Guest RollingSambos Posted August 13, 2003 Report Posted August 13, 2003 I respect the hell out of what Ric Flair has accomplished in the business, but I've never been a big fan of his. And no, it's not because of the "Flair formula" and him wrestling the same exact match for 30 years and still being considered a great worker or having schizo ring psychology...although those are good anti-Flair arguments. My problem with Flair has always been that I can't take him seriously. He never looked like a champion to me, even in his so-called prime. He looked like a guy that I or my friends could take. It really has nothing to do with him being under 6'4"...I think that Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, etc. all look like champions and I am huge fans of all of those guys. Ric Flair - to me - always looked like a feeble old man with loose skin and peroxide hair, even in 1985. When Benoit chops, I cringe because you can just tell (with his build) that it would kill. When Flair chops - even though he's chopped hard enough to make people's chests bleed - I can't help but think, "Bitch slap." Anybody else have this problem with Flair?
WrestlingDeacon Posted August 13, 2003 Report Posted August 13, 2003 You obviously haven't seen many Flair matches pre his WWF run, as he was pretty cut for a bulk of his run in the NWA. Particulary check out Starrcade '88, which I believe is as buff as I've ever seen him. And if you look around from the time period where Flair was a major champion and championship threat there were guys in a lot worse shape and looks, Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes, who were champions.
Steviekick Posted August 13, 2003 Report Posted August 13, 2003 Flair's build never really bothered me. Becaue he's not physically impressive, it really makes all his cheating/heelishness make sense. He has to be crafty out of necessity.
Guest Stennick Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 Yeah I have to agree, I think the things I liked about Flair had little to do with his in ring work they were as follows. A. The man could talk, anybody that has seen ANY amount of Flair knows the man can sell a match with anyone, he's outstanding and as a pro wrestler I try to work a lot of my promo style off of Flair's slow build, it a screaming rant at times! Great talker, his voice sometimes got a bit hard to understand, but great at promo's. B. All of his cheating, the man was always cheating, always finding new ways to cheat. I think that's what I liked about him, he wasn't just having guys run in his match (although he would do that) he would cheat for himself, thats something that Hogan should have done more of when the copied Flair's gimmick in '96 and became the "hollywood nature boy" Hulk Flair. I loved his little things eye gouges, low blows, blind referee spots, I loved it. C. Although it did get annoying after a while I think he did the "Chris Jericho WWE title run gimmick" to were he always came out on top for whatever reason, even when it looked like he was going to lose for sure. I call it the chris Jericho gimmick because he beat guys like Rock, Stone Cold, to hold onto his title when you felt like any week the WWE was going to rip it away. A little bit different but I still liked how you always felt his run was done but he always had ONE last thing up his sleeve. D. The Wrestling/Gang, this was the first time I was introduced to a real "wrestling gang type thoughts of wrestling", the Horsemen were the first stable I ever saw totally beat the hell out of a guy in a parking lot, everything Flair and the Horsemen did, Hogan and the nWo did 15 years after the Horsemen did it. E. He always looked the part of a champion, you had guys wearing tear away shirts, bandanna's, neon spandex, cowboy hats, unhuman like muscles, Flair on the other hand, always was wearing a suit, looking how a man should look if he's representing an entire company, he mixed up his outfits, and his ropes. Different colors instead of the same orange tights every show. He wore expensive jewelery, etc. I think he always looked like he was a great champion. In ring wise, I can't say he was the best, he certainly was believable though. Those five reasons are why I view Flair as a great wrestler.
Internet Warfare Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 E. He always looked the part of a champion, you had guys wearing tear away shirts, bandanna's, neon spandex, cowboy hats, unhuman like muscles, Flair on the other hand, always was wearing a suit, looking how a man should look if he's representing an entire company, he mixed up his outfits, and his ropes. Different colors instead of the same orange tights every show. He wore expensive jewelery, etc. I think he always looked like he was a great champion. Word life to that.
PLAGIARISM! Posted August 17, 2003 Report Posted August 17, 2003 Part of my love for Flair is that he made a career out of getting his ass handed to him.
Guest Agent of Oblivion Posted August 17, 2003 Report Posted August 17, 2003 Flair not look like a champion? Are you nuts? The man oozes charisma, is always impeccably dressed and adorned in women and gold. His attitude completely makes all of it believable, too. No matter what he lacked in physicality and athleticism, he had in spades in terms of presence and conditioning. The guy would wrestle several broadway draws a week.. With that style, there's no way it would be advantageous to have rippling huge muscles and unnecessary bulk.
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted August 20, 2003 Report Posted August 20, 2003 For christ's sake man......Flair could work a broom to at least ***.
AndrewTS Posted August 20, 2003 Report Posted August 20, 2003 I agree, but only because the first time I saw Flair wrestling it was in WCW in 1997. At that time I thought it was laughable to have a guy who looked like such a geezer as one of your top stars. Ditto for Hogan, of course. I hadn't had a chance to appreciate Flair as a worker, though.
Guest The Real Nosferatu Posted August 21, 2003 Report Posted August 21, 2003 Can SOMEONE Explain this Flair/Gigante *** match to me? Or point me to a review of it, cause I keep hearing about it but no one ever mentions details.
AndrewTS Posted August 21, 2003 Report Posted August 21, 2003 (edited) Can SOMEONE Explain this Flair/Gigante *** match to me? Or point me to a review of it, cause I keep hearing about it but no one ever mentions details. I don't get it either. R. D. Reynolds, a HUGE Flair fan, claimed the match(es?) with El Gigante were proof that there were some guys even Flair couldn't carry. I doubt he could do have done it with Nathan Jones, either. Edited August 21, 2003 by AndrewTS
Guest Choken One Posted August 21, 2003 Report Posted August 21, 2003 Actually...The match is a urban Myth.
Steviekick Posted August 21, 2003 Report Posted August 21, 2003 E. He always looked the part of a champion, you had guys wearing tear away shirts, bandanna's, neon spandex, cowboy hats, unhuman like muscles, Flair on the other hand, always was wearing a suit, looking how a man should look if he's representing an entire company, he mixed up his outfits, and his ropes. Different colors instead of the same orange tights every show. He wore expensive jewelery, etc. I think he always looked like he was a great champion. Word life to that. Damn skippy.
Guest The Real Nosferatu Posted August 21, 2003 Report Posted August 21, 2003 Actually...The match is a urban Myth. Oh....Like getting a wedgie that needs to be surgically removed from your lungs. Using El Gigante as your measuring stick of being a talented wrestler makes even the worst wrestler look great. Nailz = had same move set as Gigante. Choke, choke, Weak Punch, Choke.
Lil' Bitch Posted August 21, 2003 Report Posted August 21, 2003 My major problem with Ric Flair is that he is HHH's bitch now. I hate that.
Guest The Real Nosferatu Posted August 22, 2003 Report Posted August 22, 2003 The site of Flair bowing down to HHH makes me vomit in my cereal.
Guest jm29195 Posted August 22, 2003 Report Posted August 22, 2003 We get old WCW Saturday Night over in the UK and if the match is an urban legend- they seem to be building up for it right now and I believe the episodes we are seeing are from February 1991....
Guest ILiveUnderABridge Posted August 22, 2003 Report Posted August 22, 2003 I've always hatted Flair and his same old match with his same old bitch tits. Sting was way better.
Guest The Real Nosferatu Posted August 23, 2003 Report Posted August 23, 2003 Even though I am a Sting mark, without someone on a equal talent level or higher, he wasn't THAT good. Flair carried everyone (Exception: JYD) to really good matches.
Guest The Rising Star Posted August 28, 2003 Report Posted August 28, 2003 My problem with Flair has always been that I can't take him seriously. He never looked like a champion to me, even in his so-called prime. He looked like a guy that I or my friends could take. Did you see Flair in 87-88? He looked buff. He is strong, he endures a beating. Bret Hart is 5-11, HBK too, Austin is 6 feet, I mean these guys aren't that tall, but they're strong. You can't beat any of them.
Guest Trivia247 Posted August 28, 2003 Report Posted August 28, 2003 He wasn't big and mean looking he looked more average yes, but thats the genius behind his character, in his NWA days when he was champion you could see anyone beating him, especially since he sold to anyone like he was a pinball. But somehow he manages to slip out a victory or capitalize on a great error of his opponent.
Guest Super Leather Posted August 29, 2003 Report Posted August 29, 2003 SAMBOS: Not trying to be a dick or anything, but I'll take your statement about not taking Flair seriously with a grain of salt considering that you have a cartoon picture of Kane of all people as your avatar. Then again, my name on here is "Super Leather," aka Leatherface, so whatever. I agree with everyone that's said Flair looked like a consummate champion with the expensive suits and jewelry and whatnot, so I won't add my further two cents on that subject. As far as the loose skin is concerned, I guess I'll have to check out what few Ric Flair matches from the '80s I have on tape to see what I think about that. I do recall him being in decent shape for the Starrcade '83 cage match though. I will give you this, though: circa 1989-1990 was when he really started to let himself go. You also might want to take into consideration that there weren't too many super toned wrestlers around in the early to mid-'80s. The ones that fit the bill tended to be in the WWF anyway. As well, when you're reknown for being the "60-Minute Man" as far as your in-ring performance and stamina is concerned, you're not going to want any extra bulk slowing you down. On a different note, does anyone know the story about Flair working a match with an opponent that had been passed out drunk in the locker room only minutes prior, without anyone catching on? I'd laugh if it was Scott Hall.
Guest Mad the Swine Posted August 29, 2003 Report Posted August 29, 2003 On a different note, does anyone know the story about Flair working a match with an opponent that had been passed out drunk in the locker room only minutes prior, without anyone catching on? I'd laugh if it was Scott Hall. I've heard one story that Scott Hall had to be found before a match in 1997 and was passed out drunk in his car. Not sure if the match was with Flair. There are, though, several accounts of Kerry Von Erich being no condition to wrestle, a few of those stories involving Flair. Part of Flair's problem as far as his build goes back several years. Flair started out at about 280 in the AWA. He was still bulky at the time of the plane crash and lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time. That probably stretched his skin a bit. By 1989, Flair was 40, so that played a part. Also, the pressures of being both champion and booker really got to him and did start aging him a little more quickly. The final straw for his physique started with his first (left) rotator cuff surgery in 1996. He hasn't looked nearly a good since. The second (right) surgery in 2000 killed any chances of his physique really improving.
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