7-, 4-year old illegally sell pop a fair

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

First it was Wal-Mart forbidding girl scouts to sell cookies there, then it was that girl in Florida, now this. Oh the lawlessness that goes on in this country (Oops, hit "enter" by accident to prematurely ejaculate this thread up)...

 

 

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4067833.html

 

Mikaela Ziegler, 7, and her 4-year-old sister, Annika, were selling refreshments Wednesday afternoon near the State Fairgrounds when a woman approached them. But she wasn't there to buy.

 

"She said, 'You can't sell pop unless you have a license,' " Mikaela said.

 

That's how it came to be that an inspector with St. Paul's Office of License, Inspections and Environmental Protection shut down Mikaela and Annika's pop stand.

 

Their outraged father, Dr. Richard Ziegler, called City Hall for an explanation. He was told that St. Paul is cracking down on unauthorized merchants and that his daughters would be free to hawk their beverages once they obtained a $60 license.

 

"Is there anything sacred anymore?" he asked Thursday. "We're not running a business here. This is fun and games for kids. I think [Mikaela's] netted, after paying me, a whole $13.

 

"It's laughable and it's tragic."

 

But Licensing Director Janeen Rosas said Mikaela was violating St. Paul Legislative Code Chapter 331A.04(d)(24), which requires a license for "A temporary establishment where food sales shall be restricted to prepackaged nonpotentially hazardous foods or canned or bottled nonalcoholic beverages; operating no more than fourteen (14) days annually at any one location."

 

Rosas said the city has received more complaints than ever this year about sellers at the fair, although she said no one had registered a gripe about the enterprising Ziegler sisters.

 

"If someone were to get ill from one of these products, with a license we're more able to track them back," she said. "And at the fair it's an equity issue. Allowing some people to sell without licenses gives them an unfair advantage over others."

 

In fact, any lemonade stand in St. Paul must be licensed to operate, Rosas said. Not that the licensing department is out randomly patrolling for juvenile scofflaws.

 

"But if we get a complaint, an inspector would go out and respond to that kind of call," she said.

 

In June, police in Naples, Fla., responded to a neighbor's complaint by closing the lemonade stand of a 6-year-old girl who didn't have a permit. After fielding indignant phone calls from around the country, embarrassed city officials waived the $35 permit fee and allowed her to reopen. The story won national attention.

 

Before she was shut down at her stand on Como Av. a block or two from the fairgrounds, Mikaela had been in business for four days, offering passersby an assortment of packaged lemonade, orange juice, water and pop. What the city did made her sad. And mad.

 

"I don't think that was right," she said, "Cause you should be able to just sell stuff without having something that you don't know you're supposed to be having."

[Youth N Asia 0]

It sucks hard to be a kid in this generation. When I was a kid, being a kid was fun.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Those kids needed to be mobile.

 

My Kool-Aid stand was a little red wagon that shot around the neighborhood so the Man couldn't find me...

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

I think [Mikaela's] netted, after paying me, a whole $13.

He's running a sweatshop environment and stealing all the profits. He should be jailed.

[Guest Fook]

Who would complain about two little girls selling pop enough to get the inspector to shut them down?

[Guest BobbyWhioux]

You see, this is why kids pick up guns and shoot at each other now.

 

We won't let 'em do anything else...

[Guest TheGame2705]

Who would complain about two little girls selling pop enough to get the inspector to shut them down?

That's the first thing I was wondering and I was also wondering how in the fuck they have an unfair advantage. They're two little girls. They don't exactly have superior market savvy.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Maybe they were flashing their, umm, tits to passerbys, enticing them to do business?...

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

^ That's just wrong. I wonder if anyone else had anything better to do than crack down on 2 little girls. I bet somewhere in the city, significant and material crime is being committed. Damn quotas!

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Well, the girls should know better. Everybody knows the only business the cops will let you do out in the open is dealing drugs.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Damn you people calling it "pop." I was thinking they'd sold their father a fair somehow.

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

I'm assuming it was someone affiliated with the fair. If that's the case, they were in the right. Most people would be glad to know that an unliscenced adult vendor had been shut down - particularly re: hygeine concerns. I don't see why it's so wrong to apply the same standard kids because they happen to be younger or whatever. At the risk of sounding overly bitter, kids - with their tenuous grasp of basic hygeine - are the last people I'd want to buy a drink from or have associated with my business/event. Regardless of who put the call in, and heart-rendingly cute lettering on their sign aside, I think I'm going to have to side with the city despite the fact that their actions "made her sad". Yes, I'm aware that they were apparently only selling drinks in their original containers, but god knows what those cans were dropped in on the way to the fair. Not the greatest example, but I'm arguing on principle here anyway.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Probably the only way you COULD argue for the Prosecutors would be on principle.

 

However, it's KIDS for christs sakes~! You cannot tell me you haven't boughten lemonade or pop from a kid just because they were a kid and you thought you'd brighten up their day by making them feel like they were being "grown up".

 

And seriously, how the hell do you know the vendors at the fair are any more hygenic than these kids? Really now, this is stupidity at work here.

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

Probably the only way you COULD argue for the Prosecutors would be on principle.

 

However, it's KIDS for christs sakes~! You cannot tell me you haven't boughten lemonade or pop from a kid just because they were a kid and you thought you'd brighten up their day by making them feel like they were being "grown up".

 

And seriously, how the hell do you know the vendors at the fair are any more hygenic than these kids? Really now, this is stupidity at work here.

The liscence at least gives them some CLAIM to proper hygeine, if you take the leap of faith that there's any enforcement involved. As for your question, no - I'm not buying anything a kid handled if I can avoid it. Both of my parents have taught at elementary schools, I've got a little too graphic a picture of the average child's attitude toward hygeine and sanitation. Those coupon books they sell sometimes, sure, those are full of valuable money-saving alternatives. Some of this might be my paranoia re: food service (I seriously doubt I'd buy any food from a fair vendor, but that's beside the point). This is one of those cases where the rule is (at least ostensibly) there for a reason and needs to be applied across the board.

[Lightning Flik 0]

No I get totally what you meant though.

 

Yet if a little kid is selling something like lemonade or pop, I'll buy it from them to make their day. Regardless of their hygenie because I so doubt anybody's really THAT much better.

 

I certainly ain't.

[Vyce 0]

The bitch who narced on them deserves the old 'sack o' doorknobs' trick.

[Youth N Asia 0]

This next generation is going to be a bunch of assholes...they can't sell pop, play dodgeball in school, or watch Speedy Gonzalas cartoons.

[Lightning Flik 0]

This next generation is going to be a bunch of assholes...they can't sell pop, play dodgeball in school, or watch Speedy Gonzalas cartoons.

WTF? No dodgeball in schools? BULLSHIT~! No way~! I was like great at that game.

 

Why no Speedy Gonzalas cartoons? I don't understand that one.

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

He's a negative Mexican stereotype, apparently. I don't think even kids are stupid enough to base their opinions of other races on their experiences with a cartoon fucking mouse, but I digress. As for no dodgeball, that's just wrong. If you don't teach kids that their aggression can be channelled in some productive (or at least not-actively-harmful) ways you end up with passive-aggressive weirdos at best and repressed potential psychopaths at worst. In the past ten or fifteen years, the entire North American education system has been completely redesigned around two things - fear of liability on the part of the schools and the desire to eliminate conflict of all kinds from all settings (save for standing up to a bully or "drug pusher", with only stern words and self-assurance, of course) . It's sad, really.

[Guest Choken One]

Racist and stereotypes Mexicans I believe was the arguement.

 

 

Dodgeball was banned because all those Ira Frankens of High School after 4 years of Abuse from the Jocks actually got successful and got in office and put an end to that shit...

 

Fuck those little puny "I don't wanna get hit!" bitches...I was the zen master of Dodgeball...

 

I was like Brandon Lee in THE CROW with two red dodgeballs in my hands and I would deflect all the "bullets" (balls) and walk straight at them and taunt them eviliy but they could never get me...

[Guest wrestlingbs]

No dodgeball! Bullsh*t! F*cking bullsh*t! I was terrible at the game, but even I knew it was just a game. If they ban crab dodgeball, there will be hell to pay!

 

And didn't Speedy Gonzalas always dupe the bad guys? What does banning that mean? That Mexicans are sneaky and shouldn't win?

[Guest Choken One]

No dodgeball! Bullsh*t! F*cking bullsh*t! I was terrible at the game, but even I knew it was just a game. If they ban crab dodgeball, there will be hell to pay!

why weren't you good?

 

 

Were you one of those kids that was like a block of wood and couldn't avoid the balls?

 

Were you one of those kids that just went for murder death kill at the expense of your position?

 

Were you one of those kids that hid behind the jocks and stood by the wall and picked up the balls and handed them gingerly to the jocks?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Forget dodgeball -- try "tag."

 

Oh, for the record, when it came to dodgeball, I was one of the people that hid in the back. Because my arm power was bad my role was to wait until we were losing and try to make a half-court shot to bring in everyone on my team back on the court. When we played dodgeball in the gym the basketball hoops were down and if your team made a shot in the other team's hoop, anyone eliminated on your team got back in the game. I made a few shots in my day, and it did WONDERS for my self-esteem...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNew.../tag020624.html

 

June 24 — Depending on your brawn, athleticism or popularity, if you ever went to grade school you remember well your place in the playground game hierarchy.

 

You either desperately dodged the ball or fiercely beaned classmates with it. You were the captain of the team or the last one chosen. Or perhaps out of fear or shyness, you just blended in until the bell saved you.

 

For generations, recess games were considered mere child's play, even if they broke limbs occasionally or, more regularly, hurt feelings. These days, though, some educators have their sights set on some of the more potentially vicious playground activities, prompting a debate about whether banning such games is enlightened or over-protective.

 

In one school in Santa Monica, Calif., the familiar game of tag is "it." The principal of Franklin Elementary School caused a ruckus when she wrote in a recent weekly school newsletter that the chase game was banned during the lunch recess of the grade school, which houses kindergarten through fifth-grade students.

 

Tag and similar games caused concussions, broken bones and numerous bumps and scrapes among the Franklin Elementary students in the past year. But physical danger was not the only harm cited.

 

"In this game, there is a 'victim' or 'It,' which creates a self-esteem issue. The oldest or biggest child usually dominates," the principal wrote.

 

The playground tag prohibition spurred a public debate. The Los Angeles Times picked up the story, as did at least one local talk radio show whose host lambasted the principal for her decision.

 

The Game of Life

 

The Santa Monica tag debate resembles a similar fracas the last few years over dodgeball — also known in some areas as bombardment. Concern over the game's potential for brutality and intimidation led school districts in New York, Virginia, Maryland, Maine, Ohio and Texas to ban dodgeball.

 

What's all the fuss about the games we have all played — and for the most part, survived?

 

To their critics, dodgeball-type games unfairly pit the weak against the strong, inevitably making the scrawnier students easy prey for tougher classmates. In tag, children may be repeatedly chosen as "it" as a form of humiliation. Then there's the social rejection inevitable when children are asked to "pick teams" and the worst athletes or least popular children are left for last.

 

There appears to be no consensus among educators and childhood education experts about the wisdom of banning certain games from the playground, and such prohibitions are certainly not widespread.

 

Some say the fun of playing certain games is not worth the harm done to weaker or less popular children. "There are lots of opportunities for bullying," said Dr. Charles Shubin, a pediatrician and high school physician in Baltimore.

 

Those who oppose banning games say the pecking orders revealed by playground activities can teach important lessons for the future, albeit painful ones.

 

"Kids have to learn how to deal with everyday disappointments such as being singled out," said Dr. Kenneth Haller, a pediatrician and professor at Saint Louis University School of Medicine. "It's a cliché that games are a metaphor for life, but it's true."

 

Everybody Hurts Sometimes

 

Although it may be true that children need preparation for the dog-eat-dog adult world, Shubin says not every child will succeed in a cutthroat environment. Forcing them to compete, and more often than not, lose, will do nothing to help them cope in the future.

 

"Some kids are never going to make it that way, so they are just fodder for the kids who are going to make it that way," Shubin said.

 

Rick Swalm, an education professor at Temple University, believes in a laissez-faire organizing principle to the playground. While a potentially violent game such as dodgeball should not be part of a well-rounded physical education curriculum, he said, it can be a perfectly healthy activity for willing participants at recess.

 

Restricting children from planning their own activities at recess can also be damaging to their feelings of self-worth, he said. While some students may want to play hopscotch, others will still choose tougher games. And the latter will learn important lessons about winning and losing that are not in themselves, harmful, Swalm said.

 

"It's all in a context of 'life doesn't always deal us a royal flush,'" he said.

 

Keeping Fun In Sight

 

Experts said there are ways to continue the tradition of playing games like tag and dodgeball without permanently scarring some children. Adult supervision is key, they say.

 

For one, teachers can select teams, therefore eliminating the scenario of some children always being the last ones picked. In tag, Swalm said, students can be paired off in twos, so they can alternate being "it" and being on the chase. That way, no child would be "it" all the time, and no child would be left out completely.

 

As for dodgeball, some experts said the rough character of the game makes it beyond rehabilitation. But with adequate supervision and an emphasis on fun and not competition, others said, even that occasionally violent playground standby should be allowed.

 

"If one kid is throwing the ball really hard, they need to be told that. Kids need to be told what the rules of game are," Haller said. "They need to be reassured that this is a game, the goal is to have fun."

[Guest Choken One]

Keep the games...get rid of the Student Picking shit...

 

Our Gym Coaches just randomly put us on a team but sometimes and we had a evil on for 8th grade who pitted the Band Playing geeks against us atheletes since he was a life long bully and he got off on that shit.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Keep the student picking system.

 

I was usually picked last at everything. Not because I bad at most of the sports we played -- it was because nobody liked me (big shock, I know).

 

And whatever team I was on usually won because I played better than the people picked in the same round I was, and it did WONDERS for my self-esteem...

[Guest Choken One]

Really...I was useally in the middle for the whole Student Picking deal but what about those were weren't as "lucky"

 

We can't damage the self esteem of these people because quite frankly...they are the ones we will depend on in 20 years to keep the country running

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Actually, the people that get picked last in gym are usually the same people that we end up working for 20 years down the road.

 

I say getting picked last makes them more determined to succeed in the real world, forcing us, the winners of the 2nd period volleyball/street hockey/flag football/etc. championship to grovel before them in hopes of finding a way to pay our bills...

[Guest Choken One]

Yep...Exactly...

 

*Thinks about the kid who was picked last for Gym in High School*

 

Josh Goldberg...

 

Jesus if this kid becomes the next Gates...We're zoomed.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Really, I was ALWAYS picked last for games like Dodgeball, Soccer and Football, because I was short and scranny and was a bit of a loner, but wanna know the scary thing?

 

I was better than most people were. Sure, I got the shit kicked out of me, but unless it was a highly talented jock (or the highly talented jock about to sucker me with a blow) I was better than most. I took pride in that. I may have been picked last but I would outperform nearly everyone there.

 

Yes, these games are violent (and no comments about the Soccer, we literially had brawls back when) and can cause harm, but dammit, what DOESN'T cause harm?

 

If I have kids in the forseeable future, they are going to be fucking bitching their heads off because they can't do anything.

 

I mean, it's a damn joke. I really wouldn't blame my kid for just sitting at home for 5 hours a day playing video games because nowadays, it's the only legal way to have fun.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Oh man, our high school dodgeball episodes were vicious. Simply brutal, barbaric, and absolutely beautiful. That stinging red rubber kickball whizzing through the air...the hollow smack of it hitting some kid in the face..glasses falling on the ground.. I loved it.

 

Sometimes the balls would get a little deflated, and leave these horrible burning welts, it was great.

 

My style was total kamikaze, of course, since I'm large and cumbersome, and not particularly fast, although the poor sucker on the recieving end of that fastball...heh. I'd be the first one eliminated most of the time, but that meant I got to sit through gym without having to do a damn thing, or get all sweaty and shit. I think the only activities where I gave an effort were dodgeball and football. We did wrestling in my earlier years of compulsory education, and I remember having a heated rivalry with this bigger kid who had been held back for a couple years. We ended up pretty even, after everything.