out for the Rock, I'm sure things can work out for Randy.

Because Rock's situation is the norm in wrestling.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Orton getting a "GOD" push?  What show have you guys been watching?  He isn't getting that type of push at all.  Right now he's pretty much being worked in slowly.

 

Wrestling Maven isn't what I call getting a "GOD" push.

Going over Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels (something Jericho wasn't allowed to do) in the span of two months is.

A couple of sneak attacks don't warant saying he "went over" on them. It was just a couple of run ins to help a member of his stable.

 

I still don't see that his push is that great.

[Guest OnlyMe]

A couple of sneak attacks don't warant saying he "went over" on them.

 

Latest rumour is that Orton is going to beat HBK, and then Foley on PPV.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Before he was just doing Heat / Velocity duties. Now he's headlining RAW, that's taking quite the step. I like it.

[Guest Ghettoman]

I don't care, he doesn't suck and he's not great, which is expected when your in your first or second year. Considering he hasn't received any kind of push that would merit "hes being pushed down our throats", I don't get what the big deal is.

 

Lets wait until he's pushed somewhere to talk about his push, it just makes more sense.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

A couple of sneak attacks don't warant saying he "went over" on them.

 

Latest rumour is that Orton is going to beat HBK, and then Foley on PPV.

Well, a rumor is a rumor. I know whenever I post a rumor it gets taken about as serious as Richard Simmons at an NRA meeting.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I'm sorry. Orton won't fit down my throat no matter how hard they push.

 

Brock Lesnar is still occupying that space

[Guest OnlyMe]

I'm sorry. Orton won't fit down my throat no matter how hard they push.

 

Brock Lesnar is still occupying that space

 

You might want to rephrase that

 

Nik

[Guest UndertakerHart]

Orton getting a "GOD" push?  What show have you guys been watching?  He isn't getting that type of push at all.  Right now he's pretty much being worked in slowly.

 

Wrestling Maven isn't what I call getting a "GOD" push.

Going over Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels (something Jericho wasn't allowed to do) in the span of two months is.

A couple of sneak attacks don't warant saying he "went over" on them. It was just a couple of run ins to help a member of his stable.

 

I still don't see that his push is that great.

Jericho was the Undisputed champ for 4 months. What else do you want from the WWE. For Jericho to be undefeated for 4 years or be have a 5 year reign as champ. I'm sick of this. He has done everything in that company.

 

He has been the 1st Undisputed Champ, IC, Tag, Euro and Hardcore. This is being held down. He was semi responisble for HHH quad tear. (HHH shouldn't have dived like that)

 

 

He has a great segments (The Highlight Reel) on RAW and probably makes a million or more a year.

 

 

Poor Jericho! I'm boycotting RAW.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Yeah.

 

Remember Jericho's title reign?

 

He won the title at Vengeance 2001...when the event was built around "Will it come down to Rock vs. Austin???"

 

Then there was the Rumble where HHH's return was the big deal.

 

Then No Way Out where the NWO was made teh selling point.

 

Then Mania...with Hogan vs. Rock getting the coverage...and Jericho picking up dog shit.

 

Yeah...looking back it's easy to see they gave it their best effort.

 

Oh well...at least since losing the title Jericho has stayed in the top programs...

 

...

 

...

 

 

...hey...he never got his one on one rematch that I thought all contracts had?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

You know what? I hope WWE pushes Orton to the moon. His match with Maven was good and I think he'll certainly amount into a better all-round wrestler in coming months.