Brethart.com statement re: Shawn's comments on Raw

[Guest JMA]

You could say the same thing about Bret Hart.

Yes, you could. I don't deny that.

[LooseCannon25 0]

They're all assholes (Vince, Bret, Shawn)

 

End of discussion

[Guest godthedog]

Bret was better at scientific wrestling. But Shawn was more well rounded.

whoa there, tiger. let's not say something we'll regret later.

[Guest jester]

the fact that he does wear religious shirts to the ring should tell you that he is serious about the religion.  As far as hurting Bret's feelings by rehashing it,  why should he have such concern for Bret's feelings?

Because if he is serious about his religion, don't you think he should be mindful of other people's feelings?

 

Look what's happened to Bret Hart since. Wouldn't a more moral person say "Look, let's not do this, or at the very least phone him up and see if he minds."

 

Their not friends, and Bret hates him no matter what.

 

The Bible tells you to love your enemy. I would hope that if his conversion is genuine, Micheals would know and live by this.

 

Also why would Vince tell him to be a Satan Worshiper? He's just doing what the writers wrote, he's not going to go out of his way to not do what the writers want just so he can preserve 'Bret's feelings'.

 

You're missing the point. If he is "just doing what I'm told," I am asking would he have no problem doing a Satan worshipping gimmick, if that's what the writers wanted? Or a gimmick where he drinks like a fiend, or has sex with 1500 women, and other things he's not supposed to do? After all, it's not real. It's only a character. Yet I suspect he'd object to doing such these angle because of his "beliefs."

 

But if all he has to do is pick on Bret Hart, well, his God doesn't seem to mind that.

 

Actually, his being with WWE period calls the whole religious conversion into question. Look at how sleazy the business is. If you were a devoutly religious person who knew what went on, wouldn't you avoid that environment? Especially if you've given into its tempations before?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Once again, Shawns character has nothing to do with his religious beliefs. Whether he puts over young talent or not is not going to affect him praying to God.

 

Just because he goes around advertising he's a Holy Man doesn't excuse him from being an asshole or his past deeds.

[Guest OnlyMe]

Just because he goes around advertising he's a Holy Man doesn't excuse him from being an asshole or his past deeds.

 

Have you never heard of seeking forgiveness?

 

I'm not saying that Shawn has found God; nor am I saying he hasn't. I'm just saying that people can get forgiveness from God and repent their sins.

 

Nik

(who doesn't believe Shawn or God)

[KTID 0]

Wade Keller on Bret-Vince screwjob

 

Read this, it should provide some insight

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I think it would have worked best if like HHH came out and hit Bret with the belt or something so that Shawn could have gotten the pinfall victory to become the new WWE Champion. So in essence, Bret would have still lost and still would have been screwed, but the reprocussions wouldn't have been so bad and so memorable.

Edited July 10, 2003 by Rico_Constantino

[Guest JMA]

I didn't really like Keller's aticle. He can put whatever spin he wants on the situation. The fact is it was an underhanded and dishonest thing to do. I know McMahon thinks he did it for the "greater good," but I don't buy it. He was a fool to pressed Bret to leave. What kind of moron encourages Bret Hart to work for the competition? And of course, in that AOL chat transcript, Vince thinks he knows what's best for us.

[Guest JMA]

Here's what I think should have happened. Shawn jobs cleanly to Bret at SS97 like he should have jobbed at WM. The next night on RAW, Bret "loses his smile," vacates the title, and leaves the WWF.

[Guest CanadianChris]

Here's what I think should have happened. Shawn jobs cleanly to Bret at SS97 like he should have jobbed at WM. The next night on RAW, Bret "loses his smile," vacates the title, and leaves the WWF.

And devalues the title in the public's eyes, since under that scenario, Eric Bischoff could (and would) say that no one ever beat Bret for the title, and whoever was WWF champ was second-rate.

[Guest JMA]

And devalues the title in the public's eyes, since under that scenario, Eric Bischoff could (and would) say that no one ever beat Bret for the title, and whoever was WWF champ was second-rate.

True. But it would pay Michaels back for not wanting to job at WM. And I doubt it would devalue the title too much. Once Austin got the belt everything would have been smooth sailing.

[Guest Askewniverse]

Here's what I think should have happened. Shawn jobs cleanly to Bret at SS97 like he should have jobbed at WM. The next night on RAW, Bret "loses his smile," vacates the title, and leaves the WWF.

And devalues the title in the public's eyes, since under that scenario, Eric Bischoff could (and would) say that no one ever beat Bret for the title, and whoever was WWF champ was second-rate.

Isn't that the exact reason why Vince "screwed" Bret?

[Guest bob_barron]

And devalues the title in the public's eyes, since under that scenario, Eric Bischoff could (and would) say that no one ever beat Bret for the title, and whoever was WWF champ was second-rate.

True. But it would pay Michaels back for not wanting to job at WM. And I doubt it would devalue the title too much. Once Austin got the belt everything would have been smooth sailing.

Never book a wrestling federation please.

 

Yes- let's pay Shawn back for faking an injury and then cause the title's value to lose even more prestige.

 

Why book your federation based on pettiness? That's just stupid

[Guest CanadianChris]

Here's what I think should have happened. Shawn jobs cleanly to Bret at SS97 like he should have jobbed at WM. The next night on RAW, Bret "loses his smile," vacates the title, and leaves the WWF.

And devalues the title in the public's eyes, since under that scenario, Eric Bischoff could (and would) say that no one ever beat Bret for the title, and whoever was WWF champ was second-rate.

Isn't that the exact reason why Vince "screwed" Bret?

Bingo.

[Guest JMA]

Never book a wrestling federation please.

I never planned to.

 

Yes- let's pay Shawn back for faking an injury and then cause the title's value to lose even more prestige.

He never was paid back for it. Unless you count the back injury Taker gave him.

 

Why book your federation based on pettiness? That's just stupid

I don't think it's stupid to make people pay the price for the wrongs they have done. Shawn should have been jobbed out when it was discovered he was faking.

[Guest JMA]

Let me propose this question. Was it right for Ric Flair to come on WWF television with the big gold belt? Jim Herd was an asshole, and an idiot, but was it right to do what he did? Didn't it greatly devalue the title? It seems Vince had no problem with a wrestler bringing in a world title from another promotion. Vince was just afraid Bischoff would be as unscrupulous as he was.

 

Edit: And yes, I'm well aware of the deposit.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Don't you get it, it's bigger than ego, it's fate. If Shawn did the job at WM13, Austin wouldn't of faced Bret in the classic double turn match. Who knows what direction the WWF would of gone in than. Everything happened so that Austin could lead the WWF to the promised land (big business). Well anythings possible.

 

Since he didn't do the job, let's make him pay at SS97....riiight. That's the dumbest booking logic I've ever heard. SS97 was about Vince and Bret, not making Shawn pay for his past sins. It's not petty, it's just not smart. Shawn jobbing to Bret and than vacating the title would of certainly put a smile on Bischoffs face.

 

It all could of been avoided if Bret did the job in Detroit. Than they could of gone through with the DQ ending and he could gave his speech the next night. Both guys were selfish. Vince was tyring to protect his company, and Hart was trying to protect his character. In that sense, Vince's actions are justified.

[Guest CanadianChris]

It seems Vince had no problem with a wrestler bringing in a world title from another promotion. Vince was just afraid Bischoff would be as unscrupulous as he was.

Yeah, but there was one key difference...Vince was nowhere near as monumentally stupid as Jim Herd. It didn't have anything to do with scruples...hell, we all knew Bischoff would do anything he could against Vince. Business is business, and business is cutthroat.

[Guest JMA]

Don't you get it, it's bigger than ego, it's fate. If Shawn did the job at WM13, Austin wouldn't of faced Bret in the classic double turn match. Who knows what direction the WWF would of gone in than. Everything happened so that Austin could lead the WWF to the promised land (big business). Well anythings possible.

 

Since he didn't do the job, let's make him pay at SS97....riiight. That's the dumbest booking logic I've ever heard. SS97 was about Vince and Bret, not making Shawn pay for his past sins. It's not petty, it's just not smart. Shawn jobbing to Bret and than vacating the title would of certainly put a smile on Bischoffs face.

 

It all could of been avoided if Bret did the job in Detroit. Than they could of gone through with the DQ ending and he could gave his speech the next night. Both guys were selfish. Vince was tyring to protect his company, and Hart was trying to protect his character. In that sense, Vince's actions are justified.

I don't believe in fate, first of all. The whole situation could and WOULD have been avoided if Shawn had done his job at WrestleMania. Austin would have eventually turned even without the match. That was the way the business was heading. The "anti-hero" was becomming popular again. Just look at how fans were into the heel Sid.

[chaosrage 0]

I didn't really like Keller's aticle. He can put whatever spin he wants on the situation. The fact is it was an underhanded and dishonest thing to do. I know McMahon thinks he did it for the "greater good," but I don't buy it. He was a fool to pressed Bret to leave. What kind of moron encourages Bret Hart to work for the competition?

 

Again, not too much of one since business soared after he left.

 

I don't think it's stupid to make people pay the price for the wrongs they have done. Shawn should have been jobbed out when it was discovered he was faking.

 

See, the problem with that is it was never discovered. Bret just assumed he was.

[chaosrage 0]

McMahon wrote a script Bret wasn't in on and deceived Bret beforehand. That's it. And he did so in order to take back what was his - a piece of leather and metal that represents a "worked" championship. It's McMahon's property and I don't believe it was "unreasonable" for him to ask Bret to lose the belt to his rival in Canada. (At the time of the match, Bret was getting along with Michaels enough to dress in the same room with him.) Bret's comments about protecting his image in Canada doesn't fly with me. He could have survived doing the job. And if Bret doesn't think Canadian fans could have survived him losing, he proves his critics right - he takes himself and worked outcomes way too seriously.

 

Quoted because it's so dead on people need to read it twice.

[Guest JMA]

Again, not too much of one since business soared after he left.

You're saying it was a smart idea to let a talent as talented as Hart go? You don't intentionally give your competition one of your most talented stars. The sad fact is McMahon had used Bret up. When he had no more use for him he threw him away.

[Guest JMA]

I guess Bret's main problem is that he was too trusting. Personally, I would have left in '96 if I were Bret. I also wonder what would've happened if Herd screwed over Flair like McMahon screwed over Hart.

[Guest CanadianChris]

Again, not too much of one since business soared after he left.

You're saying it was a smart idea to let a talent as talented as Hart go? You don't intentionally give your competition one of your most talented stars. The sad fact is McMahon had used Bret up. When he had no more use for him he threw him away.

There was more than that. Bret was very vocally against the direction that Vince wanted to take the WWF. Vince decided that Bret was going to be an obstacle to him getting his company over the hump, not to mention the mammoth contract Vince very ill-advisedly signed. I think it's true that Bret had no place in where the WWF was going, but I don't think Vince was entirely to blame. I don't think anyone was to blame in that regard.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

There was more than that. Bret was very vocally against the direction that Vince wanted to take the WWF.

 

You can't blame Bret for it. He was a great role model. The man had morals, but granted Vince opened the door to maturity to expand business and get more money. Then again, when you got 5 year old kids running around doing crotch chops and saying "Suck it!" nowadays, I can see why Bret didn't want the company he worked so hard to go down the darkside mainly because he was concerned as a parent. I'm glad just Bret didn't trade his dignity for dollars although I wish he did take Vince's offer of special guest refering the Jericho / HHH match at WM XVIII it would have been nice.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Vince offered the contract, Vince broke the contract, Vince set up the screw job, Vince benefited from it.

 

Vince _wanted_ it to happen. None of this "backed into a corner" , "Protecting his company" , "Time honoured tradition" BULLSHIT, Vince _wanted_ to screw Bret and he _wanted_ the controversy surrounding it.

 

That's what the Attitude era was all about.

[Guest bob_barron]

Why_do_you_type_like_this_Rudo?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I _don't_ type like that.

[Guest Dangerous A]

*sees thread is now 7 pages long*

 

 

DA (in Freddy Krueger voice): WHY WON'T YOU DIE!!!!!!!