My favorite squash match

[LooseCannon25 0]

Look....I understand what you guys are saying......he's by no means a great wrestler and i'm not his greatest fan either. But, i think he gets a little unfair treatment here cause smarks are so deadset to be against anything he does. WWE invseted a lot of money towards him so what do you guys expect them to do? Job him out? If they can part ways with him without paying then thats great...money saved for them, but until then they have to do something with the guy at the top of the card.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I wonder how long the WWE will go with the random squash matches.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Look....I understand what you guys are saying......he's by no means a great wrestler and i'm not his greatest fan either. But, i think he gets a little unfair treatment here cause smarks are so deadset to be against anything he does. WWE invseted a lot of money towards him so what do you guys expect them to do? Job him out? If they can part ways with him without paying then thats great...money saved for them, but until then they have to do something with the guy at the top of the card.

But why would you keep him at the top of your card when he's essentially losing money for the company? If he's a shit drawer, then he shouldn't be at the top, no matter what. You don't see Mark Henry at the top of the card because he has a high priced contract, do you?

[Guest bob_barron]

Teddy Long did not have a good Monday.

 

2 Matches..56 seconds of wrestling- 0-2

[LooseCannon25 0]

Look....I understand what you guys are saying......he's by no means a great wrestler and i'm not his greatest fan either.  But, i think he gets a little unfair treatment here cause smarks are so deadset to be against anything he does.  WWE invseted a lot of money towards him so what do you guys expect them to do?  Job him out?  If they can part ways with him without paying then thats great...money saved for them, but until then they have to do something with the guy at the top of the card.

But why would you keep him at the top of your card when he's essentially losing money for the company? If he's a shit drawer, then he shouldn't be at the top, no matter what. You don't see Mark Henry at the top of the card because he has a high priced contract, do you?

No, but i see a guy named Triple H at the top of the card, the world champion, and he hasn't drawn shit in a year. You dont see them pushing HIS ass down the card.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Look....I understand what you guys are saying......he's by no means a great wrestler and i'm not his greatest fan either.   But, i think he gets a little unfair treatment here cause smarks are so deadset to be against anything he does.  WWE invseted a lot of money towards him so what do you guys expect them to do?  Job him out?  If they can part ways with him without paying then thats great...money saved for them, but until then they have to do something with the guy at the top of the card.

But why would you keep him at the top of your card when he's essentially losing money for the company? If he's a shit drawer, then he shouldn't be at the top, no matter what. You don't see Mark Henry at the top of the card because he has a high priced contract, do you?

No, but i see a guy named Triple H at the top of the card, the world champion, and he hasn't drawn shit in a year. You dont see them pushing HIS ass down the card.

I'm am not justifying Triple H being the champ and top star by saying that Goldberg shouldn't be at the top. Neither should be at the top. End of story.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Rock has drawn record breaking buyrates in the past, is an entertaining character, puts over anyone and everyone, and puts on quality matches- so he gets let off the hook.

A bit about the Rock and putting over.

 

Rock has put over most of the people put in front of him with some exceptions.

 

Booker T- he didn't put him over at Summerslam or Unforgiven during the Invasion. Booker actually had more momentum before he entered his program with Rock. Rock did not put Booker over in any way.

 

Goldberg-yeah, he jobbed, but he didn't put him over. He took the match non chalantly and put himself over as the great entertainer and totally punked Goldberg out in the buildup except when they first met. Rock worked the match and jobbed, but he did not put him over, IMO. Jobbing and putting over, 2 distinctly different things.

[Guest Anglesault]

Look....I understand what you guys are saying......he's by no means a great wrestler and i'm not his greatest fan either. But, i think he gets a little unfair treatment here cause smarks are so deadset to be against anything he does. WWE invseted a lot of money towards him so what do you guys expect them to do? Job him out?

I expect Bill Goldberg to hold up his end of the bargain and get people interested again. Kevin Nash did a better job on his PPV. Goldberg has failed. End of story.

 

The buildup sucked and they had Rock take the match very non chalantly. If Rock doesn't appear to care about the match, why should the fans?

 

Rock, like Jericho, spent a good deal of the time running away. And again, like Jericho, Goldberg sold none of his attacks.

 

But because he onlt left Rock, the biggest star in the company, in a crumpled heap ONCE, he's getting booked terribly.

[Guest Anglesault]

Look....I understand what you guys are saying......he's by no means a great wrestler and i'm not his greatest fan either.   But, i think he gets a little unfair treatment here cause smarks are so deadset to be against anything he does.  WWE invseted a lot of money towards him so what do you guys expect them to do?  Job him out?  If they can part ways with him without paying then thats great...money saved for them, but until then they have to do something with the guy at the top of the card.

But why would you keep him at the top of your card when he's essentially losing money for the company? If he's a shit drawer, then he shouldn't be at the top, no matter what. You don't see Mark Henry at the top of the card because he has a high priced contract, do you?

No, but i see a guy named Triple H at the top of the card, the world champion, and he hasn't drawn shit in a year. You dont see them pushing HIS ass down the card.

So rectify the situation by replacing him with ANOTHER proven failure. That's the ticket.

[Guest bob_barron]

Rock isn't perfect.

 

I wish they had never booked that handicapped match for Unforgiven- That was a total no-win situation. You can't blame Rock for that.

 

Rock did put Booker T over leading to Summerslam (He did two jobs to him) and Booker T got a lot of offense in the actual match.

 

With Goldberg-

 

I think Rock is just so damn entertaining that the crowd just didn't want to see Goldberg kick his ass. Austin is a much better foil for Rock

[Guest Anglesault]

I wish they had never booked that handicapped match for Unforgiven- That was a total no-win situation. You can't blame Rock for that.

Is there a reason he didn't pin Shane in that match?

[Guest Dangerous A]

You are right AS in that Goldberg should be held accountable for his poor buyrate.

 

However, a part of that poor buyrate was presentation. Nash's program was better presented than Goldberg's. Just because Rock was in it doesn't make the program good. Rock's 2 program's before Goldberg's (Hogan and Austin) sucked fat ass too.

 

Bottom Line: some of the blame should be on presentation. That is why Angle can't draw right now, correct?

[Guest bob_barron]

I wish they had never booked that handicapped match for Unforgiven- That was a total no-win situation. You can't blame Rock for that.

Is there a reason he didn't pin Shane in that match?

Booker T

Shane McMahon

 

It's all in the last name AS

[LooseCannon25 0]

Yeah, he didnt sell Rock's attacks well at all......he only did a fuckin 360 when Rock hit him on the head with a chair.

 

and saying Nash did a better job on his ppv then Goldberg is such a ignorant statement i dont even have to justify it. You think Nash brought all those buy rates in? Negative, I say it was HELL IN A CELL that did the trick for that. Give Goldberg a HIAC match and the numbers would be different.

[Guest Anglesault]

Bottom Line: some of the blame should be on presentation. That is why Angle can't draw right now, correct?

Angle hasn't been booked as a monster who sells nothing and sends top heels running.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I'll put 75% of the responsibility on the WWE and 25% on Goldberg.

 

The WWE really fucked up with him. In 10 minutes I'm sure everyone here could come up with 10 different ways of bringing Goldberg in that would have been significantly better than what Vince did. Goldberg's schtick works - everyone loves an ass kicker - and Bill pulls it off pretty well. However, Bill also doesn't work to improve his ability in the ring, and his pseudo-shootfighter dealie just isn't doin it for me. I mean, god, those are horrible knees, Wanderlei would be spinning in his grave if he wasn't still alive. After awhile he'll get exposed to the crowd (he already has, really, but its recoverable cause no one watches when he is on PPV anyways ) and then even his ass-kicker gimmick won't matter.

[Guest bob_barron]

Yeah, he didnt sell Rock's attacks well at all......he only did a fuckin 360 when Rock hit him on the head with a chair.

 

and saying Nash did a better job on his ppv then Goldberg is such a ignorant statement i dont even have to justify it. You think Nash brought all those buy rates in? Negative, I say it was HELL IN A CELL that did the trick for that. Give Goldberg a HIAC match and the numbers would be different.

I think he was referring to Judgement Day. I'm thinking Hogan v. Piper, the stretcher match, the battle royal and the ladder match were the selling points.

 

5.5.03 killed Nash v. HHH

[Guest Anglesault]

Yeah, he didnt sell Rock's attacks well at all......he only did a fuckin 360 when Rock hit him on the head with a chair.

he was back up before the segment was over.

 

and saying Nash did a better job on his ppv then Goldberg is such a ignorant statement i dont even have to justify it.  You think Nash brought all those buy rates in?  Negative, I say it was HELL IN A CELL that did the trick for that.  Give Goldberg a HIAC match and the numbers would be different.

 

Judgment Day. I haven't heard any Bad Blood buyrates yet.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Goldberg doesn't work house shows either - that's a big (-) there.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I'll put 75% of the responsibility on the WWE and 25% on Goldberg.

 

The WWE really fucked up with him. In 10 minutes I'm sure everyone here could come up with 10 different ways of bringing Goldberg in that would have been significantly better than what Vince did. Goldberg's schtick works - everyone loves an ass kicker - and Bill pulls it off pretty well. However, Bill also doesn't work to improve his ability in the ring, and his pseudo-shootfighter dealie just isn't doin it for me. I mean, god, those are horrible knees, Wanderlei would be spinning in his grave if he wasn't still alive. After awhile he'll get exposed to the crowd (he already has, really, but its recoverable cause no one watches when he is on PPV anyways ) and then even his ass-kicker gimmick won't matter.

I agree with you completely....goldberg does deserve some of the fault but not all of it. He has been presented softly right now. If they continue what they did Monday with him then he will get extremey over again. If Kurt Angle would headline Vengeance and it would do a bad buyrate then Anglesault would be complaining that the reason it didnt do good numbers was because Angle was booked badly. However, if people say Goldberg's numbers are bad because he was booked badly it's incorrect to AS and he's a complete failure. If that's not a double edge sword i dont know what is.

 

 

BTW RRR, are you ready to see Vanderlei get his ass handed to him by The Rampage?

[Guest Dangerous A]

Bottom Line: some of the blame should be on presentation. That is why Angle can't draw right now, correct?

Angle hasn't been booked as a monster who sells nothing and sends top heels running.

But what I'm saying is that if Angle was presented as something competent and not a bumbling fool or a bitch who needs run ins to be saved, perhaps the audience could get behind Kurt and, oh I don't know, pay money to see him wrestle?

 

RRR is right. The ass kicker is one of the easiest gimmicks to pull off and WWE screwed that up when they put that stupid wig on his head and had him talking to people in the back like it was just a good old day in the sun. If they would've presented him as someone special who isnt fraternizining in the back and is above the wig on the head type treatment, perhaps some fans would've given 2 shits about Goldberg.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Yeah, he didnt sell Rock's attacks well at all......he only did a fuckin 360 when Rock hit him on the head with a chair.

he was back up before the segment was over.

 

and saying Nash did a better job on his ppv then Goldberg is such a ignorant statement i dont even have to justify it.  You think Nash brought all those buy rates in?  Negative, I say it was HELL IN A CELL that did the trick for that.  Give Goldberg a HIAC match and the numbers would be different.

 

Judgment Day. I haven't heard any Bad Blood buyrates yet.

Would you rather he get carried out in an ambulance or stretcher?

 

and if you're talking about Judgment Day than i can easily see the selling points were the LAdder MAtch, Stretcher MAtch, IC Battle Royal, AND Hogan vs. Piper

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Here's a problem they will have to deal with - Rodney Mack was really the only (almost) well-developed heel on Raw aside from HHH. Like, he actually had been booked strong for the past couple of months, so even though no one took him seriously, they took him MORE seriously than guys like Stevie Richards or Christian.

 

The only thing they can go to now is a feud with Kane - and that's gonna SUCK in the ring. I figure we'll see Kane vs. RVD at a "very special Raw" and then Kane will beat up Booker, and then Goldberg will come out to prevent any further harm leading to an ~intense~ staredown (though nowhere nearly as intense as Wanderlei's ) and the subsequent match (perhaps with matching "clearing of the ring"). All of which leads to Kane vs. Goldberg at Summerslam and Goldberg vs. HHH at Unforgiven.

 

((I love Silva... but I loooooooove Rampage I'm not going to make a call on the potential fight - and that's because I seriously don't know who's gonna win.... though Jackson does seem to be unstoppable at this moment in time.))

[LooseCannon25 0]

RRR, just another question (sorry to get off topic guys) On the Pride Dvd's do you know if the entrances are edited outof almost all of them. Cause i have Pride 10 and it has full entrances, but Pride 17, 20 don't have them at all. Just when i was getting ready to see Gilbert Yvel, Heath Herrings, and Vanderlei's etrances

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I only have one Pride DVD (9 - stupid, stupid, stupid me... sigh, was I ever so young ) and IIRC (since I don't watch it that often cause it SUCKS) it has entrances in it. So maybe it's the later versions that don't have them - it would be best to ask on an MMA board like Sherdog.

 

It's a shame that P20 doesn't have entrances on it cause Ninja's fucking owned. (as did Sperry... such calmness about him)

[Guest Anglesault]

Bottom Line: some of the blame should be on presentation. That is why Angle can't draw right now, correct?

Angle hasn't been booked as a monster who sells nothing and sends top heels running.

But what I'm saying is that if Angle was presented as something competent and not a bumbling fool or a bitch who needs run ins to be saved, perhaps the audience could get behind Kurt and, oh I don't know, pay money to see him wrestle?

And this has happened to Goldberg...when?

 

Would you rather he get carried out in an ambulance or stretcher?

 

Would have been nice of him to wait for the cameras to stop rolling.

 

If Kurt Angle would headline Vengeance and it would do a bad buyrate then Anglesault would be complaining that the reason it didnt do good numbers was because Angle was booked badly. However, if people say Goldberg's numbers are bad because he was booked badly it's incorrect to AS and he's a complete failure. If that's not a double edge sword i dont know what is.

 

Angle is an incompetant. Goldberg is a monster that everyone runs away from and nobody can hurt with any weapon.

[Adam 0]

I was overjoyed to see Rodney Mack pinned in less than 30 seconds. FGB's Backlash match was mediocre, and he should have done a whole lot more. I enjoyed his Jericho match alot more than I thought I would, and even more if Jericho had of gone over. I don;t like the man that much, but he is over in MSG, so thats gotta count for something.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I wish they had never booked that handicapped match for Unforgiven- That was a total no-win situation. You can't blame Rock for that.

Is there a reason he didn't pin Shane in that match?

Because it would have been like The Rock pinning Vince McMahon at King of the Ring to win the World Title. People would have bitched about how Shane was int he match so Rock coudln't beat Booker cleanly, or something.

 

And Goldberg can do no right, and these threads are only there for the 'Oh, Fuck Goldberg...BWA HA HA' ers to commence bitching. We've heard it all before, and I for one don't need to keep hearing it in every thread.

[Guest AndrewTS]

It's not true that I'll hate Goldberg no matter what. If he learns to wrestle and shows a willingness to improve his ring work, develops a better attitude, works house shows, offers to take a lower pay, learns to sell, stops crying foul at any angle that makes him look slightly vulnerable, and doesn't squash the few Raw wrestlers I actually like, I could learn to enjoy watching him.

[Guest DarkHollywood]

I don't hate Goldberg, but I don't care to watch him.

 

Maybe if he stopped cutting sub-par promos and learned more than 3 moves...(Powerslam, Spear, Jackhammer) then maybe I'd care, but I don't.

 

The Main Reason I wanted to see backlash was the six man tag, not Suckberg taking up main event time.

 

On the 3 moves thing, thats kind of stupid since I cheer for Hulk Hogan.

 

Goldberg was pushed as GOD by everyone when he debuted, and his Debut at Backlash was hyped more than almost all the other matches combined...and it bombed.